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Brawlers King

Who is da King ?

  • Konami

    Votes: 6 5.8%

  • Capcom

    Votes: 43 41.7%

  • Sega

    Votes: 54 52.4%
  • Total voters
    103
Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
Sorry about my last poll.
Combining brawlers, action games and hack n' slash was a too divisive Idea. Plus, i thought Sony or Nintendo had a bunch of hidden gems which was not the case this Time.

Today, 3 serious contenders will try to convince you.

Konami

Less famous than Capcom in this category, they nonetheless proposed Amazing games like TMNT, Xmen, the Simpsons, Violent Storm, Metamorphic Force, Asterix, Crime Fighters 2.
How about that ? They could have been the champion in the 90's but unfortunately they Lost The core which became Treasure...
I don't know much about their 3D outputs. Please enlight me, I'll add titles in the OP.

Capcom

The favorite.
Final Fight, Captain Commando, Cadillac and Dino, Dungeon and Dragons, Aliens vs Predators, Knights of the Round, God Hand. So many classics and genre defining titles.
Clover/Platinum was a huge loss during the last gen (but hey, almost all publishers abandoned brawlers) Capcom remains solid with action games nonetheless.

Sega

Another Big fish.
Streets of Rage 2, Golden Axe RODA, Dynamite Deka, Guardian Heroes, Spike Out, Dragon's Crown, Yakuza. Like others, Sega is quite shy with brawlers, they Lost Noriyoshi Oba (SOR1) but kept Makoto Uchida (Golden Axe) who produced Asian Dynamite in the last gen, Nagoshi, i think Atsushi Seimiya (SOR1) and members of the teams Yakuza, VF2, VF3, Spike Out worked with Guardcrush on Streets of Rage 4.
 
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Spring-Loaded

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Even in this low quality gif, you can see how good SPIKEOUT is

EDIT:

k5wQn6.gif
 

Deleted member 16876

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Sega with Capcom right after them.

Sega has Golden Axe Return of Death Adder, Streets of Rage series, Yakuza and many others that are unique like Comix Zone.

Capcom has Final Fight, Battle Circuit, Aliens Vs Predators, God Hand and many others.

The reason I give it to Sega is because they are still making them and were able to go 3D without much issues compared to Capcom.
 
RowdyReverb

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,934
Austin, TX
I'm not really familiar with 3D brawlers, but 2D has to be Capcom, right? Like you said, they have released several classic beat 'em up games. Final Fight is one of my all-time favorite games though, so I am a bit biased
 
Gelf

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,314
I find Sega's best are generally more fun to play without feeling like credit feeding is being forced on me. Streets of Rage series especially benefits greatly by being designed console first. Capcom have some great playing beat em ups though but the arcade roots get on my nerves in later stages of any I can think of.

Meanwhile Konami is dead last because they tended to both be shallow in gameplay and cheap in difficulty.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
Richter1887 said:
The reason I give it to Sega is because they are still making them and were able to go 3D without much issues compared to Capcom.
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I was quite disapointed by Hokuto ga gotoku and then I remembered Last Battle... It was not that bad finally :).

We really need a 3D Streets of Rage ga gotoku or a new Spike Out. I really miss Treasure too.
 
Host Samurai

Host Samurai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,171
Tough one. I think Capcom and Sega have the best ones like Final Fight 1 and Streets of Rage 4, but Konami has more great ones on average. Crime Fighters 2 is very under looked imo.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
On another thread, someone proposed Platinum and Treasure. I wasn't against this ideal but the Only Platinum Brawler was under Capcom (God Hand), the rest is considered as action or Hack n'Slash...
Same for Treasure, they developed Guardian Heroes for Sega and then... Nothing. (Just a port on 360)
 
Host Samurai

Host Samurai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,171
Giant Enemy Crab said:
On another thread, someone proposed Platinum and Treasure. I wasn't against this ideal but the Only Platinum Brawler was under Capcom (God Hand), the rest is considered as action or Hack n'Slash...
Same for Treasure, they developed Guardian Heroes for Sega and then... Nothing. (Just a port on 360)
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I personally wouldn't even consider God Hand a beat em up. I find it's more of a character action game than a belt scrolling beat em up. It has more in common with DMC,NG and Bayonetta than Fighting Force and Die Hard Arcade.
 

Deleted member 16876

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Giant Enemy Crab said:
I was quite disapointed by Hokuto ga gotoku and then I remembered Last Battle... It was not that bad finally :).

