As if the money saved from these schemes wasn't what is spent on lobbying and buying said politicians.
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Blizzard paid $0 in US federal taxes in 2018
- Thread starter NattyBo
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I'd like to see a list of every videogame publisher that does this.
Not just the unpopular one on Era.
Not just the unpopular one on Era.
What about they're all assholes and must be held accountable and all who enable them
The OECD and BEPS is going to do alot over time to smooth those charts out. That is based on treaties between countries other than the US though. I am a Corporate Tax Director at a mid-sized public company and have definitely seen my far share of shit. I don't think our tax code is that far off though. Tweaks to capital gains rates and treating large corporations differently than small businesses some items would get us alot closer. As people have stated this isn't illegal just possibly shady depending on all the facts behind the scenes.
One of those "games" is having the money to pay the ones who make the rule of the "game".
You really don't see how fucked up is that? "fuck you got mine"?
People making posts like this should also post which large corporations they support.
Because it looks like you support WWE. How much did they pay in taxes last year?
Oh, Linda MacMahon is on Trump's Cabinet and WWE profited $750,000 in tax breaks.
I hate these tax loopholes as much as everyone else but let's not be throwing crap at other posters because it can get thrown right back.
Get out and vote. Dumbass boomers still believe in trickle down economics and that "corporations are people too", and we're just now reaching a point where we reliably outnumber them. Go vote in every election, for every level of government, and get rid of the ones getting bought out every time one steps out of line.
Yeah, this fact shouldn't stop people from calling this stuff out but basically the goal of every major conglomerate is to give back as little to society as possible.
This thread is weird. It's like gaming side just figured out how American lobbying works and they're mad at Blizzard specifically over it. It's fine and justifiable to be angry about it, it just seems bizarre that we're putting all of this on one company, and we aren't even using their corporate name.
Is this thread just supposed to make me more angry at Blizzard? Or raise awareness of shitty lobbying practices?
Is this thread just supposed to make me more angry at Blizzard? Or raise awareness of shitty lobbying practices?
I wasn't making any excuses at all. It's bad. I just know where to direct my anger. Get the lobbyists out, too.
I don't blame Blizzard, they should only pay what they are asked to by the government we built. If we want them to pay more we have all the tools to make it happen.
And yet people lost their jobs a while back. Peoole need to understand that the "devs need money" excuse that people give to a lot of games is just bullshit. Said devekooers don't see any of it and only the higher ups and the suits profit from.
Fuck Blizzard, China and Activision.
Fuck Blizzard, China and Activision.
I mean, the simple fact that we are posting in a video game enthusiast forum kinda puts everyone who enters the discussion here at some level of hypocrisy.
I mean, presumably that person is also pro taxing the WWE more. I agree that some of the anger directed at Blizzard is missing the forest for the trees, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people can't like said corporations products.
They see it. They just want to keep things as they are so when they fall into their CEO position of a major corporation they can reap the benefits. (It will happen someday! I just know it!)
The crux of his post is not incorrect though because what else do you propose? Do you want to go through the political system? Then you need to elect politicians who are willing to change the rules. Otherwise the only alternative I see is revolution (which is fair enough but will certainly not be easier).
I'm not sure I follow, why would it be hypocrisy? If we don't buy their products, they wouldn't have any money to pay taxes with, so if anything, I would want the companies I buy products from to pay taxes, so that my spending on entertainment also benefits everyone else.
There is nothing simple about the legislature in the United States at the moment.
FWIW, and this is for Activison-Blizzard, not necessarily their execs (which I haven't searched for), but they actually don't do that much lobbying at all:
Then, looking at campaign donations:
If I did that search wrong, or missed something, someone let me know and I'll update this post.
Then, looking at campaign donations:
If I did that search wrong, or missed something, someone let me know and I'll update this post.
Companies should be legally required to pay a fixed percentage of their income, or be forcibly broken up.
Yeah but that would mean not only being angry at the Blizzard side of the company, which apperently is still a big no-no.
