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bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,888
Its been a long time since I cared about James Bond.

I just want a good movie and honestly it needs a total reimagining. Changing James Bond is probably a good start.

Most people are going to absolute hate it as the franchise is almost 60 years old, but whatever they are doing is not working.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Question - is the idea that James Bond/007 is a code and character that changes person confirmed in universe lore, or is it just assumed?

In the books it is definitively one man, and over in film from Connery up to Brosnan is all one man.

Sometimes this is more explicit - so we see both Connery and Moore actively reference their dead wife, Tracy - who was killed in Lazenby's single film. Moore even visits her grave in one film.

Dalton and Brosnan don't directly reference Tracy (which makes sense - referencing an event from a 1969 film in 1997 feels nuts), but there's nods in dialogue and their performances (like slightly sad stony-faced stares when asked if he's ever been in love/married) that are veiled keeping of that continuity. You've also got stuff like Brosnan being in possession of the Goldfinger car at the start of GoldenEye, or him using some of the Connery-era gadgets in Die Another Day. In the end, they just sort of had this continuity but made Bond a man out of time in that he never aged, and the characters around him were recast or their roles adjusted when they got too old; so Q is more of a father figure to Brosnan and Dalton than he was to the others, and Moneypenny was recast et.c

With Craig's Bond it becomes more complicated, because Casino Royale was sold as an outright reboot of the series, so everything from the past was jettisoned and considered a separate 'lore'. But then three films in they started breaking the rule a little... so Craig has the Goldfinger car, complete with gadgets (which suggests that the old Q existed before Craig's day?), and it appears in this new film he's also going to have one of Dalton's old cars, an 80s Aston. It's these things, post-reboot, that have given some the cause to speculate that maybe going forward James Bond will be a codename granted to a new agent.
 
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Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,092
I think the first two are a given. He pretty much quit at the end of Spectre when he went off with Swann. I expect her to be offed pretty sharpish to get him back into the fray.

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That plot line has already been done by another spy film, Bourne Supremacy. I hope they don't rehash this tired plot device of fridging the love interest at the beginning of a film.
 

iswasdoes

Member
Nov 13, 2017
3,084
Londinium
It would be a bit strange if Bond retired and MI6 replaced him with a black woman also called James Bond.

Sorry I didn't even see the last one so didn't know he had retired

So that means if the character James Bond still exists in this universe then this person can't 'be' James Bond? And so she will be another agent, possibly called 007, but not literally taking the same role, and James Bond is still a separate character in the film?

Have I totally missed the point?
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,598
It seems like a 're-do' of what they tried in Skyfall on the face of it, with Naomie Harris' character being a field agent. They could probably do better justice to that idea.

It's hard to get a sense of how big an element in the film this is intended to be, but giving her the 007 codename doesn't give me confidence that the plot won't be resolved with a "You're the real 007, Bond", or Bond validating the title - it gets equally tiring when the apex of a black character's arc is being bestowed the legacy/title of a white character.

I think it's a uphill battle whenever you try to build a character in the shadow of a popular, recognised one, but hopefully they pull something interesting off.
 
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Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,020
AnxiousSilentBlackfootedferret-size_restricted.gif


That plot line has already been done by another spy film, Bourne Supremacy. I hope they don't rehash this tired plot device of fridging the love interest at the beginning of a film.

I know, it's a tired trope. However I'm struggling to see why else she'd be in the film. Would they really have a film where Bond's in a good relationship throughout? Alternatively if they've broken up then do they need the character in there?
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
AnxiousSilentBlackfootedferret-size_restricted.gif


That plot line has already been done by another spy film, Bourne Supremacy. I hope they don't rehash this tired plot device of fridging the love interest at the beginning of a film.

Not that it isn't a tired-ass trope, but let's not credit Bourne...

I mean, that plot device was used in On Her Majesty's Secret Service & You Only Live Twice, which were published in 1963 and 1964 and then adapted into film in 1969. Spectre is essentially a soft remake of OHMSS (and they know this - they even used the OHMSS theme in the trailers), but the one bit of it that isn't there is the death of Tracy/Madeline at the end, and as soon as Spectre released a lot of people speculated that'd be bumped up to be the pre-credits sequence of the next film. So this is less Bond cribbing from Bourne and more the writers (for better and worse) returning to Fleming's source, which they've done a lot throughout Craig's run as the character.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,597
I guess this makes sense. I've been saying for a while they can't just recast Bond like they did in the past because they built up such a intricate backstory and lore for Craig Bond and I can't see them throwing that away. They also wouldn't 'reboot' because rebooting would be a lame thing to do and it's not like James Bond is still a huge name in cinema anno 2019. Doing it this way allows them to continue the Craig-timeline without actually including Craig.

