bobvids: Sustaining Stupidity - Why CinemaSins is Terrible

[dennett316]

Lots of overly-dramatic posts every time Cinema Sins comes up. "They're a cancer to the art of film discussion!" Please. Shitty opinions existed before Cinema Sins, they'll exist after. WAY too much credit is given to how damaging they are, same way that blockbuster movies in general - and now super hero movies in particular - are not the death of cinema.

"But Lindsey Ellis is awesome and has a fraction of their views and subscribers!!!" Welcome to the world, baby who was literally born yesterday...you have good taste in YouTubers for someone so young. Yes, broad stroke shit will appeal to casual audiences more than in-depth, thoughtful shit. That's not news. They aren't the death of anything other than people's time, and I'd argue that cat videos are WAY worse time sinks. Don't like it? Don't watch...problem solved. All the serious critics will still be there. Including that genius Armond White (someone actually damaging to film criticism due to his reviews actually having weight on RT). Don't see Cinema Sins on any such site.

EDIT - Oh, and looking down on people who watch their videos and calling them "dumbfucks" and "stupids"....REAL classy there, Era.

 

[Inferno]

Trying to blame CinemasSins for ruining the art of film critique is astoundingly silly. You don't have to like them or anything, but it seems like the rhetorical equivalent of "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!" It's a YouTube channel ya'll.

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Huh? It's not 2007, Youtube channels are a mainstream form of entertainment. Shit, we got Youtubers out here throwing around the N-word, the idea that Youtube channels are innocuous seems silly at this point.

 

[Deleted member 388]

I got irrationally triggered when the video pointed out that I must be living under a rock for not knowing who or what CinemaSins is. Don't judge me, man!

 

[Beartruck]

Not really. Cinemasins is helping to dumb down film criticism and the online culture of discussing film.

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You act like every video they unleash deletes a longform video essay by lindsay ellis. It doesnt. Both things can still exist.

Also, I've never met anyone who actually based how they thought of a movie based on cinemasins. In my circles, It's universally regarded as light entertainment. I pity the fool who takes it seriously.

 

[zsynqx]

Trying to blame CinemasSins for ruining the art of film critique is astoundingly silly. You don't have to like them or anything, but it seems like the rhetorical equivalent of "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!" It's a YouTube channel ya'll.

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They have over 7 million subscribers and each of their videos averages over 1 million views. It's one of, if not the most popular movie related channel on youtube, so I don't think it's unfair to say it's having some influence on how people are viewing films.

The "art" of film critique.

Also Cinemasins videos are always about flicks, not films.

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The example they used throughout this video, to point out how many times CinemaSins makes mistakes, is Get Out.

 

[Deleted member 197]

Trying to blame CinemasSins for ruining the art of film critique is astoundingly silly. You don't have to like them or anything, but it seems like the rhetorical equivalent of "Won't somebody think of the children?!?!" It's a YouTube channel ya'll.

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The "art" of film critique.

Also Cinemasins videos are always about flicks, not films.

 

[Deleted member 32561]

Eh. Shaun put it better in his numerous videos on the subject. But yeah, fuck CinemaSins, it's garbage. Tries to invent plot holes where there are none; treats things a film didn't do as something it should have, then negative when another film does it; asks questions the movie answers if you actually watch it. Etc. Etc.

It's only funny if you haven't seen the film, and why would you watch something like that if you haven't seen it?

 

[EvilChameleon]

If you don't take CinemaSins seriously, it can be quite funny. Been a subscriber for a while now. I don't watch for any real critique on movies, I watch for the comedy. Plus, sometimes it actually makes me interested in watching the movie.

 

[Tauntaun]

I think it's another reason why 'film criticism' culture is so toxic. You risk little and leech and profit off other people's investments, risk, and craft.

 

[Neece]

You act like every video they unleash deletes a longform video essay by lindsay ellis. It doesnt. Both things can still exist.

Also, I've never met anyone who actually based how they thought of a movie based on cinemasins. In my circles, It's universally regarded as light entertainment. I pity the fool who takes it seriously.

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Your first point has nothing to do with what I said. It's a straw man.

To your second point, I have.

 

[Deleted member 3058]

EDIT - Oh, and looking down on people who watch their videos and calling them "dumbfucks" and "stupids"....REAL classy there, Era.

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@era Doesn't return any username matches. Who're you talking about?

 

[Deleted member 197]

They have over 7 million subscribers and each of their videos averages over 1 million views. It's one of, if not the most popular movie related channel on youtube, so I don't think it's unfair to say it's having some influence on how people are viewing films.

The example they used throughout this video, to point out how many times CinemaSins makes mistakes, is Get Out.

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I don't see how that changes what i said.

 

[Inferno]

The "art" of film critique.

