Brad Sams: The Next Gen Xbox Strategy...Zen 2, Streaming, and IP

[JINX]

Brad Sams of Thurrott who leaked the Scarlett codename and info, Xcloud etc


Summary

• Reiterates that Scarlett is 2020
• Project Roma digital attach (timestamp: https://youtu.be/JOMcXZXsCcU?t=105 )
• Scarlett is using Zen 2 and AMD's next-gen GPU technology
• "4K 60FPS is on the agenda"
• Reiterates that next-gen will take a multi pronged approach (XCloud, Cheap cloud box, traditional hardware)
• BC
• Also heard that MS considered buying EA at one point
• Heard MS is looking at Discord for acquisition
• Heard there will be changes coming to the Windows store and Xbox app, a unified system.

Extra tidbit for discussion, Phil Spencer talking about next-gen hardware at the Barclays convention:

"The thing that's interesting for us as we roll forward, is we're actually designing our next-gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud, and also works very well for machine learning and other non-entertainment workloads. As a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we're putting in.

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We have a consumer use for that silicon, and we have enterprise use for those blades as well. It all in our space around driving down the cost to serve. Your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware, and how much time does that hardware monetize.

So if we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the 24 hours through game streaming and other things that need CPU and GPU in the cloud, we will drive down the cost to serve in our services. So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team, and I think that creates a real competitive advantage."

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[Knight613]

Would be kind of weird if Microsoft bought Discord.

 

[Deleted member 9857]

I kinda hope they don't buy Discord

 

[UsoEwin]

Please do not buy Discord you already ruined Skype.

 

[Imran]

Also heard that MS considered buying EA at one point

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This is not an unknown rumor. Not sure how recently they considered it, but people have said it before.

 

[Vervain]

Zen 2 was the architecture I was hoping to see in next gen systems, especially after the low-end CPUs this gen.

Hopefully we see an equivalent of a 3500/3600 in there, albeit downclocked a little for power consumption/heat reason.

 

[Callibretto]

wow about buying EA and Discord, as well as making 3 different model from cheapest to most expensive. shows how huge MS money and they can easily win the generation if they really want it.

I know Playstation have been really successful, but I can't helped thinking that once again, they're the underdog in the upcoming generation

 

[koutoru]

I remember hearing the rumor about Microsoft considering buying EA, I didn't take it to seriously at the time but hearing this come up again makes it more interesting.

In regards to 4K 60fps being a target, I can see a ton of cross gen games hitting that target in the beginning of the generation, but as the generation moves forward developers on console will likely sacrifice 60fps for other visual enhancements.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

wow about buying EA and Discord, as well as making 3 different model from cheapest to most expensive. shows how huge MS money and they can easily win the generation if they really want it.

I know Playstation have been really successful, but I can't helped thinking that once again, they're the underdog in the upcoming generation

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Unless Xbox grow its viable markets nothing will change significantly. WERE considering buying EA.

 

[Cranster]

This is the same guy who said Halo: Infinite will launch next year with multiplayer only... I'd take this with a grain of salt.

 

[samred]

I just assume a lot of companies want to buy Discord.

The last time I interviewed Discord's top brass, roughly a year ago, they indicated that they are absolutely open to that possibility. But no news or murmurs since.

 

[ekim]

Project Roma digital attach

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What does this mean?

 

[Deleted member 17403]

wow about buying EA and Discord, as well as making 3 different model from cheapest to most expensive. shows how huge MS money and they can easily win the generation if they really want it.

I know Playstation have been really successful, but I can't helped thinking that once again, they're the underdog in the upcoming generation

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Money can't buy their success.

 

[sandworms]

I've been afraid of MS buying Discord for a while now. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

 

[JINX]

What does this mean?

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Timestamp (Your Xbox gets delivered to you with all your info already set up, including any subscriptions you bought with the console like game pass.)

 

[nikasun :D]

Wasn't Roma the console you can rent or something like that?

 

[ekim]

Timestamp (Your Xbox gets delivered to you with all your info already set up, including any subscriptions you bought with the console like game pass.)

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Thanks! (Can't watch the video rn)

 

[Ωλ7XL9]

wow about buying EA and Discord, as well as making 3 different model from cheapest to most expensive. shows how huge MS money and they can easily win the generation if they really want it.

I know Playstation have been really successful, but I can't helped thinking that once again, they're the underdog in the upcoming generation

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Oh please you don't buy success with Money. Success is earned through hardwork, listening to fan feedback and providing an immersive experience gamers ask. Sony did that right from the start of this gen while MS didn't. Sony has been successful thanks to their core pillars - Great First Party Content + Surprise Third Party exclusives + Balanced Hardware + Affordable Price.

