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EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
Wonder why no 3d audio on Series X? It's available right?

edit: Xbox conotrollers have haptic feedback in the triggers as well correct? Not the same type as PS5, but it's there. Is this paid exclusive controller and audio features? lol.

Modern warefare uses Microsoft Spatial sound/ Dolby Atmos, so I imagine they will be there again.

Even then, like many games it simply simulates a few life speaker setup.
I will be interested to see how far beyond that 3rd parties will Try with PS5
 
Last edited:

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,126
My OLED is going to love this gen! 120hz refresh rate!!!

Honestly hope they incorporate an option for gyro.
 
Jan 11, 2020
493
Wonder why no 3d audio on Series X? It's available right?

edit: Xbox conotrollers have haptic feedback in the triggers as well correct? Not the same type as PS5, but it's there. Is this paid exclusive controller and audio features? lol.
No 3D audio because its a Sony thing.. Maybe Xbox got DTS X, dolby atmos or the like.
Xbox usually support industry standards while sony does not, in favour of their own thing.

Likewise im pretty dure Dolby Vision wont make an entrance on PS5 but is confirmed for SX and SS (wow)..
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,273
I think people are just wondering why they didn't mention 3D Audio support for Series X/S, which is probably a result of marketing deals. Same reason Ubisoft announced that AC Valhalla would be 4k/60 on Series X but didn't mention PS5.

I assume because 3D Audio is a new feature that the majority of Playstation owners haven't been able to use unless they bought Sony's headsets. No reason to announce a feature for Xbox that's not new.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,846
Not only already does, but SX also has a dedicated hardware 3D audio just as good as Sony (by DF analysis of Hot Chips Conference). So the omission here is pretty puzzling....
It's far from being as good. When compared directly using their own statements (apple vs apple) PS5 can handle 5000 sound sources, XSX only "hundreds".
 

MrFox

VFX Rendering Pipeline Developer
Verified
Jun 8, 2020
1,435
Sony is the only company that addressed the complexity of importing your own HRTF ear geometry mapping, which is the foundation of the PS5's 3D Audio and is a console-wide approach. All other binaural techniques are using a generic map (as far as I know).

While devs can always implement their own generic algorithm, this time it's necessary to use the system approach since gamers will choose or import their personal HRTF once on the console instead of fiddling for each game, or using a generic implementation that wouldn't fit them correctly. So on the Sony side, you want all games to support the platform's integrated 3D Audio instead devs implementing their own.

There's nothing in the hotchip presentation that convinced me the xbox is anywhere near that level of implementation.
 

dmix90

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,885
Sony is allergic to anything Dolby related, hopefully it's not mentioned only because they have a marketing deal with them and Atmos will be available on PC and Xbox.
 

Deleted member 9584

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,132
Since PS5 has confirmed 120hz games, does this mean it supports VRR? I can't find any info online about it...0
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,526
Brazil
Sony is the only company that addressed the complexity of importing your own HRTF ear geometry mapping, which is the foundation of the PS5's 3D Audio and is a console-wide approach. All other binaural techniques are using a generic map (as far as I know).

While devs can always implement their own generic algorithm, this time it's necessary to use the system approach since gamers will choose or import their personal HRTF once on the console instead of fiddling for each game, or using a generic implementation that wouldn't fit them correctly. So on the Sony side, you want all games to support the platform's integrated 3D Audio instead devs implementing their own.
I thought Sony approach was different because it aims to be universal, so you'd need only a pair of stereo headsets. AFAIK, today on Xbox you'd need an system/headset with the Dolby Atmos thing. Am I wrong? Nice input, btw.
 

Zachary_Games

Member
Jul 31, 2020
2,962
The graphics are surprisingly good for a next-gen debut. I'm assuming the 120hz is for multiplayer, not the SP footage with RT we saw in the trailer?

I mean, if what we saw in the trailer is 4K, 120hz, RT, with that image quality for a SP campaign... then this generation is going to be absolutely remarkable.
 

J-Skee

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,107
Sony is allergic to anything Dolby related, hopefully it's not mentioned only because they have a marketing deal with them and Atmos will be available on PC and Xbox.
Well Atmos for sure isn't coming to the PS5, but it's insane if Cold War doesn't support Atmos on Xbox.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
I thought Sony approach was different because it aims to be universal, so you'd need only a pair of stereo headsets. AFAIK, today on Xbox you'd need an system/headset with the Dolby Atmos thing. Am I wrong? Nice input, btw.

