Black Lives Matter Everywhere - Police Killings In Germany

[Paranormal Panini]

While I mostly agree the German police still has a racism problem. According to this article since 1993 a total of 138 poc died in police custody. https://www.volksverpetzer.de/aktuelles/schwarz-sein/
Yes it is comparatively low but these are still 138 deaths.

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Definitely!
But maybe there's a way for a more nuanced discussion than saying that "all cops are bastards".

For me it becomes systematic and institutionalized oppression when racist incidents happen and they are swept under the rug and not properly prosecuted which seems to be exactly what is happening here.

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I am not sure that it is purely racially motivated that cases are not being properly investigated. Take police violence against soccer fans, for example. Organised soccer fans in Germany are usually not from minorities. Yet there are often reports of unnecessary police violence. Especially from a couple of notorious police units. These cases (which are, of course, not about murder) are also not properly investigated. I think the issue is more than police officers cover each other too much. Or higher ups sweep it under the rug to avoid it becoming a political issue. Here I'm only talking about the investigations, not the murders/killings/detahs themselves. I can easily believe these to have a racist motif.

Germany's racism problem is rather notorious, de-nazification couldn't scrub every corner and going from 100% to the current low support for Nazis was already a huge success but we must remain vigilant as they will always return, they will always seek positions of power and they will always abuse those positions. The police and military must be regularly screened and investigated to find the Nazis. And of course there's a lot of more subtle racism than outright Nazis. The average German still carries a lot of prejudices and hate, not "gas all Jews" level but enough to make us act worse towards minorities and that accumulates to the same structural shitshow that we see surface in the US. Holding minorities down through constant worse reactions, be it for police behavior, job interviews, rental offers, whatever. Anything that requires personal judgement is quickly tainted by prejudices even if it's not a conscious act.

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You can even add another dimension to Germany's racism problem: Racism among minorities.
Antisemitism is a big problem among recently arrived migrants from the Middle East.
German fascists then pretend to care about Jews and use it as ammunition against immigration.
How do you educate people from a completely different culture that parts of their deep-rooted world views are wrong?
Or take the smouldering conflict between Kurdish and Turkish people living in Germany.
All those conflicts among minorities in turn is fuel for German racists who think they should all fuck off to their home countries.

 

[DerAuto]

You can even add another dimension to Germany's racism problem: Racism among minorities.
Antisemitism is a big problem among recently arrived migrants from the Middle East.
German fascists then pretend to care about Jews and use it as ammunition against immigration.
How do you educate people from a completely different culture that parts of their deep-rooted world views are wrong?
Or take the smouldering conflict between Kurdish and Turkish people living in Germany.
All those conflicts among minorities in turn is fuel for German racists who think they should all fuck off to their home countries.

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Ok look, I know what you are aiming at but that is a whole other discussion. And as a minority in Germany I'm really tired of discussions derailing by saying something like "but they are racists them self!", that's not the point here.
You are claiming here that migrants from the Middle East are less educated and in nature more racist which is simply not true. I don't know whether it is intentional or lost in translation, but if you truly believe that you are part of the problem.

And yes saying ACAB in Germany is a bit of hyperbole but to be honest, as part of a minority group I have been frisk by the police more than all my white friends. I frequently encounter microaggressions or just obvious racist behavior in my daily live. There is without any doubt a racism problem in Germany.

Edit:
Just as an example: An acquaintance (herself a policewoman) told me that things like "Kanaken klatschen" ("Beating up Arabs" basically) were said in the barracks. Yes, maybe these are only isolated cases, but that doesn't make them less dangerous.

 

[krazen]

Ok look, I know what you are aiming at but that is a whole other discussion. And as a minority in Germany I'm really tired of discussions derailing by saying something like "but they are racists them self!", that's not the point here.
You are claiming here that migrants from the Middle East are less educated and in nature more racist which is simply not true. I don't know whether it is intentional or lost in translation, but if you truly believe that you are part of the problem.

And yes saying ACAB in Germany is a bit of hyperbole but to be honest, as part of a minority group I have been frisk by the police more than all my white friends. I frequently encounter microaggressions or just obvious racist behavior in my daily live. There is without any doubt a racism problem in Germany.

