• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Nov 8, 2017
334
Happy for their success but really annoying how broken the game feels in local splitscreen, and single player menus on base consoles. Figure it was a publisher thing, needing to get the game out by a certain date, but who knows. Somewhat broken games on launch always sucks.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Ah yes, they should have used future sight to get data on sales that didnt exist yet
You're thinking I was talking about five days for Borderlands 3, and not what it was really about: An unspecified five days of sales comparison for Borderlands 2 sales figures. You're missing the point entirely and this is precisely why they can put this exact sort of thing in these releases and get away with it. People just ignore what is said and the context. It's carefully worded for this exact reason. It's literally their job.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,256
You're thinking I was talking about five days for Borderlands 3, and not what it was really about: An unspecified five days of sales comparison for Borderlands 2 sales figures. You're missing the point entirely and this is precisely why they can put this exact sort of thing in these releases and get away with it. People just ignore what is said and the context. It's carefully worded for this exact reason. It's literally their job.
It's not that unspecific, the PR statement basically says that if you take any 5 days of bl2 sales then bl3 beat that in its 5 day launch period.

Within its first five days of launch, 50 percent more consumers purchased Borderlands 3 versus sales of its predecessor – Borderlands 2 – making the title the fastest-selling in 2K's history, as well as the highest-selling title for the label on PC in a five-day window
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,165
i like to imagine zips's profile picture is him reading the press release

but yeah, I'm not seeing any wording in the press release that indicates what they are comparing with when it comes to BL2 sales
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
That is certainly a way of looking at it, which is precisely what they bank on when writing this kind of stuff up.
What were they otherwise supposed to say 7 days after release, if not to state that the game comfortably beat its predecessor's launch? No one expected BL3 to beat lifetime BL2 sales in a week.
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,165
it is likely that it means exactly what most ppl think, but I don't begrudge ppl feeling like it should be more specific and it makes perfect sense that ppl who dislike the company would jump on that, iunno. in any case, the real things to focus on imo are the amnt of digital sales + it's status as EGS's flagship title and their biggest success. we can use this game as an indicator of what a AAA success looks like on EGS, see how it does on it's eventual release on Steam, and see if it spurs more Unreal Engine AAAs towards the store.
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
I'm curious if the EGS exclusive payment was considered sold-in, and added skew to PC sales numbers and digital %.
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,940
Cornfields
The 'mainstream' audiences aren't buying Borderlands on PC though. The people who actually care about this stuff are a very, very vocal relatively minority on internet message boards and social spaces. The data (and common sense) makes that pretty damn clear.
11m of the 23m that bought it aren't mainstream. You heard it right here.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,498

Ask them yourself.

11m of the 23m that bought it aren't mainstream. You heard it right here.

Question - what are you defining as main stream? Demographics are a thing. I think you'll find that the PC market buying games like this have a higher concentration of 'hardcore' gamers than console. My point being that I don't think hardcore gamers care much about store fronts either. It's, again, a very vocal subset of enthusiasts on the internet that care. The sales speak for themselves, no?

Not involving in discussion on Era or Reddit doesn't make you mainstream.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
You still havent said how it's spin to say bl3 outsold bl2 in any 5 day window.
"Borderlands 3 PC outsold Borderlands 2 in the same five day window specific to September 19, 2019 through September 23, 2019." See? That would probably be true. That gives a clear window of time for both games. However, they do not specify what 5 day window they're talking about for Borderland's 2 sales in the actual release. It's intentionally vague. That's the point. That's literally the entire point.
What were they otherwise supposed to say 7 days after release, if not to state that the game comfortably beat its predecessor's launch? No one expected BL3 to beat lifetime BL2 sales in a week.
I can't tell anymore if some of you people are being intentionally obtuse or not.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,256
"Borderlands 3 PC outsold Borderlands 2 in the same five day window specific to September 19, 2019 through September 23, 2019." See? That would probably be true. That gives a clear window of time for both games. However, they do not specify what 5 day window they're talking about for Borderland's 2 sales in the actual release. It's intentionally vague. That's the point. That's literally the entire point.

I can't tell anymore if some of you people are being intentionally obtuse or not.
Im gonna be honest here. It honestly does not matter what 5 day period it is when it comes to bl2. Bl2 took a month and a half to get to 5m, bl3 did that in 5 days. And further more, that was 5m shipped for bl2. You can pick any 5 day period in the last 7 years and it will not have a higher sold in than bl3.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,829
The way some people try to spin this as a negative in this thread is hillarious.

Anyway, good on Gearbox and 2K, Borderlands isn't my jam but it's always great to see this kind of success.
 

