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Bojack Season 6 |OT| Horseman, obviously.
- Thread starter TrueSloth
- Start date
So, I ended up getting up at 3AM to watch this, have one episode to go.
JESUS FUCK THIS EPISODE! I really with that itimes hadn't SPOILED for me that Bojack wasn't really dead after this episode. They set it up perfectly. This episode was fucking nuts, one of the best TV episodes ever made.
So, I'm sad that Hollyhock no longer wants BoJack in her life. Sad it ended that way. But I'm glad this show isn't pulling any punches when it comes to BoJack's life completely crumbling due to his own horrible life choices.
Loved the last two episodes, hated everything else. Hollyhock* resolution made me the saddest and it gets sadder the more you think about it really. I can't see myself really revisiting these particular episodes besides the finale**, they frustrated me way, way too much. I can't imagine how they wouldve stretched this out to more seasons, I am over Bojack getting his throat stepped on and his redemption being an illusion***
* stuff like this felt like a real pile on, that is some deep dark, dark shit
** The dance and rooftop interactions are some of the realest, most honest dialogues I've ever seen in a TV show, really beautifully done
*** would feel a lot better if it didn't all come down because of a single convo the Pig reporter randomly decided to have , causing another character to completely, abruptly alter themselves in sole service of the plot plus Bojack relapsing into a shitty character flaw for the 1816472622th time
* stuff like this felt like a real pile on, that is some deep dark, dark shit
** The dance and rooftop interactions are some of the realest, most honest dialogues I've ever seen in a TV show, really beautifully done
*** would feel a lot better if it didn't all come down because of a single convo the Pig reporter randomly decided to have , causing another character to completely, abruptly alter themselves in sole service of the plot plus Bojack relapsing into a shitty character flaw for the 1816472622th time
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OP
OP
I think it works to a degree. The last couple episodes were great.
it definitely feels like a retread of the same things. Bojack tries to do better, but something happens where he falls back into his old ways. And I think, ultimately, we shouldn't expect anything else. Everyone he cared for has moved on and have become better without him in their lives. I think what the ending is trying to tell us is that regardless of what happens to Bojack, if he loses friendships and families he cares for, he has grown and has become a better person. Maybe, he's past his rock bottom.
But then you get the tease of the unicorn = possible redemption? And we saw how he reacted to some newfound positivity (relapsing leading to downfall... again) so who knows anymore really.
I'm so against certain elements of these episodes because of the sudden swerve post 1st interview into shitty Bojack (again) after the show clearly wanted me to think he had finally changed for good.
The man in the last episode at Wesleyan with his students , so grateful to be appreciated , to have a fresh start actually still was shitty. Cool.
And ok fine, but then it becomes a checklist of " ok what other shitty thing needs to happen" to him before we kinda see some light at the end and I didn't enjoy that one bit. Finale was very well done though, no real elements are left up in the air needing closure.
OP
OP
I think it's just a reminder that things aren't really going to change. If he didn't turn back into shitty Bojack, then it really would be a redemptive arc. That's the challenge these writers had in deciding what to do with Bojack- answering the question "does he deserve redemption?". And the ending kinda went in the middle ground, because it's not about being seen as good or bad (kind of reflective of what Diane said to Bojack at the end of season 1 "we're not good or bad people, we're just people who sometimes do good things and sometimes who do bad things"). I agree that it feels frustrating and tired though, but considering the ending, I'm not sure what else the writers could have done to get their point across.
It could also be that it's 4am and I'm tired as fuck.
Overall, I thought it was great despite pacing issues and a couple unresolved characters like Kelsey and Gina.
It could also be that it's 4am and I'm tired as fuck.
Overall, I thought it was great despite pacing issues and a couple unresolved characters like Kelsey and Gina.
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Episode 15 is Bojacks Ozymandias.
