Brad Sams: The Next Gen Xbox Strategy...Zen 2, Streaming, and IP

[TheTruthofKayle]

Are you acting like XB1 in its original form didn't consistently struggle to hit an industry standard 1080p, and wasn't priced $100 more than the PS4?

I think that was one of the biggest sticking points and what made appearances worse for Xbox.

The only way that power becomes a problem next-gen for Sony or Microsoft is if either of the two are aiming for a 4k/60fps baseline and it then becomes a problem for developers looking to achieve that on hardware that was built in a way that means it cannot effectively do that. Can you see either of these things being a problem for either Sony or Microsoft next-gen, and even if MS has better hardware it's only going to be a problem for those who feel the need to follow up with some kind of senseless retribution act for how XB1 was judged this generation for how it was severely underpowered for a generation. Which would be off base and completely ridiculous. PS5 won't be underpowered because of a multimedia "broad entertainment" focus, like the XB1 was. Both will be focused machines.

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The OG Xbox One came from a x360 "winning" generation (in terms of exposure to the media) and therefore was not seen as a console to stay away from...or anyway linked to some negative prejudice
Surely the price ... the always online, and the DRM fiasco have been a fundamental part of its horrible launch but to exclude the power gap as a relevant factor means to want to blindfold and not want to see the reality. I could put my hand on the fire that we will see the same speeches at the launch of the new consoles. People want to be sure they have bought the best they could with their money (always staying in an acceptable price target)
The OG One Xbox had only around 500 gflops of difference from its Sony counterpart..and it was enough to being annihilated by all the outlets on the internet ... even Edge came out with a cover that clearly said to buy the PS4 ....
"Resolutiongate" broke out on the forums and Digital Foundry was launching gasoline on the fire (rightly) showing differences of 900p vs 1080p in multiplatform titles ... so as to almost make the world of gamers cry out to the scandal.
With the usual eco chamber before the launch of the new consoles we will know who will be the most "powerful" and people begin to talk about it .... the outlets to write ... and digital foundry like all the others to say why one is better of the other ..: To the average user will arrive so the news that the prox COD will turn better on the console Y or Z and depends on the price make its choice (obviously linked to other things ... services ... digital library etc. etc. )

 

[JaggedSac]

I never believed that EA rumor. If they were acquired, you have all the sports licenses (which are contractually multiplatform) and the slate of Star Wars games (again, contractually multiplatform) which leaves you with...battlefield and anthem being exclusive? And mass effect? Seems like a lot of effort to pin down franchises that are either declining or unproven.

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Gamepass will be multiplatform(as multiplatform as other platform holders allow). Would be interesting if MS could make a statement along the lines of "We tried to put those games on Sony and Nintendo platforms, but they refused our service." And thus that contractual obligation would be at least attempted.

 

[Jeffram]

Microsoft just teased an announcement for the Game Awards....EA aquisition??

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There is absolutely no way either company could keep that under wraps.

 

[Derrick01]

Please stay away from Discord. It's something that works well and people like using it so naturally MS wants to come in and Skype it to hell and back.

 

[JaggedSac]

Please stay away from Discord. It's something that works well and people like using it so naturally MS wants to come in and Skype it to hell and back.

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Skype's infrastructure was garbage before MS stepped in.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

Gamepass will never be on playstation, it is a competitor to psnow.

 

[funky]

Hasnt the Xbox and PC store "unified" 3 different times now?

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

As long as the specs and price are comparable (which they will be considering they are using the hardware supplier and likely releasing very close together) it won't matter. Any one completely obsessed with power will build a PC if they can afford it. I would wager most of the people buying an X are the same people that were just "fine" with 900p until it came along.

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Excuse me but from experience I tell you that people (especially parents) buy (most of the time) as perfect uninformed listening to what has been told by their childrens..and they are not there to make mental gym between choosing to build a PC or buy a console to let them play games
Another point is: where it is written that those who want to play with a CONSOLE should buy the most convenient or switch to the PC?
I personally bought the ps4 at day one because it was more powerful than the OG Xbox .... then I said no to the PRO and I bought the X for the same reason.
I'm writing this message from a pc assembled by me would certainly cost more than the sum of ps4 / pro / xbs / xbx / switch
The scenario where people say "ah you know .. the consoles are almost the same, one has uncharted and the other halo" is a scenario that will never happen ..... there will always be a console seen as "the best" and nowdays is probably the one who play third parties multiplat games better..and this is and will be in future (unless a very complicated architecture that drive Devs crazy) very likely also the most powerful console

 

[Derrick01]

Skype's infrastructure was garbage before MS stepped in.