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Thanks for this, and sorry.

 

[jfkgoblue]

It's easier for nearly homogenous countries (like most of Europe) to cover up how shitty they are to minorities simply because they make up a much smaller percentage of the population.

 

[DerAuto]

Thanks for this, and sorry.

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Thanks, much appreciated.

 

[nampad]

Definitely!
But maybe there's a way for a more nuanced discussion than saying that "all cops are bastards".



I am not sure that it is purely racially motivated that cases are not being properly investigated. Take police violence against soccer fans, for example. Organised soccer fans in Germany are usually not from minorities. Yet there are often reports of unnecessary police violence. Especially from a couple of notorious police units. These cases (which are, of course, not about murder) are also not properly investigated. I think the issue is more than police officers cover each other too much. Or higher ups sweep it under the rug to avoid it becoming a political issue. Here I'm only talking about the investigations, not the murders/killings/detahs themselves. I can easily believe these to have a racist motif.



You can even add another dimension to Germany's racism problem: Racism among minorities.
Antisemitism is a big problem among recently arrived migrants from the Middle East.
German fascists then pretend to care about Jews and use it as ammunition against immigration.
How do you educate people from a completely different culture that parts of their deep-rooted world views are wrong?
Or take the smouldering conflict between Kurdish and Turkish people living in Germany.
All those conflicts among minorities in turn is fuel for German racists who think they should all fuck off to their home countries.

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I have been racially harassed more by other immigrants than by "Biodeutschen" in the past few years, which is pretty sad.

 

[LordRuyn]

Honestly, I had to give a history lesson to many of my students here in Italy who simply dismissed this as a purely American problem.

 

[Katharsios]

Official 2019 statistics:

Homepage - PCS 2019 - Flyer

PCS 2019 Flyer

www.bka.de

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Those statistics are useless in regard of the discussion in context of PoC. Alot of PoC are of german nationality. I would be surprised if you'll find an official statistic regardind PoC because our statistics tend to be PC.

Not saying there is no problem with our police.
Just pointing out to not misuse statistics.

 

[arsene_P5]

The cases described in the op are reprehensible and I don't doubt that there are police officers that are racist, but we don't live in a police state and there's no systematic police brutality towards minorities.

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I agree with this, even though we have racism issues aswell. However our law doesn't discriminate anyone and the typical police officers don't do this either.

German cops are still cops with all that entails but I never saw them as trigger happy.

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Because they aren't.

We mustn't be complacent just because the US looks so much worse now. That doesn't mean we're fine, it just means we're not quite at the bottom yet.

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Absolutely. But I think we shouldn't do the opposite either and think german cops are in the same state as american cops (system) currently.

Just for perspective: Each year, between 150 and 170 people die while in arrest or custody in Germany.
The death of (not mentioned in OP/Tweet) Jaber al-Bakr in 2016 prompted an investigation of the Parliament about the number of deaths while in custody:

Stats of deaths while in custody and/or prison: 1998-2016
Todesfälle in Haft, Polizeigewahrsam und Sicherungsverwahrung

The deaths mentioned in the OP occurred over a timespan of 21 years:
Aamir Ageeb - 1999
Achidi John - 2001
Oury Jalloh - 2005
Laya-Alama Conde - 2005
Hussam Fadl - 2016
Rooble Warsame - 2019
William Tonou-Mboda - 2019

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Most of those are suicides while in prison in this statistics and above 50% seem to be germans. Don't get me wrong, these deaths still have their root in issues our country should fix. We need more therapist in our country for example and obviously need to battle racism. But most of these cases don't seem to be police violence, which and that goes without saying we should battle aswell so nobody dies while in custody.

Not to downplay the deaths but she makes it out as this is happening every other week, when in fact it isn't (see other posters post).

Germany isn't the US, our cops are not as fucked up
Heck, the other day there was just a video showing how someone spat on a police men and punched him and eventually even ran away without them even doing anything:

KRASSE SCHLÄGEREI IN BERLIN !! Polizist wird von ein Jugendlichen angespuckt

#Berlin #ACAB

m.youtube.com

Yeah, there are some bad sheep. I was racially profiled all the time with the lamest excuses (grew up near the Dutch border, lots of drug traffic). But calling out all German cops like this is just crazy.

