Hourly.. that's probably why I was not complaining.
I dunno, just feel that by this point the fact everyone does this should be general knowledge. Maybe we should make a thread and put them all in there.
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Bloomberg: CD Projekt management to receive $4 to $6 million in bonuses from Cyberpunk's shoddy launch, staff between $5k to $20k
- Thread starter Samiya
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I dunno, just feel that by this point the fact everyone does this should be general knowledge. Maybe we should make a thread and put them all in there.
Hey Jason I have an off-topic question for you.
I know you get a lot of people criticizing everything you write and dissecting everything you write on this forum. Does this ever make you dismissive of coming on here and talking? I know your busy but I do notice the interactions you have on this board is much lower then previously.
Thanks for in advance if you answer :)
The game 100% was not ready for release.
I bought a boxed copy of witcher 1 almost 15 years ago. Since then, CDPR has had a long history of supporting their games to a level most other companies simply do not.
I would have preferred they not release it in the state it was in, but I also knew they would fix it. And largely, they have. I didn't take it personally lol.
Bemoaning the state of capitalism (specifically around bonuses and releasing products before they are ready) is a larger problem with our society. If you're going to boycott cdpr you might as well boycott every company around.
Feel free to make that thread. As others have said it's just common that when certain companies get critical stories about them, some people feel compelled to jump in with "well x also do this" or "I worked y hours for z amount so what's the issue?". It doesn't serve any purpose other than to draw criticism away from the one in question. CDPR exploited their staff and fostered a toxic working environment while working to push out a product that was actively broken and purposefully misleading to their fanbase. The people responsible for the majority of those things walking away with millions off the back of it might not be surprising, but it is still shitty.
It seems fair in a thread about a company and their compensation practices to compare them to other companies. This compensation structure is what literally any company with bonuses does.
Can someone explain to me, like I'm five years old, why the management that helped Cyberpunk become the disappointment it is why they are becoming millionaires while the dedicated staff that worked their asses off to somehow make a decent a product get peanuts in comparison?
How do the managers that caused this mess fail upwards?
How do the managers that caused this mess fail upwards?
Yeah, raking in all that time-and-a-half can make it worth it.
It is general knowledge. The thing is the majority of people want this to change because it simply isn't right or equitable. The rich class largely makes their money from the exploitation of others and engaging in things like wage theft. In the simplest terms, people want a more fair distribution of wealth while society is strongly going the other way. There's far more to this than the face value of CEOs being overpaid.
In this particular instance, executives are taking money that the workers rightfully earned and are putting it in their own pockets rather than paying them fairly. The game underperformed as it was pushed out too soon, and that was the input of the executives. So, on top of the normal not paying fairly, they're then rewarding themselves handsomely for their own poor performance and making the workers take the brunt of the loss rather than paying them like they should.
Man, I can't justify supporting this company.
Tried to enjoy Witcher 3 and it never clicked. Was very hyped for the initial reveal of Cyberpunk and then felt that excitement drain away with every bit of new info.
With the knowledge I have now about the company I am at the point where I'm completely fine to ignore anything they make.
Tried to enjoy Witcher 3 and it never clicked. Was very hyped for the initial reveal of Cyberpunk and then felt that excitement drain away with every bit of new info.
With the knowledge I have now about the company I am at the point where I'm completely fine to ignore anything they make.
I didn't say it did but I bet everyone's bonuses fall in line with the employment contracts they signed just like literally every other company with bonuses. There's nothing scandalous here. It's literally the status quo across capitalism. The higher up you are, the more disproportionate the pay is. That's a systemic problem.
Despite the well-documented fuckery that he has accurately reported, it does not meet the definition of flop.
It seems to me it could have sold more than 13mil if it didn't get that much bad rep on account of being broken.
the status quo across capitalism is garbage, that's why people are complaining. the alternative is to accept and perpetuate the garbage status quo indefinitely.
was my GOTY last year tbh, the world and presentation in here was amazing (sticking to the main quest gameplay loop, obviously not a world to be toyed with like GTA tho lol) but damn thats a shame at how disappointing they've been as an organization for a while. this isn't surprising. its just another poor example from them.
the definitive editions will be pretty good. On PC the current version as it is is a pretty fantastic rpg imo.
Im not judging it on what it could have been or was shown but everything i played i enjoyed and had fun with.
Hopefully, they keep working on it and doing a no mans sky by 18 months.
Im not judging it on what it could have been or was shown but everything i played i enjoyed and had fun with.
Hopefully, they keep working on it and doing a no mans sky by 18 months.