Zips

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
Im gonna be honest here. It honestly does not matter what 5 day period it is when it comes to bl2. Bl2 took a month and a half to get to 5m, bl3 did that in 5 days. And further more, that was 5m shipped for bl2. You can pick any 5 day period in the last 7 years and it will not have a higher sold in than bl3.
Then it's still a throwaway "fact." It's only purpose is to sound good without any context, which people will obviously lap up wholesale. Without context it's meaningless. It's fluff.
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
"Borderlands 3 PC outsold Borderlands 2 in the same five day window specific to September 19, 2019 through September 23, 2019." See? That would probably be true. That gives a clear window of time for both games. However, they do not specify what 5 day window they're talking about for Borderland's 2 sales in the actual release. It's intentionally vague. That's the point. That's literally the entire point.

I can't tell anymore if some of you people are being intentionally obtuse or not.
Come on buddy. They clearly mean the first 5 days of BL2 on sale, not any arbitrary 5-day window. Unless you seriously believe there was another window where BL2 could have possibly sold 67% of what BL3 sold in its first 5 days.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,905
Come on buddy. They clearly mean the first 5 days of BL2 on sale, not any arbitrary 5-day window. Unless you seriously believe there was another window where BL2 could have possibly sold 67% of what BL3 sold in its first 5 days.
Like when the Handsome Collection was on sale for PC everywhere for like $2 and everyone bought it?

The thing is: the whole sales statement is incredibly vague on many levels.

We don't even know if they counted actual EGS sales or the guaranteed sales by Epic. It would make sense to count the guaranteed - but not actual - sales because 2K refers to their numbers as sell-in (which indicates that the copies didn't get sold to customers) and it would also explain the high amount of 70% digital sales.

You really think that had such a great effect that it made the game sell more in its launch month? :lol. Game had already been on sale multiple times for years for $5 anyway
The user asked for another possible window and yeah, there were additional windows for possible selling records even after the first release. Also nobody is talking about "launch month" but we're talking about this specific 5-days period. You're welcome to join the discussion if you want to.
 
Last edited:

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,256
Like when the Handsome Collection was on sale for PC everywhere for like $2 and everyone bought it?

The thing is: the whole sales statement is incredibly vague on many levels.

We don't even know if they counted actual EGS sales or the guaranteed sales by Epic. It would make sense to count the guaranteed - but not actual - sales because 2K refers to their numbers as sell-in (which indicates that the copies didn't get sold to customers) and it would also explain the high amount of 70% digital sales.
You really think that had such a great effect that it made the game sell more in its launch month? :lol. Game had already been on sale multiple times for years for $5 anyway
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,799


For those that can't see the tweet, Epic is increasing the cut they pay to streamers for promoting Borderlands 3 from 5% to 20% until September 30. In my opinion, this would seem to suggest that sales of the game on EGS aren't as great as was suggested.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974


For those that can't see the tweet, Epic is increasing the cut they pay to streamers for promoting Borderlands 3 from 5% to 20% until September 30. In my opinion, this would seem to suggest that sales of the game on EGS aren't as great as was suggested.


Didn't they already do this for another game? Not the first time I saw those numbers. Isn't this also a percentage of the game's sale (from the 88%) going to the streamer, or am I misunderstanding it?
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,799
Didn't they already do this for another game? Not the first time I saw those numbers. Isn't this also a percentage of the game's sale (from the 88%) going to the streamer, or am I misunderstanding it?

I do believe they did this for another game but I can't remember which. I assume the percentage is from the game's listed price which Epic pays out of its own pocket. If the game hasn't yet surpassed the number of copies that Epic prepaid then this 20% is entirely out of Epic's pocket. Is it has surpassed that threshold then Epic is paying creators the 12% it receives from every sale and an extra 8% out of its own pocket.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,304
I do believe they did this for another game but I can't remember which. I assume the percentage is from the game's listed price which Epic pays out of its own pocket. If the game hasn't yet surpassed the number of copies that Epic prepaid then this 20% is entirely out of Epic's pocket. Is it has surpassed that threshold then Epic is paying creators the 12% it receives from every sale and an extra 8% out of its own pocket.


Except one thing: As those as copies they bought, Epic is getting 100% here. So 80%.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164


For those that can't see the tweet, Epic is increasing the cut they pay to streamers for promoting Borderlands 3 from 5% to 20% until September 30. In my opinion, this would seem to suggest that sales of the game on EGS aren't as great as was suggested.


Far more likely that they're doing this to capitalize on Borderlands 3 success to dramatically promote the EGS.

it's an effective marketing trick to get more users. See also Microsoft offering Gamepass signup subs for $1 right before releasing a highly anticipated AAA game.
 

Truant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,758
I just requested a refund due to the stuttering on PC. I hope the game runs better on those other millions of computers.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,799
Far more likely that they're doing this to capitalize on Borderlands 3 success to dramatically promote the EGS.

it's an effective marketing trick to get more users. See also Microsoft offering Gamepass signup subs for $1 right before releasing a highly anticipated AAA game.

