• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
The CDPR defense force needs to chill with the whataboutisms. Yes, other companies engage in the same shitty behavior. So what? We can all criticize that behavior in other threads when stories emerge about them (i.e. like the multiple threads about Activision and Bobby Kotick).

The simple fact is that this game underperformed expectations and negatively impacted a publicly traded company because those expectations are hugely important to stock price and future earnings. Instead of the board eating most of that negative impact, they passed far too much of it on to the lower level employees. That sucks, full stop. Calling out that greed is perfectly fine and doesn't need pushback.
I have never bought or even played a single CDPR game to this day.

And even though you didn't call me directly.. I did make a similar argument to what you seem to refer to as CDPR defense force...

I stand by what I aid though, this is literally scapegoating.

Every single publisher does this.

I implore anyone to show me a publisher that doesn't.

At least they are getting bonuses. I worked 72hr weeks for most of 2020 and no one gave me any bonuses period.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,865
Of course I don't. Of course I'd be mad, I am mad because of this but I'm mad at the system, not the singular landlord/company. How is CDPR "pathetic" for this when every other company in existence does this? If people here said that everyone is pathetic for doing this I would agree, but singling out CPDR doesn't make sense
So what?
My bosses also make way more than me even though I work my ass off.

Ah yes, the genius "nothing should ever be better for anyone including me" take.
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
I have never bought or even played a single CDPR game to this day.

And even though you didn't call me directly.. I did make a similar argument to what you seem to refer to as CDPR defense force...

I stand by what I aid though, this is literally scapegoating.

Every single publisher does this.

I implore anyone to show me a publisher that doesn't.

At least they are getting bonuses. I worked 72hr weeks for most of 2020 and no one gave me any bonuses period.

It is not scapegoating unless you are doing it to shift blame OFF of other companies, which the post you quoted specifically says does not and should not happen. If you would like to make threads about when other company execs get bonuses when they shouldn't then expect to see many of the same faces in that thread as well.

Also just because you had it worse doesn't mean CDPR's low level employees have it good.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Why does everyone assume that management, leads and head creatives do nothing?

Why are people saying that $5k-$34k bonuses make CDPR a shit company? (there are other reasons they may be, but any bonus plus your wage is great IMO)

For context. I have crunched all the time making CG animation and stills, I am a lead at my company and I am paid a good wage. Very rarely have I seen any type of bonus in my 15 years for crunching and THAT is disappointing at times. Are there any interviews with longtime, mid-level employees that aren't mad?

This type of sourcing worked really well for the release date and crunch shenanigans, where they could catch the heads repeatedly saying one thing and doing another. And for the occasionally embarrassing the heads into paying a little more to lower-level staff, as was mentioned in one of the follow-ups to this article.

But for big-move, financial performance type stuff, the news is "boring": during a pandemic the company took in revenue and paid bonuses across the company, likely pre-structured and accounted for to a degree. That's basically financial success right now. Financial "expectations" during a pandemic where Europe is likely headed towards recession, are increasingly kind of moot. And the game still may get to higher sales targets in the future, as this has been this company's plain-to-see sales pattern over many years.

So right now, whether something is a "flop" or not is only a gamer-cred-level concern, and financial audiences could give a shit about that distinction. So could the employees and sources, I bet, who may still be seeking compensation or restitution for their time and effort in the development cycle, and know the revenue is there well beyond "flop" territory for them to be compensated.

Calling the game a flop makes no news, and helps no one.
 
Jul 20, 2020
1,314
It is $5,000.





To be fair, I don't believe anyone is arguing against this. The real outrage here is these execs getting these bonuses when they're responsible for one of the biggest mismanagements in video games in years.
Agreed, in one hand, the game was a financial success selling over 10 mill in a month, which is their primary goal. But I have an issue with big bonuses in general, even if the game was 10/10 quality.
 

JimD

Member
Aug 17, 2018
3,496
I have never bought or even played a single CDPR game to this day.

