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Lazybob

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,710
Weird thing about this devaluation conversation: I have bought maybe ONE PC game in the last 3 years -- new or pre-order -- that wasn't at least 20% off. $10 off MSRP is the standard for games in the $50-$90 USD range on PC.

Examples:

Very new -
https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/rage-2-pc/ - Rage 2 (18% off, or ~$10 off)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/mortal-kombat-11-pc/ - MK 11 (25% off)

Pre-orders -
https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/warhammer-chaosbane-magnus-edition-pc/ - Warhammer (18% off or ~$12 off)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/the-elder-scrolls-online-elsweyr-pc/ - ESO: Elsweyr (18% off or ~$11 off)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-pc/ - Vampire Bloodlines 2 (15% off or ~$10 off)


And there are more where that came from. And if you're a VIP on GMG (https://www.greenmangaming.com/vip/vip-deals/ ), just about everything is *at least* 20% off. That's not always $10, but its a solid discount nonetheless. Full price, $60 games are almost always available for $10 off a few times before launch, then usually shortly after launch too.

-

I guess I'm just surprised that some of these developers/publishers with full-priced offerings are averse to the EGS discount when these discounts are quite common on PC, new or pre-order AND they're not losing any cut. To say nothing of discounts from places like CDKeys. For games that are suddenly $6 I understand. But for games that go from $60 -> $50 or similar? I don't really understand. Most people aren't going to drop full-price MSRP for your games on PC anyway.
Maybe its just the regional prices that are their issue? Otherwise I agree I don't understand the issue.

Wouldn't be surprised if the games removed are back on EGS prior top the sale ending if EGS rushes to add a way to exempt games from the discount.
 

Resiverence

Member
Jan 30, 2019
517
Weird thing about this devaluation conversation: I have bought maybe ONE PC game in the last 3 years -- new or pre-order -- that wasn't at least 20% off. $10 off MSRP is the standard for games in the $50-$90 USD range on PC.

Examples:

Very new -
https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/rage-2-pc/ - Rage 2 (18% off, or ~$10 off)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/mortal-kombat-11-pc/ - MK 11 (25% off)

Pre-orders -
https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/warhammer-chaosbane-magnus-edition-pc/ - Warhammer (18% off or ~$12 off)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/the-elder-scrolls-online-elsweyr-pc/ - ESO: Elsweyr (18% off or ~$11 off)

https://www.greenmangaming.com/games/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2-pc/ - Vampire Bloodlines 2 (15% off or ~$10 off)


And there are more where that came from. And if you're a VIP on GMG (https://www.greenmangaming.com/vip/vip-deals/ ), just about everything is *at least* 20% off. That's not always $10, but its a solid discount nonetheless. Full price, $60 games are almost always available for $10 off a few times before launch, then usually shortly after launch too.

-

I guess I'm just surprised that some of these developers/publishers with full-priced offerings are averse to the EGS discount when these discounts are quite common on PC, new or pre-order AND they're not losing any cut. To say nothing of discounts from places like CDKeys. For games that are suddenly $6 I understand. But for games that go from $60 -> $50 or similar? I don't really understand. Most people aren't going to drop full-price MSRP for your games on PC anyway.
The whole point is that rate based discounts function differently than a flat $ cut discount. Flat 20% discounts are even in every region - 10$ discount in a country with close to normal dollar valuation is different from a 10$ discount with a much higher valuation for the dollar compared to local currency.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
The whole point is that rate based discounts function differently than a flat $ cut discount. Flat 20% discounts are even in every region - 10$ discount in a country with close to normal dollar valuation is different from a 10$ discount with a much higher valuation for the dollar compared to local currency.

ANd lets not ignore how the sale thread is full of people talking about VPNs to go to regional stores like Russia to get a over the top deal.


is Sergei going to claim he is mis-translated again? as if no one else in the entire industry knows how to speak Russian?
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
The whole point is that rate based discounts function differently than a flat $ cut discount. Flat 20% discounts are even in every region - 10$ discount in a country with close to normal dollar valuation is different from a 10$ discount with a much higher valuation for the dollar compared to local currency.
Sure, my thoughts were specifically with regard to NA pricing. I thought that was fairly clear, but perhaps not.

