I don't know when will people stop with this nonsense. This post isn't even a week old:
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Brad Sams: New Info on Lockhart shape and Lockhart "holding back" next gen
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Er, what? Development and profiling are two different things. Is this in relation to the PC-ness of modern consoles making the dev units more a case of "finding out how effectively the software will run on target hardware", with the bulk of dev taking place natively on PC, or is the reporter getting terms somewhat confused?
Did it now? Was RDR2 held back the X1S? One of the best looking games of the generation, and open world.
Jason himself expressed that he prefers PlayStation over Xbox. Nowhere did I call him a fanboy.
Eh, the existence of Lockhart would be reason enough not to get the series x. At least not till I see how it plays out in terms of exclusives. If there are any differences at or close to launch it will only get worse as the gen goes on. There is a reason Sony is not doing it and it's likely because exclusives are their bread and butter.
It's a great augment, because it can't be disproven.
Imagine how much BETTER Red Dead would be without the One S in the picture!
He's just not aware of his biases.
And the "how could I be biased towards Sony when I wrote a couple of critical articles on them" defense is basically the journalists' version of "how can I be a racist if I have a black friend."
You're missing the point. That poster is saying Control having to run on a GTX 1660 does not affect the RTX 2080Ti one bit.
But neither is relevant, because the game is first and foremost designed around the capabilities of the base Xbox One.
lol that's a ridiculous comparison.
Because of its shitty CPU not because of its shitty GPU.
Lower bound GPUs would not logically limit a games upperbound.
The LH from the leaks only has none of the "slow" RAM and a weaker GPU.
THe CPU and SSD are the same as the Series X.
So it wont be holding back game design.
At least going by what they shown so far, all Sony's exclusive are native 4K. That means there is plenty of room to scale them down for a less powerful gpu.
It's certainly possible. From a design standpoint, you'd have to consider that any planned features/design would scale to portable mode as well, so it's possible it would have an effect on the overall design of the game. Then, depending on the scope of the game and the team resources, you optimize the game to best work in both docked and portable. Like, look at Ratchet and Clank: A Rift Apart, for example. A huge part of its design conceit is being able to seamlessly jump between worlds in seconds. Like, loading entire levels in seconds, and doing so again seconds later. If that game was coming to Switch, that simply wouldn't be possible, so the entire design of the game would have to be reworked. It would be a totally different game in scope and feel.
Not really, so far there are a few sources reporting the concern directly from devs
Nobody's arguing rift apart would work on switch (any mode). Bad example.
Is is seriously your contention that if the GPU in Lockhart was the equivalent power to 4.2TF GCN, so let's say 3TF RDNA2 "it holds back next gen" would be valid - but now it's "known" to be 4TF developers holding that opinion are simply incorrect?
I mean, what does not holding back mean. Does getting the CPU up to parity mean that literally any game you could design for Series X could be made to run on Lockhart with no changes other than resolution? Because that's really what you need for "not holding back" to be true, at a minimum. And even then is it "any game you design for Serirs X can be made to run on Lockhart with no changes other than resolution so long as you do X amount of work to get it running"? Because if that X is too high, you'll still have lots of devs making the economic decision to develop to the lower standard to save that work. Those problems seem solvable, but I really want to see the full Microsoft presentation on how it'll work and the developer testimony that yes, it really does work well, before I full believe it.
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I still see the lower GPU power as a potential hurdle. This gen will see use of many complex shaders, raytracing, and other expensive effects and the internal, pre-AI-upscaled resolution of demanding games on the XSX may be 1080P or 1440P to begin with. A third to quarter internal res on XSS would make for some really low image quality to maintain performance, which factoring in AI-upscaling could lead to issues as the initial image sample would be of low quality.
I'm not sure why that wouldn't potentially limit the initial XSX target if compatibility with XSS is a must.
I'm not sure why that wouldn't potentially limit the initial XSX target if compatibility with XSS is a must.
Conspiracy theories. His information is more believable than a person saying it's comparable to PS4 Pro GPU for all we know. I don't doubt the person saying that, but the information he got early on should be doubted, because developers aren't stupid and should know the difference between RDNA2 and PS4 Pro GPU.
Depends on the requirements of the game. If it is CPU bound, then that's certainly possible to do 120FPS.
Oh pleaseeeee the pearl clutching in this thread is hilarious. If people are willing to give Schrier a pass on some of his obvious joke roasts of Lockhart (whatever your opinions on the other stuff), I can't see why they're getting mad at the EXACT SAME THING here. Sure, maybe it'd be much better if none of them said anything at all. Maybe it'd also be much better if people stopped jumping to conclusions about the character of a person and their fundamental nature over essentially inconsequential stuff.
Huh.
Huh.
The 1060 is going to fall behind next-gen power. The RTX 2060 or 1660 Ti will replace it in system requirements.
