Bloodstained: ROTN developers address lackluster Switch port, multiple updates on the way

OrangeNova · Jun 26, 2019

They should have delayed it longer. All these people saying that they were scummy for delaying the switch port... what did you want them to do, they obviously tried to do something in that week, for some optimization, but honestly, port parity between Xbone/PS4 and Switch likely isn't going to happen without either visual sacrifices or frame rate sacrifices.

Jbone115 · Jun 26, 2019

The "strategic" 1-week Switch release delay is what really bugs me tbh. It seems like an effort to deliberately prevent negative reviews.

bbq of doom · Jun 26, 2019

skittzo0413 said:
The thing is, I personally generally do notice input lag when it's as bad as people are saying here. I'm really not noticing any at all in this game, at least in handheld mode.

Some people have said it's a pro controller issue and I don't have one of those so maybe that's the problem?

I know a few who have it and all have complained, really regardless of actual input (handheld/pro controller). It might be that their tolerance or intolerance differs.

The least likely scenario in all of this is that "it's fine." The dev even admitted it's not fine.

Like the hat? · Jun 26, 2019

There's definitely a delay in docked mode using a pro controller. It's not unplayable, but it has caused me to miss jumps a couple times. Handheld seems fine for me.

DrROBschiz · Jun 26, 2019

I dont blame them

Unreal Engine 4 is a tough cookie on switch and considering their budget level (though hopefully bolstered by good sales and positive reception) its likely tough to optimize it

Clearly there is room for improvement so hopefully they can get the switch version to a better place

ShinJohnpv · Jun 26, 2019

Imran said:
Does the PS4 version have that problem where you'll jump up to a new room and it will load, then you'll fall back through the jump you made, and it will load again, and then you have to jump back up for another load?

Because how did they think that was okay

THIS! So much THIS! It's fucking killing me trying to play this. How did they ship this like this and think it was ok. As a backer that had to be locked into the Switch version a FUCKING YEAR before they even hinted about performance, I'm pissed.

Kouriozan · Jun 26, 2019

It's really a shame when the Switch version would have potentially be the best selling ones, when looking at the 2D spin-off.
Now when (if) they manage to make it play and look better, people will bring up the awful launch performance hindering further its potential sales in several months.

Skittzo · Jun 26, 2019

BBQ_of_DOOM said:
I know a few who have it and all have complained, really regardless of actual input (handheld/pro controller). It might be that their tolerance or intolerance differs.

The least likely scenario in all of this is that "it's fine." The dev even admitted it's not fine.

Oh yeah I certainly acknowledge it has issues but none of them seem all that bad (to me) to warrant people claiming this version of the game was delayed a week so that reviewers didn't dock points because of this Switch version. It's great that the devs are listening and trying to fix it but I just feel generally surprised at this reception given what I've played of it.

It looks and runs like a UE4 downport on Switch, I'm not sure what else people were expecting.

Input lag wise I've seen way more people complaining about it when docked and using the pro controller so I think that definitely plays a factor here.

ShinJohnpv · Jun 26, 2019

Dark1x said:
I just don't think it's a good idea. The game would have been hamstrung by Wii U and Vita. It could have spoiled the whole project. It's also clear that the game was much uglier in the past and has improved dramatically. I can't imagine people really wanting Wii U to basically hold back the whole project if it meant an inferior experience for everyone.

The original dev team was never going to work on Wii U anyways. Armature was set to do it and Vita which I always found crazy.

I guess it depends on where the majority of your backers are coming from IMHO. If you kickstart something and the largest platform that backers wanted it on was the Wii U, then that should have been the base experience, because that's where the majority of your backers were. I don't know how this one broke down, but IMHO the largest audience that is giving you money to make the game is where the focus should be, regardless of what the most powerful platform is.

Dark1x · Jun 26, 2019

ShinJohnpv said:
I guess it depends on where the majority of your backers are coming from IMHO. If you kickstart something and the largest platform that backers wanted it on was the Wii U, then that should have been the base experience, because that's where the majority of your backers were. I don't know how this one broke down, but IMHO the largest audience that is giving you money to make the game is where the focus should be, regardless of what the most powerful platform is.