Also Cinemasins videos are always about flicks, not films.

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I think it's another reason why 'film criticism' culture is so toxic. You risk little and leech and profit off other people's investments, risk, and craft.

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Criticism is an important and necessary part of any artistic medium. And yeah, great criticism is an art in and of itself.

There's nothing toxic about good criticism at all, and good criticism is nothing like Cinema Sins. Good criticism is about celebrating films, putting films in front of people they might not've otherwise seen, analyzing a work and offering a great new perspective.

 

[Einchy]

EDIT - Oh, and looking down on people who watch their videos and calling them "dumbfucks" and "stupids"....REAL classy there, Era.

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lol, you just got done calling people babies.

 

[tino]

I would like to see cinemasin do a video on this thread.

 

[The Bear]

CinemaSins can be dumb fun if you don't take it too seriously. But that's the issue - there is a good part of viewers who take their videos seriously, which indeed does hurt film critique scene.

 

[Toxi]

It feels like it's impossible to criticize any sort of comedy because fans will reflexively say the critique is taking it too seriously.

Even when the criticism is specifically about how it fails at being funny.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

I generally like cinema sins. For everything they get wrong there's some interesting thing they point out.

Don't take it too seriously, people. The level of anger against the channel is baffling.

 

[OrangeAtlas]

Cinemasins videos are always about movies, not kino.

 

[Deleted member 197]

Lots of overly-dramatic posts every time Cinema Sins comes up. "They're a cancer to the art of film discussion!" Please. Shitty opinions existed before Cinema Sins, they'll exist after. WAY too much credit is given to how damaging they are, same way that blockbuster movies in general - and now super hero movies in particular - are not the death of cinema.

"But Lindsey Ellis is awesome and has a fraction of their views and subscribers!!!" Welcome to the world, baby who was literally born yesterday...you have good taste in YouTubers for someone so young. Yes, broad stroke shit will appeal to casual audiences more than in-depth, thoughtful shit. That's not news. They aren't the death of anything other than people's time, and I'd argue that cat videos are WAY worse time sinks. Don't like it? Don't watch...problem solved. All the serious critics will still be there. Including that genius Armond White (someone actually damaging to film criticism due to his reviews actually having weight on RT). Don't see Cinema Sins on any such site.

EDIT - Oh, and looking down on people who watch their videos and calling them "dumbfucks" and "stupids"....REAL classy there, Era.

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How does Armond White damages film criticism? In a thread filled with ridiculous opinions you may have taken the cake.

 

[DeeDogg]

CinemaSins is obviously satire and dumb fun. Cant believe anyone with a functioning brain takes it seriously.

 

[subpar spatula]

Film critique will be fine. Studios care only about rottentomato and other scores, not what youtubers say cause they're not the swaying force.

CinemaSins is fine. How people approach media is their own thing.

I generally like cinema sins. For everything they get wrong there's some interesting thing they point out.

Don't take it too seriously, people. The level of anger against the channel is baffling.

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YouTubers will hate on other youtubers due to envy. It'a the biggest cause of on-platform fighting when it comes to social media, youtube, twitch, etc because numbers mean everything. You don't see giant channels caring about CinemaSins because they're not envious of them. You see smaller channels take shots at the big ones because they feel deep down more deserving of the fame.

Sure. CinemaSins is nothing but they're not a negative force because they're not actually a force influencing the creation of bad movies or reviews that lead to studio changes.

 

[Biggersmaller]

Cinemasins is actively harming media literacy and promoting terrible approaches to art. It's a cancer on online film discussions in particular.

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Oh the drama.

"Media literacy" for 99% of Americans used to mean reading a single review in their local paper's variety section surrounded by these:

 

[Z-Beat]

I got tired of the cynicism. It burns you out after a while. But criticism-wise, maybe a tenth of them are legitimate and the points don't matter. I think they know this, but but I also don't think anyone in here cares if its serious or not

 

[Inferno]

Oh the drama.

"Media literacy" for 99% of Americans used to mean reading a single review in their local paper's variety section surrounded by these:

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Media literacy is simply being able to understand, parse, and analyze what you're seeing on screen. Cinemasins' criticism doesn't even do that.

 

[Kin5290]

CinemaSins is obviously satire and dumb fun. Cant believe anyone with a functioning brain takes it seriously.

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In no universe is CinemaSins satire. That's just a lazy defense trotted out by CinemaSins and their defenders whenever they're called out on their bullshit. Many of the lazy "plot holes" CinemaSins calls out are attempts at legitimate criticism that are repeated in their legitimate "reviews".

Also, suppose CS were satire, then what would be their casual misogyny? "Female character isn't giving me a lap dance, ding!"

 

[Gentlemen]

CinemaSins is obviously satire and dumb fun. Cant believe anyone with a functioning brain takes it seriously.

