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GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
The executives that caused the most damage to the game by overhyping it, lying about the state of the game, and releasing before it was ready reaping the most profit from the project in the company is not a good look. I understand they are "owed" this money contractually but they should really take less money and redistribute more to the developers to increase morale, and then they can take their normal bonuses when Cyberpunk is in an acceptable state.
I have serious doubts about it ever happening. Didn't I read somewhere that CDPR is now focusing on new content for the game? I also been watching some videos about the latest update and the improvements are only marginal at best. The game will probably remain as it is.
 

gilko79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,210
Ivalice
The executives that caused the most damage to the game by overhyping it, lying about the state of the game, and releasing before it was ready reaping the most profit from the project in the company is not a good look. I understand they are "owed" this money contractually but they should really take less money and redistribute more to the developers to increase morale, and then they can take their normal bonuses when Cyberpunk is in an acceptable state.


Exactly. Serious side eye from me when someone says they're owed this bonus because of the contract. It's just one more bad look heaped atop a mountain of bad looks for this company.
 

Frag Waffles

Member
Apr 7, 2018
1,068
But what about all of the people justifying extreme crunch, by claiming the developers would be bonused handsomely for their efforts? You mean to tell me that was not the case after all?
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
I recieved a bigger bonus than 34k on a game that sold a fraction as much as Cyberpunk...
 

spiel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
316
Why do people feel the need to come in here and say things like "we already knew" or "what's the point of calling this out". No shit? It's a high profile game. There are concrete figures being shared. Makes yet another great example to point to in the future on how messed up the industry is.
 

mcruz79

Member
Apr 28, 2020
2,789
lol millions to the management that was responsible for the shoddy product in the first place. What a joke and a bad look.
I would say that...
imagine do this kind of job during years, all the lies, the terrible management, deliver a broken product and after that receive 6 fucking million dollars....
hahahaha!!
and people still say that this a hard industry.
imagine do all of this in any other type of industry.
the thing is that games industry, after all this years, still continue to be unbelievable amateur.
Everything. The audience, the media, the management, etc...
It looks a really strange and completely unprofessional market branch
 

Mr. Gold

Member
Jul 1, 2019
725
This is not a flop. If it was a flop the studio would go belly up. It's underperformance and they are being dramatic because they didn't make as much bank as they thought they would
 

N.47H.4N

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,095
The game far underperformed critically and commercially, damaged heavy the company's image and prestige, the game and the company praised for 5 years because of The Witcher 3 is now mocked and a meme because of Cyberpunk all in a spam of a few days after the launch, the game didn't complete flop because the insane hype and lies they built over the years, the pre-orders saved the game, still a big flop for me no doubt.

He said "Close to half of it goes to the Management Board"


...so $28 Million is half of $29.8 Million...?

Who knew?!
29.8M to 865 employees
28M to 5 board members

50% = 28.9M
 
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take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,263
It will never be fair that a guy upstairs who already makes far more than you in a day than you will in a decade will get a bonus the size of which you will never see in your life time. Working as intended*!

*Unlike CP2077
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
If you significantly underperform expectations, and there's at least a perception that the underperformance is due to mismanaging the project, then I think it's very legitimate to question whether you should have taken a look at your bonus structure and considered whether it's appropriate to retain the same % of net profits model you've used in previous years. Of course you aren't obliged to do so, but then I think it's fair that they're opening themselves up for criticism, and if I were a shareholder, I'd give any attempt in the future to rebase the incentive scheme they adopted prior to CP 2077's release (which were based on much rosier sales projections) some serious side-eye.
I mean they very well could have cut the percentage they take. You don't know. Overall I think it's unrealistic for people to expect pay structure at a company to suddenly change because a game over or under performs. The percentage difference between standard employee bonus and CEO bonus would be the same regardless of sales for a particular year. That obviously could change in the future based on past performance but it won't suddenly change in the moment. I think the question everyone should ask themselves is if CDPR had a better reputation for how they treat their employees and if their game wasn't broken, would we still be having the same conversation about pay inequality? I would hope so but somehow doubt it.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
The company still made $250m profit didn't it? That'll be why. All about money in the end.