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I agree and most cops are friendly. As you showed with your example sometimes to friendly. They should sue a person spitting on them.

 

[Wordballoons]

This is shocking and horrible. More people worldwide need to be aware of the gross abuses that happen to africans and arabs in Europe it's disgusting. I thought awareness was spreading during the syrian crisis but it seems to have been glanced over because of all the crises that have followed.

I've been saying this for the past few days. This is not a social issue exclusive to the United States. Police killings and general racism towards black communities in Europe, especially in the UK is still a huge issue. Reading some of the comments on Era from Europeans who seem to think they have a right to pretend racism isn't 'as bad' in their countries or they're better than the US is infuriating.

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1. We aren't delusional nor do we ignore our problems

Case in point (you probably can't read or listen to this because americans never learn other languages but oh well) :

Gardiens de la paix

Policier et Noir, Alex découvre l'existence d'un groupe privé d’échanges audio racistes et fascistes dont font partie une dizaine de ses co-équipiers.

www.arteradio.com

2. As a French person it is evident that racism is super bad here. To think that things are somehow even worse in the US isn't really negating that (even if I think it is quite the same and agree many in France point at the US to brush away our problems in bad faith)

I also thought apartheid is worse than what happens in the US, but that does not mean I am excusing what happens in the US. Being horrified at the racism in the US and thinking thank god it is not as bad here is much the same thing.

Some europeans are delusional but posts like yours always come off more like Americans trying to point at Europe and say that it is also bad here so stop looking at your problems/giving you a hard time, etc.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

This is shocking and horrible. More people worldwide need to be aware of the gross abuses that happen to africans and arabs in Europe it's disgusting. I thought awareness was spreading during the syrian crisis but it seems to have been glanced over because of all the crises that have followed.


1. We aren't delusional nor do we ignore our problems

Case in point (you probably can't read or listen to this because americans never learn other languages but oh well) :

Gardiens de la paix

Policier et Noir, Alex découvre l'existence d'un groupe privé d’échanges audio racistes et fascistes dont font partie une dizaine de ses co-équipiers.

www.arteradio.com

2. As a French person it is evident that racism is super bad here. To think that things are somehow even worse in the US isn't really negating that (even if I think it is quite the same and agree many in France point at the US to brush away our problems in bad faith)

I also thought apartheid is worse than what happens in the US, but that does not mean I am excusing what happens in the US. Being horrified at the racism in the US and thinking thank god it is not as bad here is much the same thing.

Some europeans are delusional but posts like yours always come off more like Americans trying to point at Europe and say that it is also bad here so stop looking at your problems/giving you a hard time, etc.

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Here we fucking go, again, another poster insulting me and assuming I'm American because I criticise the racism that I've experience for years as a black man living in Europe. That you're so offended at the idea that white Europe has a major, major problem with racism and prejudice against black people speaks volumes, to the point of insulting my intelligence no less. Fuck you.

 

[Wordballoons]

Here we fucking go, again, another poster insulting me and assuming I'm American because I criticise the racism that I've experience for years as a black man living in Europe. Fuck you.

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I am sorry, I just assume most people on here are american. In france, we are also having huge protests over the killings we have had here and what I linked to was a huge exposure of very racist police networks in france. I of course agree with you in general just spend too much time on the american politics thread and am getting tired of them

 

[SigSig]

the reason that you don't see more people shot by police in Germany isn't that the cops are so nice, but that they can't fall back to "he was reaching for his gun". they are every bit as racist.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

I am sorry, I just assume most people on here are american. In france, we are also having huge protests over the killings we have had here and what I linked to was a huge exposure of very racist police networks in france. I of course agree with you in general just spend too much time on the american politics thread and am getting tired of them

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That's nice and everything but that doesn't make anything I said incorrect. You saw my comment which was entirely factual and took offence to it. Why? France is notorious for racism, especially against black people and Muslims. The fact you have European posters on Era regularly downplaying how bad the situation is in their region or hitting out at 'Americans' in response to the criticism is the exact sort of behaviour my post was taking issue with.

