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Bob The Skull

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
177
Chicago
For the sake of argument, even if this disagreement hasn't started as a racist incident, the moment they choke the victim with the knee it became one.

They were Nazis the hatred against non whites is Nazi 101 which defines their nature of association with other people.

We also do not know the level of acquaintance of the victim, they could be friends when they were 9 or so before Nazi happens.

I think that the Danish police is ignoring the fact of the murderers being racists as if they want to toss it under the rug because it makes them uncomfortable.
We know that the people used as sources in media characterise them as friendly. Not friendly 10 years ago.
Imagine thinking a goddamn Nazi killed a black guy and thinking race had nothing to do with it. Maybe he decided to kill him for reasons other than race - But would he kill a white guy over the same disagreement whatever it was? Will he have killed a white person the same way?
And what will the reaction to this crime will be? How will other neo-nazis react to this? can you ignore the 500 metric tons of racial context here?

And doing this while vehemently defending the Danish police - Well you know, it's "ALL cops are bastards", not "All cops, except for the Danish police which is of course very fact based and will not create a narrative that downplays the racism inherent in this crime! - are bastards."

What a fucking hill to die on.
Yes - do bring in the cops integrity to this and cast it in an American light. That's going to go over just fine (see the post above yours).

I have no idea about how the suspect makes his decisions - so I can not say one way or the other how race affected this. Neither can you. We can both speculate - that's easy, I just did that on the post you didn't like. I assumed (because that seems likely) that the suspects racism made it worse.
Having a nazi tattoo and being a white supremacist isn't evidence enough eh? No evidence at all that dudes racial beliefs might have resulted in him going a bit too far where he might not have with someone who was white?

That's what we doing now? Giving racists the benefit of the doubt?
No we are not. However, In a country where police is not supposed to communicate unqualified guesswork to the media we have to accept that given an existing non-race related motive the police is not likely to say "based on a tatoos and post history on social media we assume that this is driven by race".

Also - he killed a guy, he didn't "go a bit too far". As for the role of race the police is well aware that it may play a secondary role (presumably in degree of violence etc.) that is clear from the media articles I have read. In light of this they still maintain that the primary factor was a disagreement that people around the victim/suspects knew about.
I'm gonna flip it to your logic when you mentioned rape but do most rape or sexual assault victims not know their rapist? Were they not friendly at one point?

Please stop trying to back white supremacists.
The.
signs.
are.
right.
there.

They were friendly sure but the method and his mindset clearly leads to something that was at least race related. That's fucking evidence.
I am not backing white supremacists. I'm communicating that inference like you illustrate here is not going to be communicated by the Danish police when they have evidence that points to a pre-existing disagreement.

As for the methods and mindset making it clear that the instigating incident was race related I find that to be reductive. That would mean that whatever crime he would commit it would always be race related if the other person was PoC. I find it just as likely that he decided to kill the guy for other reasons and then made it excessively violent with a background in race.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,628
Tel Aviv
We could really do without the massive generalizations and hyperbole behind 'all cops are evil'. It does not help.
As long as cops are the guardians of systematic racism worldwide, all of them are bastards - Regardless of being evil as individuals.

Absolutely. It is just a bit different, and we learned very well from our sins during WWII. The prejudices are different but just as miserable
Dude, WW2 was less than 100 years ago, have some humility - Not enough time has passed so that we can declare "the lesson has been learned." As a Moroccan Jew I can tell you - Some of the prejudices are not all that different.
 

Deleted member 50374

alt account
Banned
Dec 4, 2018
2,482
As long as cops are the guardians of systematic racism worldwide, all of them are bastards - Regardless of being evil as individuals.


Dude, WW2 was less than 100 years ago, have some humility - Not enough time has passed so that we can declare "the lesson has been learned." As a Moroccan Jew I can tell you - Some of the prejudices are not all that different.
Yeah, maybe it's too hopeful.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,095
What do you mean?

Back in the 1920s the hate for hebrews was another thing entirely from today. It isn't gone unfortunately, but the average person has nothing against hebraism.
I just think that the true test for Europe regarding antisemitism and other forms of extremely destructive xenophobia and racism start now, when WW 2 starts too truly be an event in the distant past.
 