And even though you didn't call me directly.. I did make a similar argument to what you seem to refer to as CDPR defense force...

I stand by what I aid though, this is literally scapegoating.

Every single publisher does this.

I implore anyone to show me a publisher that doesn't.

At least they are getting bonuses. I worked 72hr weeks for most of 2020 and no one gave me any bonuses period.

It's not scapegoating. At all. We aren't discussing other companies in this thread. It's specifically about an article which dives into CDPR's business practices. Many of us are calling out those practices, as discussed in the article, as greedy. Literally *every other company in existence* could be doing the same thing and it wouldn't be relevant to a discussion about whether or not those practices are greedy.

You're engaging in whataboutism instead of contributing to the discussion.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
I have never bought or even played a single CDPR game to this day.

And even though you didn't call me directly.. I did make a similar argument to what you seem to refer to as CDPR defense force...

I stand by what I aid though, this is literally scapegoating.

Every single publisher does this.

I implore anyone to show me a publisher that doesn't.

At least they are getting bonuses. I worked 72hr weeks for most of 2020 and no one gave me any bonuses period.
Is anyone here saying that they're the only company doing this?

I imagine that if another thread shows up about another company doing similar things, you'd see a lot of the same members criticizing them. In this thread, we're discussing CDPR.
 

Springy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,213
Half of all the bonus money goes to the very few executives at the top. Wow.

These executives being the people who made all the very smart decisions that led to its launch, presumably.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
Scummy, but not surprising. Given that we're questioning if this game flopped or not, I'm pretty sure there is nothing that can be done about this issue. People are too busy arguing about numbers rather than the fact that executives that forced this game out the door were rewarded for successfully pulling off a bait and switch.
 

mercuralia

Member
Sep 30, 2020
636
Portugal
I think people are too focused on the number of copies already sold, and too little on the long-term sales projections, as well as potential damages to the brand.

GTA V, first released in 2013, is still hanging around at the top of sales charts every single month. If CD Projekt Red's goal was to have a cash cow of their own while funding and developing new titles (not necessarily to the same extent as GTA does for Rockstar, but still), that will be much harder to accomplish now. They are still working on fixing this game, multiplayer has been dropped (for now), potential MTX and DLC sales will be lower with the smaller than expected player base (due to lower sales and players moving on), and so on.

If the game is far from meeting its long term sale expections, and growing further away from them by the day, while costing more than expected due to the time and resources needed to "fix" it, it is a flop. If the reception to the game and the response to it caused it to be pulled from PSN and lead to severe damages in the relationship between the company and its consumer base, it is a flop.

It's not as if CDPR's costs will suddenly halt tomorrow, and a brand new game will pop into existence the day after. The Witcher was release in 2007, TW2 in 2011, TW3 in 2015, and Cyberpunk in 2020. If their next major title was planned for, say, 2025, this situation will mean a delay for that game (and to the cash flows it will bring) and significantly lower revenue during that period. Again, a flop.

I do not believe CDPR will go bankrupt or anything of the sort, but they are most certainly not where they thought they would be a year ago. Seeing management being rewarded such large sums despite playing the largest part in this mess is laughable, and reading people defend it is saddening.

It's not scapegoating. At all. We aren't discussing other companies in this thread. It's specifically about an article which dives into CDPR's business practices. Many of us are calling out those practices, as discussed in the article, as greedy. Literally *every other company in existence* could be doing the same thing and it wouldn't be relevant to a discussion about whether or not those practices are greedy.

You're engaging in whataboutism instead of contributing to the discussion.

