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Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Jim's recent video is very poignant.

The same Jim Sterling that had a recent video where he actually expressed hope that EA would go under, leading to massive layoffs at one of the best employers of developers in the industry? A sentiment that has been echoed by several members on this forum?

Crocodile tears are in abundance these days.
 

Deleted member 2441

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
655
Severance is a thing
Garbage take. Helps financially sure, but being laid off has many other negative effects that can be alleviated by having time to find something new. Especially in this industry, where it could often mean moving your family across the country or the world.

Look beyond money.
 

kaishek

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,144
Texas
That is not the point. No matter how much profits you make one year. You are expected to top it the next year, that is the problem with capitalism. They are not struggling for money but they need more profit. So if they make 15 millions last year and they make 10 million then that is a failure and the stocks drop.

I think we agree my dude, I'm just saying that this status quo is insane.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
They're Blizzard peeps, any company would be lucky to have them. And they'll be better appreciated elsewhere than in the Activision hellhole.
Yeah, seems that way, but even though I haven't played recent Blizzard stuff I think it's sad to see the bubble burst. I always looked to Blizzard as one of the few companies that totally retained their core despite being part of a big megacorporation.
 

Bionic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
768
If you are suggesting that I'm implying "fake news" - you are completely misunderstanding my post. I'm implying that people should hold journalists to a higher standard.

I don't know how you could have interpreted my post as anti-ethical journalism.
I will lay out for you what you are missing, and why people are comparing your post to Trump-isms.

Ethical journalists have sources. They confirm those sources whenever possible. They have an ethical reponsibility to protect those sources, as well as a professional interest in building and maintaining relationships with their sources so that they can continue to do their job in the future. That means writing a sourced article without naming sources who do no wish to be named, if that's the agreement the journalist comes to with the source. Of course it would boost the article's credibility to name every source. If a journalist promised sources anonymity and then put their names in the article, sources would not trust the journalist anymore, and they would stop being able to get sources to talk to them again. So even though it would boost the credibility of that one article, it would mean they can't do their job as well in the future, and they would be viewed very negatively by lots of people for a breach of professional ethics. If a source comes to a journalist and says "I have info I can share with you, on the condition that you keep me anonymous", and the journalist says "I will not keep you anonymous, I will write your name in the article", then that source will not give the information. So that's a very brief explanation of why people are rolling their eyes when you assume that just because the article doesn't cite sources by name, that it's not based on information from solid sources. You are implying that the journalist just decided "I will make up a story that people are worried about being laid off today". That's nonsensical.

Donald Trump claims that anonymized quotes are made up, and that reporters make up things when quoting sources, named or otherwise. He also seems to lack a basic understanding of how journalism works. Some posters saw an analogous lack of understanding, plus willingness to express a judgmental opinion on the topic despite lacking understanding of it, in your post. In general, if people compared my lack of understanding + still weighing in on a topic to Donald Trump, I would probably take some time to reflect more deeply on what my threshold is for "how much I know about a topic" and "whether I am going to be contributing by saying something about it".
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,970
I don't know what the right way is to announce layoffs, but this certainly does not seem to be the best way to go about it.

It's an unfortunate situation, but not really divorced from layoff rounds anywhere else. Only reason we're hearing about it is because Activision is big enough that it's newsworthy.

The other option would be a sudden layoff that comes out of the blue, and that's no better. I've gotten hit w/ that in a previous workplace and while I certainly wouldn't care to draw out the tension over the weekend instead it still leaves you with many questions and 10 minutes to clean out your desk you've been at for the last 5 years. We all learn eventually that the workplace 'family' is only a family as long as your employer finds you convenient.

Writing this and realizing I've become a jaded old man a long time ago. Hope these guys land on their feet and manage to keep their passion at whatever place they end up.
 

YuriLowell

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,547
Why does Jason Schreier never have a single source?

Even in his articles, it's always "according to one person", "speaking with someone familiar with the company"... etc.
Maybe, how long can a people survive with their severance in the United States?

Plus, if people fear for their job is because they know they probably wont be able to find another one on a short notice. Not to mention the punch in the gut from being laid off.
Depends on the severance.
Most places aren't legally obligated to give you shit.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Maybe, how long can a people survive with their severance in the United States?