 

[Super Havoc]

MS is not playing around at all.

 

[Callibretto]

Oh please you don't buy success with Money. Success is earned through hardwork, listening to fan feedback and providing an immersive experience gamers ask. Sony did that right from the start of this gen while MS didn't. Sony has been successful thanks to their core pillars - Great First Party Content + Surprise Third Party exclusives + Balanced Hardware + Affordable Price.

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sure that all make sense. but having money won't hurt. and MS has now starting to fix their weakness. investing in great studio to bolster their first party content, make 3 different hardware to cater to all range of demographic from the premium product, to cheap streaming box. their gamepass service is very tempting even for PS only owner like me. all these recent changes are something you can't do without the deep pocket ms have, or at the least, would be very risky moves for anyone else to try.

new generation is usually where thing get reset and everybody start fresh. and as it is now, it feels like MS have the upper hand and momentum this time going in to next gen

 

[gofreak]

When spencer talks about dual-purposing their next gen silicon, is that a reference to their console hardware silicon or only to cloud blades? Hopefully they're not going to be designing the box with too much stuff that doesn't improve games performance or that leads to bad bets wrt games performance because of a desire to accommodate other use cases. That's precisely the approach that fucked over the original Xbox One design and memory setup.

 

[JustAnotherOne]

Wow,that is big. Hyped for their approach to next gen.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

Oh please you don't buy success with Money. Success is earned through hardwork, listening to fan feedback and providing an immersive experience gamers ask. Sony did that right from the start of this gen while MS didn't. Sony has been successful thanks to their core pillars - Great First Party Content + Surprise Third Party exclusives + Balanced Hardware + Affordable Price.

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First and third party exclusives take a lot of money to produce in the AAA space. Microsoft, the parent company, is exceptionally wealthy but Xbox, the subsidiary was underfunded during the 2014-2017 period leading to the chronic shortage of xbox exclusives. Money, a lot of money is necessary to turn the ship around.

 

[Deleted member 2254]

Sounds like a collection of more or less reliable rumors we've had in the past months/years. We'll see where that goes, I guess.

 

[Trup1aya]

This is the same guy who said Halo: Infinite will launch next year with multiplayer only... I'd take this with a grain of salt.

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Pretty sure he said it would launch with SP only, followed by MP. I think (hope) that's BS, but he WAS correct about the Halo:Infinite's title and E3 reveal- so at least one of his sources is reliable.

But yeah we should always takes rumors, especially those that are years away from fruition, with a grain of salt. Even if the rumor is correct currently, things can change.

 

[Ωλ7XL9]

First and third party exclusives take a lot of money to produce in the AAA space. Microsoft, the parent company, is exceptionally wealthy but Xbox, the subsidiary was underfunded during the 2014-2017 period leading to the chronic shortage of xbox exclusives. Money, a lot of money is necessary to turn the ship around.

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Agreed

 

[Vervain]

When spencer talks about dual-purposing their next gen silicon, is that a reference to their console hardware silicon or only to cloud blades? Hopefully they're not going to be designing the box with too much stuff that doesn't improve games performance or that leads to bad bets wrt games performance because of a desire to accommodate other use cases. That's precisely the approach that fucked over the original Xbox One design and memory setup.

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The second quote makes it sound like he was specifically talking about their cloud blades and how they can be used for other purposes when the gaming load is low.

 

[nihilence]

Curious if S and X refresh or versions continue to be a thing.

 

[Ayra Sutoraifu]

wow about buying EA and Discord, as well as making 3 different model from cheapest to most expensive. shows how huge MS money and they can easily win the generation if they really want it.

I know Playstation have been really successful, but I can't helped thinking that once again, they're the underdog in the upcoming generation

Click to shrink...

Easily win? Underdog? Nah, doesn't work that way. Many said the same before the launch of this gen.

 

[Ωλ7XL9]

sure that all make sense. but having money won't hurt. and MS has now starting to fix their weakness. investing in great studio to bolster their first party content, make 3 different hardware to cater to all range of demographic from the premium product, to cheap streaming box. their gamepass service is very tempting even for PS only owner like me. all these recent changes are something you can't do without the deep pocket ms have, or at the least, would be very risky moves for anyone else to try.

new generation is usually where thing get reset and everybody start fresh. and as it is now, it feels like MS have the upper hand and momentum this time going in to next gen

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Respectfully disagree, with around 100+ million units sold by the time next gen consoles are announced, it's crystal clear Sony has more than momentum going into next gen. Microsoft acquiring studios is a thing that's necessary due to their anemic/sporadic exclusive lineup current gen. The gamepass is a neat idea and it's helping them sell more games on their platform is definitely a thing to take note of by other console manufacturers. I'd say both Sony and Microsoft's first impressions when they talk about their next gen consoles is the most crucial factor going into next gen.