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Anyone with a functioning brain would not stretch the very meaning of the word "satire" in an attempt to cover for CinemaSins' demonstrably terrible understanding of the movies they pretend to analyze and joke ineffectually about.

 

[Inferno]

That's the thing... If this shit is supposed to be funny... what on earth kind of person actually finds their brand of neckbeardy whining, complaining, and nitpicking amusing?

 

[Deleted member 4461]

It's funny that so few people get it lol. It's a joke channel. As is Music Video Sins, the channel about... music videos.

How is it people like Alessia Cara can watch a video sinning her music video and take it as entertainment, but everyone else has to be extra?

He literally sins movies because of other movies, and adds and removes points for arbitrary reasons. Get over yourselves lmao

 

[Inugami]

This is like getting upset that SNL isn't legit social commentary and that it's bringing down all other forms of media that do... Whether you like it or not, it's just entertainment, and of ALL forms of entertainment that could be legitimately harmful this is by far one of the weakest cases anyone could have.

 

[Border]

Huh? It's not 2007, Youtube channels are a mainstream form of entertainment. Shit, we got Youtubers out here throwing around the N-word, the idea that Youtube channels are innocuous seems silly at this point.

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They're one voice amongst a cacophony of thousands of voices, operating on a platform that's given little weight or interest by serious critics or cinephiles, with almost all their content produced under the auspices of comedy. I don't know if they're completely harmless, but I fail to see what harm they're really doing to the field of serious or academic criticism.

"But some people take them seriously!"

So what? Some people take pro wrestling seriously. Some people think Dragonball Z is a timeless classic. I don't really understand why someone giving this thing more weight than it deserves is really harmful. Those people were never going to start reading Cahiers du Cinema or Sight & Sound anyway.

"But they're really popular!"

Angry Videogame Nerd is really popular. Nostalgia Critic is really popular. RedLetterMedia is really popular. Are their silly routines undermining serious criticism of games & television? Is every other "critic" with a dumb gimmick and persona ruining criticism?

 

[DeeDogg]

In no universe is CinemaSins satire. That's just a lazy defense trotted out by CinemaSins and their defenders whenever they're called out on their bullshit. Many of the lazy "plot holes" CinemaSins calls out are attempts at legitimate criticism that are repeated in their legitimate "reviews".

Also, suppose CS were satire, then what would be their casual misogyny? "Female character isn't giving me a lap dance, ding!"

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In no way would I call Jeremy misogynistic. He seems like a very far left leaning person to me. He added 10,000 sins just because Donald Trump showed up in home alone and went in on Harvey Weinstein and all the other creeps involved with that debacle

 

[Inferno]

In no way would I call Jeremy misogynistic. He seems like a very far left leaning person to me. He added 10,000 sins just because Donald Trump showed up in home alone and went in on Harvey Weinstein and all the other creeps involved with that debacle

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Doing the bare minimum projection of Liberal social politics is now being "very far left leaning"?

Why does this dude keep making that shitty, sexist, lab-dancing joke if he's so woke?

 

[Playco Armboy]

It's funny that so few people get it lol. It's a joke channel. As is Music Video Sins, the channel about... music videos.

How is it people like Alessia Cara can watch a video sinning her music video and take it as entertainment, but everyone else has to be extra?

He literally sins movies because of other movies, and adds and removes points for arbitrary reasons. Get over yourselves lmao

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Are you a massive fan or what?

 

[Deleted member 4461]

Are you a massive fan or what?

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No, I'd like to consider myself a regular-sized fan.

It's just funny that the only things people can come up with against it are blatantly false. Like, if you're looking at it as serious criticism, your reasoning skills may not be... the best.

"I'm sinning this movie because of a movie that came after it!"

"Let's do a bonus round for all the American flags in this movie!"

The people of the internet: "How can you not call it serious film criticism?!"

 

[Inferno]

No, I'd like to consider myself a regular-sized fan.

It's just funny that the only things people can come up with against it are blatantly false. Like, if you're looking at it as serious criticism, your reasoning skills may not be... the best.

"I'm sinning this movie because of a movie that came after it!"

"Let's do a bonus round for all the American flags in this movie!"

The people of the internet: "How can you not call it serious film criticism?!"

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It's not that I think it's serious criticism. It's that people on the internet clearly think of it, or at least portions of it, as legitimate criticisms. Fucking read any movie thread on this site, people just describe a scene and present that as a criticism, without saying anything about why the scene doesn't work for them. People get more hung-up on a movie not being what they wanted it to be, rather than trying to engage with it and understand it for what it is.

This isn't even an online thing. My fiancé had a coworker who she literally couldn't mention liking any movie around, because he'd pull up the Cinemasins video on his phone and try to prove her wrong for liking it.

