Bebpo I don't know if you realize, but a majority of your cricisms can basically be summed up as pacing issues, even the ones you didn't put in that category. And I agree, all three Stormlight books have some pretty significant issues with pacing. It's worst in Way of Kings, and probably best in Words of Radience, but it's a problematic area for all three.
It does serve a purpose—the world of Roshar is complicated, and needs time to get fleshed out. There's a reason pacing issues are such a common complaint throughout large epic fantasy series's (see also: Wheel of Time, Book of the Fallen, etc etc).
Actually, now that I think about it... are there any fantasy series of this length that where pacing problems are not a common complaint? Lord of the Rings comes to mind, but that's not really long enough for the class of novel I'm talking about here.
Assuming the answer is "no", a logical conclusion would be that fantasy books are just too long, but I don't think that's right either. Again, properly fleshing out a complicated fantasy world just takes a damn long time.
Out of curiosity what other large epic fantasy series would you recommend after catching up with Cosmere? I've never read LoTR, if I've seen the movies and not really into generic orcs & elves & dwarves type fantasy, is it still worth reading? What about Wheel of Time?
I am currently reading WoT and agree with you about EOTW compared to books 2-3.So, lots of people really, really like The Wheel of Time. I am not one of them.
Wheel of Time is a series of 14 long books. The original author, Robert Jordan, was only able to write 11 books before his death, so Sanderson (a huge fan of the series) wrote the final three.
The first book, The Eye of the World, is incredible—fast paced, compelling characters, and incredible world building. In an odd way, it reminds me of the wide-eyed wonder of Ocarina of Time. I'm actually of the opinion that Eye of the World can be read as a standalone novel, and I fully encourage you to do that. The final paragraph of the book will leave you wanting more, but it does also provide a sort of closure. Everything that happens next is predictable.
Books 2–4 are okay. They should have been a lot shorter, and had less stupid gender politics, but they're fine. And then 5–11 are all down hill, with less and less actually happening each book. 11 is kind of better than 10, but only because 10 was awful.
As I said, the final three books are amazing. The final third of the last book is one incredible non-stop action scene that just goes on and on and on without letting up for a moment. I just don't think the journey is worth the destination.
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Out of all the books I've read, the one I think feels most like a Sanderson work is actually Garth Nix's The Old Kingdom trilogy, which consists of Sabriel, Lirael, and Abhorsen. I'm actually convinced that Elantris's magic system was pulled directly from The Old Kingdom, (possibly unconsciously), and I think The Old Kingdom did it better. I'm not sure they're long enough to classify as "Epic Fantasy", but they are good. (Note, the author has written some newer books in the world, and they aren't very good, except for the short stories which are great.)
Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy is significantly less Sanderson-like in terms of writing style and overall values, but the world feels like something Sanderson could have constructed, and that series is very special to me.
And then at the bottom of the list I'll throw in The Licanius Trilogy, which felt like something of a cross between The Wheel of Time (the good parts) and a Sanderson novel. The only problem is it felt like an author's first work—which it was—in that the writing and characters felt a bit sloppy at times. But the plot was very enjoyable.
I also liked Brian Stavely's works, The Powder Mage books, and Michael J Sullivan's book series.
Other stuff that manages that... Lessee, Codex Alera, Dagger & Coin (sorta), Shadow Campaigns (really it's hard to go wrong with Django Wexler), but Sanderson again is just on this whole other level with regards to worldbuilding.
TBH I'd rate Butcher over him, and probably at least a few other authors. Sanderson sets up his fights very well but they don't quite have that same... heart-pounding, have to get up and pace around the room from sheer exhilaration factor, for me at least.Who do you think is better than Sanderson at writing action scenes?
I actually think those might be what he's best at. The aerial fights in Mistborn, for instance, are anything else I've ever read.
Haven't read the other two, but I was really enjoying the first Codex Alera book up until this one point where two women get captured and brutally tortured. I couldn't get through it and had to put the book down. It was such an out-of-left field tonal shift, too.
Wonder if he is going to release the first part online like he did with Oathbringer.
I agree. It hooked me from page one. Didn't mind the pacing at all, honestly.Pretty close to 40% of the way through Way of Kings right now. This is almost to the end of Part 2 by the way. Maybe 1.5 chapters left before the interludes.