 

[Cranster]

Pretty sure he said it would launch with SP only, followed by MP. I think (hope) that's BS, but he WAS correct about the Halo:Infinite's title and E3 reveal- so at least one of his sources is reliable.

But yeah we should always takes rumors, especially those that are years away from fruition, with a grain of salt. Even if the rumor is correct currently, things can change.

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Yeah I couldn't remember which way it was, but that would be even worse.

 

[Kerozinn]

still chasing that power narrative lol.
the reason MS got their ass whopped this gen by nintendo n sony is not among those bulletpoints.

 

[Bradbatross]

still chasing that power narrative lol.
the reason MS got their ass whopped this gen by nintendo n sony is not among those bulletpoints.

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And what reason is that?

 

[Xx 720]

I'd imagine Zen 2 will be standard for both next gen systems, going to be beastly

 

[Banderdash]

I'm amazed Discord hasn't been bought yet.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yeah I couldn't remember which way it was, but that would be even worse.

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Remember how upset people were when H5 launched with only Warzone and 4 Arena gametypes (slayer, CTF, strongholds & breakout). Now, imagine if 343s response to that outrage was to release with no MP at all? Lol.

I'm not saying he didnt get the info from a trusted source. But I'm thinking some wires got crossed because that would be an unfathomable mistake.

 

[Cranster]

Remember how upset people were when H5 launched with only Warzone and 4 Arena gametypes (slayer, CTF, strongholds & breakout). Now, imagine if 343s response to that outrage was to release with no MP at all? Lol.

I'm not saying he didnt get the info from a trusted source. But I'm thinking some wires got crossed because that would be an unfathomable mistake.

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Yup, I completely agree. At most 343i hinted that Halo: Infinite will have an insider program/beta similar to MCC which would be a good move.

 

[gofreak]

The second quote makes it sound like he was specifically talking about their cloud blades and how they can be used for other purposes when the gaming load is low.

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Yeah, though the silicon in the cloud blades and the silicon in the local box can't, at one level, diverge too much. Otherwise you may as well not have specific blades for your cloud service.

I hope whatever design choices he's talking about are either not inextricable from the local box or are completely inconsequential from a cost and/or game performance POV. I'd like to think that within the parameters of what AMD is offering this time, there isn't much room to go too far off a good track. In any case, after what happened with the xb1 design and what a dilution of focus did there, this is a strange noise for him to be making publicly.

 

[Xx 720]

Think the backward compatibility is going to be God tier, perhaps 4k/60 on everything, already 4k or close now, wonder if X1 gen games will get enhanced.

 

[Super Havoc]

Remember how upset people were when H5 launched with only Warzone and 4 Arena gametypes (slayer, CTF, strongholds & breakout). Now, imagine if 343s response to that outrage was to release with no MP at all? Lol.

I'm not saying he didnt get the info from a trusted source. But I'm thinking some wires got crossed because that would be an unfathomable mistake.

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It would be monumentally disastrous and I, like you am one of the biggest Halo fanboys on this site saying this.

 

[Ayra Sutoraifu]

And what reason is that?

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Lack of brand power, price, (exclusive)software output, global brand recognition. It wil be very, very hard for MS to 'win' a generation if Sony en Nintendo play their cards right. Somehow a lot of people now thinking Sony is sitting on their laurels. People keep forgetting that outside the US and UK the xbox is just very weak.

new generation is usually where thing get reset and everybody start fresh. and as it is now, it feels like MS have the upper hand and momentum this time going in to next gen

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Disagree. What momentum are you talking about? Some threads on era that most people don't know off? The reset is going to be different now with people more attached to the eco system of their platform and BC. PS4 has gained massive amount of goodwill this gen with their games. People will want to see that on the PS5. And a lot of people just play their fifa, cod or rdr and not much else. They play on a system that their friends have, isn't too expensive and which is basically 'easy to go to' cq. brand loyalty.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Timestamp (Your Xbox gets delivered to you with all your info already set up, including any subscriptions you bought with the console like game pass.)

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MS preparing themselves for the all-digital (non-GameStop) future where they have to sell hardware themselves.

 

[gremlinz1982]

Lack of brand power, price, (exclusive)software output, global brand recognition. It wil be very, very hard for MS to 'win' a generation if Sony en Nintendo play their cards right. Somehow a lot of people now thinking Sony is sitting on their laurels. People keep forgetting that outside the US and UK the xbox is just very weak.