We really need a 3D Streets of Rage ga gotoku or a new Spike Out. I really miss Treasure too.
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FOTNS could have been so much better if not for the grind. The buggy and orb systems are the biggest issues I have with it by far.

The combat is really amazing and fun. Definitely one of the best in the series. It is just the above issue that makes the game way worse than it should have been.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
Host Samurai said:
I personally wouldn't even consider God Hand a beat em up. I find it's more of a character action game than a belt scrolling beat em up. It has more in common with DMC,NG and Bayonetta than Fighting Force and Die Hard Arcade.
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Is the core final fight team still at Capcom ? I tried a little search on Moby games but I don't know if they really left the company or if the datas are not updated
 
shadowman16

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,010
A tough fight between Capcom and Sega... depends what I'm in the mood for... Konami's output was great but replaying some of those these days just makes them feel more shallow compared to Capcom's and Sega's output.

Sega definitely takes it for console brawlers though. SoR2 especially at the time was an amazing accomplishment for a console brawler and soundly beats the Final Fight ports of the same time. Its pretty tied when thinking about arcade brawlers though... AvP, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs and The Punisher are incredibly good Capcom brawlers and all have a nice layer of depth to them (Punisher might just edge out AvP for its insane moveslist and because I'm a Marvel fan...) plus stuff like Knights of the Round, D&D, Battle Circuit, Armored Warriors... the list goes on.

Sega though had much better luck taking the genre into 3D - Die Hard Arcade, Spike Out, then Yakuza. Though Capcom does have Godhand... (it also has Final Fight Streetwise, though Sega had that awful Golden Axe reboot)

You really can't go wrong with either to be honest.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
Normal said:
If Yakuza counts then it's easily Sega. On a whole different level.
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10 years ago, I remember the large majority of gamers on the Internet gave a significant victory to Capcom IPs, even if there were some strong TMNT4 or Streets of Rage Communities. Only a few crew cared about Yakuza while most Sega fans were all about Shenmue...(that's another topic, indeed)

Now, it seems Yakuza is a solid brand which jeopardized a bit Shenmue's appeal. (Some of my friends lost interest in Shenmue 3 and now are fan of Yakuza).
I have the feeling in a few years, with the help of Atlus(Dragon's Crown) , Indies (Lizardcube), stuffs like Astro City mini, the Sega Brawlers would possibly beat the Capcom IPs among gamers.
 

Deleted member 41651

User-requested account closure
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Time and time again, I return to Konami.

But then Capcom has AvP, Armored Warriors and Punisher... It's too hard to choose.
 
shadowman16

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,010
Giant Enemy Crab said:
10 years ago, I remember the large majority of gamers on the Internet gave a significant victory to Capcom IPs, even if there were some strong TMNT4 or Streets of Rage Communities. Only a few crew cared about Yakuza while most Sega fans were all about Shenmue...(that's another topic, indeed)

Now, it seems Yakuza is a solid brand which jeopardized a bit Shenmue's appeal. (Some of my friends lost interest in Shenmue 3 and now are fan of Yakuza).
I have the feeling in a few years, with the help of Atlus(Dragon's Crown) , Indies (Lizardcube), stuffs like Astro City mini, the Sega Brawlers would possibly beat the Capcom IPs among gamers.
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Shenmue 3 jepordised the series appeal. Myself and others included, while enjoying parts of Shenmue 3 have real issues with it (mainly the lack of plot, and some other issues that pull you right out of the immersion).
Yakuza finally got more notice with 0 on the PS4 and its been doing better ever since, so the fact that Yakuza gets more notice now is partly just down to how little to nothing it got previously despite always being a fantastic series. Its nice to see its reputation outside of Japan increase so much this gen.
 
Skunk

Skunk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,066
I was going to say Capcom, but yeah, on reflection with the OP it is definitely actually Sega. Konami has some amazing classic games, but even then most of them had less mechanical depth than their competitors.
 

Deleted member 17210

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Genesis Golden Axe 1 is my favourite '80s/'90s beat 'em up but overall Capcom had the most great games in the genre so I voted for them. Konami isn't a consideration. As much I like Violent Storm and NES Rollergames (the latter is more mixed genre anyway), most of their beat 'em up output is just okay.
 
Skunk

Skunk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,066
Giant Enemy Crab said:
Skunk
What did make you change your mind ? The lack of modern brawlers for Capcom ?
The addition of Atlus ?
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When I think "beat em up" my first thought as my favorite in the genre is either River City Ransom or D&D: Shadow over Mystara. But I don't immediately think of the Yakuza series when I absolutely should.