I hear the pacing complaints and to an extent I get it but it hasn't really bothered me too much. I knew going in what it was going to be like so I just kept at it. I often times don't mind that the pacing of a book is slower or that an author I enjoy is being a little indulgent with getting to the point with certain things. I'm enjoying it quite a bit so far.
Makes that leatherbound mighty tempting. Definitely will be able to finish this before the Kickstarter ends.
Nice! Might I suggest Arcanum Unbounded? You don't have to read the whole thing all at once, but I notice you read the Mistborn original trilogy and Elantris so Mistborn Secret History is now a must-read. The other short stories are great too. Just wait on Edgedancer till after Words of Radiance.Okay I lied I finished it Saturday in a marathon reading session. Final 300 pages read in one day!
There were a few points where I was almost moved to tears.
Can only think of a few other books that have had that impact on me.
It was just incredible. I know I need a break to read other, shorter things but dang does part of me want to go right into Words of Radiance. But I have so so so much to read it is almost irresponsible to dedicate another 35+ hours to reading one book.
Seriously considering the kickstarter too.
I just started reading the first Mistborn book, but I have all of the Cosmere books already as well. From what I've seen it doesn't matter what order you read these in, but will I lose anything by not reading Elantris first?
The only thing I'd say is read war breaker before Stormlight Archive, other than that the order doesn't matter.I just started reading the first Mistborn book, but I have all of the Cosmere books already as well. From what I've seen it doesn't matter what order you read these in, but will I lose anything by not reading Elantris first?
As mentioned above, by and large the connections between the books amount to easter eggs. Stormlight is probably the biggest culprit of involving things from other series, but even those are ancillary at best. Some of the references are vague enough that you might not even catch them even if you read the associated books (guilty!)I just started reading the first Mistborn book, but I have all of the Cosmere books already as well. From what I've seen it doesn't matter what order you read these in, but will I lose anything by not reading Elantris first?
You're in for a treat.Thanks guys! I think I'll read the Mistborn Era 1 trilogy, then go into Elantris, then Warbreaker. After that I'll have to decide between starting Era 2 or going in The Way of Kings.
I just started reading the first Mistborn book, but I have all of the Cosmere books already as well. From what I've seen it doesn't matter what order you read these in, but will I lose anything by not reading Elantris first?
I know you've had some responses and they aren't WRONG but I always like to put the position out there that I feel it's best to generally not read things too out of order from how they were published. Ultimately, no, it doesn't matter, but I really do think that's the best way to get the most out of the connective tissue that exists between stories. there's less connective tissue between earlier books, but it has been ramping up for a while.
...I actually think I wholly disagree. Outside of the few exceptions mentioned above, that connective tissue works equally well in either direction, so you may as well go with what piques your interest. (And even those exceptions don't matter that much, it's just a bit non-optimal in the other direction.)
I'll go even further and say, part of what I find intriguing about the Cosmere is it's an interesting experiment in non-linear storytelling.
Edit: Someone with graphic design skills should make a metroidvania-esque map of possible reading orders. Elantris and The Final Empire are both starting points, but Warbreaker needs to come before Words of Radience, etc. 😀
You WHOLLY disagree? Part of that statement was acknowledging it ultimately doesn't matter and that the people who already said it doesn't matter aren't wrong... that position is already represented, well established, and accepted in the post you responded to.
I fall into that camp personally. For me it's just about having a clearer picture of the events of Era 1 which may help you enjoy and appreciate the details in MSH more. MSH is one of my favourite cosmere books, and I think that's partially due to the fact I read it immediately after Hero of Ages.There is one exception: I wouldn't read Secret History until after Bands of Mourning. People will say it's ok after finishing the first Mistborn Trilogy (aka Era 1) but I think you are doing yourself a disservice if you read it that early; it was published at the same time as Bands, and readers were told to read Bands first. Later when it was collected into Arcanum Unbounded, even that book Indicated major spoilers for Era 1 and minor spoilers for Bands, but to me it's more than minor and I stick by the original recommendation to read it after Bands.
So, in the hype for the new stuff, I'm reminded of one of my least favorite pieces of the Cosmere. The supplementary material. I was looking at Tor's analysis of the sample chapters, and the writers mention a Word of Brandon.