It's a flop. They're expecting 20M on launch and probably to keep selling the game at or near full price for quite a while. Just look at Rockstar games, GTA V and RDR 2 were clearly the type of money they're aiming for. It made a profit? Yes, but they just scraped the surface of the total money CP could have made.
CP is ~5 months old and it's selling for ~11 dollars where I live.
CP is ~5 months old and it's selling for ~11 dollars where I live.
Being the status quo doesn't mean it isn't questionable, and I think you understand that. It's scandalous because it's wrong. CD Projekt or any other company. These executives made horrible decisions - from the treatment of workers to product decisions - and didn't suffer the consequences. The workers did. That's wrong and we should voice our concerns about it.
I can't help but take issue with Jason calling cyberpunk a "glimglorp" when it's really more of a "flimflam". Anyway, hope those workers get their stimulus checks or whatever idk i just kinda saw red and skimmed after that point
Yes, the board execs are entitled to their bonuses contractually. Yes, execs higher up the company hierarchy are expected to receive higher bonuses than employees lower down the hierarchy. Yes, this is normal practice for corporates.
But I'm not sure this is (all of) what has people annoyed. I think it's more that CP 2077 (1) was a failure from a franchise-creation perspective, (2) caused significant reputational damage to the company, (3) was mismanaged and released earlier than it should have been, and (4) failed to meet investor expectations to such an extent that it halved the share price of the company shortly after release.
Despite all that, these bonuses are being paid to the exec team because - as the quoted extract shows - "this is how it's always been". Of course the exec team is legally entitled to the bonuses. But you'd have hoped for at least some self-reflection on whether these payouts are, in fact, appropriate given the circumstances.
If CP 2077 had been a massive success, I think you'd see much less scutiny on the amount of execs' payouts.
But I'm not sure this is (all of) what has people annoyed. I think it's more that CP 2077 (1) was a failure from a franchise-creation perspective, (2) caused significant reputational damage to the company, (3) was mismanaged and released earlier than it should have been, and (4) failed to meet investor expectations to such an extent that it halved the share price of the company shortly after release.
Despite all that, these bonuses are being paid to the exec team because - as the quoted extract shows - "this is how it's always been". Of course the exec team is legally entitled to the bonuses. But you'd have hoped for at least some self-reflection on whether these payouts are, in fact, appropriate given the circumstances.
If CP 2077 had been a massive success, I think you'd see much less scutiny on the amount of execs' payouts.
This is wretched! Absolute shame on cdpr and im glad i never contributed a penny to CP2077 sales.
Having said that, what companies you guys worked at (or founded if you are working on your own business) and whats the bonus breakdown there? Ive been working in consulting, corporate, startups, etc and the difference between what the lowly staff received v. C Level received has always been astronomical as far as i can remember. Serious Q, wanted to listen and learn here.
Having said that, what companies you guys worked at (or founded if you are working on your own business) and whats the bonus breakdown there? Ive been working in consulting, corporate, startups, etc and the difference between what the lowly staff received v. C Level received has always been astronomical as far as i can remember. Serious Q, wanted to listen and learn here.
How does this article or thread change anything? It isn't unearthing anything eye opening or wild like Jason has done in the past. The bonus gap being highlighted is actually pretty tame in comparison to what you would see at Activision or Rockstar for example. It is literally pointing at capitalism without a viewpoint or solution.
Witcher 3 sold over 30 millions. If CP2077 fails to match that, its a flop. This game is the main revenue source for CD Projekt next several years, expectation was very high.
it's not the job of any one article to change what is a systemic issue. what reporting on systemic issues does is create discussion around said issue (as seen in this thread). it creates awareness around the issue. if there isn't awareness around the issue it won't ever be solved. we're probably a long way from fixing this situation - but the only certainty is that if it isn't discussed it will never be fixed.
like holy shit i can't believe that's where this went at first.
are people all really that used to 4 to 6 MILLION dollar bonuses for scummy leadership of companies like jfc
I'm sure the execs got less than they would have gotten otherwise. The scandal would be if the execs still took the same bonus they would have gotten if the game was more successful and the other employees got less. That isn't what appears to have happened here, so what are we even talking about? It's as if this is the first time people are seeing corporate pay structures play out.
I continue to not understand why people pre-order games. 8 million, good lord.
Past game reputation is good, so you look forward to the next offering. Not that difficult to piece together...
User Banned (1 Month): Whataboutism over Multiple Posts; Antagonizing Fellow Member; History of Hostility
What awareness was created? You weren't aware the executives at a company would get millions in bonuses while the employees took home thousands? None of this is first time shit. The only reason Jason is reporting on this is because it is CDPR. If he really wanted to make an impact he could report on this industry wide and show good examples along with bad examples of pay gaps within the industry. There's plenty of easy data to gather out there.