I guess we don't know but I have a hard time believing it was the Wii U.

Either way, clearly that wouldn't have worked out well.

Deleted member 6056 · Jun 26, 2019

Pilgrimzero said:
It's not 60fps. The horror.

Its more than that sadly. There are areas where you jump through that I'm experiencing significant load times. Just instead of the momentary black screen its a LONG one and it makes jumping through ceilings disorienting at times. Also some graphical elements are absent altogether. Most noticeable is ALL the rain effects entirely on the opening ship. Some folks have slowdown in some areas. From what the developer said at PAX back then they had overheating issues with the game on switch back then. This may still be a reason its throttled and missing thing now.

Its still fun. Its still playable. Its not like I'm playing slow motion or something. But it definitely looks worse and these weird load times that crop up between certain parts of the map are odd. Any updates would be welcome. Sad I didn't get to see the opening boss fight in as cool a set of details as intended though.

Also pro controller support doesn't exist. It straight up will not recognize it. I have to play using the two joycons. This one bothered me because a better dpad or analog was something I wanted to use on this.

OrdinaryPrime · Jun 26, 2019

skittzo0413 said:
It looks and runs like a UE4 downport on Switch, I'm not sure what else people were expecting.

It seems obvious people were expecting better performance.

bbq of doom · Jun 26, 2019

skittzo0413 said:
Oh yeah I certainly acknowledge it has issues but none of them seem all that bad (to me) to warrant people claiming this version of the game was delayed a week so that reviewers didn't dock points because of this Switch version. It's great that the devs are listening and trying to fix it but I just feel generally surprised at this reception given what I've played of it.

It looks and runs like a UE4 downport on Switch, I'm not sure what else people were expecting.

Input lag wise I've seen way more people complaining about it when docked and using the pro controller so I think that definitely plays a factor here.

What's better for the consumer: downplaying real issues or making such a racket something happens, even if the racket is exaggerated?

It's 2019 and fortunately/unfortunately, this is how this stuff plays out.

Still, the devs should have delayed it or otherwise tested it a bit more thoroughly before release. I think it's clear they didn't do the latter nearly as much as they should have and now we have...this.

cw_sasuke · Jun 26, 2019

OrangeNova said:
They should have delayed it longer. All these people saying that they were scummy for delaying the switch port... what did you want them to do, they obviously tried to do something in that week, for some optimization, but honestly, port parity between Xbone/PS4 and Switch likely isn't going to happen without either visual sacrifices or frame rate sacrifices.

People me were angry because the week delay was nothing more than a political move. I would have been happier with them just owning up the the fact that the Switch version will need more time and be released in Fall or trying to hide the fact and Switch related impressions by the single week delay.

It's not a good look and a game like that should run solid even on Switch, no excuses.

PlanetSmasher · Jun 26, 2019

shaowebb said:
Its more than that sadly. There are areas where you jump through that I'm experiencing significant load times. Just instead of the momentary black screen its a LONG one and it makes jumping through ceilings disorienting at times.

This isn't just a Switch problem, it happens on PS4 too. I get fucked over by ceiling "doors" all the time because the load time is so long it fucks up my double jump timing and I end up falling back through the "door" I just jumped through for another load.

thefro · Jun 26, 2019

I've played 2-3 hours and you get used to the input lag and it's a playable/fun game. It's not a Mighty No 9 style disaster at all (since the actual game is good), but I'm glad they're fixing it.

The castle looks better than the ship/town but it visually looks closer to the beta version of the game.

My suspicion is they don't have the game well-optimized on any platform (considering people are reporting the frame-rate tanking in spots even on PS4 Pro/Xbox 1X), and they're probably not running on a newer UE4 build that has a lot of Switch performance improvements (basically post-Fortnite coming to Switch).

