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Bret "Bedbug" Stephens had an article ready at the NYT to complain that firing over racist language is wrong on Monday, but was killed by editorial

WrenchNinja

WrenchNinja

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Oct 25, 2017
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Twitter thread









#Scoop: New York Times columnist Bret Stephens says that publisher A.G. Sulzberger "spiked" his column that was supposed to run on Monday morning in which he took issue with NYT's handling of the Donald J. McNeil case (McNeil was ousted for his use of racial slur).

First, context: The McNeil case has created some chaos inside the Times.

See this via @joepompeo: https://t.co/HNl8cRw7jO

So, what did Stephens take issue with in this unpublished column?….

Stephens took issue with the fact that NYT Exec Editor Dean Baquet said "We do not tolerate racist language regardless of intent."

"Do any of us want to live in a world, or work in a field, where intent is categorically ruled out as a mitigating factor?" BS asks. "I hope not."

Stephens goes on in his column (which never saw light of day) to cite famous Lee Atwater quote that uses racial slur, and which NYT has cited "at least seven times."

"Is this now supposed to be a scandal?" he asks.

In email to colleagues today, Bret Stephens wrote: "I wrote the following column on Monday morning. If you're wondering why it wasn't in the paper, it's because AG Sulzberger spiked it."

NEW: In meeting just now, Baquet said: "In our zeal to make a powerful statement about our workplace culture, we hamhandedly said something that some of you saw as threatening to our journalism.... Of course intent matters when we are talkign about language in journalism."

So it appears that NYT leadership actually agrees with the thrust of Bret Stephens column. Why didn't they run it? Maybe they didn't want him addressing something in print that they were getting ready to walk back.

Waiting on NYT statement.

*one point of clarification: When I say Stephens sent email to colleagues — he didn't send it wide; he sent it to small handful of people. He did not expect it to become public.
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Tamanon

Tamanon

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Oct 25, 2017
19,774
Why would Stephens run it in a column instead of doing what everyone else would do and bring it up in an office discussion. What a douche.
 
Slayven

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
93,611
amazing it's "chaos" when a white man uses a word he knows he shouldn't and faces consequences for it.
 

Deleted member 4461

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...Well, what was the intent? There's a narrow band of what's acceptable. I'm doubting this fell within the band, but now I'm curious.
 
Dyle

Dyle

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Oct 25, 2017
30,118
This is just contrarian bs, it's all Stephens does. They should have fired him years ago, let alone never hired him in the first place.
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

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Dyle said:
This is just contrarian bs, it's all Stephens does. They should have fired him years ago, let alone never hired him in the first place.
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I'll never forget his first column at the times was to do a contrarian take on climate change. Like we really need these "voices"
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
How close is bedbug from asking "why can't I use the n-word?"
 
Primal Sage

Primal Sage

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I don't get it. It sounds as if what the writer did was use a quotation from someone being racist. How he frames using the quotation obviously matters. Right? But all the posts in this thread assume he framed it as if agreeing with it.

Granted, I don't know if he did but where is this assumption that he did coming from?

Right now it would be the same as saying I'm a racist if I wrote "On Friday Trump said that jews can't be trusted because they only care about money. This is obviosly a hateful thing to say". Clearly I am not being racist by writing this. I'm just quoting a racist.

Again, I don't know the context or even content of the quote used in the article and the writer might possibly be a racist (maybe he endorses the quote) but until we know shouldn't we wait to hear what he actually wrote before condemning him for it?
 

Deleted member 18324

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This is just the consequences of NYT's own actions in publishing these "contrarians", who always turn out be reactionary pricks that conveniently never direct their ire at the most powerful in society.
 

Deleted member 13101

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Oct 27, 2017
17,973
If they're monitoring whether litigation may happening, of course they're not going to print anything related to it. He will probably appear on Bill Maher in the near future.
 
Palette Swap

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,279
Primal Sage said:
I don't get it. It sounds as if what the writer did was use a quotation from someone being racist. How he frames using the quotation obviously matters. Right? But all the posts in this thread assume he framed it as if agreeing with it.

Granted, I don't know if he did but where is this assumption that he did coming from?

Right now it would be the same as saying I'm a racist if I wrote "On Friday Trump said that jews can't be trusted because they only care about money. This is obviosly a hateful thing to say". Clearly I am not being racist by writing this. I'm just quoting a racist.