Crimsonskies

Alt account
Banned
Nov 1, 2019
700
Our continent isn't getting bonus points. It's different, not better or worse.

Our cops do get violent, but usually they're violent with commies and students (but no guns).



Absolutely. It is just a bit different, and we learned very well from our sins during WWII. The prejudices are different but just as miserable
Absolutely. It is just a bit different, and we learned very well from our sins during WWII. The prejudices are different but just as miserable

We have not learned from our sins there are anti semitic attacks in Germany that was so bad Angela Merkel felt the need to adress it.

There are teenagers and even people in their mid twenties who does not know what the holocaust is or has very limited knowledge about ww2 in general.

And old ideologies are popping back up again jesus christ have you seen the direction european politics have gone in recently ? Marine Le Pen almost became president in France her father was a Holocaust denier for goddsake.

Far right political parties are gaining power in different parts of Europe blaming migrants for all of europes ills, unemployment and the risk of a financial crisis also does not help matters.

This is reminds me of the political situation Europe in the thirties leading up to ww2 and the rise of Hitler and facism because when things get bad one group of people will blame another group of people for all of societies ills.

We have not learned WE ARE MAKING THE SAME DAMN MISTAKES.
 

Deleted member 50374

alt account
Banned
Dec 4, 2018
2,482
Agreed

We have not learned from our sins there are anti semitic attacks in Germany that was so bad Angela Merkel felt the need to adress it.

There are teenagers and even people in their mid twenties who does not know what the holocaust is or has very limited knowledge about ww2 in general.

And old ideologies are popping back up again jesus christ have you seen the direction european politics have gone in recently ? Marine Le Pen almost became president in France her father was a Holocaust denier for goddsake.

Far right political parties are gaining power in different parts of Europe blaming migrants for all of europes ills, unemployment and the risk of a financial crisis also does not help matters.

This is reminds me of the political situation Europe in the thirties leading up to ww2 and the rise of Hitler and facism because when things get bad one group of people will blame another group of people for all of societies ills.

We have not learned WE ARE MAKING THE SAME DAMN MISTAKES.

You're right, but also, it's different. Modern fascism is subtle. The fringes are clearly dangerous but they're not as dangerous as the right that hides them. They can't parade their racism because the general population isn't the same as the 1920s, as I said, many of the ideas around race of those years today are considered bullshit.

I wish things were better of course than they are right now.
 
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Crimsonskies

Alt account
Banned
Nov 1, 2019
700
Agreed



You're right, but also, it's different. Modern fascism is subtle. The fringes are clearly dangerous but they're not as dangerous as the right that hides them. They can't parade their racism because the general population isn't the same as the 1920s, as I said, many of the ideas around race of those years today are considered bullshit.

I wish things were better of course than they are right now.

The Nazi party went from being a fringe party in the 20's that nobody took seriously until the great depression hit in 1929 and in less than 6 years they were running Germany.
 

Deleted member 50374

alt account
Banned
Dec 4, 2018
2,482
The Nazi party went from being a fringe party in the 20's that nobody took seriously until the great depression hit in 1929 and in less than 6 years they were running Germany.
Yup. It's 12 years after the great depression of 2008 and yet they haven't took power. And Europe is exiting the coronavirus crisis right now with an apparently stronger European Union if anything. The modern right wing (especially in Germany) will ally with the left wing well before there's any chance of AFD and friends getting any real power.

I'm not holding my breath for the far right to disappear; they might get more annoying if anything, and ridiculous. But corona was quite the hit to their current credibility.

I'm worried about Hungary, Poland, and some countries nearby there. But the actual powers at the center of the continent aren't really in danger.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,628
Tel Aviv
Yes - do bring in the cops integrity to this and cast it in an American light. That's going to go over just fine (see the post above yours).