Edit: I just got the joke. I didn't understand. Zach Braff is there because of Scrubs. Because one of the only other shows I could ever compare this bizarre experiment of gut wrenching character drama, and irreverent humor humor, is Scrubs.
Edit: I just got the joke. I didn't understand. Zach Braff is there because of Scrubs. Because one of the only other shows I could ever compare this bizarre experiment of gut wrenching character drama, and irreverent humor humor, is Scrubs.
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Oh that's true about those characters getting left out especially the second of those two considering they made sure to devote a key portion of part 1's finale to her
I think the HollyHock thing just irks me the most. They go through a lot together they come out of, even though they don't know each other they are family and she sees he is trying. He's really trying and that should mean something but then nope, their resolution is one of complete nothingness, bereft of hope. After all that and because of his past, not because of the man she had come to know. I absolutely hated the complete tug of war over multiple seasons only for them to dive head first into the most cynical possible resolution.
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Her phone number, that was the worst part ,
that they had her go that far. The letter and Bojack's face would have been enough but nooooope have to twist the knife. The more
I think about elements of these last episodes the happier I am that it ended, and I say that as an absolutely huge fan of the show. I can't even imagine how they would have had to step on his throat going forward to surpass what he went through here.
And just now I'm seeing the tag line "leave everything behind you and become something different " about BH on one of the foreign language Instagram accounts . Uh huh sure siiiiiike
She knew what he said in the scene earlier, that he has power over her with his voice and presence, and that if he actually talked to her he'd talk his way back into her life. That was the message of the season. That he was ruining everyone's lives, but that it's not his fault and he doesn't deserve to die. A very bittersweet ending, because I'm not sure the ending left much hope for Bojack.
I think that encapsulates the final non-conversation between BoJack and Diane perfectly. They both have so much to say..... but if they do, they'll just be continuing the cycle. It was a beautiful and heartbreaking moment.
Finished it.
There is a lot of things for me to process, but I really liked all of the back-half of the season, every episode though the last two episodes are definitely the highlight. One thing I noticed is the Season 6 Part 2 had more moments of the characters together and interacting and playing off each other, which was nice to see. I do like where every character ends up at at the end, and even how everything is not neatly wrapped up in a bow.
I'm really satisfied with the ending, and I'm sure I'll get even more out of it when I chew over it more.
There is a lot of things for me to process, but I really liked all of the back-half of the season, every episode though the last two episodes are definitely the highlight. One thing I noticed is the Season 6 Part 2 had more moments of the characters together and interacting and playing off each other, which was nice to see. I do like where every character ends up at at the end, and even how everything is not neatly wrapped up in a bow.
Todd has his own place, a girlfriend that understands him, and reconnects with his mom. Peanutbutter takes the time to find himself and not attach all of himself to other people and trying to please others, and gets to be a figure in a TV show he loves and makes changes while staying Bojack's friend. Princess Carolyn finds a match for her, and has a manage of her personal and work life finally, being in the position she's wanted to be and worked hard for. Diane finds stability and happiness, and leaves behind her past life as she's ready to move on from it all after this last night to say goodbyes.
Hollyhock is really sad to see, but I also understand it. I expect many to be upset about it, but I think it's appropriate. Bojack's past sins she wasn't comfortable with and that actively showed at the start of the season, and so Bojack lost the possibility to connect with his sister again. She had to cut it like this because she both couldn't face him, but also knew if she did it in person or heard his voice she'd let him back into his life. But Hollyhock can never be comfortable with the things Bojack did in the past, even if he's different now and she knows that, so they're no longer in each other's lives and she ends it with a letter to cut ties.
And finally Bojack, he gets sent to prison, but actually it's strangely the stability he needs. The past came and made him lose himself one more time, he is stubborn and needed all of his past to come back up and come to the surface. He's still Bojack, but he's more self-aware than ever and does take responsibility for what he's done. There's things he can't go back and fix, there's irreparable damage he's done, and some things he'll never get back. But there's some things that stay the same, and there's still things for him to live and do, and he's now a better version of himself. He's still Bojack and very flawed, but a better Bojack than he once was.