The "I suffered so others must as well" sort of mentality is deeply detrimental to the betterment of people's lives. Sad to see it be so prevalent in this thread.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,237
I feel like people are missing the forest for the trees on the "flop" stuff. Yes, the game was profitable but there was tons of bad press and then it quickly fell out of the public mindset. It wasn't nominated for most awards and didn't when when it was. CDPR was clearly banking on this game being a Big Deal and expanding beyond being just a game. They wanted to sell merch, do tie-ins (remember the anime that TRIGGER is working on? Is that still gonna happen?). They wanted this game to feel monumental and... it wasn't and where it was, it was for the wrong reasons. And all happened basically at the exec's behest and then they promptly reward themselves. After they threw QA under the bus multiple times.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,171
It was too late for a lot of people when it came to CDPR, but what they should really be concerned about are how many people buy into their DLC and next game.

Their safest bet is a Watcher game playing it the safest way possible... Not that I am routing for upper management at all.
 

fanboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,452
Slovakia
User Warned: Hostile Pedantic Thread-Derail; Peramantently Thread-Banned
When all your eggs are basically in one basket it is


the Definition for the word flop is total failure. How is Cyberpunk total failure sales wise? it may be dissapointment and very well underperformed, but it sure as hell aint flop. But its schreier so I am not surprised.
 

Lkr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,510
the Definition for the word flop is total failure. How is Cyberpunk total failure sales wise? it may be dissapointment and very well underperformed, but it sure as hell aint flop. But its schreier so I am not surprised.
it's right above you. this game was supposed to be a top seller for years, like the witcher 3. what they really wanted was a money printer like gta5. they didn't get either.
it's less than 6 months from launch and the game is dead. the reality of the situation. people aren't clamoring to go back or wait for it to be fixed. it's not schreier's fault that this is CDPR's business model or the reality of the game. but god forbid he shares actual details of this toxic industry
 
Oct 25, 2017
152
the Definition for the word flop is total failure. How is Cyberpunk total failure sales wise? it may be dissapointment and very well underperformed, but it sure as hell aint flop. But its schreier so I am not surprised.
I bought the game based on hype. Had I known the true state of the game I would not have bought at all.

As it stands now the game sits unplayed because the game that was released is the not the game we were told about. The reasons for the state of the game are what they are, but this version of cyberpunk is a flop. The online was scrapped, and the DLC pushed back indefinitely just to fix the game and get it to a base line where it can be playable.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,047
giphy.gif
 

shadow2810

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,244
I love how you're painting Jason as the person yelling flop over and over again in this fiction of yours and yet it's very clear the kind of person who is actually laser-focussed on the use of that word.
except I'm not calling out "Jason"
Also it's not up to external analyst to decide if company has met internal metrics or not, or are we at under 2m sales is niche now because "I said so"
 

xeroborn55

Member
Oct 27, 2017
952
This game will have legs. On PC, after 1.2 its incredible. Assuming the next gen patch is stable it will sell again
 

bishopp135

Member
Oct 29, 2017
981
CDPR wanted a GTA with the whole online part for themselves and did not get it. For an open company not meeting expectation is worrisome and if the cause was self-inflicted specially so. Right now, they cannot generate the expected revenue stream because the game has a bad reputation. They have to spent time to fix the mess when they could be creating content or launching the online component, and when/if they fix the mess, it will be hard to attract new or returning players. Being tied to this problematic project absolutely make the game a flop for the company and not because in a year they sold less than expected but because it will affect the the foreseeable future of the company.
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
What's with the hardcore bootlicking in this thread.
people have been dying on the hill of CDPR on this forum since its inception

it amplified during the transphobic ad campaigns because people were so pissed they couldn't talk about their favorite company and upcoming game and rationalized it as being some sort of culture difference and that CDPR really didn't mean to

then the game releases in an absolute shit state and people decided to blame old consoles for the setbacks and not the developers who promoted and hyped a broken as fuck game
 

BFIB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,645
Not shocked. Last year due to COVID I quickly engineered our remote VPN, and in doing so, kept our company afloat.

My reward? $500, name in our company newsletter.

Bosses reward? 10K bonus.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
Bonuses are always skewed towards the top regardless of the performance on any games, thats just the way is sadly. Now a flop or not CDPR made a ton of money, and people should stop pretending their next game will flop... People have short memories and will flock to their multiplayer CP game.
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
Damn. 13 million people bought this trash?

