• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,018
Your argument is that an OT about a thing doesn't have to be about that thing, which is an inherently ridiculous position. I don't know how else to explain it. You claim to be "fine" with people still being excited about Blizzard games, yet at the same time seem to express incredulity at the idea that people would want the OT of a Blizzcon thread to actually be about Blizzcon. And if you think the OT is actually a good faith effort at making a thread to discuss Blizzcon itself then I really don't know what else there is to talk about.
So your complaint is basically that you don't like the fact that the OT has a communist theme despite everything that has happened in recent weeks?

Did you seriously think that the Blizzcon OT would be free of any mentions of the very public disaster that has been happening at blizzard for the last month?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,227
Your argument is that an OT about a thing doesn't have to be about that thing, which is an inherently ridiculous position. I don't know how else to explain it. You claim to be "fine" with people still being excited about Blizzard games, yet at the same time seem to express incredulity at the idea that people would want the OT of a Blizzcon thread to actually be about Blizzcon. And if you think the OT is actually a good faith effort at making a thread to discuss Blizzcon itself then I really don't know what else there is to talk about.
The controversy surrounding blizzard itself is an inextricable part of blizzcon
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I would be careful agreeing with me. Clearly I'm in the wrong here.
Lol you act as if people are getting banned or warned or cursed at for agreeing with you.

You can easily talk about just games while ignoring everything else. Or if it bothers you THAT much, there's reddit and the blizzard forums.

I play OW and Diablo and was subbed to WoW classic and I think the thread has struck the right balance
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,386
EH5vSluXYAAkgrl.png:large


Here's hoping NONE OF THIS is true

But it was posted in June, so...
Always convenient that one single person who "got fired" somehow knows everything about every project and panders to some popular doom and gloom opinions.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,046
Did you seriously think that the Blizzcon OT would be free of any mentions of the very public disaster that has been happening at blizzard for the last month?

The controversy surrounding blizzard itself is an inextricable part of blizzcon

I guess I am defeated, as we live in a world where there is no reasonable middleground between totally ignoring the blitzchung fiasco and making a jokey meme OT.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,821
San Francisco
Your argument is that an OT about a thing doesn't have to be about that thing, which is an inherently ridiculous position. I don't know how else to explain it. You claim to be "fine" with people still being excited about Blizzard games, yet at the same time seem to express incredulity at the idea that people would want the OT of a Blizzcon thread to actually be about Blizzcon. And if you think the OT is actually a good faith effort at making a thread to discuss Blizzcon itself then I really don't know what else there is to talk about.

I would like a real OT as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
I've been keeping a close eye on the Blizzard/HK fiasco, and there are two developments worth noting.

First of all, Blizzard released the guide for attendees yesterday, and it includes this passage:

Blizzard said:
A NOTE ABOUT PERSONAL EXPRESSION AT BLIZZCON

BlizzCon has always been a place where we celebrate the passion and diversity of the Blizzard community, where we encourage and support the many creative and thoughtful ways attendees share and reflect their views and interests—and this year will be no different. We welcome open, constructive, and civil discussion of different perspectives at the show, and we also want to make sure everyone's aware that all attire and cosplay is allowed at BlizzCon as long as it adheres to the long-held standards we've laid out for the show each year.

Now, I understand that the whole situation with Blitzchung exploded in the first place because of, shall we say, a loose interpretation and enforcement of the stated rules. But I've read their explicit policies closely, and the bottom line here is that pro-HK messages on T-shirts, signage, and community artwork are theoretically permissible, even if we know their production team for the online stream will probably try to dodge or minimize that on camera to maintain the appearance that everything is fine and everybody is as gleefully hyped as always. (Full-sized umbrellas, probably not, unless they are specifically inspected and approved at the costume desk.) If people get screened or reprimanded for this, they should be raising a stink about it.

Second—and pertinent to the above—one of the better actions I saw proposed when this situation exploded was the distribution of pro-HK T-shirts outside the Convention Centre. I saw a number of different groups jump on this and set up crowd funds to do just that, but I'm pleased to report that an experienced global solidarity group, Freedom Hong Kong, will be supporting this with T-shirts and leaflets on site:

Og6cM4X.png


9NrkRbz.png


So we'll see what the mood is like and how much of it we can actually witness from afar.