So we're seeing this issue because Epic failed to account for the impact of a flat discount in their newly-added regions? lol.
 

Resiverence

Member
Jan 30, 2019
517
Sure, my thoughts were specifically with regard to NA pricing. I thought that was fairly clear, but perhaps not.

So we're seeing this issue because Epic failed to account for the impact of a flat discount in their newly-added regions? lol.
That or they didn't really inform the publishers on how the sale worked which has caused them to pull their games after finding out.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
The best explanation I can think of is that Epic Store is not for for purpose.
What purpose? Guessing there is a typo there, but i cant figure out what it should be instead :)


Just a matter of prioritizing other things over adding a shopping cart. It doesn't have many games so that was likely considered low priority. Not defending it just explaining the logic.
Yeah, maybe that could be why.


They are not focussed on consumers and more focused on getting Publishers and Proven indies on their side and being the only store in town to buy them. If they were focused on consumers as their road to success, they would have done... oh, practically everything different.
Maybe things would be different indeed, although i think those who deal with exclusives and actual developement of the store are two different departments. While the company (Epic Games) as a whole have something to say, i'm not sure if its much overlap between those things (as in trying to get exclusives to their store hinders developement of the actual store).
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Maybe things would be different indeed, although i think those who deal with exclusives and actual developement of the store are two different departments. While the company (Epic Games) as a whole have something to say, i'm not sure if its much overlap between those things (as in trying to get exclusives to their store hinders developement of the actual store).
Yes, those are almost certainly different governing bodies. like 99.9%. I'm sure there is some overlap at the executive level, but not much I wouldn't think.
 

Carlius

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Nor did Valve when they started Steam, plus for many years after. I don't understand why people feel Epic should measure up to such an immediate standard, when Valve had plenty of issues with Steam for numerous years.
is this a serious reply? please be a troll reply..this is getting ridiculous. DIGITAL DISTRIBUTION is not SOMETHING NEW!!!!
it was when valve came in and they tried to establish something not very popular. Just like ORIGIN and UPLAY had absolutely NO FUCKING excuse to be so barebones, neither does fucking EGS, especially, when taking games from Steam is a PRIORITY to them over the consumer. Stop defending bullshit like this, cause its a new client. A new client launches with the basics, why do you not see this? its the same with a game like anthem, why settle with the bullshit they launched when looter shooters arent a new genre o new thing.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,325
Seattle
Already bought it myself and have no stake in "store wars", just seems like growing pains, they'll work it out.

The sale had good intent but people are thirsty to talk about this lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,971
Canada
Does this deserve a new thread? Since it's not fully related to BL3

https://www.resetera.com/threads/pa...m-egs-until-the-end-of-epic-mega-sale.117365/

?

It isn't on Epic if a dev promotes a sale then decides to pull their game off the store.

Its on Epic if they force discounts on every game in store and don't talk out the details of the sale with their devs before hand. Offering a $10USD discount flat regardless of currency also doesn't help.

2K never promoted this sale, Randy doesn't have any influence on the distribution of the game and his tweet doesnt really count.
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,616
Its on Epic if they don't talk out the details of the sale with their devs before hand.

I feel like that tweet from Randy is proof enough that they knew. Same for Supergiant.

Paradox didn't know about this sale though.

Edit: you stealth-edited your post :D I'm not seeing why his tweet doesn't count though.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,440
Calling devs greedy because they want control over setting their prices instead of Epic deciding to drop 10 bucks off of every game in the store is ridiculous.

Devs should have complete control of the pricing and if Epic decided this for them then it was just wrong.
 

yellow wallpaper

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 17, 2017
1,980
My first epic game store purchase. So lame it's taken down, but thankful it's still in my library. At $49 it was around the max I would pay for a new pc game anyways so I bit.
 

Chris.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,920
Calling devs greedy because they want control over setting their prices instead of Epic deciding to drop 10 bucks off of every game in the store is ridiculous.

Devs should have complete control of the pricing and if Epic decided this for them then it was just wrong.
Why?

This uses to happen all the time in the UK until about 3 years ago. Games would be £55/£60 in GAME and Xbox store but if you went to a supermarket you could get it for £30-£40. Nobody ever complained about that or stopped shipping supermarkets games.