I've noticed frame drops, a couple of the scenes with the characters where the background went nuts, random missing words in the subtitles, and had a hard crash after the (very minor spoiler)

scene of you meeting Alfred in the castle

. And the load time for some of the rooms when you jump up and let go of the jump button and then don't make the platform and fall back down is annoying.

OrdinaryPrime said:
It seems obvious people were expecting better performance.

Yeah, if the PS4 version of the game was 1080p/60FPS locked there'd probably be no issues with a 720p Switch version. The issue is just how the game was built in the first place (built for a dev PC).

ShinJohnpv · Jun 26, 2019

Dark1x said:
I guess we don't know but I have a hard time believing it was the Wii U.

Either way, clearly that wouldn't have worked out well.

I don't have a hard time believing it was the Wii U. Considering the Castlevania series, had the majority of its releases on Nintendo platforms, and how much the Wii U community supported kickstarter at the time, it would not surprise me.

That doesn't change my statement though. If 60% of a kickstarter back it for a weaker platform and you under deliver there IMHO you failed your backers, not did a wonderful job supporting the more powerful platforms.

IMHO the development time should go where the money game from.

LastCupOfBullets · Jun 26, 2019

DrROBschiz said:
Unreal Engine 4 is a tough cookie on switch

None of these UE4 Switch games seem to have these issues...

Dragon Ball Fighter Z, Dragon Quest XI, Fortnite, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, Little Nightmares, My Hero: One's Justice, Octopath Traveler, Snake Pass, The Flame in the Flood, Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes, Yoshi's Crafted World

Blindy · Jun 26, 2019

The vanilla PS4 isn't that great from a performance aspect too. Game crashed on me one time when entering a new screen, when multiple enemies appear on screen there are massive slowdown frame wise(A late boss it is brutal, my character is borderline in slow motion). Hope this gets fixed as well. Still an excellent game by its core, just wish the game performed better.

Cant imagine how much worse it would be on the Switch.

DrROBschiz · Jun 26, 2019

LastCupOfBullets said:
None of these UE4 Switch games seem to have these issues...

Dragon Ball Fighter Z, Dragon Quest XI, Fortnite, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice, Little Nightmares, My Hero: One's Justice, Octopath Traveler, Snake Pass, The Flame in the Flood, Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes, Yoshi's Crafted World

yeah but you can't compare games, studio talent, and budget differences 1 to 1 between studios. I very much appreciate you sharing this list though! I wasn't sure just how many games were using UE4 on switch!

I think budget, split platform support (and likely focusing of resources on more powerful platforms as a priority) and the talent involved played a huge role

And depending on how experienced their staff is with optimization for weaker hardware it could be tough to project how much they are able to improve this game for switch

I am actually surprised they haven't considered contracting experienced porting studios like other indies have done when moving their games to mutliple platforms

There are a lot of great companies out there to work with at this scale

Shoshi · Jun 26, 2019

Hope they manage to fix all the bugs for PS4 before I buy it later this year.
Doesn't it cost huge amounts of money just to release a patch on PS4? Is it the same for Switch? (excluding actual dev costs)

Ridley327 · Jun 26, 2019

ShinJohnpv said:
I guess it depends on where the majority of your backers are coming from IMHO. If you kickstart something and the largest platform that backers wanted it on was the Wii U, then that should have been the base experience, because that's where the majority of your backers were. I don't know how this one broke down, but IMHO the largest audience that is giving you money to make the game is where the focus should be, regardless of what the most powerful platform is.

The game was announced as PS4/XB1/PC. While Wii U was an early stretch goal, they tempered and even assuaged concerns about the game being "compromised" as a result of the addition of the stretch goal platforms, so I don't think that there was ever a situation where ArtPlay was ever considering this anything other than a game for the original platforms.

I fully understand the point that you're trying to make, but even if there were a majority of backers that went Wii U, I don't think that was ever going to impact their design doc.