So it's combination of my adoration for the entire Yakuza series as well as Shenmue and Sega's traditional classics like Streets of Rage and Dynamite Deka. That's all just too strong and more importantly varied a list.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
Skunk said:
When I think "beat em up" my first thought as my favorite in the genre is either River City Ransom or D&D: Shadow over Mystara. But I don't immediately think of the Yakuza series when I absolutely should.

So it's combination of my adoration for the entire Yakuza series as well as Shenmue and Sega's traditional classics like Streets of Rage and Dynamite Deka. That's all just too strong and more importantly varied a list.
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As expected, Yakuza or 3D brawlers like Dynamite Deka (a port of the Trilogy would be Nice) are the reason of your change...

My main complain was the lack of variety of Yakuza studio since the fall of Binary Domain but it's evolving: They helped for Streets of Rage 4, Sakura Wars, a new Monkey Ball is coming and it's probably them at Sega who co-develop Re Fantasy.
(Or Maybe it's the Valkyria team)



Shadow over Mystaria ? So good... ;)
 

skaertus

Member
Aug 16, 2020
57
It is hard to choose between Capcom and Konami.

Capcom had great games such as Final Fight, Captain Commando, King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, Punisher, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, and the Dungeons & Dragons games, just to name a few. In terms of quantity and consistency, perhaps Capcom would be the king. Capcom Play System I and II were some amazing Arcade systems which accommodated a great selection of games.

But then Konami had the Turtles games, which are my all-time favorites. The original TMTN was jaw-dropping and a sweet part of my childhood. Turtles in Time improved on that and can hardly be beaten. The Simpsons is also funny and great. And then there is X-Men, Asterix and Metamorphic Force.

Sega is not even a contender here. Streets of Rage is fine, but, as good as it is, sounds like a well-made Final Fight wannabe. And, as it was made for the Sega Genesis, it did not have the same horsepower available as Capcom and Konami contenders. Golden Axe was a great and impressive game back in the day, but did not age well.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
skaertus said:
It is hard to choose between Capcom and Konami.

Capcom had great games such as Final Fight, Captain Commando, King of Dragons, Knights of the Round, Punisher, Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, and the Dungeons & Dragons games, just to name a few. In terms of quantity and consistency, perhaps Capcom would be the king. Capcom Play System I and II were some amazing Arcade systems which accommodated a great selection of games.

But then Konami had the Turtles games, which are my all-time favorites. The original TMTN was jaw-dropping and a sweet part of my childhood. Turtles in Time improved on that and can hardly be beaten. The Simpsons is also funny and great. And then there is X-Men, Asterix and Metamorphic Force.

Sega is not even a contender here. Streets of Rage is fine, but, as good as it is, sounds like a well-made Final Fight wannabe. And, as it was made for the Sega Genesis, it did not have the same horsepower available as Capcom and Konami contenders. Golden Axe was a great and impressive game back in the day, but did not age well.
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Capcom, Konami all have amazing outputs but you're wrong saying Sega isn't even a contender.

Streets of Rage isn't just a well made Final Fight wannabe, it simply has deeper gameplay.(even if some characters could be slow, the game also offers more feeling variety with tiny fast heroes like Skate which allows fun combinations with Max)
www.resetera.com

Streets of Rage Series or Final Fight Series?

I've been playing the Capcom's Beat Em Collection of late and just finished Final Fight. What a great game. I sucked as kid playing that game in the arcades and never played any the home ports to completion. This was the first time I completed it. Credit spamming of course! While it has a...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
Golden Axe didn't age that well, it's true but Revenge of Death Adder gives more variety than Knights of the Round (more characters, 4 players combined attack, bigger sprites, completely different hits feed-back, alternate paths).
Guardian Heroes also shows very deep gameplay.

Sega also has a load of 3D brawlers like Dynamite Deka, Spike out or Yakuza. Can you say the same for Konami ?
 
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Skunk

Skunk

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,066
Giant Enemy Crab said:
As expected, Yakuza or 3D brawlers like Dynamite Deka (a port of the Trilogy would be Nice) are the reason of your change...

My main complain was the lack of variety of Yakuza studio since the fall of Binary Domain but it's evolving: They helped for Streets of Rage 4, Sakura Wars, a new Monkey Ball is coming and it's probably them at Sega who co-develop Re Fantasy.
(Or Maybe it's the Valkyria team)

Shadow over Mystaria ? So good... ;)
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In fairness, no, not the primary reason but a big factor. As I said, it's more the variety of Sega's games. Most of the Capcom beat em ups are a bit samey, most at least somewhat based on Final Fight; even though some later ones like the D&D games did start to build more on that framework. Konami's were mostly really pretty looking and fun, but as I mentioned, mechanically shallow.