No, it works the same, any stereo headset.

Games output using a standard API
Users can choose between Microsoft's 3D HRTF for headphones
Or they can pay for a branded HRTF using a different algorithm, there is DTS-X headphones and Dolby Atmos for Headphones.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,728
USA
As a PC gamer (and someone with a ton of headphones) I'm jealous of the 3d audio on the new consoles. 3d audio is so limited on PC, largely due to Creative being assholes.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
As a PC gamer (and someone with a ton of headphones) I'm jealous of the 3d audio on the new consoles. 3d audio is so limited on PC, largely due to Creative being assholes.
The same 3D audio API that Xbox uses is available on PC
  • Gears 5.
  • Gears of War 4.
  • Shadow of the Tomb Raider.
  • For Honor.
  • Forza Horizon 4.
  • Resident Evil 2.
  • Metro: Exodus.
  • The Division II
plus some others all support it
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
They have something (Dolby Atmos support I think), but I'm not sure it's a dedicated processor like the PS5

This is the most information I've found, it's just a Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/XboxSeries...fication_on_xbox_series_x_audio_specifically/
XSX does also have a dedicated hardware accelerated audio processor:
www.newsbreak.com

Xbox Series X audio chip will provide hardware accelerated 3D audio - NewsBreak

Microsoft’s next-generation console will benefit from 3D audio powered by a hardware accelerated Xbox Series X audio chip. Revealed by employees at the Microsoft-owned Ninja Theory in an article by VGC, the Xbox Series X audio chip may be used for ray-traced audio to create more realistic 3D...

And even Xbox One X supports 3D audio, in games like Gears 4/5 for example.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
Wonder why no 3d audio on Series X? It's available right?

edit: Xbox conotrollers have haptic feedback in the triggers as well correct? Not the same type as PS5, but it's there. Is this paid exclusive controller and audio features? lol.
Xbox will likely support surround sound, likely dolby atmos. There's a fundamental and principally different approach to the 3d audio tech. Dolby approximates where a sound should come from and does it's best to use the speakers you have to make the sound come from that space. It's why it theortically supports up to 32 speakers, because the more speakers you have, the more fidelity you can place the sound source with.

HRTF 3D audio is different. you only have two ear holes. your brain is really good at interpreting how sounds hits your ears, how it reverberates in your head, etc. to take those two holes and give you a sense of above, back and to there right, etc. HRTF audio says, you only need two speakers for your two holes, and if we can replicate the way that sounds bounce of your ears and in your head with advanced processing, we can make the sound feel like it's coming from anywhere. That's why Cerny talked about taking a picture of your ear.

HRTF 3D audio can give you a full sphere of sound, while something like atmos can give you a dome, sitting on top of you provided you have speakers in enough places to approximate the sound direction.

HRTF 3D audio has the ability to be available to anyone with a pair of headphones, where as Atmos is the standard today but requires atmos speakers/equiptment. I have atmos today from a discrete atmos set up, but the HRTF 3D audio demos can give a sense of precision that I've never experienced from atmos. Sound can even sound like it's in your head.

Brining it back to call of duty, it's not a given that devs will support the necessary processing to give that 3D audio, the tempest engine can be used for something else if they want, so what they are doing is just saying "we're taking advantage of it"


"Haptic" is getting thrown around with different meanings. The Xbox controller and the dual shock 4 have rumble motors while the Dual sense has voice coil actuators. The difference is like a car horn vs speaker. The level of fidelity you can get out of voice coil actuators is just a different league over rumble motors, or even the "haptics" in the Switch. None of the 3 haptic techs are the same.

Again, as with he 3D audio, you still have to take advantage of it, and that's all they are saying.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
HRTF 3D audio

So not the Tempest Engine but it's still a PlayStation exclusive. Wow that's something else smfh. Plenty of games on PC have this so I'm not sure why it's being locked to one platform.
 

Legacy

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,704
I don't have a 120hz monitor or TV but at least I'll get 60 @ 4K. That's sweet
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,444
Underground
Not like there's many 120hz supported games announced anyway, but I expect it to become an even more rare feature on consoles as we move into next gen only software, at least as far as the bigger budget games go. Still, it's cool that it's achievable at all. I think my TV does true 120hz @ 1080p so I'll def be giving one of these supported games a try.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
HRTF 3D audio

So not the Tempest Engine but it's still a PlayStation exclusive. Wow that's something else smfh. Plenty of games on PC have this so I'm not sure why it's being locked to one platform.