DrROBschiz · Jun 26, 2019

thefro said:
I've played 2-3 hours and you get used to the input lag and it's a playable/fun game. It's not a Mighty No 9 style disaster at all (since the actual game is good), but I'm glad they're fixing it.

The castle looks better than the ship/town but it visually looks closer to the beta version of the game.

My suspicion is they don't have the game well-optimized on any platform (considering people are reporting the frame-rate tanking in spots even on PS4 Pro/Xbox 1X), and they're probably not running on a newer UE4 build that has a lot of Switch performance improvements (basically post-Fortnite coming to Switch).

I've noticed frame drops, a couple of the scenes with the characters where the background went nuts, random missing words in the subtitles, and had a hard crash after the (very minor spoiler)

scene of you meeting Alfred in the castle

. And the load time for some of the rooms when you jump up and let go of the jump button and then don't make the platform and fall back down is annoying.

Yeah, if the PS4 version of the game was 1080p/60FPS locked there'd probably be no issues with a 720p Switch version. The issue is just how the game was built in the first place (built for a dev PC).

Aww I didnt realize there has been a recent update to UE4 for switch.

Is Fortnite the only game taking advantage of this?

This is also part of the problem. Studios very rarely share what their technical hurdles and limitations are.

thefro · Jun 26, 2019

DrROBschiz said:
Aww I didnt realize there has been a recent update to UE4 for switch.

Is Fortnite the only game taking advantage of this?

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-why-dragon-quest-11-on-switch-is-so-far-off/1100-6458028/

Fairly sure Square-Enix said they were waiting for a newer version of UE4 to start porting Dragon Quest XI over to Switch. My impression was it's not a painless process to update UE4 to a newer version when you're in the middle of development.

DrROBschiz · Jun 26, 2019

thefro said:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/heres-why-dragon-quest-11-on-switch-is-so-far-off/1100-6458028/

Fairly sure Square-Enix said they were waiting for a newer version of UE4 to start porting Dragon Quest XI over to Switch. My impression was it's not a painless process to update UE4 to a newer version when you're in the middle of development.

Good shit and maybe this opens some doors for the Bloodstained team as well?

Maybe someone should let them know (though Im sure they are aware maybe?)

Dark1x · Jun 26, 2019

ShinJohnpv said:
I don't have a hard time believing it was the Wii U. Considering the Castlevania series, had the majority of its releases on Nintendo platforms, and how much the Wii U community supported kickstarter at the time, it would not surprise me.

That doesn't change my statement though. If 60% of a kickstarter back it for a weaker platform and you under deliver there IMHO you failed your backers, not did a wonderful job supporting the more powerful platforms.

IMHO the development time should go where the money game from.

Again - I don't think that's a good idea here as I suspect even those that backed on Wii U wouldn't ACTUALLY want it on Wii U in 2019. It's a difficult situation but that's my guess. The system is long dead and I'd imagine the passionate Wii U owners have all moved on.

So Wii U would have limited what the game could be (based on their limitations - clearly they wanted to use Middleware like UE4) and most people probably wouldn't want it there either. I backed a few Wii U projects back in the day but if you asked about them in 2019 I would say I absolutely do not want them on Wii U - unless it was physical only and, even then, I wouldn't be that interested. Definitely not digital which is a nightmare on Wii U. I can't imagine I'm alone.

...but how would that data be figured out? Hard to say.

Either way - I'm 100% happy with how they've handled this and I'm glad the Wii U version was axed. It would likely have turned out worse than the Mighty No 9 on Wii U (an Unreal Engine platformer) and THAT is so bad that it should never have been approved by anyone. It's straight unplayable.

Daxa · Jun 26, 2019

"Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night uses PS4 screenshots in the eShop". Appears to be a common thing in the eShop, apparently. TIL.

Dark1x · Jun 26, 2019

Bonki said:
"Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night uses PS4 screenshots in the eShop". Appears to be a common thing in the eShop, apparently. TIL.

To be fair, this sort of thing is rarely malicious - it's literally just "we need shots for the store slot".