I mean, it's right there in the picture lol
Classic tax haven move.
Respect for this. The two people on head of Supercell actually are also the biggest taxpayers of Finland (2018).
Respect for this. The two people on head of Supercell actually are also the biggest taxpayers of Finland (2018).
This is a consequence of unintended good intentions.
Back in 1992 Bill Clinton ran on the idea of CEOs make too much money, the government should limit that. Simple idea, and simple solution: if companies pay CEOs more than $1m, they should be taxed much more on the amounts above that. Corporations are tricky though, in the final law that passed they had their lobbyists successfully insert a paragraph that basically said "oh, but any compensation paid to employees via stock options won't count as part of that $1m cap". Famously a few people foresaw what a problem that could be and tried to kill it, including Robert Reich the treasury secretary, but the lobbyists had too many congress people in their pocket and it passed.
After that stock compensation has become a huge part of companies, not just CEOs but upper management, the board, and even regular employees at tech startups - famously thousands of Silicon Valley millionaires are minted every time a big company goes public (or bought). Companies LOVE it, they simultaneously can give out big bonuses in the form of options, AND IT IS A NEGATIVE TAX CONSEQUENCE. If they give out $100m in theoretical options, they can say "Oh, we lost $100m because of these options and that offsets $100m in profits". Its not quite that simple the math gets bogged down a lot, and there are still taxes they pay and of course when the employee/CEO/etc sells the options they still pay taxes.
Anyways the point is something that seemed like a good idea was hijaacked to be a huge problem, just like Bill Clintons "lets crack down on crime" probably led to the biggest crime against minorities in impoverished neighborhoods by sending largely people of color to jail for stupid drug crimes, depriving families of fathers for generations, and creating a massive police and prison industrial complex the country is still under the heel of.
Before we do any "solutions" to this kind of problem it needs a lot of thought and smart people thinking about all the loopholes and making sure there are ways to stop them from being abused in the future. A political win for 1 month can be a Pyrrhic victory a decade later.
Anyways this problem tends to get exaggerated in raw numbers, Blizzard doesn't pay $0 in taxes. They still pay income taxes, social security, taxes on stuff they sell, local taxes, land taxes, taxes on goods purchased, etc. They can just offset almost all their profit by giving employees stock options. They don't "get" money from the government like some welfare payment if that puts them in the red, they can just carry a portion of that as offset against profits in the future. There is some misinformation being propagated. When those employees sell their stock they pay capital gains taxes, although it also can be mitigated heavily and rich people use similar "offset" tricks to reduce their tax share. Ironically its the poor and middle class who never get any real tax breaks.
Back in 1992 Bill Clinton ran on the idea of CEOs make too much money, the government should limit that. Simple idea, and simple solution: if companies pay CEOs more than $1m, they should be taxed much more on the amounts above that. Corporations are tricky though, in the final law that passed they had their lobbyists successfully insert a paragraph that basically said "oh, but any compensation paid to employees via stock options won't count as part of that $1m cap". Famously a few people foresaw what a problem that could be and tried to kill it, including Robert Reich the treasury secretary, but the lobbyists had too many congress people in their pocket and it passed.
After that stock compensation has become a huge part of companies, not just CEOs but upper management, the board, and even regular employees at tech startups - famously thousands of Silicon Valley millionaires are minted every time a big company goes public (or bought). Companies LOVE it, they simultaneously can give out big bonuses in the form of options, AND IT IS A NEGATIVE TAX CONSEQUENCE. If they give out $100m in theoretical options, they can say "Oh, we lost $100m because of these options and that offsets $100m in profits". Its not quite that simple the math gets bogged down a lot, and there are still taxes they pay and of course when the employee/CEO/etc sells the options they still pay taxes.
Anyways the point is something that seemed like a good idea was hijaacked to be a huge problem, just like Bill Clintons "lets crack down on crime" probably led to the biggest crime against minorities in impoverished neighborhoods by sending largely people of color to jail for stupid drug crimes, depriving families of fathers for generations, and creating a massive police and prison industrial complex the country is still under the heel of.