Plus, if people fear for their job is because they know they probably wont be able to find another one on a short notice. Not to mention the punch in the gut from being laid off.
3 months salary is pretty common for a mid-range role in the California gaming industry. Plenty to find a new job.

Junior employees probably get nothing.
 

FeArTriX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
194
Man I'm glad that the only game that I play from them is destiny and it is no longer thier IP.

Hope the employees can land on thier feet.
 

XDevil666

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,985
Horrible news all around, lots of talent and I'm sure some of them will go to much greater things for them and for the industry
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Christ's sake. It's absolutely worthless with you lot once the cogs start rolling.

I'm not suggesting he's lying and I understand the concepts that have been quoted/linked to me 30 times over perfectly well (well, not the claims that I'm a facist of some sort). Nevermind - I don't need to explain myself if you've all made up your mind.

I'm assuming if another journalist came forward with conflicting reports to Schreier and also said they had "a source" - you would all just have a breakdown?

You haven't even attempted to explain yourself except to suggest that naming sources is a higher standard we should hold journalists to. That's simply not true as has been explained to you repeatedly, yet you haven't bothered to respond to any of those explanations with why you think endangering the well being of sources is something we should expect from journalists. You did however take your time to talk down to another poster about how they don't understand the basics of the real world. That's comical, given your avoidance of everyone responding to your own ridiculous statement.

If your entire reasoning is that there's no way we can trust journalists if they don't tell us who they're talking to, that comes across as paranoid at best and frankly it really seems like gaming journalism is the only news you read if you think this is somehow rare and exclusive to Schreier's reporting.

I would assume most people don't want to condescend to you to explain how a journalist determines which sources to trust enough to report as fact, how that impacts their reputation, and how the reader can then use context and previous body of work to determine what and who they trust, but it seriously seems like you don't understand any of these basic concepts if you're going to suggest that some random other person saying exactly the opposite of Schreier would A.) even be likely and B.) something that should be immediately evaluated as equally trustworthy without any context.

If you understand these concepts, it would probably be helpful to demonstrate that with anything you're saying.
 

Tempy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
This is not the fuck-up. This is the fix.
The fuck-up happened years ago, cumulatively, when Blizzard started to bloat into an unnavigable bureaucracy whose only solution to its problems was to hire and spend. In this period, it managed to not only destroy its own storied franchises, but hemorrhage talent to competitors, while taking on way too much junior staff that languished on ailing projects.

So really, this was inevitable and needed, from what I've heard.

This isn't the fix. They're not getting rid of the people who decide business strategy and what kind of games to make. Until they do, they will keep making bad decisions regarding their games. This is just to appease their stock holders who demand more profit every year.
 

Bhonar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,066
That particular expansion was being developed before the merger I'm pretty sure.
WotLK and BC were my favorite expansions as a WoW player, but after the last couple patches for WotLK the content kept getting worse (the notable exception being MoP, which I thought was good for the most part). and now I honestly find the game unplayable and there's little incentive to go back to it. Never cared much for Hearthstone and Overwatch, and StarCraft and Diablo have kind of been flatlining.

What I'm trying to say is that Blizzard feels a lot more profit-oriented now and less focused on quality content than it did before, and I'm pretty sure the merger played a huge part in that.
ok then we'll just disagree on the WoW points

I still liked every expansion pretty well from WotLK on

In fact Legion is my favorite expansion, even slightly ahead of WotLK. Legion to me is perfect WoW and was incredible amounts of content, I love every single thing about Legion. So I don't see any bad Activision influence in Legion

BFA sucks for sure now
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
This isn't the fix. They're not getting rid of the people who decide business strategy and what kind of games to make. Until they do, they will keep making bad decisions regarding their games. This is just to appease their stock holders who demand more profit every year.
Luckily the people who made some of those toxic decisions are already gone.
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
Christ's sake. It's absolutely worthless with you lot once the cogs start rolling.

I'm not suggesting he's lying and I understand the concepts that have been quoted/linked to me 30 times over perfectly well (well, not the claims that I'm a facist of some sort). Nevermind - I don't need to explain myself if you've all made up your mind.

I'm assuming if another journalist came forward with conflicting reports to Schreier and also said they had "a source" - you would all just have a breakdown?

I find it baffling that the concept of anonymous sources somehow escapes you.

Anonymous sources are a pillar of investigative journalism.