Also, aside from the low res and a couple missing details, it doesn't LOOK much different at all.

JMTHEFOX · Jun 26, 2019

Good thing that I waited before double dipping. PC version only it is until the Switch version is patched.

ShinJohnpv · Jun 26, 2019

Dark1x said:
Again - I don't think that's a good idea here as I suspect even those that backed on Wii U wouldn't ACTUALLY want it on Wii U in 2019. It's a difficult situation but that's my guess. The system is long dead and I'd imagine the passionate Wii U owners have all moved on.

So Wii U would have limited what the game could be (based on their limitations - clearly they wanted to use Middleware like UE4) and most people probably wouldn't want it there either. I backed a few Wii U projects back in the day but if you asked about them in 2019 I would say I absolutely do not want them on Wii U - unless it was physical only and, even then, I wouldn't be that interested. Definitely not digital which is a nightmare on Wii U. I can't imagine I'm alone.

...but how would that data be figured out? Hard to say.

Either way - I'm 100% happy with how they've handled this and I'm glad the Wii U version was axed. It would likely have turned out worse than the Mighty No 9 on Wii U (an Unreal Engine platformer) and THAT is so bad that it should never have been approved by anyone. It's straight unplayable.

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying this needed to release on Wii U today. What I'm saying is if the majority of your backers are on a weaker platform that should have been your base game. If that changes from Wii U to Switch then the Switch should have been the base.

Again I'm not saying this needed to come out on Wii U. If the majority of the backers were on Wii U and that moved to Switch the Switch version should have been given the focused attention of development. Not what we were given. Again I'm not saying it needed to launch today on Wii U.

I don't see how that data would be hard to figure out, they asked pretty early on what platform you wanted. I mean it was like a few months after the kickstarter ended that they asked that. They would have the data right there.

Plus if you're going to have a version be so poorly optimized allow people to change their platform, don't lock them in 12 months before you give any hint of the quality of the port. I backed this years ago and now I'm stuck with a borderline unplayable version. If I want a playable version I have to reward them for screwing me over with more money, and I'm not going to do that.

Deleted member 6056 · Jun 26, 2019

First thing theyll likely address is the input lag. Its playable and you stop noticing it after a moment but its triple on switch what it is for PC. Its fairly snappy on ps4 by all accounts. Doesn't feel bad and its inline with the amount shooter games have but the spread is enough that its obviously not intended to feel quite like it does so it'll probably be the first thing that gets brought inline.

Theef · Jun 26, 2019

Might swap for Xbone version but too lazy to return my switch copy

mute · Jun 26, 2019

I did have a bit of a laugh when I put the cart in the first time and the version listed was 0.1 lol.

Kinda reduces the value of a physical version pretty significantly.

And yeah, I'd be pretty interested to see what the platform split was with the kickstarter.

Replicant · Jun 26, 2019

OrangeNova said:
They should have delayed it longer. All these people saying that they were scummy for delaying the switch port... what did you want them to do, they obviously tried to do something in that week, for some optimization, but honestly, port parity between Xbone/PS4 and Switch likely isn't going to happen without either visual sacrifices or frame rate sacrifices.

The week delay on switch had nothing to do with game development.

Daxa · Jun 26, 2019

Dark1x said:
To be fair, this sort of thing is rarely malicious - it's literally just "we need shots for the store slot".

Also, aside from the low res and a couple missing details, it doesn't LOOK much different at all.

Absolutely, I'm definitely not worked up about it. I also can't imagine a lot of people going by eShop screenshots to base their purchasing decisions on. Just a PSA for people.

JustALurker · Jun 26, 2019

Why didn't they just delay the switch version a few months? Of course it would impact sales but this sort of game lives on WoM, which has been ruined by the state of the game on the switch.

Dark1x · Jun 26, 2019

ShinJohnpv said:
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying this needed to release on Wii U today. What I'm saying is if the majority of your backers are on a weaker platform that should have been your base game. If that changes from Wii U to Switch then the Switch should have been the base.