My personal view on this is that Blizzard will survive the weekend just fine, and that we shouldn't expect too much from the blowback on site: scattered boos and muted applause, one rogue Q&A moment that they'll be prepared to handle in advance (and probably more prepared for than the "out of season April Fool's joke" exchange in 2018), one or two costume displays you'll hear about after the fact. If passive displays of pro-HK messages on T-shirts or e-sports cheer signs are too prevalent and well distributed to be avoided by the video crews, or if J Allen Brack is widely booed in the opening ceremony, I think that's enough to be considered a modest success.

My sense of the vibe online is that at this point, everybody knows what their level of discomfort with Blizzard is, and that there is a general reluctance to take it out on developers or community figures who are still in the fold—much less on fellow Blizzard players. At this point there is a pretty clear segmentation of those who genuinely resent Blizzard, those jumping on a bandwagon to spam on Twitch, those who are annoyed with Blizzard but not to the point of consumer action (which, individually, often feels meaningless), and those who are just annoyed with or apathetic to the whole shebang and want to bury their heads back in the games. This weekend, they will all be under the same roof.

*

If you're following BlizzCon from home and you're neither a Virtual Ticket holder nor someone who follows Overwatch/Hearthstone pro tournaments, there won't be much to see in public view on Saturday anyway, so why not take note of the global emergency rallies in support of Hong Kong that are being arranged in major cities all over the world as we speak. These only happen once every month or so, and given the precariousness of the situation in HK and how rapidly it moves week to week, each one could be the last one to meet with much success. The Blizzard issue is highly visible and well known in pro-HK circles, and dropping by to say hello to one of these, specifically on BlizzCon weekend when you could be at home watching pro Hearthstone, will doubtless be appreciated as a show of support.

*

Lastly—that's a lot of talk from me about HK but not about Blizzard's showing itself.

I'll be quite honest: I've been back in the fold of following the StarCraft championships, as I knew I would, and I'm looking forward to the bracket on Friday that is certain to run extremely late (even if it's a whole lot of Zerg). SC2 is fully in maintenance mode, and there isn't even a panel for it this year (which is less than what Heroes of the Storm got last year just weeks before its development staff and e-sports operations were gutted), so I'll take what I can get.

As far as the product line goes, the main draw for me this weekend will be Warcraft III Reforged, which is sure to see a beta announcement and a release date, possibly pushed into 2020. There is a great deal of interest in whether Reforged will serve as a content platform that goes beyond WC3/TFT and delivers something new like SC2's co-op mode, as WC3 is innately such an excellent fit for that already with all the one-off hybrid factions that are already in the campaign. I don't expect anything more than the straight remake we've seen so far, but I would be pleased to see it (playable content, I mean, not just cosmetic microtransactions like unit skins).

We all know the big guns this year will be Diablo IV and Overwatch 2, and I could not be less interested. These are the Blizzard IPs that interest me the least, and I say that as someone who spent part of yesterday catching up on all the Overwatch animated shorts, which are always lovely to see. (I've always thought the visual design, world, and characters of Overwatch were absolutely wasted on a genre like the multiplayer shooter.) So I am not at all dreading any twinge of internal conflict like some people are, if they're telling themselves, "I love Diablo and Overwatch, these announcements look amazing, and it hurts to tear myself away from Blizzard when I know they'll drag me back." I don't love Diablo and Overwatch. But I do know the feeling, and I won't judge; I've already made my peace with the certitude that I'll be playing WC3 Reforged.

I really am looking forward to the WoW expansion announcement and cinematic, but I like following these even during cycles when I'm not interested in playing the game and don't see myself going back. This will probably be the only thing I get out of the opening ceremony aside from an Overwatch short—and it speaks volumes about the current state of Blizzard that, totally apart from their China catastrophe, I'll be watching for cinematics rather than actual products. It has never been easier for me to withdraw from their catalogue, if not yet fully.
 
Last edited:

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,018
Lol you act as if people are getting banned or warned or cursed at for agreeing with you.