Disagree. What momentum are you talking about? Some threads on era that most people don't know off? The reset is going to be different now with people more attached to the eco system of their platform and BC. PS4 has gained massive amount of goodwill this gen with their games. People will want to see that on the PS5. And a lot of people just play their fifa, cod or rdr and not much else. They play on a system that their friends have, isn't too expensive and which is basically 'easy to go to' cq. brand loyalty.

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The two companies have two different strategies in the absence of anything new coming from Sony to confirm that they may be working on a streaming platform or looking towards a subscription service.

A lot of what Microsoft is doing will be a success if they can get people subscribed to Game Pass on PC, mobile, tablet and if they manage to shift a good number of streaming consoles then the generation will be a success.

Also brand loyalty is not really a thing. Nintendo went from 100 million plus consoles on the Wii to a subpar Wii U. Microsoft went from 20 million to four times that and then followed it up with this shambles of a generation. It is a collection of factors from cost, how a product is presented, software.

A new generation is always a new start. And I still expect that Sony will sell more consoles than anyone else.

 

[Ayra Sutoraifu]

The two companies have two different strategies in the absence of anything new coming from Sony to confirm that they may be working on a streaming platform or looking towards a subscription service.

A lot of what Microsoft is doing will be a success if they can get people subscribed to Game Pass on PC, mobile, tablet and if they manage to shift a good number of streaming consoles then the generation will be a success.

Also brand loyalty is not really a thing. Nintendo went from 100 million plus consoles on the Wii to a subpar Wii U. Microsoft went from 20 million to four times that and then followed it up with this shambles of a generation. It is a collection of factors from cost, how a product is presented, software.

A new generation is always a new start. And I still expect that Sony will sell more consoles than anyone else.

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Maybe brand preference is a better word ;-) I have no doubt it will be successful, i was talking more about a comparison with Nintendo and Sony. Xbox one is still a succes, right? Wii U is was a real name fuck-up. Still sounds like a peripheral. PS3 launched a year later, and way more expensive then the 360 and still managed to slighlty come atop.

 

[gremlinz1982]

Maybe brand preference is a better word ;-) I have no doubt it will be successful, i was talking more about a comparison with Nintendo and Sony. Xbox one is still a succes, right? Wii U is was a real name fuck-up. Still sounds like a peripheral. PS3 launched a year later, and way more expensive then the 360 and still managed to slighlty come atop.

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1. I do not know what the acceptance levels for streaming will be when these consoles launch, but one thing that may appeal to the masses is a cheap console that allows people to access the same games with a subscription service that also cheap. Microsoft wants to get to a position where you do not have to invest in new hardware to get access to their games. We already have good streaming options like Nvidia on the market, Google has been eyeing it with Project Stream.

A lot will depend on how good their content offering is, and they are trying to make it more diverse than Sony or Nintendo. The one area I think they are lacking right now is JRPG's.

2. There is nothing such as wholesale brand loyalty/preference in business.Even Apple which used to have growth on top of growth is seeing reduction across their product range because a) Cost and b) Removing of accessories that used to be default. People move with what suits their needs and price at any given time. I also think that a lot of what we saw this generation may not necessarily be as important next generation.

 

[gofreak]

The two companies have two different strategies in the absence of anything new coming from Sony to confirm that they may be working on a streaming platform or looking towards a subscription service.

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I'm not sure I grabbed this right - but Sony of course is working on both those things. They have a streaming platform out right now, and two flavours of content subscription they're iterating on.

Sony and MS will be competing on a lot of the same fronts - take out the bit about specific acquisitions in the OP and you could more or less sub in Microsoft for Sony or vice versa. Of course in the detail and in philosophy they will differentiate - and we have to see if MS will move into things like VR with Xbox in a bigger way next gen - but the broad stroke delivery fronts name-checked there won't be exactly blue-ocean territory for either.

 

[Phonomezer]

I hope they buy Discord

 

[Deleted member 4072]

Zen 2 was the architecture I was hoping to see in next gen systems, especially after the low-end CPUs this gen.

Hopefully we see an equivalent of a 3500/3600 in there, albeit downclocked a little for power consumption/heat reason.

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3600 would offer a massive boost over what we currently have, but they would probably have to shave a bit off that for like you said, and cost. RAM prices at the moment are still worrying for next gen, still very expensive.

 

[Bear and bird]

Glad to hear that they're still aiming for 2020. It's the perfect launch year imo. A bunch of their studios will be ready to release or unveil their next games by then.

 

[TheTruthofKayle]

Money can't buy their success.

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Yeah ms unsuccessfully the first or second richest company in the world lol