It won't be , just the marketing deal means they talk about the PS5 version.

Just like AC: Valhalla got announced as being 4K/120hz on Xbox but PS5 was not mentioned.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,526
Brazil
Nevermind, it support 3D audio everywhere but it seems HRTF only on PS5.

Black Ops Cold War features enhanced in-game audio, including 3D audio support on next-gen and PC, and a complete acoustic model to provide an authentic sound experience on all platforms. This allows sound waves to be delayed, reflected, and obstructed by geometry accurately, dynamically changing as players and other sound sources navigate through complex scenes.

We've also incorporated a new Threat Priority audio system that dynamically assigns higher priorities to direct threats during a firefight, so you always hear what you need to be successful. Shots are louder and sound different when an enemy is firing toward you; directional footsteps help determine the proximity and position of your enemies above, below, and around; directional bullet cracks and bullet impacts let you know where the highest threats are located; and improved occlusion provides more detail about the direction and distance of events all around you. On top of all this, next-generation hardware supports awesome 3D audio features, like HRTF on the PlayStation®5.
 
Nov 29, 2019
2,069
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
It's far from being as good. When compared directly using their own statements (apple vs apple) PS5 can handle 5000 sound sources, XSX only "hundreds".

The same goes for 3D audio, which has made me think a lot about marketing and presentation. Sony made a remarkable pitch for a revolution in 3D audio with PlayStation 5 with its Tempest Engine, talking about hundreds of audio sources accurately positioned in 3D space - yet Microsoft has essentially made the same pitch with its own hardware, which also has the HRTF support that the Tempest Engine has. Microsoft hasn't made any specific promises about mapping 3D audio to the individual's specific HRTF, but then again, Sony hasn't really told us how it plans to get that data for each player. I'll be interested to see how this all shakes out once the consoles are out and software is available.

www.eurogamer.net

Xbox Series X silicon: the Hot Chips 2020 breakdown

Earlier this week, Microsoft took part in the Hot Chips 2020 symposium to deliver its now traditional console silicon b…

But honestly, whatever floats your boat. The same thing exists in the Xbox SX and it's puzzling to see it missing from the console :D
 

Deleted member 24021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,772
Wonder why no 3d audio on Series X? It's available right?

edit: Xbox conotrollers have haptic feedback in the triggers as well correct? Not the same type as PS5, but it's there. Is this paid exclusive controller and audio features? lol.

The Dualsense has haptic rumble in the controller and adaptive triggers. That's completely different from the rumble motors in the Xbox controller triggers.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
It's interesting that they don't mention HRTF support for Xbox, given that we know XSX also has hardware accelerated support for HRTF.

I am pulling out of my ass the assumption that it's part of the marketing partnership, given that Sony has really been pushing the 3D audio features of PS5.
I see a lot of inferences, but has MS themselves said they support HRTF with Xbox?

Spacial audio could mean processing sound bounces only, 3D audio could mean output to dolby atmos only.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
I swear to god MW2019 had HRTF, at least that's what it sounds like on my computer
It does.
It uses the Microsoft Spatial API, so you can output Dolby Atmos or Windows Sonic or DTs-X


I see a lot of inferences, but has MS themselves said they support HRTF with Xbox?

Spacial audio could mean processing sound bounces only, 3D audio could mean output to dolby atmos only.
All current gen Xbox's offer HRTF encoding. There are 3 HRTFs
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Curious if the haptic stuff moves over to Warzone as well on dualsense- might be the way I can test out if Cold War is gonna be worth it.
 

FRANKEINSTEIN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
AZ
Ugh. My tv can't do 120hz. I doubt my wife will let me upgrade a new tv anytime soon too. But something to look forward to in few years maybe... Or what if something happened to my current living room TV and I had to bring the game room tv to living room and buy a new tv for game room.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,670
Wonder why no 3d audio on Series X? It's available right?

edit: Xbox conotrollers have haptic feedback in the triggers as well correct? Not the same type as PS5, but it's there. Is this paid exclusive controller and audio features? lol.
The rumble triggers from the Xbox controller are not remotelly similar to haptic triggers of the Dualsense.