I think it's super cool that all Brandon answers questions at his signings. But these WoB's seem to confirm certain theories that seep into the community and become kind of taken as fact. And it's hard to keep up with everything that's going on. Maybe that's a fault of my inattentiveness as a reader, but I'm not looking up transcripts of questions from events. So say I look up a character because I was trying to remind myself of something, the Wiki references some obscure WoB that changes something.
Maybe I'm making too much of this, but there's only so much I can retain from a huge 800 page book! I try to grab the details but it's hard, and then there's the WoB layer and it just gets annoying.
Maybe I'm making too much of this, but there's only so much I can retain from a huge 800 page book! I try to grab the details but it's hard, and then there's the WoB layer and it just gets annoying.
Same here, started again a few days ago and already halfway through.I have to say I am enjoying my second time through Way of Kings even more than the first.
it is hard to put down
probably better to spoiler this, many people will want to be going in completely blind when the book is releasedI've only read the released Prologue so far of Rythm of War and I just absolutely love the continued shift in perspective about a single night and especially a specific character.
probably better to spoiler this, many people will want to be going in completely blind when the book is released
no it's not, just trying to be considerate. I know some people are very fussy about such things, especially pre-releaseIs the prologue really that spoilery? It's always the same night and a different perspective?
no it's not, just trying to be considerate. I know some people are very fussy about such things, especially pre-release
it doesn't bother me personally, is what I'm saying :P
I finished The Final Empire, what a fantastic book. I can't wait to read more, and I've put together a list of the order I'm going to read the Cosmere. This is just how I'm going to read them personally and I don't think I'll miss anything this way. The AU I'm putting next to some titles are the stories in Arcanum Unbounded as that is how I will read them
Mistborn: The Final Empire
The Well of Ascension
The Hero of Ages
The Eleventh Metal (AU)
Elantris
The Hope of Elantris (AU)
The Emperor's Soul (AU)
The Alloy of Law
Allomancer Jak and Pits of Eltania (AU)
Shadows of Self
The Bands of Mourning
Mistborn: Secret History (AU)
Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell (AU)
The Way of Kings
Warbreaker
Words of Radiance
Edgedancer (AU)
Oathbringer
Sixth of the Dusk (AU)
Rhythm of War
Rhythm of War will definitely be released by the time I get there which is why I put it on the list already. Let me know if I should change some AU stories (mostly Shadows for Silence and Sixth of the Dusk, I'm not sure if I need any info from those before or after anything I put there). I figured I'd sprinkle some of the stories In between the big books and I'll save Warbreaker for later in between the Stormlights as well.
Out of curiosity what other large epic fantasy series would you recommend after catching up with Cosmere? I've never read LoTR, if I've seen the movies and not really into generic orcs & elves & dwarves type fantasy, is it still worth reading? What about Wheel of Time?
LoTR is kind of slow. And so is WoT honestly, however what they both have in common is great worldbuilding so if you enjoy that I would say give them a go.
WoT. Oh boy. So I have a love/hate relationship with it right now, I'm on book 6. The worldbuilding is outstanding, it is dense and interesting. The central plot is good and the novels end in a similar way to Sanderson's in that everything interesting comes together into a satisfying conclusion that makes you want to read more.
I found the first book the worst. It is meandering and bland generally, but it provides important building blocks. 2 and 3 aren't much better tbh outside of Rand and Perrin. It wasn't until book 4/5 that I thought the characters actually started to be great (well the guys and Egwene lmao. To be fair, they are basically kids and still had growing up to do). I think Jordan just hates women because they are all arrogant, stubborn, and annoying, and especially when talking to the men. It makes me want to tug my braid (if I had one). Also he repeats certain actions repeatedly like he is getting paid by the word, which also makes me want to tug my braid (if you get my meaning). Like seriously, there are certain characters (and factions) that need to grow the fuck up. The Aes Sedai are perhaps the most aggravatingly arrogant and dumb people I've ever had to read, and guess what? They're all women, hmmm tell us how you really feel Jordan. Omfg his writing of women is terrible.
But there are interesting developments interspersed within that have me curious in how they will be used going forward. Jordan has been very good at foreshadowing events, but also using everything he has shown in cool ways. I'm curious how some things will come to be an advantage to the heroes and how they will develop their unique and individual skills (and some have been paying off which is cool).
The books are slow, especially the first few. There is so much meandering. So much like why don't we stop in every village? Yea sounds like a great idea for nothing to happen.