I have no idea about how the suspect makes his decisions - so I can not say one way or the other how race affected this. Neither can you. We can both speculate - that's easy, I just did that on the post you didn't like. I assumed (because that seems likely) that the suspects racism made it worse.
You think ACAB is just an American thing? ACAB is a world-wide antifa & anarchist/leftist slogan. You liking to lick police boots has nothing to do with the country you live in dude.

I know the guy was a Nazi and he killed a minority. I don't care if they thought they were besties, one of them thought of the other as less than human, and thinking that did not play a big role in the murder is just straight up denial.
 

andymoogle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
What do you mean?

Back in the 1920s the hate for hebrews was another thing entirely from today. It isn't gone unfortunately, but the average person has nothing against hebraism.
We are seeing the exact same thing now that we saw during the rise of the Nazis. The difference is that it's Muslims instead of Jews. We haven't learned anything.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
We could really do without the massive generalizations and hyperbole behind 'all cops are evil'. It does not help.
If cops are not on the frontlines of doing the work to address and eliminate corruption within their ranks then it isn't hyperbole. Cops don't get to claim to be heroes if they're only willing to be serious about crimes that aren't committed by felllow officers. As long as it's citizens continually pulling the weight of expecting equivalent responsibility ACAB will remain relevant.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,272
Serious idiot in this thread.

Black Man killed by guy with Nazi tattoos, who tried to join the right wing party, and he's gonna believe the word of the police claiming this a non racial killing.

The insulting part is trying to gaslight everyone into believing his idiot shit
 

Bob The Skull

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
177
Chicago
Serious idiot in this thread.

Black Man killed by guy with Nazi tattoos, who tried to join the right wing party, and he's gonna believe the word of the police claiming this a non racial killing.

The insulting part is trying to gaslight everyone into believing his idiot shit
Thank you for calling me an idiot - much appreciated, I find that this generally improve the discussion a lot.

Yes I'm going to believe the claim from police and media sources that there was a pre-existing disagreement and that the racial aspect was likely secondary.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
After reading the second half of the NY times article I flipped from "come on Denmark" to "fuck you Denmark".
 
Jan 18, 2018
2,560
Thank you for calling me an idiot - much appreciated, I find that this generally improve the discussion a lot.

Yes I'm going to believe the claim from police and media sources that there was a pre-existing disagreement and that the racial aspect was likely secondary.
What's there to discuss? not saying you're an idiot but I can see why others think so.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Rejoice people with anime avatars. It's now people with skull avatars being dipshits. lol
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,807
Thank you for calling me an idiot - much appreciated, I find that this generally improve the discussion a lot.

Yes I'm going to believe the claim from police and media sources that there was a pre-existing disagreement and that the racial aspect was likely secondary.
Y'all disingenuous types crack me up. Show apparent disregard to victims of obvious racism but then appeal to the civics of respectable "discussion" when people catch on you're arguing in bad faith.

Tactic as old as the internet itself.
 
Jan 11, 2019
601
Sorry for not responding earlier. It seems like we agree on a few aspects. Just to be clear, I never argued that racism doesn't come in different flavours and that there are minor differences in the way it surfaces, but I still believe that there is a systemic issue throughout Europe. This case and other similar cases makes it evident that racism is heavily embedded into society.

I am not sure how well Google Translate will serve you, but here's a somewhat similar case...
Deniz Uzun - The racism angle was erased from the case, despite the fact that the murderers were members of a small neo-nazi movement, despite the fact that witnesses heard the murderers kill Deniz while shouting racial slurs at him.
Ali Akbari - 4 Danish kids threw molotov cocktails at their Afghan school mate, this kid was 16 at the time, his body was completely engulfed in flames, his clothes was burned into his skin. This happened on school property. The school denied that the attack was racially charged despite the fact that they knew about how Ali was abused due to him being Afghan.

Even in the New York Times article there are some interesting bits about Denmark.

Indeed I do agree that there is a systemic issue throughout Europe. However, it is a different systemic issue. Not a lesser one. For example, no city in Switzerland has a "Ghetto" or "Hood" or whatever you might call a place where the unfortunate have to dwell. There is no popo brutality (although a lot of racial profiling) and there are few acts of crime agaisnt PoC. On the surface, one might think that racism here is non-existent. This is dangerous and makes the kind of racism that IS present here all the more dangerous.