Just pay attention when reading/watching news how often anonymous sources are cited.

It's the most normal thing in the world.

You're NOT onto something.

You embarrassed yourself a bit.

You should probably stop.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Why does Jason Schreier never have a single source?

Even in his articles, it's always "according to one person", "speaking with someone familiar with the company"... etc.
He always seems very opinionated in his articles to me, even some parts of Blood, Sweat & Pixels. The last interviews I heard with him he kept bringing up the issue of crunch, issue of unionizing and the issue of CEOs getting paid more than the rest. I don't doubt it's true though, but back when he reported that there was also a mainline Diablo coming, I took it he had been told by some PR guy from Blizzard to put out the fire, and increasingly I find myself taking what JSchreier says with a grain of salt. Cuz I feel like he doesn't always back it up.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
This isn't the fix. They're not getting rid of the people who decide business strategy and what kind of games to make. Until they do, they will keep making bad decisions regarding their games. This is just to appease their stock holders who demand more profit every year.
How do you know they haven't?
 

sandboxgod

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,919
Austin, Texas
Hopefully everyone lands on their feet and Blizzard doesn't kick them out with nothing. Hopefully a severance and insurance for a couple months will be given at the very least.
The industry standard is normally a small severance (which varies by employee) and you have to pay out of pocket to extend your insurance past a month. There is no sugar coating this.... It sucks (here in US)
 

Shoreu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
Blizzard need to get away from Activision. Doubt thats even possible but I'd hate to see one of the best in the business get drug down with this nonsense
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
I find it baffling that the concept of anonymous sources somehow escapes you.

Anonymous sources are a pillar of investigative journalism.

Just pay attention when reading/watching news how often anonymous sources are cited.

It's the most normal thing in the world.

You're NOT onto something.

You embarrassed yourself a bit.

You should probably stop.

Lmao the user requested a ban on himself
What a jackass
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,124
Chicago
Jesus fucking Christ, this industry is a damn meat grinder that chews you up and spits you back out. Best of luck to everyone losing their jobs today, hopefully you're back on your feet soon.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
He always seems very opinionated in his articles to me, even some parts of Blood, Sweat & Pixels. The last interviews I heard with him he kept bringing up the issue of crunch, issue of unionizing and the issue of CEOs getting paid more than the rest. I don't doubt it's true though, but back when he reported that there was also a mainline Diablo coming, I took it he had been told by some PR guy from Blizzard to put out the fire, and increasingly I find myself taking what JSchreier says with a grain of salt. Cuz I feel like he doesn't always back it up.

So you don't trust Jason because you think he says too many negative things about the corporate heads of Blizzard, who you think he is also directly reporting to?
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
The same Jim Sterling that had a recent video where he actually expressed hope that EA would go under, leading to massive layoffs at one of the best employers of developers in the industry? A sentiment that has been echoed by several members on this forum?

Crocodile tears are in abundance these days.
People are selective and have very short memories.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
This is not the fuck-up. This is the fix.
The fuck-up happened years ago, cumulatively, when Blizzard started to bloat into an unnavigable bureaucracy whose only solution to its problems was to hire and spend. In this period, it managed to not only destroy its own storied franchises, but hemorrhage talent to competitors, while taking on way too much junior staff that languished on ailing projects.

So really, this was inevitable and needed, from what I've heard.

And how much of that is on "Hey guys, see instead of that Diablo 2 follow up, can we get a RMAH and other gambling shit going because our forecasts need to be at an "unobtainable" high, but this is what we demand of you anyway and it's your head on the chopping block if you don't succeed".

But hey, that's how it works, if the higher-ups fuckup and make a mess of project planning and sustainability, you just fire a load of the "grunt workers" whilst you keep getting your big bonus. At worst you get your fat pay off and leave the corpse behind whilst going into the same corporate position at another company.

It's almost as if you cannot make every game a GAAS money printing project. No matter how hard you try. But it's expected. It's always expected.

Your loyal community often tells you how to make the fun game they want to play, and I know many devs will agree, but they'll be muzzled by managers and project leads who've been set the task of not just making a lot of money, but needing to make all the money.
 