I guess people really didn't follow any news on it.

This is a steam bargain bin title in 3 years with everything included after the fixes at best.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,301
The game was a disaster that completely changed public opinion on a studio that only releases one game every five years or so. The only game to get a widespread digital recall ever. It doesn't matter if it made money, it is still a flop.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Cyberpunk went from the most hyped game to one of the biggest trainwrecks in gaming history. It also feels like it is almost forgotten only months after release. CDPR exhausted their workforce and completely tanked their credibility. But I guess in the end it was all worth it for the management. The system is fucked and it's nothing new. They will just make Witcher 4 next and everything will be forgotten. Even today, some people still defend CDPR for this debacle which tells you all you need to know.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,237
Following up on my previous post, Ghosts of Tsushima sold over 6.5 million copies as a single platform exclusive, won multiple awards, had a multiplayer DLC released, and is getting a movie adaptation. People are still talking about the game with praise nearly a year after release. Who is still talking about Cyberpunk?

13M and profit is good, I don't think Jason is denying that. The point is that CDPR clearly had wayyy bigger expectations for Cyberpunk than to just make a profit. It was supposed to have a long and sustaining impact for the company and do big marketing for them simply by existing like Witcher did.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,277
Cyberpunk is an embarrassment of a production and product.

The entire situation regarding CP2077 is a complete indictment on how the gaming industry thrives off mindless consumerism

Everyone who ran and bought a copy at launch has forsaken their right to complain about broken non functional software. The cat was out the bag about how utterly broken the game was during release and people were still buying copies

That's embarrassing how that garbage sold 13 mil
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
This game will have legs. On PC, after 1.2 its incredible. Assuming the next gen patch is stable it will sell again

Really doubt the game will chart again unless the patch hits during a dead month. It just spent too much time outside the public consciousness.

The Witcher 3 on the other hand will keep going thanks to the show and a next gen upgrade that's likely to be substantial since a whole other studio is taking care of it.
 

Xterrian

Member
Apr 20, 2018
2,795
Go back one year and tell people that, after numerous delays to December, and years of years of crunch, the game will release to critical disaster. Bugs galore, missing content features that were promised, CDPR getting obilerated pr wise, and Sony even removing the entire game off of PSN.

It doesn't matter how much it fucking sells or that bonuses are given out, by anyone with common sense the above should and is considered a FLOP. The pr fallout and tons of lost sales after launch due to poor word of mouth, will be felt on the company for years to come.

Words can have nuance. You all defending the garbage heap known as CDPR are embarrassing. Who tf cares if someone calls their game a flop or not??? "Oh no the multi-billion dollar company is having their product insulted!!!"
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
ok but vile that the flop means the board gets penalty bonuses, yet the board forcing the game to release&flop for investment purposes lowered employee pay
 

Deleted member 19533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,873
I bought it on Steam AND the PS4 collectors edition. I think most of us realized it was trash when it was too late. :(
Sorry to hear that. RIP your wallet.

I have never bought or even played a single CDPR game to this day.

And even though you didn't call me directly.. I did make a similar argument to what you seem to refer to as CDPR defense force...

I stand by what I aid though, this is literally scapegoating.

Every single publisher does this.

I implore anyone to show me a publisher that doesn't.

At least they are getting bonuses. I worked 72hr weeks for most of 2020 and no one gave me any bonuses period.
The first sentence he said was " The CDPR defense force needs to chill with the whataboutisms. "

You then respond with more whataboutism. It's not about whether other people do it. It's calling out shitty behavior, and literally every company that does this gets called out here. The other companies suck for doing this too, do you have a point? Is it that something being legal makes it morally okay? What are you trying to get at?

Sucks that you worked so much. I hope you're hourly. If you're salary, it's time to move on if you're not being paid very well.