And the racism that IS dangerous here, and on that we certainly agree, is well and deeply hammered into our brains. And we have actual neonazi-music-festivals happening in the ass-end hinterlands of switzerlandia and entire villages that are considered "brown" (as in nazi-town, nothing to do with the skin color). When it Comes to racism, there is no "better" or "worse". Just "evil."

Anyone who argues that even the calmest Corners of Europe have no racism is completely nuts. In the end I think we are in complete agreement.
 

Rei Toei

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,517
If cops are not on the frontlines of doing the work to address and eliminate corruption within their ranks then it isn't hyperbole. Cops don't get to claim to be heroes if they're only willing to be serious about crimes that aren't committed by felllow officers. As long as it's citizens continually pulling the weight of expecting equivalent responsibility ACAB will remain relevant.

Thanks for responding. I get the sentiment behind ACAB but I just don't believe it applies to all police, everywhere, in every country. I'm not American, but American police and their hero complex, systematic racism, hyperviolence etc scares the shit outta me and I can get completely behind the idea of completely tearing the current US police system to the ground and start anew, build something new and better. I don't believe all other police forces worldwide need exactly the same systematic reform - tho they probably all need some form of reform. Police forces are as diverse as there are countries in the world. To me ACAB seems the same as saying 'ARPAB ('all religious persons are bastards') because there are child-abusing priests and massive crimes against humanity coming from organized religion. It's a blanket statement to me and I don't see how the wording helps in any way except polarize.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,272
Thank you for calling me an idiot - much appreciated, I find that this generally improve the discussion a lot.

Yes I'm going to believe the claim from police and media sources that there was a pre-existing disagreement and that the racial aspect was likely secondary.

you're so fucking corny

Nobody gives a fuck about your "discussion". You're in here proudly flaunting that you believe the police word like anyone gives a shit. We know where you stand, we know you're racist as fuck and have no positive wellbeing regarding this scenario. People stick around on this board mainly to combat all the bullshit posted by trash individuals such as yourself. Its all a forum comment game to you that keeps yall entertained, while real people die with no justice.

Somehow that rock for a brain you have was able to activate and deduce I was talking about you, But you then choose to gaslight about the police like anybody would really fall into your thought process. Thats what truly makes you the idiot, racism aside.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Disappointing to hear, particularly so that there does not seem to be much momentum in the opposite direction.

How much more of a hate crime does it need to be? Seems like a telegraphed pass.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,031
Thank you for calling me an idiot - much appreciated, I find that this generally improve the discussion a lot.

Yes I'm going to believe the claim from police and media sources that there was a pre-existing disagreement and that the racial aspect was likely secondary.
Dude is tatted to hell and back with Nazi and white power symbols but you're gonna believe the police, a worldwide institution to uphold the dominance of whiteness, that this wasn't racially motivated.

You do you.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
I mean does the Nazi has to yell into the camera that this is a racially hate murder in order to get this into a racially hate crime? This is ridiculous Denmark... if he's not tried for racially hate crime, I'm considering Denmark is a no-go for black people.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,109
Gentrified Brooklyn
We know that the people used as sources in media characterise them as friendly. Not friendly 10 years ago.

Yes - do bring in the cops integrity to this and cast it in an American light. That's going to go over just fine (see the post above yours).

I have no idea about how the suspect makes his decisions - so I can not say one way or the other how race affected this. Neither can you. We can both speculate - that's easy, I just did that on the post you didn't like. I assumed (because that seems likely) that the suspects racism made it worse.

No we are not. However, In a country where police is not supposed to communicate unqualified guesswork to the media we have to accept that given an existing non-race related motive the police is not likely to say "based on a tatoos and post history on social media we assume that this is driven by race".

Also - he killed a guy, he didn't "go a bit too far". As for the role of race the police is well aware that it may play a secondary role (presumably in degree of violence etc.) that is clear from the media articles I have read. In light of this they still maintain that the primary factor was a disagreement that people around the victim/suspects knew about.