As with all generational shift, PC gamers have to sink or swim. Upgrade or else.
What I don't understand with Lockheart not 'holding back' the Series X, is that surely if you are forcing a resolution difference of 1080p and 4k that is going to limit what developers can do. Say they want to run a more intensive game at 1440p on the Series X to ensure a stable performance, how would they be able to also make it run at 1080p on Lockheart (nobody wants a game at 720p surely)? So surely the existence of a lower power console inherently creates a bottleneck because there's an extra limitation to how intensive a series X game can be?
Series X games are presumably going to have to be upscaled Lockheart games, rather than Lockheart games being downscaled Series X games, right? Also take the current gen, would games on the PS4 Pro/One X have looked better if they were the base console?
Series X games are presumably going to have to be upscaled Lockheart games, rather than Lockheart games being downscaled Series X games, right? Also take the current gen, would games on the PS4 Pro/One X have looked better if they were the base console?
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In that instance I think the developers would drop resolution to 1080p/something close to it and then scale back additional graphics effects where necessary to hit roughly the same level of performance.
This makes sense. I wonder how big an effect it would have on how the games actually look (I imagine stuff like RT reflections would be an example of something that would get scaled back).
My prediction is that ray-tracing will be massively dialed back in the Lockhart versions of games. Sure, it supports it, but unless AMD's RT solution is some magical stuff I don't see how I won't be one of the first things to go.
User Banned (1 Week) - Accusations of Shilling with history of platform warring
As far as I'm concerned this guy's obvious fanboy tendencies make his claims about the platform not holding Series X back completely unbelievable. I think 'Lockhart' if it exists is going to cause serious problems for MS. They've really just failed to understand the direction that real-time rendering is heading, between their painfully slow I/O solution in their supposed 'high end' console and this worthless box that simply does not have the horsepower to do anything. I wouldn't be surprised if Sony start copping a lot of 'free' exclusives just so developers can avoid the Lockhart nightmare.
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lol fanboy
you really haven't read the shit they say about Microsoft at thurrott.com have you
Literally the most critical critics on the Microsoft beat
I've been aware of their fanboy website since they were telling me Windows Vista wasn't as bad as everyone claimed.
Their website has only existed for a few years and Brad wasn't writing about windows in the vista era
Try again
I went through your post history.
I hope they pay you well...
Sometimes but yeah, I don't think this was ever going to be a real issue since the biggest leaps that actual change game design are the CPU and SSD, both included.
Avatar bet for when the RTX 2060 becomes commonplace min-Spec.
I say 2024 at the earliest, 2026 for when having anything under an RTX 2060 really starts to affect games you can play.
RDR2 still had a GTX7 as its min-Spec and that game is arguably the best looking game this generation.
The Lockhart isnt going to hold back shit the lowerbound doesnt dictate the upperbound when it comes to GPUs.
The gulf between min, rec and ide-Spec can be jarring.
SO if lockhart is "holding back" anything it will be on the RAM side......but on the GPU front thats a nope from me.
Devs can cut back as much as needed to make a game work on a weak GPU.
Look up potato quality videos and youll see with enough time the lowerbound of graphical kingpins is legit a potato.
I'd like to weigh in on the most important issue in this thread: the Lockhart should indeed be a smol cube.
S won't make X games look or perform worse. A GPU downgrade won't hold anything back, especially when there's just two GPU's.
You'll just get worse graphics/performance on the shittier GPU.
6GB less RAM seems sketchy though. Perhaps that's all effectively VRAM that the S theoretically doesn't need at 1080p, potato settings etc.
But yeah that's significantly less RAM for developers to use for whatever.
On the X you can balance RAM usage like 13GB system, 0.5GB video. I don't know how or why you would, this is just a stupid example, but whatever visually regressed weird thicc game that is, it would be impossible on the S.
You'll just get worse graphics/performance on the shittier GPU.
6GB less RAM seems sketchy though. Perhaps that's all effectively VRAM that the S theoretically doesn't need at 1080p, potato settings etc.
But yeah that's significantly less RAM for developers to use for whatever.
On the X you can balance RAM usage like 13GB system, 0.5GB video. I don't know how or why you would, this is just a stupid example, but whatever visually regressed weird thicc game that is, it would be impossible on the S.
So 2024, when the pubs are done with the last-gen consoles and the true next-gen exclusives are dropping. So you are... agreeing with me? I didn't say immediately after all.
And you want a 4 year advance on an avatar bet. Maybe don't take this so seriously.
Portable mode requiring a small form factor and thermal envelope holds back docked mode more than anything else. Xbox won't have that issue.
I'm wondering if the team every seriously stopped after seeing that design and started to seriously consider it.
Though I imagine unless they were already planning something similar, by the time they saw it it would be way too late to make the required changes.