Again I'm not saying this needed to come out on Wii U. If the majority of the backers were on Wii U and that moved to Switch the Switch version should have been given the focused attention of development. Not what we were given. Again I'm not saying it needed to launch today on Wii U.

I don't see how that data would be hard to figure out, they asked pretty early on what platform you wanted. I mean it was like a few months after the kickstarter ended that they asked that. They would have the data right there.

Plus if you're going to have a version be so poorly optimized allow people to change their platform, don't lock them in 12 months before you give any hint of the quality of the port. I backed this years ago and now I'm stuck with a borderline unplayable version. If I want a playable version I have to reward them for screwing me over with more money, and I'm not going to do that.

I don't think Switch could have realistically become the lead platform due to how this game was developed.

I also think people are massively overstating the issues with the Switch version. The latency is the worst thing but it's othwrwise similar to many other PS4 to Switch ports. I mean, it runs better than Doom and Wolf 2 on Switch.

Ultimately, this is meaningless without data. We absolutely do not know which version most backers selected, do we?

Deleted member 42472 · Jun 26, 2019

This whole debacle has really soured me on the game.

I'm still willing to throw down another 30 something bucks as a switch tax/penalty

But the way Iga and 505 games have handled this just makes me not want to give them any money.

Backers locked in the better part of a year ago with the "poop" graphics
By the time the Switch's performance issues were acknowledged it was too late to make any decisions
We then had a one week delay that seemed sketchy when it was announced
We get a launch week where the general trend seems to be "This is frigging awesome. Has some performance issues but is still playable" with the mounting knowledge that if a PS4 Pro is chugging the Switch ain't gonna hit that 30 FPS mark
Incredibly long delays between any support ticket responses
A refusal to let people swap digital only keys
And now we are told "Oh, we'll fix it. Its cool. Just keep waiting"

Ignoring the comparatively long cert cycle for patches on the Switch, this all just reeks of brushing us off. They've done the bare minimum needed to avoid the Sterlings of the world from sounding like anything other than a raving lunatic. And the timeline is so vague that by the time it is clear they aren't going to do much it will be on to the next game.

Optimally I would still like to swap my switch key for a steam key. I personally think that is fair, but I get why the parties involved might not want to allow that.
Bare minimum I want a discount code or even just a free copy of the backer DLC on whatever platform I choose. It is a trivial solution that still guarantees they make profits that at least comes across as "Hey, we get it"

And what REALLY pisses me off is that I looked up what else 505 Published. I've been looking forward to the switch version of Terraria for years (play way too much of it on PC and on Vita). And now I am in a weird mess where I want that but don't want to give 505 a single penny.

It is weird, but I kind of wish Bloodstained had stayed a dumpster fire. At least then I wouldn't care about any of this crap

skLaFarebear · Jun 26, 2019

Owning both on Switch and PC and the difference is night and day. You'd obviously expect PC to be much better, but I wasn't expecting the Switch version's to be that poor. The input lag on Switch with a pro controller feels horrendous. Playing on handheld helped alleviate the issue, but it still doesn't feel that good to play in comparison and it looks and runs a lot worse. Hopefully the fixes down the line make it into a better port.

Chief Malik · Jun 26, 2019

Barn said:
The more I read and watch, the more that this is where I'm at with this. On the core game design, Iga seems to have really delivered, certainly much more than many infamous Kickstarter projects. On the technical end, it seems like all versions should have had more time in the oven (let alone the Switch version, the platform on which Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon moved half of all its week-one sales).

Also, I'm already seeing this creep up in this thread and I'd love to nip it in the bud -- I'm much more apt to call this an optimization issue than just writing it off as an Unreal Engine 4 issue. Here are just some of the games already on Switch that seem to do just fine with UE4:

Dragon Ball FighterZ

Dragon Quest XI

Fortnite

Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice

Little Nightmares

My Hero: One's Justice

Octopath Traveler

Snake Pass

The Flame in the Flood

Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes

Yoshi's Crafted World

Granted, each of these games make certain cutbacks within the Switch's framework, but they work within those limitations to provide experiences that don't feel compromised. I think most folks would have been more than happy with a Switch version of Bloodstained delivered at this level of quality.