The last two episodes were the stand-outs, I think this might've been my favorite "surreal episode" the series did. I got what was going on immediately, but even then it was wonderfully executed, and I even enjoyed a lot of subtle details, like the dinner they're all eating being their "last meals" they had before they died, and the symbolism in their stage plays of how they all died showing the best and worst parts of their life they talked about earlier resurfacing in weird mixed imagery of their best and worst combining (and in his dad's case, how his best AND worst moments were the same thing, IE him jumping off the bridge to die, and when trying to make peace with himself he can't, because he didn't live a life worth living and he realizes it right then he wasted his life by being who he was and not caring about the important things as death comes and takes him). The visuals were wonderful, and I think it might be one of my favorite episodes of the series.
The last episode is very melancholic, but it works because the writing they ended with each character was absolutely stellar. The last talks with Todd, Princess Carolyn and Diane were all written excellently, and the actors nailed it. This one lives purely off its writing for me, which is excellent so it really works.
Hollyhock is really sad to see, but I also understand it. I expect many to be upset about it, but I think it's appropriate. Bojack's past sins she wasn't comfortable with and that actively showed at the start of the season, and so Bojack lost the possibility to connect with his sister again. She had to cut it like this because she both couldn't face him, but also knew if she did it in person or heard his voice she'd let him back into his life. But Hollyhock can never be comfortable with the things Bojack did in the past, even if he's different now and she knows that, so they're no longer in each other's lives and she ends it with a letter to cut ties.
And finally Bojack, he gets sent to prison, but actually it's strangely the stability he needs. The past came and made him lose himself one more time, he is stubborn and needed all of his past to come back up and come to the surface. He's still Bojack, but he's more self-aware than ever and does take responsibility for what he's done. There's things he can't go back and fix, there's irreparable damage he's done, and some things he'll never get back. But there's some things that stay the same, and there's still things for him to live and do, and he's now a better version of himself. He's still Bojack and very flawed, but a better Bojack than he once was.
The last two episodes were the stand-outs, I think this might've been my favorite "surreal episode" the series did. I got what was going on immediately, but even then it was wonderfully executed, and I even enjoyed a lot of subtle details, like the dinner they're all eating being their "last meals" they had before they died, and the symbolism in their stage plays of how they all died showing the best and worst parts of their life they talked about earlier resurfacing in weird mixed imagery of their best and worst combining (and in his dad's case, how his best AND worst moments were the same thing, IE him jumping off the bridge to die, and when trying to make peace with himself he can't, because he didn't live a life worth living and he realizes it right then he wasted his life by being who he was and not caring about the important things as death comes and takes him). The visuals were wonderful, and I think it might be one of my favorite episodes of the series.
The last episode is very melancholic, but it works because the writing they ended with each character was absolutely stellar. The last talks with Todd, Princess Carolyn and Diane were all written excellently, and the actors nailed it. This one lives purely off its writing for me, which is excellent so it really works.
I'm really satisfied with the ending, and I'm sure I'll get even more out of it when I chew over it more.
"Life's a bitch and then you die."
"Yeah, and sometimes life's a bitch and you keep living."
I honestly don't think there was anyway to end better than on that note. I've already seen some takes online that Bojack "should've" died for the ending to be satisfying and frankly I disagree with that stance. Frankly that would've been too easy of an out for the character and avoided the uncomfortable question of "what's next" after all of his sins have come to light. I think ending on a more open ended note of what Bojack will do next, now that the potential is there for his career to rebound
"Yeah, and sometimes life's a bitch and you keep living."