I am not backing white supremacists. I'm communicating that inference like you illustrate here is not going to be communicated by the Danish police when they have evidence that points to a pre-existing disagreement.

As for the methods and mindset making it clear that the instigating incident was race related I find that to be reductive. That would mean that whatever crime he would commit it would always be race related if the other person was PoC. I find it just as likely that he decided to kill the guy for other reasons and then made it excessively violent with a background in race.


The bigger question is do Danish Police have a vested interest in downplaying the race factor. Also the 'friendly' and 'disagreement' have wide swaths of grey areas.

'Friendly' could be a neighborly nod and maybe a quick convo while they were walking dogs which doesn't mean that they were friends.
'Disagreement' could be that under the above scenario the white guy could have been annoyed that the black dude one time told him to curb his dog and 'How dare a N----- tell me what to do!'

While anecdotal, the fact that the accused was so far up a belief that he had several tattoos, and that belief says it's OK to murder people based on race...it's kind of a hard elephant to ignore.

And if this forum is an example, it seems there's a large swath of European population, including Danish, that downplay anything regarding race because "its not the US". it's a bit hard to look at the evidence and not want to have more details, and mistrust initial reports the way they were initially and vaguely laid out because that nazi angle is a crazy huge one
 
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phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
Good. Now read the rest of the thread to know why I made the statement to begin with. Fact is too many folks in Europe act like it's just something in the states.

I'm not going to debate this with you. A man died, from reporting it seems too obviously race related, and I fucking am disgusted (even moreso because I was/am contemplating a move there).

I dont see the point in your remarks, or defending some notion of "lesser" racism, because all racism is racism and awful. Just know that Europeans are not one cohesive group with the exact same (again not saying anything about severity) institutional problems everywhere.
 

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,320
I'm not going to debate this with you. A man died, from reporting it seems too obviously race related, and I fucking am disgusted (even moreso because I was/am contemplating a move there).

I dont see the point in your remarks, or defending some notion of "lesser" racism, because all racism is racism and awful. Just know that Europeans are not one cohesive group with the exact same (again not saying anything about severity) institutional problems everywhere.
The poster didn't say "every European". His point is valid in that many Canadian and European posters on Era downplay racism in their own backyards. If you don't then that's great as it is indeed a worldwide issue.
 

Faustek

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,876
Thank you for calling me an idiot - much appreciated, I find that this generally improve the discussion a lot.

Yes I'm going to believe the claim from police and media sources that there was a pre-existing disagreement and that the racial aspect was likely secondary.

You are an idiot. You're trying to rap the same bs the far right scum be saying about it. Not here, American ideas being imported, man we living in these countries have been saying it forever that shit whack but your musty ass really have the balls to go there? American import? Fuck you.
Denmark with its sundown towns and people that refuse to accept that their racism is racism because that's the way it is have police that suddenly ain't and we gotta wait? Fuck you.

man gotta love these cornballs that always have to say shits different when niggas living here have been yelling until our throats go sore that shit ain't right but nope. You don't see color, you don't see race, you don't see anything unless you can benefit from it. Fuck you.
 
OP
OP
nillansan

nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
No one denies Europeans are, on average, racist. But our racism is rooted in xenophobia instead of superiority like in USA.

This is some grade A non-sense. White supremacists are flourishing and thriving throughout Europe. White europeans colonised large parts of the global south, where most countries are fucked up beyond repair. It is a matter of supremacy.

The difference between USA and Europe is that Europe don't have cops that kill you on the spot.

The police still target minorities and a lot of cases of police brutality in europe have been put into the spotlight after the killing of George Floyd as a reminder that police brutality definitely exists in Europe.

As a member of a couple minorities of Europe, I'd also gladly ask Americans to refrain from applying their views to Europe as the continent is a lot more diverse than your west vs east vs bible belt stuff there.

As minority living in Europe, I kindly ask white Europeans not to derail the conversation, it comes across as an effort to suppress any focus on white supremacy in Europe.
 

TP-DK

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,040
Denmark
If someone has tattoos of swastikas and white power and is too extreme to join the racist idiot Paludans party, then he obviously doesnt see people of color as equal beings, and then it doesnt matter what the victim did before or what lead to this happen, its a hate crime.
 

