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mas8705

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,497
The only other example I can think of that apparently raised all kind of hell was the whole "Jontron" situation where people were boycotting A Hat In Time due to his "previous statements" even though in the final game, his voice is only in the game for less than 30 seconds. But that's a whole different discussion I'm sure that's already come and gone.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
The only other example I can think of that apparently raised all kind of hell was the whole "Jontron" situation where people were boycotting A Hat In Time due to his "previous statements" even though in the final game, his voice is only in the game for less than 30 seconds. But that's a whole different discussion I'm sure that's already come and gone.

I feel like the fact that it was less than 30 seconds only reinforces the stupidity of not removing it.
 

Castor Archer

Member
Jan 8, 2019
2,296
I loved Shadow Complex when it first came out, didn't know it was related to Orson Scott Card at the time. Whenever I learned about it I couldn't delete that shit off of my hard drive fast enough lol

I'll never touch Hat in Time, Kingdom Come, The Last Night, and anything from Gearbox, Bethesda, EA, and Rockstar.

EDIT: Oh right, and anything with Adam Baldwin or even remotely GG-related.
 

Gloomz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,402
No, because the actor got paid regardless and my purchase of the game won't affect that unless there's some weirdo royalty deal which there almost never is. Either way, expect a lot of "I boycotted Code Name Steam because of (X Actor)" responses.

Came to post this.

I see this discussion brought up in other entertainment areas like music - ultimately, are you able to separate the art from the artist?

I usually can.
 

Golden

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Dec 9, 2018
928
User Banned (2 Weeks): Handwaving and excusing bigotry; account still in junior phase
I think you are being a bit over sensitive to be honest. We shouldn't always be looking for faults in other people.

James woods is known for being a bit snarky, and is probably a bit of a pick, but that doesn't mean he is homophobic/anti - tran.
 

Brutalitops

Member
Dec 6, 2017
1,251
Hitler reincarnated could be the sole creator and beneficiary of all KH3 profits and it still wouldn't stop me from buying this game and injecting it directly into my veins
 

dreamcast

Member
Oct 27, 2017
520
I avoid games due to content I rather not have for entertainment.

If I avoid games (and all entertainment for that matter) based on those who worked on them or do voiceover work etc, for them, I'd probably end up playing nothing.
 

IrishNinja

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,837
Vice City
i respect your effort OP, wish more people recognized their power with boycotts - james woods is a shitheel but hey, you can always buy used
 

Deleted member 19742

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 27, 2017
703
Learn to separate the art from the artist.

Isn't that a little harsh? It's possible in some cases, and not so much in others, depending on one's viewpoints and personal history with difficult subjects. Not everyone can do it, and they shouldn't be condemned for it unless they're wasting their time screaming at people who choose to enjoy the artist's work, in which case they're only unhealthily exhausting themselves over an issue they have no control over.

It's not a matter of "I'm going to choose to boycott every product and service and institution that is ethically and/or morally unsound because of either employees or the company/product itself" because that is impossible in pretty much every circumstance. You pick and choose because you pretty much have to pick and choose in the world that we live today. We work with the information that we have and the choices that we are given. This doesn't excuse all our behavior and actions, but sometimes at least you can make up for some of the choices you make with others.

This is how I feel, personally. I no longer buy new copies of Dragon Quest games because I strongly disagree with the composer's views on certain subjects, and I didn't buy A Hat In Time because I disliked how they kept JonTron, but, again, I'm not going to begrudge those who bought those games, since the games do have a lot of appeal and other factors to like about them. I can understand the whole "one idiot worked on these games while a lot of good people worked on these games; do you want to undercut the latter group?", but...fuck it. Still my choice.

The only other example I can think of that apparently raised all kind of hell was the whole "Jontron" situation where people were boycotting A Hat In Time due to his "previous statements" even though in the final game, his voice is only in the game for less than 30 seconds. But that's a whole different discussion I'm sure that's already come and gone.

I think I was more annoyed that they opted to keep him at all rather than his role (however small or large) in the game proper, but yeah, the discussion's come and gone on that.
 

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,858
Edmonton
I don't think I've ever done it.

