This thread is just the opposite of this video. Both views suck, both places make great games. This thread sucks.
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BOTW, RE2, Sekiro, DMCV, Nier, FF7R - Have japanese devs surpassed the western devs?
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
This thread is just the opposite of this video. Both views suck, both places make great games. This thread sucks.
I think this is very much true. However, the AA titles that come from Japan benefit from having some of the biggest names in the industry, with tons of experience in action gameplay.
So it still contributes to this perception, in a way.
I do find games like Vampyr and the kind of stuff Focus Home likes to publish far more interesting than the vast majority of western AAA titles, but they still suffer from the budget limitations you'd expect from a western AA game. They just can't compare 1 to 1 to what we consider AAA in the context of the japanese industry.
Maybe with time they'll get there. I'm very much looking forward to the next game by the same core team who made Vampyr, one of my favorite 2018 games. The Darksiders 3 guys are also incredibly talented, they're probably the ones in the western AA space that get the closest to the kind of experience I enjoy the most in japanese games. Amazing title.
It means "my opinion is right, your opinion is wrong"
Which, coincidentally, is the theme of this entire thread.
From that topic:
Death Stranding - 73
Resident Evil 2 - 68
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice - 48
Control - 25
Disco Elysium - 14
Fire Emblem: Three Houses - 8
The Outer Worlds - 8
Outer Wilds - 6
Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order - 6
Western games had plenty of awesome games last year too.
Since you want to play the GOTY card:
2003 - 2010 -> One Jp title and 7 western titles
2011 GOTY winner -> Western title
2012 GOTY winner -> Western title
2013 GOTY winner -> Western title
2014 GOTY winner -> Western title
2015 GOTY winner -> Western title
2016 GOTY winner -> Western title
2017 GOTY winner -> Japanese title
2018 GOTY winner -> Western title
The only Japanese games that claimed the GOTY in the last 16 years were RE4 16 years ago and BOTW 3 years ago.
i mean, by that token there's still a huge swath of indie games that will never win goty cause they don't have the marketing budget.
Ditto for genre like Strategy or Multiplayer games.
I dunno, i feel like Capcom having a good run is a much different proposition than "japanese games have surpassed western ones". To me at least that implies more than 3 games.
This.
They mostly were in trouble with the technical part of games in the previous generation.
Japan's output is trash and will be trash since nothing even come close to revolutionary industry defining Knack.
Also it's so funny how I never ever see opposite threads getting made. Propping up western output but downplaying Japanese. It's always the other way around, there's like few threads a months like this.
Also it's so funny how I never ever see opposite threads getting made. Propping up western output but downplaying Japanese. It's always the other way around, there's like few threads a months like this.
It doesn't, but the sheer amount of Japanese games available on PS versus any other platform means the JP game enthusiasts are going to be on PS. I'd be confident you could take all the PS-preferring users of this forum that don't like JP games and leave just those that do and they'd still outnumber Xbox enthusiasts by a large margin.
Never seen this before.
That's embarrassing. What's even more embarrassing is the fact that the gaming world offered a platform for people like this.
Im happy to see Japan getting its collective shit together because for a while they were struggling with HD development but surpassed??? ITs video games and everyone is making money moves in many different genres and succeeding. Is Japan better at certain genres? For sure. Same for the west. But lets not do this. Its kinda weird.
There's definitely a difference in approach to game development and some people like this more, others that.
What I find interesting is that - And I'm just guessing here - due to most western studios nowadays thinking that Open World is the pinnacle of level design, it's surprisingly hard to find level designers out there that actually know what they're doing. Sculpting some terrain and then having to fill it up with content is a completely different discipline than actually properly grayboxing every inch of an experience in the way Nintendo, From, etc. do it.
Y'all would be surprised how many designers in this industry with 10+ years of experience don't even know the basics of level design. They all think they do, of course, but once you put them to a test, it's very obvious that this skill has almost gone missing. I would bet that if you'd have some of the 'best' designers out there trying to make a 3d Mario level, they'd fail on oh so many levels... there's still a few great ones out there and usually we gobble those up at Moon, but it's a sad thing to realize that due to the open world bullshit, we're seeing an entire generation of designers who just really lack even understanding the basics of how level design works.
And I mean, I've seen this stuff before. The games industry used to be full of people who knew how to paint, but since ZBrush and sculpting took over for character art, it's now pretty hard to find people who know how to properly paint textures. And I mean not in terms of tech, but in terms of Art.
I guess the market just gets what the market wants. Japan is a bit different, usually they don't do open world stuff and usually their games don't try to be massive systemic experiences that take 50+ hours to finish. At that level, knowing how to make things tight is far more important.
What I find interesting is that - And I'm just guessing here - due to most western studios nowadays thinking that Open World is the pinnacle of level design, it's surprisingly hard to find level designers out there that actually know what they're doing. Sculpting some terrain and then having to fill it up with content is a completely different discipline than actually properly grayboxing every inch of an experience in the way Nintendo, From, etc. do it.
Y'all would be surprised how many designers in this industry with 10+ years of experience don't even know the basics of level design. They all think they do, of course, but once you put them to a test, it's very obvious that this skill has almost gone missing. I would bet that if you'd have some of the 'best' designers out there trying to make a 3d Mario level, they'd fail on oh so many levels... there's still a few great ones out there and usually we gobble those up at Moon, but it's a sad thing to realize that due to the open world bullshit, we're seeing an entire generation of designers who just really lack even understanding the basics of how level design works.