Before we do any "solutions" to this kind of problem it needs a lot of thought and smart people thinking about all the loopholes and making sure there are ways to stop them from being abused in the future. A political win for 1 month can be a Pyrrhic victory a decade later.
Anyways this problem tends to get exaggerated in raw numbers, Blizzard doesn't pay $0 in taxes. They still pay income taxes, social security, taxes on stuff they sell, local taxes, land taxes, taxes on goods purchased, etc. They can just offset almost all their profit by giving employees stock options. They don't "get" money from the government like some welfare payment if that puts them in the red, they can just carry a portion of that as offset against profits in the future. There is some misinformation being propagated. When those employees sell their stock they pay capital gains taxes, although it also can be mitigated heavily and rich people use similar "offset" tricks to reduce their tax share. Ironically its the poor and middle class who never get any real tax breaks.
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Quoting myself, but couple years ago Supercell as company paid 180 million euros taxes to Finland.
2017 Supercell owners Ilkka Paananen, Mikko Kodisoja ja Janne Snellman paid 63,1 million euros (those three together)
Basically this. They aren't breaking any laws so I don't understand why people would be pissed at them and not the government that allows this.
Because, like the point I was trying to make, there is good chance that some of the manufacturers of products you buy or the publishers you support also don't pay taxes.
It's just that not all of these companies tax info gets released like this.
A lot of big corporations didn't pay taxes. Just to name a few there's also:
Amazon, Nvidia, Netflix, IBM, FedEx
Hope you don't support them or their products because if you do then you support companies not paying any taxes. I mean, you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite right?
Nop, that is wrong.Source:
In fact we the people paid them $228 million
There is no transfer of money. It's just a tax credit.
So they (Activision Blizzard) will pay 228m less in Federal Taxes in future years.
Using just federal tax as a measure is a disingenuous way to go about it. Blizzard, along with all the big companies that pay no federal tax you see in the headlines, still pay taxes on payroll, and sales taxes. The income that management receives, whether it be salary or dividend, is still taxed on a personal level. The reason these companies pay no federal tax is 2 fold: either they have major losses carried forward from prior years (Amazon, Netflix), or they reinvest their profits in to R&D (literally every tech company).
Every single company in the US can take advantage of this, including mom and pop shops. I've seen some truly dumb stuff posted in regards to taxation like tax the revenue or take away R&D incentives. Most major countries have a tax incentive to encourage development opportunities to happen in their country. This is to increase high paying employment, which in turn increases spending & tax revenue in that area. I am Canadian and we have the SR&ED credit across the country, which is why you see many video game studios open up in Canada. I am not here "defending" corporations, but to paint them as some sort of evil boogey man not paying their taxes is ludicrous. And if you don't agree with our tax laws, I am genuinely curious to what suggestions you can come up with.
Source: am accountant
Every single company in the US can take advantage of this, including mom and pop shops. I've seen some truly dumb stuff posted in regards to taxation like tax the revenue or take away R&D incentives. Most major countries have a tax incentive to encourage development opportunities to happen in their country. This is to increase high paying employment, which in turn increases spending & tax revenue in that area. I am Canadian and we have the SR&ED credit across the country, which is why you see many video game studios open up in Canada. I am not here "defending" corporations, but to paint them as some sort of evil boogey man not paying their taxes is ludicrous. And if you don't agree with our tax laws, I am genuinely curious to what suggestions you can come up with.
Source: am accountant
I still don't get it? I obviously want all companies I buy products from to pay taxes, who wouldn't?
I get that you're trying to "gotcha" me, but I'm really not following your logic here? If the companies don't pay taxes, why shouldn't I be allowed to criticize them? Unless I was also dodging taxes, but I'm not, sooooo?
First of all thank you for this well informed post. Additionally regarding the bolded, from what I understand, a lot of companies will prevent you from selling those stocks for quite a while and you may even lose them if you resign/lose your job before that time is up. At least that's how some of the big investment banks handle it.
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