Or in other forms of media, for that matter. I've been rewatching Chuck recently and still enjoying it - though it helps that Baldwin's character is supposed to be a bit of a douche.
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,819
Orlando, FL
There's nothing that could be done regarding James Woods's involvement in the Kingdom Hearts games. Contractual issues and whatnot. So as a result, I don't take issue with it.

A Hat in Time's situation is a lot less excusable, though. It would've been very easy to replace JonTron in that game, or at least even acknowledge how problematic he is, but the devs didn't bother with any of that. So even now I still do not own the game despite being a backer for it.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,875
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
Olympus is consistently the worst part of Kingdom Hearts to me, so to me they are going out of their way to make the game less fun and giving work to a jackass like James Woods.

Either way, I skipped Dragon Quest 11 because of Koichi Sugiyama, the hateful old composer and co-owner of the franchise. Aside from arbitrarily making video games sound worse so his concerts can sound better in comparison, his hobbies consist of denying war crimes and laughing at the deaths of LGBT people on TV. When someone pointed out that spending money on the Dragon Quest franchise directly contributes to this stuff, I decided I didn't want to be part of it any more. I won't look down on the people who prioritise their own personal enjoyment of Dragon Quest over not sponsoring hate and ignorance. All I ask is not to make excuses for it. That's just what it is.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Not trying to be dismissive but can't you just choose a different language (for example Japanese) to avoid this issue?

I'm no expert OP but I am pretty sure Japanese version of Hades isn't played by James Woods.
 

striderno9

The Fallen
Oct 31, 2017
2,343
New York, NY
He's a very good actor. He's a very terrible person. Its up to us to decide who we can support and who we cant and that's a very personal thing. If he was good enough or I was such a fan I would still buy media with him in it, if I was only so so about him I would have less trouble boycotting him.
 

TheBeardedOne

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,189
Derry
I may not agree with what he said or thinks, but I don't want to deprive myself of anything I want to play. So I don't boycott games.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,426
I loved Shadow Complex when it first came out, didn't know it was related to Orson Scott Card at the time. Whenever I learned about it I couldn't delete that shit off of my hard drive fast enough lol

I'll never touch Hat in Time, Kingdom Come, The Last Night, and anything from Gearbox, Bethesda, EA, and Rockstar.

EDIT: Oh right, and anything with Adam Baldwin or even remotely GG-related.
I donated money to a LGBTQ+ organization when I found out about the orson scott card stuff. Damage was already done, so might as well balance the scales.
 

Emmert

Banned
Oct 23, 2018
482
How am I turning it around on the OP? I literally said I understand how they feel and they totally are valid in feeling the way they do. It's just not the way to go about addressing this issue as it harms so many innocent people in the process.

But I also noticed how they clarified their sentiments behind the word "boycott" and I'm in total agreement with them.

I don't think it's OP's responsibility to support the people who work on the game. I think that's more the responsibility of the higher ups who decide it's OK to have a bigot in the cast.

Learn to separate the art from the artist.

Do you do that for all art? I can see it not being a big deal in this case, but I don't think I could do the same for R. Kelly or Roman Polanski.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,134
Go for it. But I won't. People's work can still have value even if they are shitty people.
 

ohitsluca

Member
Oct 29, 2017
730
Obviously it's a personal decision for everyone but I wouldn't discredit so many peoples years of hard work because 1 asshole also worked on the same project.
 

J75

Member
Sep 29, 2018
6,596
I never had to boycott any game since i'm not interested in some of the popular games with problematic people (A Hat in Time, The Last Night, Kingdom Come, Dragon Quest, that seduction game ect.) However, I've done it with some films, i will never watch Chinatown in my life despite my love for noir/detective films.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,969
I don't think I've ever chosen not to a buy a game solely for this reason, but it's another factor that weighs into my purchasing decision. Like, Kingdom Come is something that I'd be interested in but didn't really need anyway, so it just becomes a less attractive purchase.

What I don't get is how upset some people get at other people doing this. People choose not to buy games because of the graphics, because of the story, because of the gameplay. Yet if it's for an ethical reason suddenly, suddenly you're taking the bread out of the developer's children's mouths, and you're an inferior being who lacks the power to separate the art for the artist.