Of course I can already hear the usual voices on the internet complain, but it makes a hell of a lot more sense to do it this way instead of making a 'Jane Bond'.
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,625
I think it's pretty obvious what needs to happen with Bond after this film.

You give Chris Nolan whatever he wants to make the next 3 films. Any Bond, whether Tom Hardy or Rihanna.
 
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Geoff

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
Sorry I didn't even see the last one so didn't know he had retired

So that means if the character James Bond still exists in this universe then this person can't 'be' James Bond? And so she will be another agent, possibly called 007, but not literally taking the same role, and James Bond is still a separate character in the film?

Have I totally missed the point?

You have it
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,092
I know, it's a tired trope. However I'm struggling to see why else she'd be in the film. Would they really have a film where Bond's in a good relationship throughout? Alternatively if they've broken up then do they need the character in there?

We've already had a film (a garbage one at that) where Craig Bond runs around angry, vengeful, and seeking out the killers of someone he loves. Here we go again I suppose 😒

Not that it isn't a tired-ass trope, but let's not credit Bourne...

I mean, that plot device was used in On Her Majesty's Secret Service & You Only Live Twice, which were published in 1963 and 1964 and then adapted into film in 1969. Spectre is essentially a soft remake of OHMSS (and they know this - they even used the OHMSS theme in the trailers), but the one bit of it that isn't there is the death of Tracy/Madeline at the end, and as soon as Spectre released a lot of people speculated that'd be bumped up to be the pre-credits sequence of the next film. So this is less Bond cribbing from Bourne and more the writers (for better and worse) returning to Fleming's source, which they've done a lot throughout Craig's run as the character.

I used Bourne as a recent example of spy film using that plot device. A spy franchise that has been continuously compared to the Crag era Bond films.
 
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Geoff

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
Gotcha. In that case I think the guardian is probably deliberately framing it that "James Bond is now a black woman" to drive the kind of gammon outrage this thread itself is also craving and get them those sweet clicks

And I don't know how helpful that is in the current climate, but that's off topic.

I am not craving gammon outrage. If I were I would not look for it on here of all places.
 

ManaByte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
Southern California
This is still clickbaiting the Daily Mail article that was locked yesterday.

They're clickbaiting the start of the movie and taking it out of context:

Lashana's character is the new "007" at the beginning of the movie when Bond is retired, but isn't his replacement in the series. Barbara Broccoli shot it down at the Bond 25 kickoff press conference:


Speaking from the film's launch event in Jamaica, Broccoli told Good Morning Britain: "I always feel that Bond is a male character, that is just a fact.

"We have to make movies about women and women's stories but we have to create female characters and not just for a gimmick turn a male character into a woman."

That's why Barbara Broccoli/Michael G. Wilson and EON Productions are making The Rhythm Section. It's their version of a "female Bond" and it's out later this year.

just start a new franchise

That's what EON is doing with The Rhythm Section.
 

Nikus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,362
I answered a few posts above.
Alright sorry, I don't know why I picked up on that but I often see you reply only with "why did you... ?" on random little details. But from everything I've read here you seem to be perfectly fluent so it seemed a bit weird.

Anyway, on topic, I love the idea of having both James Bond and a new 007 agent in a movie, especially if it shakes things up like this with more representation.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,842
Wouldn't it be wild if they kept the same personality, so 007 is a woman but somehow still misogynistic

Cool. I just realised is the name James Bond meant to be a designation too? Are all the James Bonds different people or are they all meant to be the same man? (Suspending disbelief in appearance/age/time)
In Skyfall it was his real name. Prior to that we all assumed it was a designation. It gets weird when M was the same actress for multiple Bonds
 
Nov 30, 2018
2,078
She's not taking over Bond.

Anybody can take the 007 title like the guy before James Bond in the film.

Nothing to be outraged over.
 

ManaByte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
Southern California

Deleted member 3183

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
This will never going to happen (as in a female lead Bond movie) just on the account that Bond's main advertiser are BMW, Austin Martin and luxury watches and shit. Now go to a magazine and see how many full page advertisement of these luxury goods use a black female model.

Yep. I enjoy the Bond movies, but they pretty much exist as a vessel to sell stuff to pudgy, middle aged men who want to fantasize about being Bond while working their management jobs. Omega Seamasters, Tom Ford sunglasses, Aston Martins, etc...