I honestly don't think there was anyway to end better than on that note. I've already seen some takes online that Bojack "should've" died for the ending to be satisfying and frankly I disagree with that stance. Frankly that would've been too easy of an out for the character and avoided the uncomfortable question of "what's next" after all of his sins have come to light. I think ending on a more open ended note of what Bojack will do next, now that the potential is there for his career to rebound
Maybe this was the point, but this ending just didn't feel particularly satisfying to me. I feel that even if it was the point, they certainly didn't have the time to fully make that point.
It just felt overly rushed and I would have loved to have another 4 episodes to spread everything around more. I would have loved to see more of Todd and Maude, more of Professor Horseman, more of Mr. Peanutbutters growth (this seems like a real missed opportunity, especially considering how much of this and last season was spent on Pickles) and I would have liked to see more of Hollyhock. Like not even showing us what she wrote is pretty lame.
It almost seems like a waste to spend a whole episode on Bojacks dream as he is drowning in his pool. The episode was good, but with only one episode after that it just doesn't seem worth it.
I also feel like it might have been a narratively stronger choice if Bojack hadn't relapsed. Really just seemed repetitive and not particularly insightful.
Man, I'm kinda disappointed, especially after the first half of this season was probably the best the show had ever been.
I also thought it was pretty weird that he seemingly just gets back into showbusiness. Like that just seems like the last thing he should do.
It just felt overly rushed and I would have loved to have another 4 episodes to spread everything around more. I would have loved to see more of Todd and Maude, more of Professor Horseman, more of Mr. Peanutbutters growth (this seems like a real missed opportunity, especially considering how much of this and last season was spent on Pickles) and I would have liked to see more of Hollyhock. Like not even showing us what she wrote is pretty lame.
It almost seems like a waste to spend a whole episode on Bojacks dream as he is drowning in his pool. The episode was good, but with only one episode after that it just doesn't seem worth it.
I also feel like it might have been a narratively stronger choice if Bojack hadn't relapsed. Really just seemed repetitive and not particularly insightful.
Man, I'm kinda disappointed, especially after the first half of this season was probably the best the show had ever been.
I also thought it was pretty weird that he seemingly just gets back into showbusiness. Like that just seems like the last thing he should do.
I can't see a time or universe where Bojack wouldn't unless he knew what would happen.
I watched the first episode of the new episodes (episode 9) before work, it's really good. I'll binge the rest after work.
I loved this final season. I think everybody ended up where they should. The people who should be happy were, and the people who still had more to learn still have more to learn.
Reading the Hollyhock discussion is interesting because I think it was perfect. Hollyhock made the correct choice. She needed Bojack out of her life. She was good for him, but he was bad for her. There isn't really a moment in this entire back half where he makes her happy. Sometimes you have to just let people go, and it's sad and frustrating, but it's what needs to happen.
I'm glad this show managed to pull off such a complex character like Bojack. He's relatable and you want to route for him, but I can't see many people wanting to be him like with other, similar characters. That's a hard tightrope to walk, but they did it, at least in my opinion.
Reading the Hollyhock discussion is interesting because I think it was perfect. Hollyhock made the correct choice. She needed Bojack out of her life. She was good for him, but he was bad for her. There isn't really a moment in this entire back half where he makes her happy. Sometimes you have to just let people go, and it's sad and frustrating, but it's what needs to happen.
I'm glad this show managed to pull off such a complex character like Bojack. He's relatable and you want to route for him, but I can't see many people wanting to be him like with other, similar characters. That's a hard tightrope to walk, but they did it, at least in my opinion.
I agree on Hollyhock. she's not to blame. Imagine if you were in her position, you reconnected with a long-lost sibling you never knew about a few years back. You two get close, and you like them, but it suddenly comes out this person did some reeeaaaalllyy shitty things in their past, things with underaged people, they hurt a lot of people, used a lot of people. And they're trying to get more and more into your life, they begin going to where you go to school/work and getting a little too involved in your life. You're not comfortable with what they've done, and you don't think you'll ever be. You do see they've changed since their past, but you can't unlink what they did and really connect anymore as they push to be in your life.