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Jesus how bad was it? Because skype after MS is a dumpster fire. I remember a raid group I tried joining wanted to use it and after so many headaches on both my end and a number of other people's ends I was like "can we just go back to ventrillo?"

 

[Lagspike_exe]

I never believed that EA rumor. If they were acquired, you have all the sports licenses (which are contractually multiplatform) and the slate of Star Wars games (again, contractually multiplatform) which leaves you with...battlefield and anthem being exclusive? And mass effect? Seems like a lot of effort to pin down franchises that are either declining or unproven.

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The EA acquisition makes 0 business sense. Key value drivers for EA are the sports franchises, Star Wars and Battlefield and their financial performance is only possible by targeting as wide of a demographic as possible. Buying EA would mean paying a substantial premium on the open market, while the synergistic value is much less than even the current market value.
MS acquisitions should be focused on individual teams that have a proven track record that may create "unique" experiences to help differentiate the platform. Basically, MS is using Sony's strategy from 2007.

 

[JaggedSac]

Jesus how bad was it? Because skype after MS is a dumpster fire. I remember a raid group I tried joining wanted to use it and after so many headaches on both my end and a number of other people's ends I was like "can we just go back to ventrillo?"

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I read a detailed blog post about it a while ago. But essentially it uses p2p supernodes or something that couldn't scale well with Skype's growth.

 

[Splader]

Oh please you don't buy success with Money. Success is earned through hardwork, listening to fan feedback and providing an immersive experience gamers ask. Sony did that right from the start of this gen while MS didn't. Sony has been successful thanks to their core pillars - Great First Party Content + Surprise Third Party exclusives + Balanced Hardware + Affordable Price.

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Sony sure has some great first party content now and in the last couple of years, but are we really pretending they had that at the start of this generation?

Also MS has clearly already taken the steps to build a strong first party lineup. They've also been pretty damn receptive on fan feedback for almost this entire generation.

 

[Gundam]

Yeah I remember hearing about Discord a while ago. Around when they did the Beam thing. Surprised it hasn't happened.

 

[Evangelista]

Doesn't take EA. Take Dice and Bioware and recover these 2 gems.

 

[Super Havoc]

Here we go again! :D

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Would you rather be under EA 's management or Phil and the MS team? ; )

 

[Shambala]

These types of threads sure makes certain fanboys/girls cum in their pants lol. Just by reading some of these replies lol.

 

[Pryme]

Nobody is living in the past, you just don't understand the context. Maybe read what the poster that I quoted has said and I mean the entire conversation, not just the message that you quoted. It's complete nonsense that MS doesn't care about console sales, especially after we seem to have credible rumours about them releasing a console that will only serve as a streaming device.

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Not a single person here has said MS doesn't care about selling consoles.

 

[AmFreak]

I'm not sure if you all are purposely being obtuse, but the person I quoted was speaking in reference to MS within the gaming industry, so clearly my response was in reference to that and not speaking to MS's entire valuation. Money does not guarantee their success in the gaming landscape regardless of what you all may say, it may help but will not ensure that they'll be "first". Their money hasn't really done much to catapult them to breakaway success compared to their competitors. The original poster inferred that MS had halfheartedly been competing since their entrance to the market and were they to make a legitimate push, they'd handedly win- to which I disagreed and is why I posted what I did.