Again, I don't know the context or even content of the quote used in the article and the writer might possibly be a racist (maybe he endorses the quote) but until we know shouldn't we wait to hear what he actually wrote before condemning him for it?
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Because this guy is a racist piece of shit and no one should give his concern trolling any air.

Googling his name + racist would have taken you a lot less time than JAQing in so many words.
 
Kinthey

Kinthey

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Oct 27, 2017
22,488
Vermillion said:
...Well, what was the intent? There's a narrow band of what's acceptable. I'm doubting this fell within the band, but now I'm curious.
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"I should not have done that," McNeil confessed in a Friday email shared with Times staff. "Originally, I thought the context in which I used this ugly word could be defended."

The science reporter further described the "n-word" incident as having occurred during a dinner discussion about the use of racial slurs, in which one student on the trip asked whether a classmate should have been suspended for using racist rhetoric in a video.

"To understand what was in the video, I asked if she had called someone else the slur or whether she was rapping or quoting a book title. In asking the question, I used the slur itself," McNeil wrote.
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www.thedailybeast.com

NY Times Star Reporter Is Gone After Daily Beast Exposé

Multiple students who attended a Times-sponsored trip with Don McNeil in 2019 alleged that he used racist slurs throughout the journey.
www.thedailybeast.com
 

Deleted member 4461

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Kinthey said:
www.thedailybeast.com

NY Times Star Reporter Is Gone After Daily Beast Exposé

Multiple students who attended a Times-sponsored trip with Don McNeil in 2019 alleged that he used racist slurs throughout the journey.
www.thedailybeast.com
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Hrm... that's super on the line lmao

I'm half "I don't think the student said the slur, so I don't know why you felt you needed to"

And half "just don't let it happen again."

But I don't get to judge for all black people. Not my role.
 
Primal Sage

Primal Sage

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Palette Swap said:
Because this guy is a racist piece of shit and no one should give his concern trolling any air.

Googling his name + racist would have taken you a lot less time than JAQing in so many words.
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Jaqing? Now that I DID need to google. Could we keep it civil, please? I had not heard of the man and merely went from the information in the OP. Sorry if that offended you but it really isn't as unreasonable as you make it sound.
 
Weltall Zero

Weltall Zero

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Primal Sage said:
Jaqing? Now that I DID need to google. Could we keep it civil, please? I had not heard of the man and merely went from the information in the OP. Sorry if that offended you but it really isn't as unreasonable as you make it sound.
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You're walking straight into a ban but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to avoid that outcome.

The story as I understand it is about two people; a reporter that was fired from the Times for being a racist and sexist asshole during a student trip (as reported here), and then a second reporter taking issue with Times' statement that "racist language is unacceptable regardless of intent". Without even knowing anything about the second reporter, it's at the very least not a great look to split hairs when the specific context of the statement is pretty clear cut.

JAQing is "just asking questions", something that may be legitimate but is also often a very well known troll tactic (precisely because of its plausible deniability) used to derail conversations about social issues. At the very least one should inform oneself on sensitive issues they're self-admittedly ignorant about, before butting in and expecting others to brief them, especially when said information is but a Google search away.

Edit: Also perhaps shelve the "sorry if I offended you".
 
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Primal Sage

Primal Sage

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Nov 27, 2017
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Weltall Zero said:
You're walking straight into a ban but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to avoid that outcome.

The story as I understand it is about two people; a reporter that was fired from the Times for being a racist and sexist asshole during a student trip (as reported here), and then a second reporter taking issue with Times' statement that "racist language is unacceptable regardless of intent". Without even knowing anything about the second reporter, it's at the very least not a great look to split hairs when the specific context of the statement is pretty clear cut.

JAQing is "just asking questions", something that may be legitimate but is also often a very well known troll tactic (precisely because of its plausible deniability) used to derail conversations about social issues. At the very least one should inform oneself on sensitive issues they're self-admittedly ignorant about, before butting in and expecting others to brief them, especially when said information is but a Google search away.

Edit: Also perhaps shelve the "sorry if I offended you".
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I wasn't trolling. I read the OP wrong. I thought it was about Bret Steven's column not being printed because the editor did not want him using a quote in which the person being quoted was being racist. I was not doing a "just asking questions". I was genuinely curious about what Steven's had actually written as the OP did not contain it. Am I really being a jerk from thinking that's relevant to the thread?

Make no mistake, I am not defending what anyone did, I just wanted to know what they did.
 
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