I have to wonder if seeing someone else make an ethical decision makes other people uncomfortable with the awareness that they aren't willing to make them, and so you have to shut it down so you're spared from being assaulted by your conscience.
 
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adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,161
If I play Kingdom hearts 3 I'll be able to hit James Woods repeatedly in the face with a large key.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
User Banned (3 days): Advocating Piracy
I got so much on my radar/backlog I don't even have to boycott. I just... reprioritize. Besides, "voting with your wallet" doesn't do shit. The market for these games are far too big. It's just a meme reinforced by free market types to discourage collective action.

Piracy is always an option for me. I'm not a thief, I'm an Illegalist! It's an anticapitalist act! :p
 

Deleted member 12352

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,203
His presence is the only thing keeping me from picking the game up (day one/new at least.).

Used to love the guy's movies but damn he has really been outed as a monstrous piece of shit in recent times.
 
Oct 27, 2017
839
I love playing Doug Tennapel games even though I can't identify with him. His claymation work is a real treat and I love his style. The neverhood, skullmonkeys, armikrog, big foot bill...

But yeah I'm not religious and I don't agree with his views. Honestly it feels pretty on par with eating at chic-fil-a

And obviously I don't boycot content because an artist is associated with it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
I'm sure there's a lot of people involved in the video games I love that I'd probably hate IRL. So, while, yes I think James Woods is a terrible human being, I'm not gonna let him ruin KH3 for me.
 

Larrikin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,712
While I definitely understand avoiding a game featuring a prominent voice actor who happens to be a scumbag; it would be extremely difficult to find a big game that has 0% association with any bad human beings in some way.
If Kevin Bacon turns out to be a bad guy the entire media industry is fucked.
 

Deleted member 16908

Oct 27, 2017
9,377
ResetEra user Council Pop explained my feelings on situations like this better than I ever could in the following post (taken from a discussion about Sugiyama, the anti-LGBT composer of the Dragon Quest soundtracks):

This is so pointlessly individualist and also irrelevant. Why does it even matter if he gets more money? Who cares? He's not a major political donor, he has no power to really change anything- him getting more money, in a material sense, means literally nothing. Americans are kinda obsessed with this because they think that money = happiness or a 'better' life or whatever. But I don't really think that at all, so I don't care how much he does or doesn't accumulate, or think I have any personal responsibility.

I need some sources about him using money to fund LGBT hate campaigns. He funded a war crime denying ad in the Washington Post ten years ago. As I said, he's not a major political donor and he has no real political power. Yeah it's gross but the idea that someone buying a Dragon Quest game is essentially donating money to some huge right wing hate campaigns is so ridiculous. You might wanna check out all the shareholders for all the companies whose products you buy or services you use, cos I bet you will find many people who have donated significantly larger amounts of money to significantly larger campaigns which have actually made things worse for LGBT people. Especially with regards to anti gay marriage campaigns. This shit happens everywhere all the time.

And I'm not seperating the art from the artist, because it's pretty fucking separate already. He's not making autobiographical art where we're asked to empathise with him personally. He's composing pastichey and often mediocre music for a JRPG franchise. It's already removed from the core of the creative process, and his personal political views are obviously even further removed from that.

I am queer and I am fucking sick of being told what I can or can't like because of a combination of random bigots and intense moralistic Americans on social media. I am sick of restrictions being constantly placed on queer people. We can like what we like and not have to make fucking excuses for ourselves all the time. The world is homophobic and is something LGBT people face each day. The vast, vast majority of us have no desire to sacrifice the things we like in life, such as beloved video games, just to piss into the wind, trying to make a point that ultimately no-one is going to care about, about someone who has no significant material impact on anyone's lives.

I can hear worse stuff than Sugiyama's rants said in the pub any day of the week. I don't stop going to the pub because I have every right to be there, just as I have every right to play video games where parts are made by homophobes, or stuff that contains casual homophobia such as Persona 5, or any of the thousands of games and films that are similar.