Letting publishers control the prices is how you get £60 games that never drop in price (see Nintendo prices)

As far as I'm concerned epic done nothing wrong. They are well within their right to take a loss on a product.
 
OP
OP
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
Were Ubi games on sale though ? I heard those were pulled off before the sale.
LVlTrI6.png
 

Khamsinvera

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,580
I really hope that Epic gets its shit together, stops crappy business practices like money-hatting releases, adds achievements and a functional shopping cart and ...

Oh well, who am I kidding :P
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,616
OP
OP
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
... Did it occur at the same time or did it happen before the sale ? I was told the latter :P

And I'm not seeing those various incompetent things you're talking about by the way. They didn't talk about the sale to Paradox and that's pretty much it. Unless the same thing happened with Klei ?
The sale is happening now. Ubisoft games are removed from the store now. Now is the same time as now.

They created a scenario where the likes of Paradox and Klei would prefer to remove their games from the store rather than participate in a sale.

They created a scenario where Supergiant were compelled to engage in a whole load of price fuckery.

And there's the Borderlands stuff that this thread is about.

Rival stores like Steam, GOG, Humble etc are capable of coordinating a sale with none of these problems. Often including games from the same publishers that are having problems with the Epic sale.

Edit: and Ubisoft store pages advertised the sale price, despite being unable to be purchased.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,440
Why?

This uses to happen all the time in the UK until about 3 years ago. Games would be £55/£60 in GAME and Xbox store but if you went to a supermarket you could get it for £30-£40. Nobody ever complained about that or stopped shipping supermarkets games.

Letting publishers control the prices is how you get £60 games that never drop in price (see Nintendo prices)

As far as I'm concerned epic done nothing wrong. They are well within their right to take a loss on a product.

But when you ship a physical game there's an understanding of that. Devs sell their games to the store and then the store does as it pleases.

In this case Epic hasn't bought stock to sell in their store. These aren't physical goods and physical goods rules should not be applied.

And I believe that devs should have full control. If they want the game to be 60 forever then so be it. It's their damn game.
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
Why?

This uses to happen all the time in the UK until about 3 years ago. Games would be £55/£60 in GAME and Xbox store but if you went to a supermarket you could get it for £30-£40. Nobody ever complained about that or stopped shipping supermarkets games.

Letting publishers control the prices is how you get £60 games that never drop in price (see Nintendo prices)

As far as I'm concerned epic done nothing wrong. They are well within their right to take a loss on a product.
Read my first post earlier in the thread.
Epic does NOT own the digital copies of third-party games they sell on the store, so they do not have the right to change the pricing without agreement from the IP owners.
This is what it means to sell digital media.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,578
Thanks :)

Has there been any explanation why there arent a shopping cart? Some of the stuff above is understandable for currently lacking i think but a shopping cart is a pretty basic feature for a store.
No explanation but the shopping cart is currently slated for 2020. A lot of things to look forward to.

Generally speaking, i think its fair enough to not expect the same level of quality out the game from someone who isnt as experienced as others in the same field.

Generally, I'd agree when it comes to certain things but not simplistic things such as shopping carts, sales and store pages. Not from a billion dollar company.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,315
So has Gearbox given a reason for what happened yet? Apologies if I missed it. This is so bizarre.

Are the differences really that big? Is there a chart of features comparing EGS to Steam?
It was already answered, but for me, the following are features I use and rely on constantly:
- shopping cart (lol)
- wishlist
- cloud saves
- gifting (this wasn't mentioned in other lists I think, but it's pretty important to me)
- universal controller support (absolutely mandatory for me)
- family sharing (same as above, I can share my library with my SO and vice-versa)

A billion-dollar company not even having a shopping cart, wishlist and gifting is, well, really sad.
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,616
The sale is happening now. Ubisoft games are removed from the store now. Now is the same time as now.

They created a scenario where the likes of Paradox and Klei would prefer to remove their games from the store rather than participate in a sale.

They created a scenario where Supergiant were compelled to engage in a whole load of price fuckery.

And there's the Borderlands stuff that this thread is about.