Finaj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,360
Blizzard need to get away from Activision. Doubt thats even possible but I'd hate to see one of the best in the business get drug down with this nonsense

Blizzard -is- Activision. It's not like the partnership Bungie had with Activision. They can't just get up and leave. They're the same company.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,046
This is not the fuck-up. This is the fix.
The fuck-up happened years ago, cumulatively, when Blizzard started to bloat into an unnavigable bureaucracy whose only solution to its problems was to hire and spend. In this period, it managed to not only destroy its own storied franchises, but hemorrhage talent to competitors, while taking on way too much junior staff that languished on ailing projects.

So really, this was inevitable and needed, from what I've heard.

Yeah, I think pretty much no one is actually happy at all about people losing their jobs, but at the same time you can recognize that there were likely some pretty serious organizational issues that were going to make this sort of thing inevitable.

It's not a fuck up, but it is FUCKED UP. From what your saying, the upper management of these companies are at fault while junior employees suffer. They have huge, venerable names with and storied legacies yet the can't insure job security. It's a terrible day for hundreds of people and you're coming off quite callus. In an ideal world maybe some of upper management should be laid off because of their horrible practices and funds should be reappropriated for projects so they run more smoothly and enable job security.

Shit rolls down hill. It fucking sucks but it's the way of the world.
 

BrucCLea13k87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,947
This is not the fuck-up. This is the fix.
The fuck-up happened years ago, cumulatively, when Blizzard started to bloat into an unnavigable bureaucracy whose only solution to its problems was to hire and spend. In this period, it managed to not only destroy its own storied franchises, but hemorrhage talent to competitors, while taking on way too much junior staff that languished on ailing projects.

So really, this was inevitable and needed, from what I've heard.


It's not a fuck up, but it is FUCKED UP. From what your saying, the upper management of these companies are at fault while junior employees suffer. They have huge, venerable names with and storied legacies yet the can't insure job security. It's a terrible day for hundreds of people and you're coming off quite callus. In an ideal world maybe some of upper management should be laid off because of their horrible practices and funds should be reappropriated for projects so they run more smoothly and enable job security.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
User Banned (3 Days) - Conspiracy Theories & Personal Attacks against a Member
So you don't trust Jason because you think he says too many negative things about the corporate heads of Blizzard, who you think he is also directly reporting to?
I don't think he's reporting to Blizzard lol, but I think he took their PR and decided to report it as truth without second thought and because it gave a good headline. Everything Kotaku does is for clicks.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
The industry standard is normally a small severance (which varies by employee) and you have to pay out of pocket to extend your insurance past a month. There is no sugar coating this.... It sucks (here in US)
Damn, I forgot that in the US, no job means no access to health service. That's so shitty. There's always going to be job layoffs, no matter the industry, but people should expect some kind of safety net if the worst happens.
From the OP, on Jason's message:



Those departments are not the ones making the big money making financial decisions.
I didn't mean necessarily this round of layoffs. Higher ups that are seen to hace fucked up are often made to go and then it looks like the person decided to go. I wouldn't assume that the people who decided to keep investing in departments that were not working are still at the company.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,124
Chicago
Is this a bad joke? Why would a Blizzard employee want to go on the record with this info?
Would "my source John Doe tells me that he's in the parking lot crying and hugging his coworkers" really help this along for you?

Plus, Jason could tell me that three plus two was 12 and I would barely bother questioning him, his record is solid.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
And how much of that is on "Hey guys, see instead of that Diablo 2 follow up, can we get a RMAH and other gambling shit going because our forecasts need to be at an "unobtainable" high".

But hey, that's how it works, if the higher-ups fuckup and make a mess of project planning and sustainability, you just fire a load of the "grunt workers" whilst you keep getting your big bonus.

It's almost as if you cannot make every game a GAAS money printing project. No matter how hard you try. But it's expected. It's always expected.
Lol, go ask Jay Wilson how his Blizzard career turned out. Actually, you'd have an interesting time looking at the LinkedIns of many D3 team members.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
Full disclosure: I am a Blizzard employee

Sometimes I wonder why people want to be the anonymous sources for this sort of thing. Most of the people I know here would never want to say that sort of thing publicly until there's an actual reason to do so. All this does is elevate the already incredibly tense atmosphere around campus. It just seems irresponsible and not at all in the interest of our employees.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,009
Layoffs and restructuring at Blizzard has seemed inevitable for a long time now. I think Overwatch being such a hit saved their bacon for a while, but if you look at how the studio has performed for many years now in terms of releasing software vs cancellations and delays, it's obvious something is fucked up with how they work. It's particularly concerning when you consider the size of the studio.
 

unfashionable

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,072
so presumably the talent at blizzard ends up forming their own company

disgusting that the creators of some of the most profitable products of all time are treated like this.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I hope for the best for them whether they remain at Blizzard or not.

