User Banned (1 Week): Consistent history of personal attacks against other members and misrepresenting arguments
It's not just the right, as you can see in this thread. The center is comfy and wants to maintain the status quo
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Bloomberg : Private health insurance stocks plummet on Medicare for all fears.
- Thread starter Inuhanyou
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It's not just the right, as you can see in this thread. The center is comfy and wants to maintain the status quo
I used to be a politician and even at the low level I was at I was aware of some of the external pressures.
From the context of the conversation it was about BobLoblaw's job and whether it should exist or not. BobLoblaw works in dental insurance. So either both you AND Kasey are incapable of reading a topuc, you're incapable of reading a topic and Kasey just thinks Dental Insurance shouldn't exist, or both you and Kasey can read a topic and you're just being a disingenuous liar to attack another poster.
Whichever one it is, Kirblar isn't posting dishonestly because he had the wherewithal to actually know what the fuck he was talking about before shooting off at the mouth.
This thread is about private health insurance. What's up with all the slippery slope bullshit from some posters in here? Why are we talking about dental, car and home insurance? Stick to the topic at hand. If you have nothing relevant to say about it, leave. Stop trying to muddy the waters.
The government itself should employ a lot of them to administer M4A. This is already indirectly done with Medicaid where states contract with insurance companies to take care of administration work. Something similar should be done with M4A to minimize job losses.
And in addition to that a lot of work needs to be done to update our infrastructure. Yes, much of that is blue collar work, but not all of it. Displaced workers as a result of M4A should get hiring preference for these jobs. And in addition to that apparently Sanders bill also includes an entire year of full pay for displaced workers. That should remain in place.
If all of this is done I think Medicare for All can be cemented in place and deal a crushing blow to crony capitalism. It's a mighty endeavor to say the least, but it's imperative that people not be left to fend for themselves as a result of big structural changes.
It was not stated that the job was dental. It's a topic about health insurance. That's what the context implies, so now not just kiblar but bob is muddying conversation with a strawman.
Anyways, that's clarified, so we are done.
This but unironically. Would love to not have to stress over my renter's insurance and car insurance and just have a universal guarantee for everyone in the country run with public funding.
If you want to complain about Bobloblaw muddying the waters go right on ahead. That's a perfectly valid criticism. But what the fuck does that have to do with Kirblar and how the ffuck is he muddying the waters?
I drill down on this point because, honestly, that's what makes me sick to death of certain folks. Fuck facts. Fuck history. Fuck documentation or easily available information. Fuck doing research. Fuck being informed. Fuck all of it. All certain folks want to do is scream their opinions from the high fucking heavens unchallenged. And whosoever should say a word in opposition is clearly just evil and lying.
You tried to do the same shit to me just now but I wouldn't let you.
People keep forgetting life insurance. You die unexpectedly and your family gets nothing but bills to bury you and pay off your debts. Does that not bother people? We've got some true anarchists around here goddamn. Not you specifically, but some of these posts are downright scary.
We should be outraged that people have to pay bills when someone dies. Capitalism has made death a profit machine and its unconscionable.
Most of the anger and flippant responses you see are just because people are sitting behind a screen. Plenty too are right wingers that go to the extreme just to get you mad at 'the left'.
Not denying that there are people so goddamn mad at the system they're willing to make the omelette and break every egg in their way, but they really are few and far between.
On topic, M4A proposals need to include safety nets for the inevitable transition. If we could properly tax the wealthy like we should, I think our footing would be much better.
It really doesnt.
Honestly we used to have private insurance here alongside a social system, and prices were always much lower than in the US.
There are many other examples throughout the world.
You could probably make the same argument against life insurance that people do for healthcare.
Pensions and nationalized life insurance. Same approach to a socialized health insurance can be applied to these other markets.
No idea why you are quoting me, Im in the health industry as well, im sympathetic 😅
So why should we keep life insurance where only people well off enough to afford life insurance can avoid this? We should just have all debt forgiven upon death and have all funerals and associated costs be publicly funded.
No I know, but there are 250 million people in the country and right now heathcare costs is super inflated due to a middle man that its point is to make a profit. A radical change needs to occur, and unless the health insurance companies change themselves, M4A is going to be the route that we go.