On a side note is this game actually good? Witcher 3 was my favourite game of last gen but I was holding off for a next gen version of this game. Seems like I made a good decision but all I've heard since is the controversy surrounding the game, and not much about the game itself, underneath all the bullshit and bugs. So what's the deal?

It's a decent game and one of the most impressive ones graphically but it's a mediocre open-world game full of repetitive quests and little variety. The very impressive world is just a pretty with all its distinctive areas and different lore is just a pretty backdrop. It's a very shallow game compared to the Witcher 3. It's decent, has a few moments of greatness, but I wouldn't go further than that.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,672
That's bullshit since it's leadership's fault the game launched how it did. They don't deserve the bonuses.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,561
Can you really award performance bonuses in the millions and still be considered a flop?

It really depends on a company's bonus structure. The company performance for 2020 might have reached certain milestones laid out within their compensation policy to trigger a reduced performance bonus that is below what they were be given if they reached 100% or more of their target.
It's not always a 100% or bust situation.

What I would like to know if this bonus is their regularly yearly bonus, or is this specific or just the performance of Cyberpunk. Does this means the employees don't get any bonuses during the years when they were developing the game? Because of so then 5k divided by x number of years is quite pathetic.

Also, I wonder if the 13 million includes the refunded copies. Because they definitely lost income due to having to do refunds. They were giving refunds without having customers return the hardcopies also, worldwide. The game is also currently not sold on the PS ecosystem, which means loss of sales opportunity. This was a game that was in development for quite a number of years and is supposed to be the cash cow of CDPR for the next few years.

I can't imagine the game development being cheap either. Witcher 3 costs them 80 to 100 million and this game probably costs more, not to mention the crazy marketing campaigns.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
I mean they very well could have cut the percentage they take. You don't know. Overall I think it's unrealistic for people to expect pay structure at a company to suddenly change because a game over or under performs. The percentage difference between standard employee bonus and CEO bonus would be the same regardless of sales for a particular year. That obviously could change in the future based on past performance but it won't suddenly change in the moment. I think the question everyone should ask themselves is if CDPR had a better reputation for how they treat their employees and if their game wasn't broken, would we still be having the same conversation about pay inequality? I would hope so but somehow doubt it.
People have been criticizing issues with crunch at Naughty Dog and Rockstar in this forum. I don't think CDP would be ignored no matter what.

Even if it was in the contract and expected, it's still a horrible practice that some of us have been calling out.
 

Demeisen

Member
Mar 11, 2021
226
I mean they very well could have cut the percentage they take. You don't know. Overall I think it's unrealistic for people to expect pay structure at a company to suddenly change because a game over or under performs. The percentage difference between standard employee bonus and CEO bonus would be the same regardless of sales for a particular year. That obviously could change in the future based on past performance but it won't suddenly change in the moment. I think the question everyone should ask themselves is if CDPR had a better reputation for how they treat their employees and if their game wasn't broken, would we still be having the same conversation about pay inequality? I would hope so but somehow doubt it.

If they had cut the percentage they were entitled to take, they almost certainly would have mentioned it to the analyst asking the question (rather than saying, broadly, "we were paid this much because that's the percentage we were paid in line with previous years"). I don't think it's (or should be) unrealistic for the board to cut their remuneration because of significant underperformance.
 

MonsterMech

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,409
User Warned: Thread Whining; Drive-By Posting
Why do we even care?

The discourse around this game has clearly jumped the shark.

Cant think of one game that I knew or cared about dev bonuses or compensation. That's their business.
 

K' Dash

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
4,156
5 board members obviously worked as hard as those 865 employees. Fair compensation.

That doesn't happen anywhere, that's not just a CDPR issue.