The industry needs a union big time.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Lol, go ask Jay Wilson how his Blizzard career turned out. Actually, you'd have an interesting time looking at the LinkedIns of many D3 team members.

And how much did Blizzard learn from that? How badly do you think Blizzard higher-ups want the RMAH coming back or the loot in Diablo 4 somehow exploited monetarily? They're that desperate to make Diablo yet another cash-clone/gambling project the limelight is now a mobile game by Tencent.

Also as I said, how many of the "grunt workers" could go into Blizzard and tell Jay Wilson the project was going in the wrong way? The only reason management did anything, in the end, was because of sustained colossal negativity, shitposting, anger and a true sense of the brand PR going down the drain. Jay Wilson telling an ex-Diablo legend to fuck off didn't help either. That was his arrogance and totally on him. Making such arrogance public often risks your career.

Blizzard's higher-up hierarchy has been utterly poisoned and it's been coming across for years now. Even WoW loyalists are utterly turning on the company. The Activision merger certainly hasn't helped. Most of these leads/higher-ups aren't the ones shitcanned though, it's the regular workers.
 

Altrich

Member
Apr 5, 2018
735
I hate that we are in a world here you have so many idiots who act like journalists should be expected to name their sources. It's an unfathomable timeline.

I feel that too but it still nothing compared to reading so many responses with 'fuck capitalism', I get that capitalism sucks sometimes but seriously what's the significantly better alternative?

I actually had to deal with situation similar like this myself (created a model on how much saving we can have by rationalizing headcounts, outsourcing, sharing asset, discontinuing verticals, etc), ended up shaving the headcounts and its some of the worst feeling ever.. And trust me not all upper management are heartless bastards that can get away with anything, its tough decision for them too and most times they'd actually took a paycut, demoted (got assigned a new 'supervisory' role by the BOC), or even get the axe themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,972
Canada
Christ's sake. It's absolutely worthless with you lot once the cogs start rolling.

I'm not suggesting he's lying and I understand the concepts that have been quoted/linked to me 30 times over perfectly well (well, not the claims that I'm a facist of some sort). Nevermind - I don't need to explain myself if you've all made up your mind.

I'm assuming if another journalist came forward with conflicting reports to Schreier and also said they had "a source" - you would all just have a breakdown?

That moment when you make yourself look like an idiot and you respond by making fun of the users and disabling your account before the responses start flowing in instead of just taking the L.
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
The news is really sad, but the output of blizzard games has really dropped , still don't know what they were thinking with diablo mobile game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,238
3 months salary is pretty common for a mid-range role in the California gaming industry. Plenty to find a new job.

Junior employees probably get nothing.
My girlfriend got a pretty good severance when she got laid off last year, but she hasnt found a new job yet, and that money is drying up pretty fast. Granted, we do not live in the US, but we live in an area where her skills should be pretty much in demand, with a cost of living much lower than California.

So 3 months is not enough time, sadly :/
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,094
Full disclosure: I am a Blizzard employee

Sometimes I wonder why people want to be the anonymous sources for this sort of thing. Most of the people I know here would never want to say that sort of thing publicly until there's an actual reason to do so. All this does is elevate the already incredibly tense atmosphere around campus. It just seems irresponsible and not at all in the interest of our employees.
I think there are a lot of reasons, and I totally hear you re: making things more tense. I gave it a lot of thought before I shared this. But ultimately, I think it's really important for the outside world to understand and empathize with what's been happening here, and how fucked up it is that these rumors have just been lingering for months without a word from management.
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,124
Chicago
This is the actual mindset I was criticizing before Phantom got on me.
Well I'm obviously being hyperbolic but the gist is that I hardly read a report by Jason and think "Hmm, doubt it." He's earned at least that much, certainly.

Plus, the idea that a notoriously vicious company let their employees fear for their jobs without assuring them or outright telling them that they're on the chopping block until the absolute last minute leaving the employees to rightfully panic and get emotional certainly isn't far fetched.