And I mean, I've seen this stuff before. The games industry used to be full of people who knew how to paint, but since ZBrush and sculpting took over for character art, it's now pretty hard to find people who know how to properly paint textures. And I mean not in terms of tech, but in terms of Art.
I guess the market just gets what the market wants. Japan is a bit different, usually they don't do open world stuff and usually their games don't try to be massive systemic experiences that take 50+ hours to finish. At that level, knowing how to make things tight is far more important.
100%. shit is stupid, just appreciate the breadth of great stuff we get every year.
They never needed surpassing as Japanese devs were always better imo. Just the west has casualised games more so you see them more and marketed better maybe.
I have to echo those who feel that members tend to have a very narrow view of what is: "Good gameplay" as it really does boil down to: "Third Person Action Game" and looks at only a few quantities. Like slowness is usually considered "bad" for some nebulous reason, though that thankfully is becoming less used.
Nah but they are getting there. They had damn near an entire generation where they just couldn't do right and kept fucking up. They have done a great job with getting up to speed with current tech and such and I expect them to keep improving
^ Also compare Japanese games that are said to have good writing to the ones in the west. The gap is hilarious. You aren't getting Disco Elysium from Japan anytime soon. Shouts out to fromsoft tho. If you read what is there and piece it together , it's pretty good.
Yeah, this thread feels really condescending.
Not to mention FF7r isn't even out yet and seems to ship with only half the game.
Pretty much the same here!
As far I'm concerned, gaming was always synonym of Japanese developers, studios and publishers first and foremost.. with a few (really) good western made games here and there
Topics like these are the real reason I feel embarrassed to call myself a gamer.
The insistence on drawing a weird racial line between video game developers while also downplaying the effort and experience that specific Japanese game creators have attained over their lifetime. And that's before getting into all the amazing western games as well.
The insistence on drawing a weird racial line between video game developers while also downplaying the effort and experience that specific Japanese game creators have attained over their lifetime. And that's before getting into all the amazing western games as well.
Yep, this perfectly exemplifies the issue. Or at least the issue people who tend to prefer japanese games see. It may not be an issue to people who do find said open world titles far more engaging.
But for my money, I'm really glad you guys are keeping the level design torch lit. I tend to be a more combat oriented player, but as far as platforming goes, Ori is BY FAR the best metroidvania title I've ever played. Plenty of exhilarating challenges that made for some of the most memorable levels in the genre, even though I'm not much of a platformer player myself.
I'm also glad that apparently the developers who are indeed the exception in this vision some of us have of the industry seem to be aware of the reasons behind it, and also aware that they're exceptions themselves.
I love games from all regions, but for my personal preferences in games, no. I'd most likely take stuff like The Last of Us, God of War, Grand Theft Auto, Uncharted, The Witcher, Red Dead Redemption, Spiderman, Destiny, Halo, Horizon Zero Dawn, Gears etc over the said and other Japanese games if I was really forced to make a decision, and likewise with picking games like Cyberpunk and The Last of Us 2 over Final Fantasy Remake etc. That said, why even make the distinction? I'd say there's an abundance of quality from all regions.
amen.
PS3 was dark times for Japan but they quickly recovered this gen
first of all, this is my opinion, there is no objectivity in here. some people just love jp games, some only shooters, and some, they care about everything.
i care about good games, but i rarely see good games from europe.
i did not know, that batman and forza horizon-series are being developed in EU. same
and gta5 is from the US, isnt it?
It's obviously all a case of preferences, but with exception of crpgs, I ALWAYS liked japanese output. Only time they were struggling imo, is where they were trying to mimick western approach. So, if you are into japanese game design, especially for action games, they always were better to you.
I believe it was primarily developed by Rockstar North, based in Edinburgh.
This is murky because there's a bunch of studios that worked on GTA but Rockstar North is based in Scottland.
This makes 0 sense, because YOU DON'T WANT to see good games from Europe, it's different.
And there's a big difference between saying that you don't like western/eu games and that there are not good games made by EU devs, the former is an opinion, the latter is a false statement.
Disco Elysium is not the norm. Most western games have just "okay" or bad writing, like japanese games.
Oh word ? I can think about a bunch of reasons way, way, way more embarrassing when it comes to gamers.
If you don't care about first person shooters, third person shooters, indie or strategy games, I guess.
Also, Japanese games are extremely lacking when it comes to multiplayer. Pretty much none of the popular online competitive games are from Japan.
So this thread gets a big yikes from me for people being so limited with their genre choices.
Also, Japanese games are extremely lacking when it comes to multiplayer. Pretty much none of the popular online competitive games are from Japan.
So this thread gets a big yikes from me for people being so limited with their genre choices.
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It's a good discussion to have,but then you have to post hyperbolic nonsense like this to try and get your point across.
Edit : So I realise that was just your experience with western games...so that's fair enough then.
Writing is not even a priority in most Japanese games. They focus more on interactivity and gameplay. Besides, for good writing, if that's what I'm looking for, video games aren't where I'd be looking.