Their advertisers will go apeshit and I just can't see them doing it.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
At this point it just looks like a plot device. Bond leaves MI6, black woman replaces him, ???, Bond comes back and kicks arse. It's still a Bond movie and I expect Bond to be the main character, whether he is 007 or not. But who knows? Maybe this is a lead in for the next movie, where Bond is actually gone and 007 continues as a black woman.
Very doubtful. This is the end of Craig's Bond. Next movie will reboot things again with a new James Bond.
 

emir

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,501
This is still clickbaiting the Daily Mail article that was locked yesterday.

They're clickbaiting the start of the movie and taking it out of context:

Lashana's character is the new "007" at the beginning of the movie when Bond is retired, but isn't his replacement in the series. Barbara Broccoli shot it down at the Bond 25 kickoff press conference:




That's why Barbara Broccoli/Michael G. Wilson and EON Productions are making The Rhythm Section. It's their version of a "female Bond" and it's out later this year.



That's what EON is doing with The Rhythm Section.

giphy.gif
 
Jun 18, 2018
1,100
I don't believe for one minute that the Broccolli's would let Bond be killed off, let alone request it. it's their cash cow.

Killing Craig's Bond off is not the same as killing the character off. This is the first Bond to have a continuous story arc spanning multiple films. Also, the Broccolli's haven't been afraid of reinvention (see Cragi's Bond), taking a haitus (the time between Dalton & Brosnan) or even a non-white Bond (Barbara has been reported to have wanted Idris for Bond next).

If I remember correctly they wanted Boyle to work with their usual scriptwriters rather than his usual partner John Hodge so he left.

Boyle was reported to be working with Hodge on the script and it was business as usual, it was creative differences that lead to Boyle leaving, rather than the process.

This would make 3 wouldn't it? QoS and Spectre both did it, and I feel like CR and Skyfall played with it to various degrees as well. On top of Die Another Day doing it. And next to that you've got the MI films which do it every movie as well...

Was Bond formally fired in QoS? I just thought he went partially rogue because part of the new persona is his self-centred belligerence whenever anything related to Vespa comes up.

If we're going beyond DC's films then License to Kill is another, and For Your Eyes Only has the interesting (and barely used in the film)) set-up of Bond taking on something personal for M.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
2,996
This kinda reminds me of the days of Die Another Day (God I feel old now) where there was talk of Halle Berry's character getting her own spin-off and acting as a female James Bond. Except the character didn't turn out to be very popular, in fact people liked Miranda Frost more than they liked Jinx, and the idea was promptly shelved.

I couldn't really see the idea of a female James Bond working. Fleming's James Bond is an actual established character, and not a particularly well-functioning one; an alcoholic and misogynistic womanizer who lives for the thrill and has no functioning network of family or close friends to hold him back; hence the reason he's a useful asset to throw at crime bosses or foreign operatives. Not sure how well a woman would fit into a role like that. Unless they simply replace James Bond the character with another agent to get the 007 designation, but then what would set the film apart from the typical non-Bond spy movie?

This will never not strike me as a weird take.

It's the leftish version of "doing X to own the libs". Conservative tears taste just as sweetly to the left as liberal tears to the right.
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
28,989
Wrexham, Wales
It always amazes me how easily people let themselves get swept up in the rumour mongering for Bond. They won't be announcing the new bond for at least another 18 months to 2 years so this is nothing but conjecture.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,020
Boyle was reported to be working with Hodge on the script and it was business as usual, it was creative differences that lead to Boyle leaving, rather than the process.

There may have been creative differences, as there are on pretty much any film, but Boyle himself stated that he left because he wanted to work with Hodge.

"I learned quite a lot about myself working with Bond. I work in partnership with writers and I am not prepared to break it up," he told Empire.
 

GNTsquid

Member
Oct 30, 2017
228
Chicago
I'm skeptical this will happen, but if it did the shit storm to follow would be monumental. If man babies freaked out as much as they did about Tiffas boobs in the FF7 remake, I can only image how people like that would react to Bond becoming not only a woman, but a black woman.
 

ManaByte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,087
Southern California
It always amazes me how easily people let themselves get swept up in the rumour mongering for Bond. They won't be announcing the new bond for at least another 18 months to 2 years so this is nothing but conjecture.

It's not conjecture. They learned a single plot element of the movie and spun it into sensationalist clickbait, as the Daily Mail does. Everyone picks that up and spreads it around the internet.