Rival stores like Steam, GOG, Humble etc are capable of coordinating a sale with none of these problems. Often including games from the same publishers that are having problems with the Epic sale.

Edit: and Ubisoft store pages advertised the sale price, despite being unable to be purchased.

Just checked and Ubi games were pulled off one week ago from EGS (like Ryna said) while this sale started two days ago (17th).

And you keep putting the blame on Epic for things that aren't on them, Paradox being the exception.

Klei: nobody knows what happened at the moment.

Paradox: Epic forgot to tell them about this sale.

Supergiant: they talked about the sale and fixed the price in some countries so that people would be able to have that 10€ discount. They changed the price multiple times afterwards.

BL3: sale promoted by the developer. No word from the publisher yet.

The store isn't the best, we can agree on that at least.
 
OP
OP
LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,094
Just checked and Ubi games were pulled off one week ago from EGS (like Ryna said) while this sale started two days ago (17th).

And you keep putting the blame on Epic for things that aren't on them, Paradox being the exception.

Klei: nobody knows what happened at the moment.

Paradox: Epic forgot to tell them about this sale.

Supergiant: they talked about the sale and fixed the price in some countries so that people would be able to have that 10€ discount. They changed the price multiple times afterwards.

BL3: sale promoted by the developer. No word from the publisher yet.

The store isn't the best, we can agree on that at least.
So Epic is not responsible for managing the Epic Store Epic Mega Sale?
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,271
Considering how popular achievements are there definitely is a need. If I have the option to buy on a platform with achievements damn right im taking it.
I wouldn't call it a need. Achievements have never once dictated a purchase either way for me. I don't think I've ever even really paid attention to them except when they're used in a quirky way(like Portal 2, The Part Where He Kills You). To each his own but it seems like kind of a silly thing to prioritize.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
I have to say I'm kinda shocked at the end of all of this. If you had told me last week that people would be upset if a major storefront was doing a store-wide sale that equally cut prices at a global level that still pays every dev full credit (regional pricing is an issue, but not really that much of one in practice), I could not have believed that. I get the issues, but I'm still shocked.

Devaluation is such an abstract concept, that I have hard time conceptualizing how it weighs against the clear consumer benefits of actual saved money and publisher benefit of actual money coming in. Have we come to the point where every game is such a GAAS monstrosity that ONLY long tail sales matter now? Have we stopped caring about preorders or something? It's so weird to be spiting clear benefit in the present for fear of 100% theoretical losses in the future?

I guess I'm just off base. I'm sure it feels bad to not be in control of your price, but..
 

VallenValiant

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,598
I have to say I'm kinda shocked at the end of all of this. If you had told me last week that people would be upset if a major storefront was doing a store-wide sale that equally cut prices at a global level that still pays every dev full credit (regional pricing is an issue, but not really that much of one in practice), I could not have believed that. I get the issues, but I'm still shocked.

Devaluation is such an abstract concept, that I have hard time conceptualizing how it weighs against the clear consumer benefits of actual saved money and publisher benefit of actual money coming in. Have we come to the point where every game is such a GAAS monstrosity that ONLY long tail sales matter now? Have we stopped caring about preorders or something? It's so weird to be spiting clear benefit in the present for fear of 100% theoretical losses in the future?

I guess I'm just off base. I'm sure it feels bad to not be in control of your price, but..
You missed the point. Consumers like sales. But consumers don't like it when a game that is currently exclusive to one store, suddenly got taken off the store for an indetermant period of time and not available to anyone. And all because the store was incompetent and both didn't do their jobs at informing the game studios in advance, and have a storefront so badly coded that the only way to be excluded from discount sale is to not sell it at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,971
Canada
I wouldn't call it a need. Achievements have never once dictated a purchase either way for me. I don't think I've ever even really paid attention to them except when they're used in a quirky way(like Portal 2, The Part Where He Kills You). To each his own but it seems like kind of a silly thing to prioritize.

They give me replay value and extra challenges and I enjoy collecting them a lot, and considering how there are several achievement/trophy tracking sites with a shitton of users who are way more hardcore about them than I am, Its definitely a need for a lot of people.

Its one of the reasons I have no interest in using EGS (on top of lack of currency conversion for my country, lack of cloud saving, poor security, and several other reasons.)