Can't speak for the others but fighter z on switch is awful bro

DarkJedi78 · Jun 26, 2019

Gundato said:
This whole debacle has really soured me on the game.

I'm still willing to throw down another 30 something bucks as a switch tax/penalty

But the way Iga and 505 games have handled this just makes me not want to give them any money.

Backers locked in the better part of a year ago with the "poop" graphics

By the time the Switch's performance issues were acknowledged it was too late to make any decisions

We then had a one week delay that seemed sketchy when it was announced

We get a launch week where the general trend seems to be "This is frigging awesome. Has some performance issues but is still playable" with the mounting knowledge that if a PS4 Pro is chugging the Switch ain't gonna hit that 30 FPS mark

Incredibly long delays between any support ticket responses

A refusal to let people swap digital only keys

And now we are told "Oh, we'll fix it. Its cool. Just keep waiting"

Ignoring the comparatively long cert cycle for patches on the Switch, this all just reeks of brushing us off. They've done the bare minimum needed to avoid the Sterlings of the world from sounding like anything other than a raving lunatic. And the timeline is so vague that by the time it is clear they aren't going to do much it will be on to the next game.

Optimally I would still like to swap my switch key for a steam key. I personally think that is fair, but I get why the parties involved might not want to allow that.
Bare minimum I want a discount code or even just a free copy of the backer DLC on whatever platform I choose. It is a trivial solution that still guarantees they make profits that at least comes across as "Hey, we get it"

And what REALLY pisses me off is that I looked up what else 505 Published. I've been looking forward to the switch version of Terraria for years (play way too much of it on PC and on Vita). And now I am in a weird mess where I want that but don't want to give 505 a single penny.

It is weird, but I kind of wish Bloodstained had stayed a dumpster fire. At least then I wouldn't care about any of this crap

Very well stated especial #1 and #2. They should at least compensate the Switch backers, we paid the same and received something something subpar. Some of the other Kickstarters gave out Steam keys to make up for issues.

Harp · Jun 26, 2019

I don't mind it running under 60fps, but man the lack of responsiveness is killing me at times. The first boss fight felt like as much a fight against the controls as it did against the boss, and I got hit by several attacks that I only missed the dodges on because of the sluggishness of the control.

That said, I'm still enjoying the game enough to keep playing, but I definitely wish I was playing it on PC at times. I bet it controls far better there.

Deleted member 42472 · Jun 26, 2019

DarkJedi187 said:
Very well stated especial #1 and #2. They should at least compensate the Switch backers, we paid the same and received something something subpar. Some of the other Kickstarters gave out Steam keys to make up for issues.

I think Steam keys would be the best outcome. And, to my knowledge, Valve tend to be pretty good about not charging/charging very little for the devs to generate new keys (but don't quote me on that)

But I get the many reasons they wouldn't want to. That is lost sales AND it is a bunch of keys in the wild for people who are content with their Switch versions to resell. And it might sour relations with Nintendo at a time when 505 are pushing other ports because it is 505 acknowledging the Switch version is so bad that consumers deserve a new copy. The House of Mario won't forget that

That is why I think the discount codes or free DLC is a pretty reasonable compromise. It still sucks that 505/Iga are saying "Spend more money to fix this", but a lot of us are willing to do that anyway (because ware stupid) and this is at least an olive branch. Rather than empty statements that look good on PR and brush this away

Hopefully they do manage to get consistent 30 FPS and crisp inputs. I am not going to hold my breath.

Harp · Jun 26, 2019

Despite my last post, after a bit more playing post-first boss, the input lag is rather grating.

I bought it off Amazon- does anyone know if they'll take returns on open games? If so, I'll return it and buy PC.