As a developer I know that my work probably will generate millions of dollars to my employer, in my case my salary is pretty good and a $5000 bonus is nothing to scoff at...

Some people here are out of touch with reality...
 

Goldenh

Member
Feb 9, 2020
1,387
I remember seeing so much praise for this company online in the last year. It was one of the most liked and full of potential. People were so excited for this game for YEARS. Crazy how it couldn't have gone worse for the entire rollout of this game. Just mistakes after mistakes.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,539
It's a decent game and one of the most impressive ones graphically but it's a mediocre open-world game full of repetitive quests and little variety. The very impressive world is just a pretty with all its distinctive areas and different lore is just a pretty backdrop. It's a very shallow game compared to the Witcher 3. It's decent, has a few moments of greatness, but I wouldn't go further than that.

Damn, pretty disappointing to here. I'll still give it a shot at some point but will probably wait for a deep discount.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,668
Why do we even care?

The discourse around this game has clearly jumped the shark.

Cant think of one game that I knew or cared about dev bonuses or compensation. That's their business.
I don't get these kind of posts.
If you don't care, why did you post?
Some people work/worked or have friends/family in the industry. Why wouldn't we want the industry to reflect better conditions for its workers. You make it sound like the games industry is a world apart from other spheres.
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
If they had cut the percentage they were entitled to take, they almost certainly would have mentioned it to the analyst asking the question (rather than saying, broadly, "we were paid this much because that's the percentage we were paid in line with previous years"). I don't think it's (or should be) unrealistic for the board to cut their remuneration because of significant underperformance.
I mean everyone at the studio got less money because there was less to go around. That's pretty much how this stuff works. The exec group isn't going to suddenly undercut themselves unless they have shareholders pressuring them to. Right or wrong the bonus percentage range was set when people entered their positions. Also it's not uncommon for an employee's bonus payment to be affected by executive decisions. If Jim Ryan made decisions that made Sony less profitable, everyone suffers. The same as if Jim Ryan makes good decisions. Ultimately everyone is dependent on a few making the right yes or no decisions to keep that bonus money intact. The people that do the hard work have little power over those big decisions such as the CDPR decision to push the game out the door.
 

floridaguy954

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,631
Imagine giving people millions of dollars while ruining lives and marriages in the name of crunch.

It's disgusting.
 

Vash

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,779
CDPR is brought to you, and run, by:

giphy.gif



There really needs to be a shift in the industry. Board members shouldn't get more than developers who pour their hearts and souls (and with crunch, I mean that literally) into a game. It did do very well, financially, but it didn't do the numbers they expected.

I personally wouldn't call it that flop, of course, but you know, those same board members who caused this issue are willing to call it a flop because it means less money for the devs.
 

HaremKing

Banned
Dec 20, 2018
2,416
Honestly very surprised and thrilled that they're not firing half of their staff like so many other big publishers/developers do once they put out a big release.

It's sad that I have to be surprised by this, but that should tell you about the state of the video game industry. My brother has worked at 4 different studios in the past 11 years and each time he was laid off just months after the project he was working on completed. He also never received any bonus of any kind, sadly.
 

Demeisen

Member
Mar 11, 2021
226
I mean everyone at the studio got less money because there was less to go around. That's pretty much how this stuff works. The exec group isn't going to suddenly undercut themselves unless they have shareholders pressuring them to. Right or wrong the bonus percentage range was set when people entered their positions. Also it's not uncommon for an employee's bonus payment to be affected by executive decisions. If Jim Ryan made decisions that made Sony less profitable, everyone suffers. The same as if Jim Ryan makes good decisions. Ultimately everyone is dependent on a few making the right yes or no decisions to keep that bonus money intact. The people that do the hard work have little power over those big decisions such as the CDPR decision to push the game out the door.