Who is the least racist doesn't matter. It's still racism and the end result is the same.

 

[Wordballoons]

That's nice and everything but that doesn't make anything I said incorrect. You saw my comment which was entirely factual and took offence to it. Why? France is notorious for racism, especially against black people and Muslims. The fact you have European posters on Era regularly downplaying how bad the situation is in their region or hitting out at 'Americans' in response to the criticism is the exact sort of behaviour my post was taking issue with.

Who is the least racist doesn't matter. It's still racism and the end result is the same.

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you cannot tell who you are talking to over the internet so I apologize. In real life had I known you were a black european and not an american I would have made different assumptions about the intentions of your post. I always read these things online (as online is dominated by americans) as americans about to start arguing that if europe were half as diverse it would be 10x bad etc

I do think it is terrible in France and do not take offense at all (i don't think most realize we still have « memorials » for harki, refuse to speak about the algerian war, know what happened with zidane and what he was called in world cup) and think that we have a serious issue around even having discussion that has not changed even after 2005 riots. France is easily the worst in western europe re: racism. Or at least that is my interpretation as a french person. Idk about other places

 

[arsene_P5]

the reason that you don't see more people shot by police in Germany isn't that the cops are so nice, but that they can't fall back to "he was reaching for his gun". they are every bit as racist.

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I don't think the difference is in racism as you said. But I think the violence and education of those police officers is different. It starts with the selection process, which apparently is much more strict and thoughtful than in america.

This doesn't mean you don't have criminal police in germany, but the chance is slimmer to encounter them and as you said they can't pull the excuse of guns out of their pockets as often as americans probably can. Furthermore they can't use the excuse of a threat all the time, because we know police offers are armed while most people living in germany aren't.

 

[xyla]

Racial profiling is absolutely a thing in Germany.
Police brutality is also quite bad at times, especially at bigger events that attract lots of protesters that might include non-peaceful protesters like the G8 that happened in Hamburg.
In general, protesting is not a problem though and people don't have to fear for their lives when attending a protest.

While having huge areas to grow, Police in Germany is not close to being comparable to the situation in the US and potentially a lot more salvageable. I still fear that there a quite a lot of Neo Nazis in the police though. There should be programs to fish them out better.

Just a few side notes:

to become Police in Germany, you have to
- learn the job for 2 to 3 years depending on what you want to do there
- have an Abitur (12 years of school) and learn for 3 years after to become a higher up at the police

Non of this should detract from the fact that racism exists in Germany and that there are racist cops here too. Police brutality happens in Germany too. Police needs to be held accountable and needs to be better.

 

[GTAce]

Hamburg:

 

[GTAce]

Berlin:

 

[Haribo]

Racism is everywhere, pretending otherwise is just stupid.

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The only thing that I do think is worse in America is police brutality. Or at least a lot more common. Probably a consequence of America glorifying guns and war so much.

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the dick waving can stop. your whole continent is racist as shit and the only reason they aren't hemming minorities up at the same rate is police budget and infrastructure.

 

[Deleted member 49535]

the dick waving can stop. your whole continent is racist as shit and the only reason they aren't hemming minorities up at the same rate is police budget and infrastructure.

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First of all I said racism is everywhere, so stop pretending I said otherwise.

Second, police in Europe is nowhere near as aggressive as it is in America. You have no idea what you're talking about if you think otherwise. It has nothing to do with budget.

 

[Haribo]

First of all I said racism is everywhere, so stop pretending I said otherwise.

Second, police in Europe is nowhere near as aggressive as it is in America. You have no idea what you're talking about if you think otherwise. It has nothing to do with budget.

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my bad. shout out to Europe man you guys really are ahead of the curve on all of this. i can also tell you have a good grasp on how racism propagates itself, that's what i was trying to highlight

 

[Deleted member 49535]

my bad. shout out to Europe man you guys really are ahead of the curve on all of this. i can also tell you have a good grasp on how racism propagates itself, that's what i was trying to highlight

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What you're doing is trying to argue with someone who said racism is everywhere thinking you're fighting the good fight, when in reality you're just butthurt because someone hurt your American pride, because a man got publicly killed in the middle of the street with people surrounding them and telling the cop to stop and I said that's something that would never happen in Europe because police here is different (a lot of them don't even carry guns, for fuck sake).