 

[Playco Armboy]

No, I'd like to consider myself a regular-sized fan.

It's just funny that the only things people can come up with against it are blatantly false. Like, if you're looking at it as serious criticism, your reasoning skills may not be... the best.

"I'm sinning this movie because of a movie that came after it!"

"Let's do a bonus round for all the American flags in this movie!"

The people of the internet: "How can you not call it serious film criticism?!"

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Imagine being a unironic fan of CinemaSins.

Eugh. Wouldn't want to meet those types IRL. They're probably the kind of people to talk like they do on Reddit.

 

[Inferno]

Imagine being a unironic fan of CinemaSins.

Eugh. Wouldn't want to meet those types IRL. They're probably the kind of people to talk like they do on Reddit.

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Like even if you want to argue that it's satire and not criticism... Why the fuck do you find it funny? Nasally neckbeards complaining about the pettiest of shit is humor now?

 

[Deleted member 4461]

It's not that I think it's serious criticism. It's that people on the internet clearly think of it, or at least portions of it, as legitimate criticisms. Fucking read any movie thread on this site, people just describe a scene and present that as a criticism, without saying anything about why the scene doesn't work for them. People get more hung-up on a movie not being what they wanted it to be, rather than trying to engage with it and understand it for what it is.

This isn't even an online thing. My fiancé had a coworker who she literally couldn't mention liking any movie around, because he'd pull up the Cinemasins video on his phone and try to prove her wrong for liking it.

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See, those people are idiots. I feel like the comment section of any CinemaSins video is filled with people saying "don't take it seriously!"

It's funny if you like the movie they're sinning, and it's even more entertaining if you hate it. But anyone who takes it as legitimate criticism - especially considering the absolutely arbitrary stuff he gives sins for (logos before a movie, have to read anything, having to hear narration, etc.) - very much needs to reevaluate their decisions.

Imagine being a unironic fan of CinemaSins.

Eugh. Wouldn't want to meet those types IRL. They're probably the kind of people to talk like they do on Reddit.

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Imagine being so judgmental that you can't accept that people have different tastes in entertainment. Probably the most obnoxious type of person IRL.

 

[DeeDogg]

Doing the bare minimum projection of Liberal social politics is now being "very far left leaning"?

Why does this dude keep making that shitty, sexist, lab-dancing joke if he's so woke?

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If That's the bare minimum to you then how is an innocuous lap dance joke the end of the world?

 

[Daysean]

Imagine being a unironic fan of CinemaSins.

Eugh. Wouldn't want to meet those types IRL. They're probably the kind of people to talk like they do on Reddit.

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Imaging someone liking something you don't

 

[Inferno]

If That's the bare minimum to you then how is an innocuous lap dance joke the end of the world?

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Make that "joke" to a female coworker, and you'll see how "innocuous" it is.

 

[DeeDogg]

Make that "joke" to a female coworker, and you'll see how "innocuous" it is.

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Okay your comparing apples to oranges. One is some dumb dude making a dumb joke on a dumb video, the other is just being a complete ass

 

[Deleted member 1248]

Oh, and looking down on people who watch their videos and calling them "dumbfucks" and "stupids"....REAL classy there, Era.

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My name is not Era. My name is The Kree.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

Make that "joke" to a female coworker, and you'll see how "innocuous" it is.

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I'd argue that while potentially problematic either way, a YouTube channel is somewhere in between expressing something to a friend & expressing the same thing to an acquaintance.

You're going to get away with a lot more types of humor than you would with a random co-worker. So the situations aren't entirely comparable.

It's, if anything, more akin to comedy... But again, it could very well still be problematic, especially depending on the context of the scene. For example, an emotional situation is the exact wrong time to make the joke. It would reduce any performance done by a woman to their appearance... which is no good.

 

[Deleted member 28076]

If That's the bare minimum to you then how is an innocuous lap dance joke the end of the world?

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Probably because they make that same joke multiple times across multiple videos about multiple women.

 

[Funny Valentine]

It's hard to believe that people take CinemaSins seriously and it's almost as if that's why they continue to make videos and get attention.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

It still tickles me how much people get caught up in their feelings because Cinema Sins likes to shit on all movies. Their videos are too predictably goofy to raise this much ire.

 

[StallionDan]

You could just watch Cinemasins own "Everything wrong with Cinemasins" video and realise if you're trying to take them serious enough to criticise on a critical accuracy level you've completely missed the point.

 

[Deleted member 19844]

Probably because they make that same joke multiple times across multiple videos about multiple women.

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Question still stands, though. Given what that poster describes as a "bare minimum of projection of liberal social politics," how is the lap-dance joke, whether used once or regularly, the end of the world?