I saw the UMass PERI video and read their financial analysis about M4A but there is nothing there to persuade me that government will be able to save or transition these administrative jobs. I do think it is very wise of them to provide a one year severance package and an early retirement option. However, as it stands, administrative costs account for from 25-33% of healthcare costs. Current health spending is roughly 17% of our GDP. That will not be the case under M4A.
This is the price we need to pay as a society, easy for me to say as I don't work in the health insurance industry and pay $1100 per month for coverage for myself and my family, to rebuild the system. However, giving these folks false hope whether intentional or not is not the right approach. No different than when the automotive industry strung along UAW members as they continued to offshore manufacturing jobs.
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Preventing people from dying because they can't afford insulin isn't anarchy. It's actually pretty normal if you travel outside the USA. A system where poor and middle class people are dying because they happen to not have the right private health insurance is more chaotic than a medicare for all system. Having your employer switch health insurance plan unexpectedly every year is not a stable system.
What debts are owed by the dead that the family has to take care of? Obviously debts will come out of the estate but that hardly counts.
I imagine the same will happen in other insurance industries such as car insurance. What's going to happen to car insurance if healthcare costs are ever reduced and people no longer need a million dollars in liability anymore?
Funerals, burials, headstones, mortician fees, all of that is ludicrously expensive. Cremation is cheaper, but not everyone wants to cremate their loved ones.
Even paying for just the space to dig a hole in the ground to toss a pine box in is pricey.
I can't believe we have a defense force for a industry that is literally killing people.
Neoliberalism is a hell of a drug.
Neoliberalism is a hell of a drug.
Love it
But this will likely become a Republican talking point. They're already gearing up for it because just the other day someone on Fox News spouted some revisionist bullshit about the crash in 2008 was because of Obama's political rise scaring the markets lol.
But this will likely become a Republican talking point. They're already gearing up for it because just the other day someone on Fox News spouted some revisionist bullshit about the crash in 2008 was because of Obama's political rise scaring the markets lol.
There will still be a rough transition period for hundreds of thousands of people. Many lives will be totally uprooted. The point though is to make that already tough transition easier than it otherwise would be; both to minimize political blowback and decrease unnecessary suffering.
I can believe that somebody making their livelihood working for an insurance company is going to defend said livelihood. It's totally reasonable. Were talking about a shit ton of employees, some of the largest employers. If we are really going to make this type of health insurance transition these employees will need to be taken care of and accounted for otherwise we are just cruelly leaving people behind. I can't believe people who make no considerations for the employees.
the entire point of Medicare for all is that with a giant singular "pool" the costs/risks can be distributed even more than under private markets. That's how you get cheaper insurance per person and also less risk for the insurer. (The state in this case). Because the risk is more distributed and so are the costs.
I completely agree, but it isn't like they won't get anything, they will at least have health coverage.
My beef is mostly in the higher ups at these places. It's their system that they created and they have an opportunity to make changes before they get nuked by M4A.
You might want to factor in hospitals, the pharmaceutical industries, and others too. Yes, the private insurance industry is for-profit, but they usually pass along a lot of their costs from the hospitals and drug companies to their members. Both of those are just as corrupt as the medical insurance business.
The anarchy I was referring to was people saying we shouldn't have any insurance companies in any industry at all. No disability insurance, life insurance, homeowners insurance, or anything. That would be anarchy.
You make your living working for an industry that values profits over peoples lives, I'm not terribly inclined to feel sorry for you if that industry collapses. Your ability to make a living is inconsequential compared to the health and well being of every American.
Also the fact that your in dental insurance will garner no sympathy from me. I've been actively arguing with my dental insurance company for over a year to get them to agree that maybe the dentist is right and I should have my cracked tooth repaired before I lose the tooth in a painful emergency root canal procedure. I'll be sure to think of you during my next toothache.
Can't eat health coverage.
I've personally always been in favor of a public option transitioning into defacto M4A. Regulate out any plans that provide less coverage than the public option and then, with a good enough public healthcare option, you'll kill the worst private plans without killing private insurance as a whole and putting a ton of people out of work overnight. What you have left is a public sector healthcare industry covering the majority of Americans and a smattering of private plans that are of greater value, not just cheaper than the national plan.
Tons of people can't afford dental insurance, and suffer for it.