Jeremy · Jun 26, 2019

skittzo0413 said:
Oh yeah I certainly acknowledge it has issues but none of them seem all that bad (to me) to warrant people claiming this version of the game was delayed a week so that reviewers didn't dock points because of this Switch version. It's great that the devs are listening and trying to fix it but I just feel generally surprised at this reception given what I've played of it.

It looks and runs like a UE4 downport on Switch, I'm not sure what else people were expecting.

Input lag wise I've seen way more people complaining about it when docked and using the pro controller so I think that definitely plays a factor here.

I have the same impression as you, for what it's worth.

What I'm playing feels like it's within the acceptable range for a Switch downport. There are compromises and room for improvement, but the game itself is clearly playable... even in portable mode.

My posts to this effect in this thread have been so harshly received that I can only think it's some system wars bullshit motivating some people in here... that or the shock that a game that "looks" 2d can't hit full resolution and 60fps?

lord_of_flood · Jun 26, 2019

Good to hear that updates are on the way, but they really should have just delayed the release until they were ready. I want to play this game since I hear it's great from a design perspective, but since I'm Switch-only, I will be waiting to buy until they push out all the necessary updates (mainly to fix input lag, though any problems with unstable framerates also need to be addressed).

SuperFakerBros · Jun 26, 2019

Dark1x said:
I don't think Switch could have realistically become the lead platform due to how this game was developed.

I also think people are massively overstating the issues with the Switch version. The latency is the worst thing but it's othwrwise similar to many other PS4 to Switch ports. I mean, it runs better than Doom and Wolf 2 on Switch.

Ultimately, this is meaningless without data. We absolutely do not know which version most backers selected, do we?

Well the difference is that this is a 2.5D indie metroidvania and those were graphically impressive fully 3D games so the disparity is less easy to forgive here than it is with Doom or Wolfenstein 2

Skittzo · Jun 26, 2019

Jeremy said:
I have the same impression as you, for what it's worth.

What I'm playing feels like it's within the acceptable range for a Switch downport. There are compromises and room for improvement, but the game itself is clearly playable... even in portable mode.

My posts to this effect in this thread have been so harshly received that I can only think it's some system wars bullshit motivating some people in here... that or the shock that a game that "looks" 2d can't hit full resolution and 60fps?

I think it's just an issue of expectations. I understood this was a 3D UE4 game, so I didn't expect a flawless IQ or 60fps like we get with something like Hollow Knight, which is a sprite based game.

To me this has all of the usual downgrades people should be expecting from current gen Switch ports, so nothing has been terribly surprising or disappointing to me.

AuroraMusisAmica · Jun 26, 2019

Honestly the biggest issue right now is the input delay. I've missed a few jumps and attacks because of the issue, which can be annoying when the missed jump results in you having to take 5 mintues to get back to the spot you were in...

Muddy textures are next up. Some of the areas look crisp, clean, and wonderful. Some other areas (especially character models) look horrendous. I had a laugh at the

Zangetsu

boss fight, as in the reveal he looked downright terrible.

Other than that, it's a fun game so far. I've had one crash (and it was right after I saved) so I'm not bitter about that (yet).

scitek · Jun 26, 2019

So were they just hoping no one would complain about the state it released in?

I seriously doubt they thought it was fine before it launched.

AuroraMusisAmica said:
Honestly the biggest issue right now is the input delay. I've missed a few jumps and attacks because of the issue, which can be annoying when the missed jump results in you having to take 5 mintues to get back to the spot you were in...

Muddy textures are next up. Some of the areas look crisp, clean, and wonderful. Some other areas (especially character models) look horrendous. I had a laugh at the

Zangetsu

boss fight, as in the reveal he looked downright terrible.

Other than that, it's a fun game so far. I've had one crash (and it was right after I saved) so I'm not bitter about that (yet).

One of the most egregious things to me, from the gameplay I've seen, was the shimmering from either a lack of anti aliasing or low resolution. It was very noticeable.

Bloodstained: ROTN developers address lackluster Switch port, multiple updates on the way

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