You can easily talk about just games while ignoring everything else. Or if it bothers you THAT much, there's reddit and the blizzard forums.

I play OW and Diablo and was subbed to WoW classic and I think the thread has struck the right balance
Yeah I think it's about right. I'm fine with people being excited. I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't gonna be one of them. Especially for Diablo. But it's possible to be excited for the announcements and still acknowledge that Blizzard deserves to be blasted and shamed for how they have handled this entire situation regarding China and how they have revealed themselves to be hypocrites when it comes to their values as a company.


It just feels like some people are trying to have a "I just wanna play games" kind of reaction to all this. And given the severity of what's going on in Hong Kong I think its just rubbing people the wrong way.
 

Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,451
Always convenient that one single person who "got fired" somehow knows everything about every project and panders to some popular doom and gloom opinions.

not even that, Diablo 4 turning into a shlooter sounds like the most fake nonsense I've ever heard

please remind me of this post if it turns out to be true so I can drink bleach
 

Denryu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
860
Brazil
Why do people keep posting that 4chan rumor? Its fake as fuck and has been proven ages ago. Or do some of you seriously believe OW2 is deleting white people? Lol
 

Deleted member 51691

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 6, 2019
17,834
Maybe a better OT could include both the CCP memes and the usual date, time, links, what to expect, etc. that come with event OTs
 
OP
OP
Dixie Flatline

Dixie Flatline

alt account
Banned
Sep 4, 2019
1,892
New Orleans
Maybe a better OT could include both the CCP memes and the usual date, time, links, what to expect, etc. that come with event OTs
I did start making a rough schedule though Blizzcon is super packed with events left and right. What Blizzard made on their site is by far the best way to view it which is why I made the schedule link large and hard to miss.

I've already been thinking of making a 'what to expect' portion that I'll likely add when I get home.
 

Dracil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,437
Only reason I'm gonna wanna watch the streams is to hopefully catch someone in the audience pulling something like this off

 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,369
I guess I am defeated, as we live in a world where there is no reasonable middleground between totally ignoring the blitzchung fiasco and making a jokey meme OT.
I'm with you. I don't understand why everyone sees it as so black-and-white. The OP is very clearly not about anything but the controversy, which is what we're taking issue with. I'm not angry at the OP or anything. I just agree that the first post should actually include the event info, or links to some of the content for this year, haha.

I did start making a rough schedule though Blizzcon is super packed with events left and right. What Blizzard made on their site is by far the best way to view it which is why I made the schedule link large and hard to miss.

I've already been thinking of making a 'what to expect' portion that I'll likely add when I get home.

Thanks OP!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Call out Blizzard but the OP should, at least in my opinion, be unbiased and factual. Then people can comment on what they want afterwards as per the mods. I know I'm in the minority. Call me a shill, a sympathizer, whatever. I don't care. But my stance is that Blizzard fucked up and deserves to be called out for it - its just that people are using this thread as a place to literally only scream and hope Blizzcon fails when there's people who are there and actively trying to enjoy something they paid for or get joy from. Not even counting the previous posters in this thread who have actively shamed people who are legitimately excited about the games.

My apologies to those posters if World of Warcraft is an important part of my life and brings me a modicum of joy especially in some really shitty points in my life - including most recently 2017 through most of 2018. Azeroth brings me joy. And I also think Blizzard has handled this situation poorly but I'm not going to post drive by gifs and wish the worst on a company who's majority of employees had nothing to do with the decision. If this makes ERA posters who's opinion of me literally matters nothing to my existence angry then so be it. That's on them - not me.

Speaking as someone who has been very active on the Blizzard/HK file since day one, but who also considers their catalogue an important part of my life: your perspective on this is fair. But you also expect too much of this forum.

Prior to this, I was always on the outside looking in with every controversy big or small that blew up around here, none of which ever felt proportionate—and I think the general tone of caring more about industry disasters than about actual games has always reigned around here. This has never been a good community for covering Blizzard anyway, neither on the previous board nor on Era, because it's dominated by console players who prefer action games over strategy (and who, ironically, are likelier to get more out of an Overwatch/Diablo BlizzCon than the traditional Blizzard base).