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You can't split their gaming division from the rest of the company.
Their absurd amount of money thanks to their multiple monopolies is the whole reason they are still in the market.
Every other company who ever made a console would either have died (multiple times) or would have left after the first XBox including Sony.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

Excuse me but from experience I tell you that people (especially parents) buy (most of the time) as perfect uninformed listening to what has been told by their childrens..and they are not there to make mental gym between choosing to build a PC or buy a console to let them play games
Another point is: where it is written that those who want to play with a CONSOLE should buy the most convenient or switch to the PC?
I personally bought the ps4 at day one because it was more powerful than the OG Xbox .... then I said no to the PRO and I bought the X for the same reason.
I'm writing this message from a pc assembled by me would certainly cost more than the sum of ps4 / pro / xbs / xbx / switch
The scenario whefre people say "ah you know .. the consoles are almost the same, one has uncharted and the other halo" is a scenario that will never happen ..... there will always be a console seen as "the best" and nowdays is probably the one who play third parties multiplat games better..and this is and will be in future (unless a very complicated architecture that drive Devs crazy) very likely also the most powerful console

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This has been proven wrong and you are just guessing/hoping that if will be different next gen. Your experience is irrelevant unless you work in position that gives some expertise to guarantee such an outcome. And even then the experts are often wrong. Minor differences in specs are not going to decide the market leader. That would not even be in the top 3 factors. Period

 

[Senor Spielbergo]

These types of threads sure makes certain fanboys/girls cum in their pants lol. Just by reading some of these replies lol.

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YIKES

 

[Trago]

Zen 2 would be a serious upgrade.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

This has been proven wrong and you are just guessing/hoping that if will be different next gen. Your experience is irrelevant unless you work in position that gives some expertise to guarantee such an outcome. And even then the experts are often wrong.

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Has been proven wrong what? Has never been proven wrong ..the 360 was the console where multiplat games was running better and it was what it was ...PS4 the same . Yes I work in that position.
Btw if you talking about PS2 era and before...multiplats games wasn't the sales kings....nowdays are what move the market most

 

[nekkid]

Buying Discord would be good if they could use the new store for PC game deployment.

 

[fuzzyset]

Jesus how bad was it? Because skype after MS is a dumpster fire. I remember a raid group I tried joining wanted to use it and after so many headaches on both my end and a number of other people's ends I was like "can we just go back to ventrillo?"

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Skype was peer-to-peer originally, so depending on your group, it could be bad.

 

[TheRaidenPT]

Buying Discord would be good if they could use the new store for PC game deployment.

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Or even as a improvement to Party Chat, they could incorporate with Discord.

Imagine PC and Xbox gamers together on the same system

 

[Imitation Of Life]

Has been proven wrong what? Has never been proven wrong ..the 360 was the console where multiplat games was running better and it was what it was ...PS4 the same . Yes I work in that position.
B5w if you talking about PS2 era and before...multiplats games wasn't the sales kings....how days are what move the marker

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PS3 outsold Xbox 360 almost every year last gen despite being a tech mess and costing more. This gen roles reversed and total domination by PS4 over Xbox One. Seems one brand is just more popular worldwide with nothing to indicate that will change.

 

[fuzzyset]

Regarding the last bullet, I still fully expect Xbox to become completely unified with the PC space. The Xbox OS will be a container/VM you can run on your PC and play Xbox games. The Xbox HW will simply only run that container/VM to save CPU cycles/costs. MS has been investing heavily in virtualization technology (basically all their Azure stuff and 360BC). For the cloud tech, just spin up the containers/VMs as needed like any other cloud app.

 

[koutoru]

If you've been paying attention more developers have focused on framerate this generation than last, with many franchises switching to 60fps. That trend will continue into the next generation.

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I agree that more developers have focused on obtaining a stable framerate and franchises that put a priority on achieving 60 fps can more easily attain that.

However, I disagree that we'll see any sort of mass conversion of games or franchisees that were historically 30 fps to 60 fps on console. The amount of headroom you would need to achieve that could easily be put to other things the developers might have a priority over.

 

[Iceman83]

Can't see EA agreeing to an acquisition.

 

[cb1115]

that should be a pretty massive CPU jump, right?

 

[fuzzyset]

I agree that more developers have focused on obtaining a stable framerate and franchises that put a priority on achieving 60 fps can more easily attain that.

However, I disagree that we'll see any sort of mass conversion of games or franchisees that were historically 30 fps to 60 fps on console. The amount of headroom you would need to achieve that could easily be put to other things the developers might have a priority over.

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I'm excited for the meltdowns when the cloud versions of XB2 games run at 60 but the local HW only runs 30.

 

[Deleted member 4761]

Great news.
Hope they acquire Discord.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

PS3 outsold Xbox 360 almost every year last gen despite being a tech mess and costing more. This gen roles reversed and total domination by PS4 over Xbox One. Seems one brand is just more popular worldwide with nothing to indicate that will change.