Fine, you may think consumer boycotts are the way forward, and I think they're pointless. We'll agree to disagree. But don't shame me, or any other queer people, for liking things that you deem problematic. We're absolutely capable of thinking for ourselves, and many, many people have the capacity to acknowledge the problematic elements of something whilst enjoying the majority of it. And whether or not we spend money on it has nothing to do with how dedicated we are to LGBT rights, and to suggest so is incredibly offensive.

I'm not gonna tell anyone who to support or how to spend their money but if you actually dedicated yourself to only supporting corporations that are composed entirely of pro-LGBT people, you would have very few good games to play and you would also probably starve to death.
 

Parisi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,809
I skipped that Life is Strange prequel "Before the Storm" because they had used different voice actors because the game was made when they were on strike, and I was not going to support a game that did not use the original talent...
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,614
There's nothing that could be done regarding James Woods's involvement in the Kingdom Hearts games. Contractual issues and whatnot. So as a result, I don't take issue with it.

A Hat in Time's situation is a lot less excusable, though. It would've been very easy to replace JonTron in that game, or at least even acknowledge how problematic he is, but the devs didn't bother with any of that. So even now I still do not own the game despite being a backer for it.

These are pretty much my thoughts. It sucks because I loved Hades growing up, but he has right of first refusal or whatever. Also, it's KINGDOM HEARTS 3 and I'm weak. At least for me it generally tends to be that controversies and stuff like this will stop me from getting a game I'm interested in, but not a game I've already bought mentally. So, for example, I've steered clear of A Hat In Time and Dragon Quest but there was never a question about Kingdom Hearts. I guess it's sorta like that 'people only care about white washing if the end result is bad' thing and I'm part of the problem.
 

Heisenberg726

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
Nope. I'm not, and never are, going to boycott a game, movie, or any other form of entertainment because someone who made it or starred in it is a piece of shit. I don't care if they have personally offended me, my culture, or something else concerning me. I'm not gonna boycott.

You make your own choices though. If you decide to boycott, that's okay. It's your own choice, and it's not like I would be bothered by that. But personally, I don't factor in the personal beliefs or opinions of the people who helped make a game at all into my decision of playing it.
 

Deleted member 43077

User requested account closure
Banned
May 9, 2018
5,741
I haven't skipped out on a game because of one person and honestly dont plan to, im in it for the entertainment that game or movie provides whether I watch or play more from that certain creator/studio is more about if I like there previous stuff or if I like something familiar and am willing to give something new a try.

Lots of people are shit, too many to worry about who worked on what and what they did/said about x,y and z. Just give me the game and hopefully its fun if it is then great ill take more please if not? welp thats a shame time to move on to the next one.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,672
No. Unless every person involved is a slime-ball, I can't put the whole company down because of a few bad apples.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
He is a disgusting person but his input on the game is a very tiny percent of the whole package.

For me that's different than, say, that guy from Dragon Quest. His art is much more prominent there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
I think theres a difference based on how involved someone is in a project.

If it's one voice actor of a side character, who cares? He's not a part of the core of the game and he doesn't benefit any further than he already did from a sold copy. If it's the creator or head of a studio himself though, that's a different story. Where to draw the line, that's the difficult part.

And it's not like it's not working. There are so many stories of products or companies tanking because one key person said something stupid publicly, even before the internet was a thing. It's basically any marketing guys worst nightmare.

Nope. I'm not, and never are, going to boycott a game, movie, or any other form of entertainment because someone who made it or starred in it is a piece of shit. I don't care if they have personally offended me, my culture, or something else concerning me. I'm not gonna boycott.

Even if a creator of something would insult you personally and publicly? I'm pretty sure I would steer away from anything that person touches.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
Sometimes terrible people do great work. This is all around us. Everybody has to decide for themselves how that makes them feel about the work and to what extent they can enjoy it.
 
Dec 9, 2018
20,954
New Jersey
I vehemently disagree with James Woods' politics but boycotting an entire game that has a massive cast and had so many passionate people working on it because of his involvement seems more detrimental to me than helpful. I never see myself as directly supporting a far right-wing ideology when I buy KH3, I see myself supporting a work of art that people have spent years working on it. I support the game, not quite the people behind it. Our money goes directly towards more games from these people, so I think it's a good investment if I'm super hyped for that game and love what I'm seeing.