Didn't we get news a few days a go that Bordelands 3 had lost most of its streamer audience? I don't think that the available data supports your theory but I wouldn't dismiss it either.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Didn't we get news a few days a go that Bordelands 3 had lost most of its streamer audience? I don't think that the available data supports your theory but I wouldn't dismiss it either.


...and this doesn't tell you that a more generous split to streamers is a good way to get them back on board?

I'm still nonplussed how you're extrapolating this to assume poor sales on the EGS, vs a marketing move by Epic to get more eyeballs on the store.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,799
...and this doesn't tell you that a more generous split to streamers is a good way to get them back on board?

I'm still nonplussed how you're extrapolating this to assume poor sales on the EGS, vs a marketing move by Epic to get more eyeballs on the store.

In my mind it's a logical answer to the question "why would a company be trying to artificially boost sales of a supposedly super successful game".
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
In my mind it's a logical answer to the question "why would a company be trying to artificially boost sales of a supposedly super successful game".

then you're thinking about this completely wrong.
Everything Epic is doing - paying for game exclusivity, their sale period, scraping Steam lists Etc - is all geared towards boosting their store. Getting more people to stream an EGS exclusive game is a great way to drive more customers to the EGS.

they want users. Simple as that. And the more people they can reach via influencers, the better their signup rates will be.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
then you're thinking about this completely wrong.
Everything Epic is doing - paying for game exclusivity, their sale period, scraping Steam lists Etc - is all geared towards boosting their store. Getting more people to stream an EGS exclusive game is a great way to drive more customers to the EGS.

they want users. Simple as that. And the more people they can reach via influencers, the better their signup rates will be.

then why not do it from the start?
 

Csr

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,029
I can't imagine that they would make such a move if the game was still selling like hotcakes.
Isn't the whole point of twitch views to increase sales and to get more customers on their store? if sales aren't slowing down and are above expectations what is the incentive to lower their cut or change anything about what they are doing?
My guess is a bigger slowdown than they expect and maybe even testing grounds for this support-a-creator program.
 
Last edited:

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,799
then you're thinking about this completely wrong.

I don't believe so.

Everything Epic is doing - paying for game exclusivity, their sale period, scraping Steam lists Etc - is all geared towards boosting their store. Getting more people to stream an EGS exclusive game is a great way to drive more customers to the EGS.

they want users. Simple as that. And the more people they can reach via influencers, the better their signup rates will be.

Everyone already knows what you just said. It's common knowledge. We disagree on the reason why Epic is taking that extra step of paying more money to streamers to push the EGS version through them. You think it's because the game is a massive success on EGS and they want to strike while the iron is hot. I think that the game is not moving as many units through EGS as expected and they want to push it by getting streamers to advertise that specific version.
 

ChrisJSY

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,053
Epic has proved the concept.
I predict that Steam will become more and more irrelevant unless they do something drastic.


Which concept is that? The one where if I wanted to play a certain game I either don't buy it, or buy it on a platform that doesn't fully support my regions taxation and economy? Is it the one where they throw boat loads of money to entice a dev/pub to sell on their platform? That money power isn't going to last forever.

I don't mind EGS though, personally - because if there's a game I REALLY want to play I'll do it, however I've yet to actually buy anything on EGS it's all free games they were giving away and out of all of them I've only played one. I'll give borderlands a try when it comes down in price, gets patched, probably has some dlc and likely by that point is on steam, so I'll have a choice and out of the two I'd rather go with the one I know than the one I don't.

Some games that are on my list? I'll have to because my monkey brain is impatient.
 

admataY

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,789
Maybe if we will look at this THIS way , we can sooth the pain of the game not failing . If we pretzel ourselves hard enough, hang on to every little morsel of non related data, we can prove the game have failed and the beast that is EGS is finally slain .


In the mean tine, im just playing the game, which in my opinion is a cool and good game , and with me ATLEAST a handful other players , but if all this mental gymnastic is your way of having fun , who am I to deny you .
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,799
then why not do it from the start?
I can't imagine that they would make such a move if the game was still selling like hotcakes.
Isn't the whole point of twitch views is to increase sales and to get more customers on their store? if sales aren't slowing down and are above expectations what is the incentive to lower their cut or changing anything about what they are doing?
My guess is a bigger slowdown than they expect and maybe even testing grounds for this support-a-creator program.

Yeah, I think these are reasonable questions to ask.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
then why not do it from the start?

that's like asking why MS didn't offer $1 Gamepass subs or the conversion of Gold to Gamepass Ultimate from the start.

Marketing is a dynamic process. You try stuff, evaluate, refine, iterate.


I think that the game is not moving as many units through EGS as expected and they want to push it by getting streamers to advertise that specific version.

We can agree to disagree, then.

I will add that there's precedence supporting my Viewpoint. Epic has a history of paying money to get users. For example, paying good money to give users free games every month just to drive eyes to their store.