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You're looking at things in the wrong way. Although Sony came from a console and a market where it had virtually absolute domination (ps2 era) has given almost the half of that market to the competitor x360. Ms just gained lot of market with the x360
This is mainly because the x360 was recognized (among all other things) the console where the multiplats games play better ...mainly for fps games, which was and are still today the most popular genre...at least looking at ndp data
I do not understand what we are debating at this point. I've never said that the xbox has a more famous brand I've never said it will win the next generation. I said and I repeat ... that the difference in power (who can both have) is one of the main factors when choosing a console in a time where multiplatform titles are king....
because it means that depend on your choice you will play better or worse version ... most of the titles on the market

 

[808s & Villainy]

I never believed that EA rumor. If they were acquired, you have all the sports licenses (which are contractually multiplatform) and the slate of Star Wars games (again, contractually multiplatform) which leaves you with...battlefield and anthem being exclusive? And mass effect? Seems like a lot of effort to pin down franchises that are either declining or unproven.

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So the exact same situation (without the contractual obligation) as Mojang and Minecraft?

Great news.
Hope they acquire Discord.

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Why??

 

[Acquiescence]

I wish they acquired EA instead of Ninja Theory. :(

 

[Maneil99]

I'd rather they just partner with discord and somehow incorporate them as the default communication service on Xbox

 

[Deleted member 17403]

You can't split their gaming division from the rest of the company.
Their absurd amount of money thanks to their multiple monopolies is the whole reason they are still in the market.
Every other company who ever made a console would either have died (multiple times) or would have left after the first XBox including Sony.

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I'm not attempting to stratify the gaming division from the entirety from MS. I was making the argument that just because they have mass amounts of cash doesn't equal success and that's true. Microsoft has tons of money correct, yet I wouldn't say that they've been successful in the mobile device market regardless of their acquisitions and push of Windows OS phones. They made a play there that didn't work out for them and they haven't established themselves as a major player in that segment regardless of their money. That's just meant to act as an analog for the console argument and speak to the fact that money != success. We'll see if MS buying studios and investing in different technologies will in turn lead to them winning a console generation but I wouldn't assume that they're a shoo-in for it because they'll be spending more money. I don't know why people seem to think that Sony is resting on its laurels. I'm certain they are investing proportionately equal amounts of money in their gaming business, which has already been identified as one of the pillars of Sony, to Microsoft and are expanding their already successful development teams.

People say money this, money that but Sony opened the gen with more powerful hardware at a cheaper, more appealing price. Microsoft could've done that as well considering their cache of cash yet they were outdone by a smaller, less viable and valuable company (let you all tell it). Why is that if they have all this money to frivolously squander? It's because money doesn't equal success in this market. It helps, but will not guarantee success by any means.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

still chasing that power narrative lol.
the reason MS got their ass whopped this gen by nintendo n sony is not among those bulletpoints.

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Both Sony and Microsoft care a lot about power, why would Microsoft drop that?
There are several reasons why Xbox One underperformed but selling worse hardware for a higher price definitely was a reason, combined with all the reports on having worse graphics on multiplatform games.

 

[cakely]

Zen 2 sounds great, that's what's in my gaming PC.

I really hope Microsoft doesn't buy Discord, though.

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EDIT: Ok, I have a Ryzen 2nd gen. My bad.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

Regarding the last bullet, I still fully expect Xbox to become completely unified with the PC space. The Xbox OS will be a container/VM you can run on your PC and play Xbox games. The Xbox HW will simply only run that container/VM to save CPU cycles/costs. MS has been investing heavily in virtualization technology (basically all their Azure stuff and 360BC). For the cloud tech, just spin up the containers/VMs as needed like any other cloud app.

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i think this will pay off...in the long run...by a mile

 

[nekkid]

I'm not attempting to stratify the gaming division from the entirety from MS. I was making the argument that just because they have mass amounts of cash doesn't equal success and that's true. Microsoft has tons of money correct, yet I wouldn't say that they've been successful in the mobile device market regardless of their acquisitions and push of Windows OS phones. They made a play there that didn't work out for them and they haven't established themselves as a major player in that segment regardless of their money. That's just meant to act as an analog for the console argument and speak to the fact that money != success. We'll see if MS buying studios and investing in different technologies will in turn lead to them winning a console generation but I wouldn't assume that they're a shoo-in for it because they'll be spending more money. I don't know why people seem to think that Sony is resting on its laurels. I'm certain they are investing proportionately equal amounts of money in their gaming business, which has already been identified as one of the pillars of Sony, to Microsoft and are expanding their already successful development teams.