On reflection, there's actually probably a pretty strong argument to put Technos as a runner up as well.
 

skaertus

Member
Aug 16, 2020
57
Giant Enemy Crab said:
Capcom, Konami all have amazing outputs but you're wrong saying Sega isn't even a contender.

Streets of Rage isn't just a well made Final Fight wannabe, it simply has deeper gameplay.(even if some characters could be slow, the game also offers more feeling variety with tiny fast heroes like Skate which allows fun combinations with Max)
www.resetera.com

Streets of Rage Series or Final Fight Series?

I've been playing the Capcom's Beat Em Collection of late and just finished Final Fight. What a great game. I sucked as kid playing that game in the arcades and never played any the home ports to completion. This was the first time I completed it. Credit spamming of course! While it has a...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
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I don't think Streets of Rage 1 was a great game. Honestly, the first one seems to me a Final Fight wannabe with some additional elements, made by Sega to counter the SNES launch. It seems like an average beat-em-ups to me, but perhaps I didn't play it enough back in the day.

Streets of Rage 2 is a very good game and better than most brawlers at the time. Still, I don't think the variety and complexity makes up for the slow gameplay. It's a matter of personal preference, but I still prefer the fast and simplistic Capcom and Konami beat-em-ups.

GoldenAxe didn't age that well, it's true but Revenge of Death Adder gives more variety than Knights of the Round (more characters, 4 players combined attack, bigger sprites, completely different hits feed-back, alternate paths).
Guardian Heroes also shows very deep gameplay.

Sega also has a load of 3D brawlers like Dynamite Deka, Spike out or Yakuza. Can you say the same for Konami ?
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Well, it may be. I stopped in the 1990s. I never really played a 3D brawler. As I mention in another topic, 3D games were never my thing. But I should give them a try.

As far as 2D games go, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe and Comix Zone may be fine games, but they are still a small number and cannot compete with the many brawlers Capcom and Konami delivered in late 1980 to mid 1990s.
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

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Apr 21, 2018
3,192
skaertus said:
I don't think Streets of Rage 1 was a great game. Honestly, the first one seems to me a Final Fight wannabe with some additional elements, made by Sega to counter the SNES launch. It seems like an average beat-em-ups to me, but perhaps I didn't play it enough back in the day.

Streets of Rage 2 is a very good game and better than most brawlers at the time. Still, I don't think the variety and complexity makes up for the slow gameplay. It's a matter of personal preference, but I still prefer the fast and simplistic Capcom and Konami beat-em-ups.



Well, it may be. I stopped in the 1990s. I never really played a 3D brawler. As I mention in another topic, 3D games were never my thing. But I should give them a try.

As far as 2D games go, Streets of Rage, Golden Axe and Comix Zone may be fine games, but they are still a small number and cannot compete with the many brawlers Capcom and Konami delivered in late 1980 to mid 1990s.
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I understand now your point of view, even if removing 3D brawlers from the king of 3D Arcade games seems a little weird. But Ok ;)
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
Don't forget you Can play AVP on the Capcom mini, Revenge of Death Adder on the Astro City Mini or the 1up Arcade cabinet.




Hope Konami will release at least one brawler under licence (Capcom did it with AVP)
 
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Giant Enemy Crab

Giant Enemy Crab

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,192
McBradders said:
With Streets of Rage 2 on the board, the only answer is Sega.
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SOR1 has small sprites, weaker gameplay, SOR2 no run, strange chara design (Max) and SOR3 has weird sound effects, music, a ridiculous Doctor Zan.

So the winner is... Revenge of Death Adder: Big sprites, Nice music, run, alternate paths, fine chara design, excellent pixel art, impressive magic, 4 players mode and no real flaw.

And where is my Sonic ASRT Deluxe edition ?!? Sonic ASRT 2 ? You cannot leave us with a decent TSR like this... ;)
 
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Deleted member 1627

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Giant Enemy Crab said:
SOR1 has small sprites, weaker gameplay, SOR2 no run, strange chara design (Max) and SOR3 has weird sound effects, music, a ridiculous Doctor Zan.

So the winner is... Revenge of Death Adder: Big sprites, Nice music, run, alternate paths, fine chara design, excellent pixel art, impressive magic, 4 players mode et no real flaw.
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I love the hard swerve here. Bravo.

shialeboufclapping.gif
 
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