I'm well aware of how bonuses and bonus pools work. I'm saying that the execs probably should have at least thought about whether re-evaluating their bonus split in this case was appropriate, particularly given the circumstances around CP 2077's development and launch. If Jim Ryan made decisions that resulted in reputational damage to Sony's brand, IP and significantly lower than expected sales, then yes, the bonus pool would be smaller for everyone, but in particular I would expect the board/remuneration committee to take that into account when determining his remuneration. If Sony's only project for several years turned out to be poorly received, I'd hope for more introspection than "business as usual, folks, it's what we did last year".
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
CDPR is brought to you, and run, by:

giphy.gif



There really needs to be a shift in the industry. Board members shouldn't get more than developers who pour their hearts and souls (and with crunch, I mean that literally) into a game. It did do very well, financially, but it didn't do the numbers they expected.

I personally wouldn't call it that flop, of course, but you know, those same board members who caused this issue are willing to call it a flop because it means less money for the devs.
Executive pay is a much wider problem than what you see in the game's industry. At this point it would probably take government intervention in many different countries to solve the problem. It's not going away.
I'm well aware of how bonuses and bonus pools work. I'm saying that the execs probably should have at least thought about whether re-evaluating their bonus split in this case was appropriate, particularly given the circumstances around CP 2077's development and launch. If Jim Ryan made decisions that resulted in reputational damage to Sony's brand, IP and significantly lower than expected sales, then yes, the bonus pool would be smaller for everyone, but in particular I would expect the board/remuneration committee to take that into account when determining his remuneration. If Sony's only project for several years turned out to be poorly received, I'd hope for more introspection than "business as usual, folks, it's what we did last year".
CDPR is public just like Sony. Shareholders are going to have to reign in exec pay. Execs on their own aren't going to just give money back to the company unless they see it as an investment into future financial growth for themselves.
 

Demeisen

Member
Mar 11, 2021
226
Executive pay is a much wider problem than what you see in the game's industry. At this point it would probably take government intervention in many different countries to solve the problem. It's not going away.

CDPR is public just like Sony. Shareholders are going to have to reign in exec pay. Execs on their own aren't going to just give money back to the company unless they see it as an investment into future financial growth for themselves.

Right. Which is why we have articles like these.

For comparison, 10% of net income is quite a lot higher in percentage terms than what Activision and EA pay their exec boards, and EA recently had shareholders vote down a pay raise package.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,865
It really becomes a trend with Jason's articles: Excellent reporting on important topics, but overshadowed because of one word, sentence or anecdote that wasn't remotely crucial in the first place.

It's almost like this is a problem with fanboys and pedants rather than an actual issue with his writing.
 

60fps

Banned
Dec 18, 2017
3,492
Even if the game had succeeded, this is par for the course. Employees receive a couple thousand while the BOD and executives collect millions.
This is how capitalism works. My bonus is in the $5k range and the management is in the multimillion dollar range every year and I do not work in the gaming industry. I am not condoning CD Projekt Red as a company, but this is standard stuff in the world.
Yeah but JSchreier seems to like publishing scandal news. Sometimes with success, but this is not it imo. I wish I got 20k bonuses.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
What's the budget and expectations? Flop is a very subjective term. The game flopped in terms of investment and expectations.

AFAIK, the game made profit on day one.

The term flop is usually reserved for stuff that actually underperforms when they can't even break even after a reasonable amount of time and see negative returns.
 

demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
The game sold well but it was and is a disaster for CDPR and likely would have sold much more in a better state. Every single thing that went wrong is on the executive end. They got thrown off PSN and required every major platform holder to release a statement on refunds for fuck's sake!

Always golden parachutes for these people no matter how much they fuck up. Their hand is always in the till first.

As for the boycott talk… if it's about labor practices, rather than anger over getting scammed into buying the shitty PS4 version of the game, you have a much bigger problem than this one studio.

Call it whataboutism all you want (the magic wand word that waves away context!), if you're buying Naughty Dog games and so on you're supporting the same shit, you've just conveniently decided that the company that made a game broken enough that you didn't actually want it is the one to boycott to make yourself feel less culpable for what this industry is at its core.