People say money this, money that but Sony opened the gen with more powerful hardware at a cheaper, more appealing price. Microsoft could've done that as well considering their cache of cash yet they were outdone by a smaller, less viable and valuable company (let you all tell it). Why is that if they have all this money to frivolously squander? It's because money doesn't equal success in this market. It helps, but will not guarantee success by any means.

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You're right - it's money and strategy. They've always had the money but failed this gen on the strategy.

Now they have both.

 

[Defect]

Both Sony and Microsoft care a lot about power, why would Microsoft drop that?
There are several reasons why Xbox One underperformed but selling worse hardware for a higher price definitely was a reason, combined with all the reports on having worse graphics on multiplatform games.

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The Initial reveal in 2013 didn't help either.

 

[Deleted member 17403]

You're right - it's money and strategy. They've always had the money but failed this gen on the strategy.

Now they have both.

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Yea and we'll see how next gen develops because of it, so it'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Deleted member 4761]

So the exact same situation (without the contractual obligation) as Mojang and Minecraft?


Why??

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Better be Microsoft.
You prefer Apple, Google, Amazon or Facebook?

 

[Thorrgal]

wow about buying EA and Discord, as well as making 3 different model from cheapest to most expensive. shows how huge MS money and they can easily win the generation if they really want it.

I know Playstation have been really successful, but I can't helped thinking that once again, they're the underdog in the upcoming generation

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Good luck with that prediction :)

 

[Liliana]

I wish they acquired EA instead of Ninja Theory. :(

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Why? Ninja Theory needed financial stability by a long shot and can use the unlimited freedom granted to them. They also made a detailed video explaining why they wanted this. They're also a small studio with tremendous talent that has lots of potential to grow, i e., a perfect aquisition.

It's literally the opposite for EA.

 

[Deleted member 20297]

The Initial reveal in 2013 didn't help either.

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Yep, of course also that. But both Sony and Microsoft are majorly third party gaming platforms and having the worst versions of these games really is hurting sales.
But sure, the Xbox One failed because of a lot of reasons.

 

[lynux3]

It's kind of funny to read through the bullet points. Most of the bigger points look nearly identical to Sony's strategy that was outlined during PlayStation Meeting 2013. PlayStation 4 announced (x86 based), game streaming service a focus (Gaikai integration), streaming "box" (PS TV) and support for various devices (TV, Vita, PS3, PS4, PC, Mobile), etc.

Only problem is that Sony dropped PS Now support on basically everything except for PS4/PC and pretty much integrated PS Plus downloadable games option into PS Now after Xbox Game Pass went into service.

It's going to be interesting what both companies' have to say themselves for their next generation of consoles.

 

[Thorrgal]

What?

They (and Nintendo) were far behind the PS2 in the sixth gen, so you're correct there.

They were approximately 15 million units behind the market leader last gen. I believe PS3 inched past the 360 towards the end of the gen, but they came so close to each other that it was basically a tie. Even if we insist on the 360 placing third, a console selling 85 million compared to the market leader's 100 million is definitely not "dead last"

This gen they're still in second place afaik with the Wii U being the "dead last" console. The Swich will likely pass the XBO next year or in 2020 though.

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So dead last. Dead last can mean last as well, so yeah ..

 

[Deleted member 17403]

Why? Ninja Theory needed financial stability by a long shot and can use the unlimited freedom granted to them. They also made a detailed video explaining why they wanted this. They're also a small studio with tremendous talent that has lots of potential to grow, i e., a perfect aquisition.

It's literally the opposite for EA.

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Ninja Theory was a GREAT get for them. Being a Playstation fan it sucked learning that they'd be producing software exclusively for the next XB platform but I'm happy that their talent can truly blossom and we'll be able to see what they can accomplish with a generous budget and creative freedom. I wouldn't be surprised if they made some cyberpunk, crime noir game. Shit that'd be dope.