It's tragic, and sad, but I think it's understandable. I also think Hollyhock did it via letter and not person or in voice because deep down she does love Bojack, and hearing his voice may make it so she never cut him out of her life. But even if she does love him, she can never be comfortable with him due to his past sins.
On Bojack himself, I think they end it perfectly for him too. He's still by the end of the series Bojack Horsseman, a very flawed person. But he's taken responsibility for what he's done and he has improved. There's irreparable damage he's done, things he's lost he can never get back, but he's been working through it and taken the consequences of his actions from society and worked hard to improve who he is. Again, he's still Bojack, he's still really flawed, but he's a much better version of himself at the end of the series than he was at the start or even a season ago.]/spoiler]
It's tragic, and sad, but I think it's understandable. I also think Hollyhock did it via letter and not person or in voice because deep down she does love Bojack, and hearing his voice may make it so she never cut him out of her life. But even if she does love him, she can never be comfortable with him due to his past sins.
On Bojack himself, I think they end it perfectly for him too. He's still by the end of the series Bojack Horsseman, a very flawed person. But he's taken responsibility for what he's done and he has improved. There's irreparable damage he's done, things he's lost he can never get back, but he's been working through it and taken the consequences of his actions from society and worked hard to improve who he is. Again, he's still Bojack, he's still really flawed, but he's a much better version of himself at the end of the series than he was at the start or even a season ago.]/spoiler]
No spoilers but the poem in episode 15 is amazing
Loved it all, it had to end sometime but this show was phenomenal
Loved it all, it had to end sometime but this show was phenomenal
I feel that Princess Carolyn has enough charisma and depth to have her own spinoff. I'd certainly watch one.
Absolutely. But it sucks that we didn't see what was in the letter, or even what her reaction was when finding out about all of the bad shit he has done. There would have been a lot of conflict there and I think it would have been more affecting to see that.
That was impossible to not binge, If I didn't force myself out to buy dinner then I'd have potato'd myself from start to finish.
Never has a comedy had me so on edge like it's a goddamn thriller.
Never has a comedy had me so on edge like it's a goddamn thriller.
It was powerful, that's all I'm gonna say right now
That one made my blood run cold towards the end.
I agree.
I think Bojack dying would've undermined so much of the show just for immediate "pay-off" and got against so much the show is trying to convey. Plus, a show about mental health problems and people coping with very real and very dangerous problems, I think the show ending Bojack's story with, "he killed himself," would leave a very bad impression.
I feel people only want death for some feelsy, clear cut ending and maybe an exploration of how Hollywood treats death... But here's the thing, Bojack already did all of this with Sarah Lynn a couple seasons ago. They don't need that, I feel Bojack living, going to hail and still being Bojack, but a better version of himself taking responsibility and working through things means more in the end, and will be appreciated more as people have more time to chew over it.
The episode of Bojack dying is very good, maybe my favorite episode in the whole series, but I'm happy it didn't end there.
I feel people only want death for some feelsy, clear cut ending and maybe an exploration of how Hollywood treats death... But here's the thing, Bojack already did all of this with Sarah Lynn a couple seasons ago. They don't need that, I feel Bojack living, going to hail and still being Bojack, but a better version of himself taking responsibility and working through things means more in the end, and will be appreciated more as people have more time to chew over it.
The episode of Bojack dying is very good, maybe my favorite episode in the whole series, but I'm happy it didn't end there.
Also, something about Hollyhock:
She likely knew a lot about New Mexico too, since Pete Repeat told her at the end of the 1st part of the season. The fact she was pushing BoJack away on the 1st ep seemd to stem from that, and the 2nd interview was out with all the rest of the shitty things he did was the breaking point. I also don't blame Hollyhock. Hated that it happened, but it wasn't uncalled for. Man that part with the voice mail was BRUTAL. Outside of ep.15, probably the toughest part of these 8 episodes. Fuck what an amazing season