Don't bother quoting me, I'm ignoring you from now on.

 

[Haribo]

What you're doing is trying to argue with someone who said racism is everywhere thinking you're fighting the good fight, when in reality you're just butthurt because someone hurt your American pride, because a man got publicly killed in the middle of the street with people surrounding them and telling the cop to stop and I said that's something that would never happen in Europe because police here is different (a lot of them don't even carry guns, for fuck sake).

Don't bother quoting me, I'm ignoring you from now on.

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posting from the shadow realm:

so we've learned that Karenoth -
1) didnt read the op
2) thinks I have American pride of any sort
3) used platitudes as an excuse to bury their head in the sand about European police brutality

Probably a consequence of Europe having something or other totally unrelated to what I'm saying

 

[Deleted member 36708]

Keep saying it again.... racism is a WORLD issue as it always has been. Some places hide it better than others. As a black man there are few places you can go and feel safe as your life can't threatened at any particular moment because of your skin color.

 

[Deleted member 5086]

posting from the shadow realm:

so we've learned that Karenoth -
1) didnt read the op
2) thinks I have American pride of any sort
3) used platitudes as an excuse to bury their head in the sand about European police brutality

Probably a consequence of Europe having something or other totally unrelated to what I'm saying

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The enlightened European thing is really tiring to say the least

 

[Sanka]

We got a bunch of nazis in the police, especially the Bundeswehr our army is full of them.

 

[fuenf]

(...)

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Why aren't you trying to provide some context? (like https://rp-online.de/panorama/deuts...flaschen-auf-polizisten-geworfen_aid-51523453 , https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutsch...nstrationen-rassismus-ausschreitungen-polizei or https://twitter.com/PolizeiHamburg). Basically large protests went down peacefully, police declared solidarity with the protester. After the protests a small group of protesters threw rocks and bottles at the police / passer-by. There's no evidence that the police targeted minorities or cracked down on protesters. Of course those videos look bad, but that's what they are designed to do.

I feel like this whole thread is incredibly disingenuous, especially without context. The situation isn't even remotely comparable to the USA. It's great that we are having these protests / discussion in Germany, that people show and express their solidarity with blacklivesmatter, but please stop misrepresenting what's happening here, it takes away from the actual message of these protests and the situation in other countries. Don't get me wrong, of course Germany still has a lot of work to do and there's definitely room for having this conversation but it needs context (for example see OnkelC's post).

 

[Haribo]

The enlightened European thing is really tiring to say the least

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people forget planes exist like, we can take a trip and notice what's going down lol. but its so obvious to anyone looking that things are globally present when you have people protesting just as strongly in europe as anywhere else. they're seeing it in their neighborhoods and personal experiences like the op.

 

[Grug]

Add Australia to the list.

Aboriginal deaths in custody: 434 have died since 1991, new data shows

The Guardian has updated its groundbreaking searchable database as a definitive record of deaths of Indigenous Australians in prison or police custody

www.theguardian.com

 

[GTAce]

Basically large protests went down peacefully, police declared solidarity with the protester. After the protests a small group of protesters threw rocks and bottles at the police / passer-by.

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Sure, just like at the G20 summit.

There's no evidence that the police targeted minorities or cracked down on protesters.

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There is in enough tweets and witness reports.

 

[Pluto]

The enlightened European thing is really tiring to say the least

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Yes it is. But Karonoth acknowledged racism is a problem everywhere but it is also a fact that police brutality is a bigger issue in america. American police shoots and kills 1000 people per year, that simply doesn't happen in europe. In germany 11 people were shot and killed by the police in 2018 with 54 bullets fired at people total. That's not "enlightened european" those are statistics.

Europe definitely has a huge problem with racism and it has a problem with police brutality, that can't be denied and change needs to happen but saying it's worse in america isn't wrong although that must not be used as an excuse for europeans to lean back thinking "We did it, racism is almost over".