My decades-long relationship with Blizzard has been permanently damaged, but I understand very well (and better than most around here, I'd say) why their games mean a lot more to their players than just any other games, and why the fabric of community in the Blizzard-sphere is, or was, truly something special and unique. So I'm not going to judge. But the community on this forum has always been far, far removed from Blizzard circles just as a matter of demographics, and controversies outside the games have always taken centre stage. This isn't the best place to expect anything different.
 

cyldman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
296
Portugal
About Diablo 4, I really see no world where blizz could throw me off at buying it.
Unless it's clearly like a micro-transaction pay 2 win kind of game, which I'm sure they won't follow that route.

Of course I am still hoping on a darker design, but if it's anything like diablo 3, I'm all in.
 
OP
OP
Dixie Flatline

Dixie Flatline

alt account
Banned
Sep 4, 2019
1,892
New Orleans
I'm with you. I don't understand why everyone sees it as so black-and-white. The OP is very clearly not about anything but the controversy, which is what we're taking issue with. I'm not angry at the OP or anything. I just agree that the first post should actually include the event info, or links to some of the content for this year, haha.



Thanks OP!

You're totally right! Not having anything about the the games is a valid complaint. I've already typed up a good bit at work. Just need to get in front of my computer at home to clean it up.
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
You're totally right! Not having anything about the the games is a valid complaint. I've already typed up a good bit at work. Just need to get in front of my computer at home to clean it up.
Thanks for chiming in. I appreciate the original OP, and it got a good chuckle out of me, but I do sympathize with the current complaints as well.
 

Dogenzaka

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 20, 2019
803
I'm really anxious about Overwatch 2. It sounds like they're just doing a big PvE thing and not touching or reworking anything PvP related which would be a huge mistake and missed opportunity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,227
But I've read their explicit policies closely, and the bottom line here is that pro-HK messages on T-shirts, signage, and community artwork are theoretically permissible, even if we know their production team for the online stream will probably try to dodge or minimize that on camera to maintain the appearance that everything is fine and everybody is as gleefully hyped as always.
Their code of conduct is vague enough that we have no idea what's really permissible.

BLIZZCON CODE OF CONDUCT


We want everyone at BlizzCon to feel like they're part of one big Blizzard family. To help make that happen, we ask that everyone at the show be respectful and courteous to their fellow attendees.

If you witness or experience any activity that puts someone's safety or enjoyment of the show at risk, inform a security guard or Blizzard employee (BlizzCon staff will be wearing "BlizzCon Crew" shirts at this year's show) and let them know. We have escalation procedures in place to handle these kinds of situations, and we can take the appropriate action from there.

In order to ensure the event provides a safe, enjoyable, and welcoming environment for everyone, Blizzard reserves the right to remove from BlizzCon any person whose conduct is deemed to be disorderly or unbecoming, or who uses vulgar or abusive language.

The rules Blizzard used to ban blitzchung and withhold his reward money were similarly vague. No way do I expect them to take the high road here when they've already shown that they'd rather appease china.
 

Magnus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,369
You're totally right! Not having anything about the the games is a valid complaint. I've already typed up a good bit. Just need to get in front of my computer at home to clean it up.

I feel bad. I don't wanna rag on you. I know how much work a regular meaty post is, nevermind one with graphics and shit. I applaud the work. And I find a lot of what you did hilarious (in a good way). I'm just agreeing that more of the meat of the event should be there, too.

Clarifying that I also feel Blizzard should rightfully be blasted for their actions recently. I'm not boot-licking. As a comms/PR person, I'm FASCINATED to see how the first 30 minutes of this thing goes. I feel confident they'll address it up front after some pleasantries. It'll be a disaster if they don't.

Or it may not be, and the internet forget. I don't want it to forget, though. Blizzard should do everything they can to make this right.
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
Speaking as someone who has been very active on the Blizzard/HK file since day one, but who also considers their catalogue an important part of my life: your perspective on this is fair. But you also expect too much of this forum.