Yeah, i get that. People are upset at the industry and what it does to many of those that are uninsured or under insured.
I try to not take it personally when people
Say I want people to suffer or or die.
Yeah, my big fear is when this finally passes, most of my good years will be passed. I'd be the 'grandpa' in the room with young college students lol.
Y'know, people concerned about losing their insurance jobs have easily 4+ years until any of this is even bound to become a reality in our wildest dreams, due to the speed of governement. Do you think they are going to retrain and refocus or is this going to be like the steamroller Austin Powers scene?
They won't have to worry about having their next job having good health insurance.
The public option could have happened with Obama, but surprise, they didn't fight enough for it because of the industry controlling things.
Again I will say it. This is their problem they created out of greed, and while a lot of innocent regular people might have a bad period, think of the millions and millions that have had hardships or lost lives/family member lives because of the current system.
We pay twice as much for our healthcare and we don't even cover everyone. System is over inflated and they had their chance.
We're going to need an OT so we can complain abouT all the 18 year olds in our community college vocational programs heh.
Except the dental industry also services people on Medicaid and Medicare. My company actually has almost as many low-income, Medicaid/Medicare members as we do people with non-government plans. And while your own dental issue sucks, it's not the same as people who genuinely have suffered on the medical side (where most of the heat in the thread is directed to). You can find complaints about any type of insurance company in any industry, but a dental issue is not usually the same as a medical issue, which can be life or death.
There's no need for Renter's insurance and Car insurance to be subsidized by people who don't rent and don't have cars.
The same is not true of health insurance because everyone has a need for medical care.
And they're rightfully upset...we live in a system where you're fucked if you don't have enough money, and there's just no way out of that for some people. Thing is, there's very few people that actually want people to suffer and die (with respect to health care). The more everyone remembers that, and that forums are refining furnaces for hyperbole, the better off we'll all be.
While true, this is also not unique to M4A. A multipayer UHC system would also accomplish the same thing. The pool being subdivided with competing administrators or a single entity doesn't really matter, which you can see with Europe's successful regulated multipayer systems. (theyre just not in english language countries)
America loves to believe it is exceptional. In order to be truly exceptional, you must constantly outdo your competition (i.e., other countries' standard of living). Yet, we in America constantly fail to do this in measure after measure, especially in the domain of medical care outcomes and cost.
So, American exceptionalism is bullshit. It is nationalistic PR damage control for a country too lazy and risk averse to do something about its very real problems. We compensate for our very frail egos with our big mouths, spouting bullshit all day, every day.
So, American exceptionalism is bullshit. It is nationalistic PR damage control for a country too lazy and risk averse to do something about its very real problems. We compensate for our very frail egos with our big mouths, spouting bullshit all day, every day.
They would have to worry about feeding themselves and keeping a roof over their heads until their next job.
Don't make shit up to suit your narrative. The public option passed in the house and got blocked in the Senate because they didn't have the votes to beat a filibuster because our filibusterproof majority counted on Lieberman (Independent) who would not vote to.break it with the public option in.
So what's your actual argument against my proposal. Because this is just you saying 'fuck those people' for no real reason.
We pay twice as much because Hospitals charge $50 for an off brand q-tip.
I hope they find work fast. They could have fixed the cost inflation. I don't want the average worker to hurt, but not fixing the problem because of the people in the industry is not an option when there are millions that need help.
My overall point is that this is their system that they created and it is their fault. When I say it, I'm not talking about the average employee, talking about the higher ups. If the average person want to get even, then turn their anger to their CEO and fight them when they try to get millions in bonuses for themselves after M4A.
Yeah but I'm up for either one but M4A doesn't necessarily outlaw private insurance. Even Bernie says this
The US HC mess was created by WWII wage caps meant to protect businesses that didnt cap benefits, leading businesses to start negotiating with tons of "noncash" addon bonuses like insurance coverage. When WWII ended the system stuck and became normalized, leaving us with a nightmarish HC setup no economist would deliberately plan out, and one that requires a lot of future soft transitions to get into a better place.
It effectively outlaws it as primary insurance coverage, the UK/Australia still have secondary private plans. It's a "technically correct" answer.
So you have no actual criticism for the process I proposed, you just want to burn it all down and you don't care who gets hurt in the process.
Check.