 

[Bufbaf]

Why aren't you trying to provide some context? (like https://rp-online.de/panorama/deuts...flaschen-auf-polizisten-geworfen_aid-51523453 , https://www.zeit.de/politik/deutsch...nstrationen-rassismus-ausschreitungen-polizei or https://twitter.com/PolizeiHamburg). Basically large protests went down peacefully, police declared solidarity with the protester. After the protests a small group of protesters threw rocks and bottles at the police / passer-by. There's no evidence that the police targeted minorities or cracked down on protesters. Of course those videos look bad, but that's what they are designed to do.

I feel like this whole thread is incredibly disingenuous, especially without context. The situation isn't even remotely comparable to the USA. It's great that we are having these protests / discussion in Germany, that people show and express their solidarity with blacklivesmatter, but please stop misrepresenting what's happening here, it takes away from the actual message of these protests and the situation in other countries. Don't get me wrong, of course Germany still has a lot of work to do and there's definitely room for having this conversation but it needs context (for example see OnkelC's post).

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So what do those quotes and descriptions have to do with the videos shown above? I'm seeing no bottles thrown, no attacks on police and not a single rock hitting passers-by.

Of course there's gonna be extremist, "professional" rioters when demonstrating in Hamburg or Berlin, but those videos don't show any of them. Of course there's gonna be idiots throwing bottles, but the videos don't show any of them. You know what the Police can do to prevent videos that "look bad, but that's what they're designed to do"? Not using brutality and weapons against protesters, like they clearly fucking do on most, if not all these video links.

 

[Haribo]

Yes it is. But Karonoth acknowledged racism is a problem everywhere but it is also a fact that police brutality is a bigger issue in america. American police shoots and kills 1000 people per year, that simply doesn't happen in europe. In germany 11 people were shot and killed by the police in 2018 with 54 bullets fired at people total. That's not "enlightened european" those are statistics.

Europe definitely has a huge problem with racism and it has a problem with police brutality, that can't be denied and change needs to happen but saying it's worse in america isn't wrong although that must not be used as an excuse for europeans to lean back thinking "We did it, racism is almost over".

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Why does Europe have a huge problem with racism? The answer to that question is what we're trying to highlight here, not the numbers, and Karonoth was using the opportunity to downplay that. Yes America has a gun culture, that is not the reason cops feel fine brutalizing minorities, because if it was, Europe would not have a huge problem!

 

[Deleted member 5086]

Yes it is. But Karonoth acknowledged racism is a problem everywhere but it is also a fact that police brutality is a bigger issue in america. American police shoots and kills 1000 people per year, that simply doesn't happen in europe. In germany 11 people were shot and killed by the police in 2018 with 54 bullets fired at people total. That's not "enlightened european" those are statistics.

Europe definitely has a huge problem with racism and it has a problem with police brutality, that can't be denied and change needs to happen but saying it's worse in america isn't wrong although that must not be used as an excuse for europeans to lean back thinking "We did it, racism is almost over".

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To start with, I'll mention I'm a Black African refugee living in the UK, who grew up here as a visible Muslim. So I'm unfortunately all too aware of how bad racism is in this country. The first time I was called the N word, I was only 9 years old. In the same incident, I was pelted with rocks by a group of white teenage boys. My family was routinely subjected to racist and Islamophobic harassment, and the police did nothing at all to help us despite us identifying the individuals. Look at the video clip of the interview with George the Poet that I posted on page 1. In the context of this thread, saying "at least it isn't as bad here" is frankly not the point and does nothing to bring awareness to the racist institutions in European countries.

 

[krazen]

Yes it is. But Karonoth acknowledged racism is a problem everywhere but it is also a fact that police brutality is a bigger issue in america. American police shoots and kills 1000 people per year, that simply doesn't happen in europe. In germany 11 people were shot and killed by the police in 2018 with 54 bullets fired at people total. That's not "enlightened european" those are statistics.

Europe definitely has a huge problem with racism and it has a problem with police brutality, that can't be denied and change needs to happen but saying it's worse in america isn't wrong although that must not be used as an excuse for europeans to lean back thinking "We did it, racism is almost over".

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Who say's its worse then America? Did someone say that in the post? I could have missed it, but it feels like often in these posts it feels like it goes like.