Prior to this, I was always on the outside looking in with every controversy big or small that blew up around here, none of which ever felt proportionate—and I think the general tone of caring more about industry disasters than about actual games has always reigned around here. This has never been a good community for covering Blizzard anyway, neither on the previous board nor on Era, because it's dominated by console players who prefer action games over strategy (and who, ironically, are likelier to get more out of an Overwatch/Diablo BlizzCon than the traditional Blizzard base).

My decades-long relationship with Blizzard has been permanently damaged, but I understand very well (and better than most around here, I'd say) why their games mean a lot more to their players than just any other games, and why the fabric of community in the Blizzard-sphere is, or was, truly something special and unique. So I'm not going to judge. But the community on this forum has always been far, far removed from Blizzard circles just as a matter of demographics, and controversies outside the games have always taken centre stage. This isn't the best place to expect anything different.

Nope, I totally see where you're coming from with this and I appreciate your input. I agree too re: ERA (and when GAF was relevant as well) that this current Blizzard isn't the nostalgia, rose tinted filled vision previous posters have and have dismissed any and all things they've done since the merger/WC3/SC1 etc. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen saying things like "FUCK BLIZZARD! I haven't played anything they've made but I'm boycotting them!" which is... like you're literally doing nothing to them since your money hasn't affected their bottom line in over 15 years. You're just grandstanding to feel like you're a part of the group.

Now someone who bought BFA or D3 or Overwatch boycotting? Good on them! That's their right and prerogative. They have every right to do that and express dissatisfaction as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's hype or enjoyment. Coming in to a thread like this to just shit on everyone else isn't a good look.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,046
Clarifying that I also feel Blizzard should rightfully be blasted for their actions recently. I'm not boot-licking. As a comms/PR person, I'm FASCINATED to see how the first 30 minutes of this thing goes. I feel confident they'll address it up front after some pleasantries. It'll be a disaster if they don't.

Or it may not be, and the internet forget. I don't want it to forget, though. Blizzard should do everything they can to make this right.

I imagine there is a lot of pressure/desire internally at Blizzard for the opening ceremony to start with pretty explicit messaging (an outright apology is probably hoping for too much, sadly) regarding the whole situation and how much they value the community and their values etc. Whether that actually happens, and what form it takes is anybody's guess though. There's also the specter of Activision potentially throttling what they are "allowed" to say.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
Their code of conduct is vague enough that we have no idea what's really permissible.



The rules Blizzard used to ban blitzchung and withhold his reward money were similarly vague. No way do I expect them to take the high road here when they've already shown that they'd rather appease china.

I agree, and this is why I hope to see some people have the courage to challenge this just to see where Blizzard draws the line. They must know, on the events management side, that cracking down on something like a pro-HK T-shirt—and doing so under a policy this open to interpretation—would unnecessarily become the centre of the story all weekend.

I hope they realize on their end that the smart thing to do here, for them, is to let this go.
 

Deleted member 46948

Account closed at user request
Banned
Aug 22, 2018
8,852
I appreciate your permission! Thank you!

Now, as I was saying, implying violence will be brought upon anyone who supports Hong Kong by Blizzard or Activision is stupid, irresponsible and factually untrue.

It's almost as if this was an enthusiast forum where posts don't have to pass rigorous peer review for factual accuracy. Mind boggling, I know.
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
It's almost as if this was an enthusiast forum where posts don't have to pass rigorous peer review for factual accuracy. Mind boggling, I know.

Oh, I guess I'm just too stupid to understand simple posting practices. Must be my blonde hair and the fact I was born in the south. I'm sorry for being to stupid to realize what this person was clearly intending to imply.
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,963
Mostly in to see the Diablo news. Curious to see if the D2 remake is true and to see what D4 looks like. I tried loading up OW the other day and I'm so burned out by that game and I haven't played it in 2 years. Napal loaded up with the same old music and I just turned it off.
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
If you think this is believable you have to be really gullible. Lmao.


There are just some already then leaked ibfos mixed with "antisjw" 4chan phrases.

The diablo plot doesn't fit with the real leaked stuff

People will believe what they want to believe. If it fits their narrative of something they already dislike then it's easier to accept as fact.

I know I'm guilty of it with celebrities and politicians for sure.