In fact, CDPR has extra heat because they actually tried to avoid crunch but then doubled back and did it anyway! Which sort of draws fire from the many AAA studios that exist in a permanent state of crunch and never promised a thing.

I would support a targeted, thoughtful boycott. But I think if it is CDPR in particular, not only is that too easy (they put out a game people are mad at as a product on its own), but the message the industry would take is "never engage on the topic of crunch ever, and you can avoid heat from gamers over it."
 
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Oct 28, 2017
1,865
This is wretched! Absolute shame on cdpr and im glad i never contributed a penny to CP2077 sales.

Having said that, what companies you guys worked at (or founded if you are working on your own business) and whats the bonus breakdown there? Ive been working in consulting, corporate, startups, etc and the difference between what the lowly staff received v. C Level received has always been astronomical as far as i can remember. Serious Q, wanted to listen and learn here.

I've worked in multiple large corps with country/regional offices. Obviously, bonus is proportional to seniority - it is everywhere. Typically, bonus structures are relatively dispassionate and mechanical. Overall revenue/profit determines the overall size of the bonus pool. In a global outfit, the pool is sub-divided by business division/regional division. The sub-divided bonus pool is further divided according to office performance. Individual employees receive a performance metric. They receive their bonus accordingly. Since I work in consulting, things get more complicated with the MDs/Partners because of cross-selling etc.

CD Projekt reported USD 562m in revenue and USD 303m in profit for 2020. All-time record numbers for them, AFAIK. The bonuses do not surprise me.
 

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,123
Jason Schreier has been covering this industry far too long for some of ya'll to be talking shit.

edit: oops
 
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thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,248
Crazy numbers, not too surprising but its amazing CDPR still pulled out so much profit from a game that was shit on so hard in social media during launch week. You'd think that would have had a bigger impact on sales but apparently not. I suspect there is a lot of fudging going on here too, with them shipping out tons of games to retailers and counting that as 2020 sales, but I have to imagine retailers also returned a lot of copies but maybe that was shifted into 2021 numbers.

Either way I think the company is really screwed in the future, I can't imagine the game ever reaching a "this is a universal 10/10 game" like Witcher 3 or something, just because fundamentally even without bugs and stuff the game is not amazing from a writing, story, AI, etc standpoint. When Witcher 3 came out it was clearly leaps and bounds above the competition in many aspects, but the competition has moved up and is very different now.

Its sad but it feels like the top guys are just plundering sales to pad out their wallet now, and most will bail on the company since no matter what the next game CDPR puts out is gonna sell badly since people don't forget.
 

Onebadlion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,189
This sounds bad on the surface, but those staff bonuses are still better than a lot of other studios would pay. I've worked for studios that have given less than 10% bonuses to their staff.

Exec pay is always ridiculously out of sync with what the average employee gets though. That's the real injustice here, and unfortunately it's not specific to the games industry.
 

slothrop

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 28, 2019
3,876
USA
To the extent there is a problem it is that management negotiated disproportionally better bonuses for themselves well before launch. They all would have been even higher, yes even management, if the game had performed better. They'd all rather be getting bigger bonuses froma more successful laugh too. Company underperforming > lower than expected bonuses > disgruntled employees -- this is common with this type of bonus structure and honestly it probably is not worth it for anyone, even though the mechanisms are clear up front, your employees having lower morale when the company has already just underperformed cannot be a great situation
 

fushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
272
People defending Schreiers usage of the word flop in the opening paragraph of the article clearly miss how this sort of hyperbole undermines the rest of it. I just closed it the first time around because it felt like an attack piece, nothing more.

The problems described in it are very real and the relative size of the bonuses, while a sad normality elsewhere as well, are despicable given the circumstances in which the employees were working. Not to mention how they had no say in what state the final product would be released. I just wish Schreier would stop making a mockery of these issues by covering them like he was writing for a Murdoch tabloid. Incredibly disappointing.