I personally don't willingly and knowingly buy broken products.
I had other reasons for not entertaining Cyberpunk, especially with the fiasco it caused around here and the complete disrespect CDPR had for Trans people regarding their games aesthetics
That's before we even get to the product itself not functioning...
and as I watched the sales for the game take off, I was confused
why the fuck do gamers complain so damn much? Complain about performance / DLC / micro transactions....
All these complaints but they turn right around and buy shitty products Day1 Full Price.
Gamers have a short memory. If Witcher 4 launched tomorrow it would sell gangbusters.
I think it's fair to call it a flop.
Isnt that also because the stock was vastly overvalued, like CDPR's stock was bigger than Ubisoft which has numerous hit series that they release pretty regularly?
It is when game scarcity isn't a thing, and it takes all of a couple hours to read impressions before committing to something.
As a huge left 4 dead fan I'm prepared to pay full price for back 4 blood. I'm still waiting on impressions to see if they fucked it up, though.
i'm going to type one more thing and then dip out of this thread.
to all of the people whose only contribution is to claim that this horrendous practice is completely normal: you're right, but you're also not helping. your solipsism and nihilism won't lead to any sort of progress. accepting the status quo will perpetuate it forever.
as a civilization humanity has made so much progress over the years. look at any social movement. not that long ago it was completely normal for people of different races to be forbidden from eating together. for gay people to get married, for women to vote. these things have all changed in the recent past, and not because of people shrugging and accepting the status quo. saying "it's bad, but it's just how it is everywhere" is a cowardly and selfish response to any form of injustice. it's completely reasonable to imagine that not too far in the future we will have a more economically just society. we'll get there by forefronting the issue whenever possible, not shrugging at it, or worse deriding people for bringing it up.
to all of the people whose only contribution is to claim that this horrendous practice is completely normal: you're right, but you're also not helping. your solipsism and nihilism won't lead to any sort of progress. accepting the status quo will perpetuate it forever.
as a civilization humanity has made so much progress over the years. look at any social movement. not that long ago it was completely normal for people of different races to be forbidden from eating together. for gay people to get married, for women to vote. these things have all changed in the recent past, and not because of people shrugging and accepting the status quo. saying "it's bad, but it's just how it is everywhere" is a cowardly and selfish response to any form of injustice. it's completely reasonable to imagine that not too far in the future we will have a more economically just society. we'll get there by forefronting the issue whenever possible, not shrugging at it, or worse deriding people for bringing it up.
The company still made $250m profit didn't it? That'll be why. All about money in the end.
On a side note is this game actually good? Witcher 3 was my favourite game of last gen but I was holding off for a next gen version of this game. Seems like I made a good decision but all I've heard since is the controversy surrounding the game, and not much about the game itself, underneath all the bullshit and bugs. So what's the deal?
Because it seems like CDPR has a profit sharing scheme in which executives and managers unfairly reap most of the rewards of that profit sharing scheme. And because Cyberpunk 2077 was a flop which sold over 13 million copies and made a ton of money those executives and managers were compensated as such.
If you significantly underperform expectations, and there's at least a perception that the underperformance is due to mismanaging the project, then I think it's very legitimate to question whether you should have taken a look at your bonus structure and considered whether it's appropriate to retain the same % of net profits model you've used in previous years. Of course you aren't obliged to do so, but then I think it's fair that they're opening themselves up for criticism, and if I were a shareholder, I'd give any attempt in the future to rebase the incentive scheme they adopted prior to CP 2077's release (which were based on much rosier sales projections) some serious side-eye.
You could absolutely say it was overvalued, but that's with the benefit of hindsight. In a counter-factual where CP 2077 was a massive success, and lived up to the hype/expectations generated by pre-release metrics, it might have been a fair enough valuation. CDP seemed to think it was fair enough, given their internal incentive scheme targets.
We also have to factor in the damage to CDPR image among investors and gamers. They basically erased all the progress with the witcher 3 and the witcher 2. I seriously doubt they can sell another game based on the name of the studio alone.
Unfortunately, it's a problem in pretty much every company these days. The executives always get the credit for a product launch and get massive bonuses. While the people who actually built the product get barely anything. It's extra scummy when the overtime is common or mandatory.
The executives that caused the most damage to the game by overhyping it, lying about the state of the game, and releasing before it was ready reaping the most profit from the project in the company is not a good look. I understand they are "owed" this money contractually but they should really take less money and redistribute more to the developers to increase morale, and then they can take their normal bonuses when Cyberpunk is in an acceptable state.
I agree with this. The management actually need to be fired considering the amount of damage CDPR got from the game launch.