Faustek

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,876
If someone has tattoos of swastikas and white power and is too extreme to join the racist idiot Paludans party, then he obviously doesnt see people of color as equal beings, and then it doesnt matter what the victim did before or what lead to this happen, its a hate crime.

Only reasons these troglodytes ain't welcomed anymore is because it might scare away the white, moderate, kind European voter. Make no mistake, this was the base, this was the roots and still is but they can't have them represent them because it would be too obvious then.
 

Lyng

Editor at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,206
The only way racism is different in our #1 most racist (out of the ~15 (mostly western/Nordic) EU countires measured) EU country, Finland, is that police don't generally (ever?) shoot black people when they are just walking outside their home picking up the post/returning home from the store in the suburbs, and as racist as we are on average, black people's trust in the police here is actually fairly high (something like 70-80%)! Otherwise it's the same systematic racism + violence from white supremacists/racists + slurs & other shitty behaviour towards POC in public. It might have some local flavour, but the underlying racism is still the same, and probably about as common (if not more so).

exactly the same in denmark. especially amning middle aged middle class people the racism is insane. Its basically Karen county sadly.
 

Untzillatx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,375
Basque Country
User banned (permanent): dismissing concerns around white supremacism. Prior ban for dismissing and speaking over the concerns of minority members.
This is some grade A non-sense. White supremacists are flourishing and thriving throughout Europe. White europeans colonised large parts of the global south, where most countries are fucked up beyond repair. It is a matter of supremacy.

They are not wrong. A Danish neo-nazi such as the one in this sorry episode is just as likely to be racist against eastern or southern Europeans, because that's the thing with nazis, they believe one sub-group of Europeans is superior to others.

Racism and xenophobia in Europe has always been targeted against the outsiders, and to a Danish a Spaniard, or an Italian or a Serbian is also an outsider.

---

I think that is an important factor many Americans do not consider when discussing racism in Europe. In the US, Euro-Americans have all coalesced into a sort of semi-homogenous blob, the so-called "white people". They maintain some quirks from their European ancestors like some dishes or family traditions, but in the end one white American is very much like the other, particularly newer generations. Hence white supremacism, in the US, is this idea of group superiority against others, "white people" vs. "the rest (PoC)".

In Europe, where racism most definitely exists and it is rampant and no one should ever put that in doubt, native Europeans haven't merged into "one people". A Swede is nothing like a Slovene, who is nothing like a Portuguese, and in all aspects: looks, culture, language, religion. Thus, you don't need to be non-white to be "the other". I mean, as people like to bring up the Nazis, they thought Slavs were "sub-human" and that Mediterraneans were "not as good" when compared to Germanics, and yet this was all "white people" (in American terms).

Southern Europeans are often victims of discimination in northern Europe and eastern Europeans are very often victims of discrimination in western Europe. People from Africa, Asia and the Middle East have the aggravating factor that on top of everything they look more different, have a darker skin, or dress too differently, etc, which greatly increases their chances of being "othered", of suffering discrimination or even worse, racially motivated attacks as I personally believe was the case in this occassion.

I do not think this can be reduced to being "white supremacism", because racially motivated attacks in Europe happen all the time unfortunately, and most of the victims are other Europeans (ask the Polish in the UK). Maybe the individual of this specific event was in fact anti-black and would only target African people. But racism in Europe is not a "white people vs the rest" situation (ie white supremacism) as it is in the US, it is more of a "my ethnicity/related-ethnicities vs others". That's the point I'm trying to make and that I believe other Europeans try to make when they speak about the specific circumstances of European racism.

And if it makes any difference, I'm a mixed race European.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,971
In this thread we'll see how far down the rabbit hole some will go to defend pigs, racism and white supremacy with plausible deniability.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,290
New York
I'm not going to debate this with you. A man died, from reporting it seems too obviously race related, and I fucking am disgusted (even moreso because I was/am contemplating a move there).

We agree here.

I dont see the point in your remarks, or defending some notion of "lesser" racism, because all racism is racism and awful. Just know that Europeans are not one cohesive group with the exact same (again not saying anything about severity) institutional problems everywhere.

Let me clarify for you: I'm not "defending" "lesser racism". I'll leave that to the folks that drone on and on about American racism any time a racist incident is condemned outside the US. Particularly throughout Europe.

And the reason I say Europe and not break it down into individual nation-states is because despite the cultural difference between them this remains a problem that is rife amongst all of them.

I don't need you to explain the obvious: "Not all European nations are the same". That's obvious. But they all suffer from this specific problem. And sorry but time and time again European posters here tend to get HYPER defensive when this gets pointed out.
 

StalinTheCat

Member
Oct 30, 2017
718
so many words just to say "not all Europeans" lulz
IF you are referring to the post above you, from Untzillatx I am not sure you have read it correctly.

My understanding of what they have posted is that there is indeed a deep racism problem in Europe and that it's even bigger than the White supremacist vs POC.
In Europe racism is definitely there towards POCs, but it's also from a country to another so in broad terms "white vs white".

I don't think the post was saying "not all Europeans", quite the opposite: in Europe is even worse than in the US (aside from Police killing people, luckily)
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,290
New York
They are not wrong. A Danish neo-nazi such as the one in this sorry episode is just as likely to be racist against eastern or southern Europeans, because that's the thing with nazis, they believe one sub-group of Europeans is superior to others.

Racism and xenophobia in Europe has always been targeted against the outsiders, and to a Danish a Spaniard, or an Italian or a Serbian is also an outsider.

---

I think that is an important factor many Americans do not consider when discussing racism in Europe. In the US, Euro-Americans have all coalesced into a sort of semi-homogenous blob, the so-called "white people". They maintain some quirks from their European ancestors like some dishes or family traditions, but in the end one white American is very much like the other, particularly newer generations. Hence white supremacism, in the US, is this idea of group superiority against others, "white people" vs. "the rest (PoC)".

In Europe, where racism most definitely exists and it is rampant and no one should ever put that in doubt, native Europeans haven't merged into "one people". A Swede is nothing like a Slovene, who is nothing like a Portuguese, and in all aspects: looks, culture, language, religion. Thus, you don't need to be non-white to be "the other". I mean, as people like to bring up the Nazis, they thought Slavs were "sub-human" and that Mediterraneans were "not as good" when compared to Germanics, and yet this was all "white people" (in American terms).

Southern Europeans are often victims of discimination in northern Europe and eastern Europeans are very often victims of discrimination in western Europe. People from Africa, Asia and the Middle East have the aggravating factor that on top of everything they look more different, have a darker skin, or dress too differently, etc, which greatly increases their chances of being "othered", of suffering discrimination or even worse, racially motivated attacks as I personally believe was the case in this occassion.

I do not think this can be reduced to being "white supremacism", because racially motivated attacks in Europe happen all the time unfortunately, and most of the victims are other Europeans (ask the Polish in the UK). Maybe the individual of this specific event was in fact anti-black and would only target African people. But racism in Europe is not a "white people vs the rest" situation (ie white supremacism) as it is in the US, it is more of a "my ethnicity/related-ethnicities vs others". That's the point I'm trying to make and that I believe other Europeans try to make when they speak about the specific circumstances of European racism.

And if it makes any difference, I'm a mixed race European.

We really nuancing Nazis now?
 

Untzillatx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,375
Basque Country
IF you are referring to the post above you, from Untzillatx I am not sure you have read it correctly.

My understanding of what they have posted is that there is indeed a deep racism problem in Europe and that it's even bigger than the White supremacist vs POC.
In Europe racism is definitely there towards POCs, but it's also from a country to another so in broad terms "white vs white".

I don't think the post was saying "not all Europeans", quite the opposite: in Europe is even worse than in the US (aside from Police killing people, luckily)

Yes, this is what I meant.

Racism and xenophobia in Europe go deeper than just "I'm white and you are not".

We really nuancing Nazis now?

Please take some time to read my post again. Nobody is nuancing Nazis.