OP - "(Insert European country has a racism problem)"

Strawman counter-"BUT NOT AS BAD AS AMERICA! WHY ARE YOU ACCUSING US? WE JUST HAVE SOME BAD APPLES, WE AINT AMERICA THO!"

The sad thing is the denial shows to me that as fucked up and murderous American racism is, at least they are at the dialog stage. Its fascinating to see many European's waive off their own racism showing they don't consider it a problem because America is the bar. If that's the case, we are all doomed. And with some European countries flirting with nationalism, I have no doubt eventually some will join the American numbers soon.

The deflection shows that many European countries are BEHIND America in dealing with their systematic racism, even though its not remotely as murderous

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

Sorry, but this is simply factually wrong, to quote the Bundeskriminalamt:
"Als Tatverdächtige in Bezug auf Rauschgifthandelsdelikte wurden im Jahr 2018 in rund zwei Drittel der Fälle deutsche Staatsangehörige erfasst. Insbesondere im Bereich des Handels mit Synthetischen Drogen wurde ein großer Anteil von über 80 % deutscher Staatsangehöriger registriert. Dagegen überwogen bei den Handelsdelikten mit Kokain nichtdeutsche Tatverdächtige."

translated:
"Two-thirds of the suspects for drug selling in 2018, were of German nationality. Especially in the area of selling synthetic drugs more than 80% of suspects had a German citizenship. For the sale of cocaine the majority of suspects was not German. (It was 58 to 42% there)
Source: https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downl...undeslagebildZ.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2 (page 15)

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What people should be aware of, in Germany literally everything depends on having a proper adress.

Social security, jobs, voting , ID(mandatory in most states) without a proper adress you are screwed.

And most live for rent and plenty of landlords are racist. And if you jumped over that hurdle, you still need an income for the appartment. For that you need a job. And for a job you need an adress. Rinse repeat.

The legal way is soul crushing for many and drives people into black market and sometimes drugs.

 

[cyba89]

So what do those quotes and descriptions have to do with the videos shown above? I'm seeing no bottles thrown, no attacks on police and not a single rock hitting passers-by.

Of course there's gonna be extremist, "professional" rioters when demonstrating in Hamburg or Berlin, but those videos don't show any of them.

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At least one of those does.

 

[Pluto]

Who say's its worse then America? Did someone say that in the post? I could have missed it, but it feels like often in these posts it feels like it goes like.

OP - "(Insert European country has a racism problem)"

Strawman counter-"BUT NOT AS BAD AS AMERICA! WHY ARE YOU ACCUSING US? WE JUST HAVE SOME BAD APPLES, WE AINT AMERICA THO!"

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True, I didn't do that though. I said it must not be used as an excuse to ignore our own problems.

The sad thing is the denial shows to me that as fucked up and murderous American racism is, at least they are at the dialog stage. Its fascinating to see many European's waive off their own racism showing they don't consider it a problem because America is the bar. If that's the case, we are all doomed. And with some European countries flirting with nationalism, I have no doubt eventually some will join the American numbers soon.

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America has been at the dialog stage for how long now? It doesn't seem to help. Protests seem to be much more effective and even then only when they happen at a large scale. And yes, I'm scared various rightwing and nationalistic movements will make things worse here.

The deflection shows that many European countries are BEHIND America in dealing with their systematic racism, even though its not remotely as murderous

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America is better at acknowledging the systematic racism but not very good at dealing with it. Maybe that will change in the near future but at the moment I don't see it on either side of the ocean.

 

[behOemoth]

In Germany we had an high entry point for getting into the police. I know a guy, who needed two tries to get into the police academy. But he told me, that because of the refugee crises, they lowered the barrier later and many alt-right organization told there members to join the police. He is afraid of this new recruits, since they may cause trouble and put him into danager.

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The police in combination with with the domestic intelligence service and special commandos always had problems with the far right, but the unions and politicians are successfully downplaying it. The brutality is not as bad as in the US, France or the UK, but Germany has way too many "individual cases" and bad apples. As a consequence, the government slowly starts to do at least something as the number of cases are increasing.

 

[krazen]

True, I didn't do that though. I said it must not be used as an excuse to ignore our own problems.

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You kind of did though. You covered it up with that statement. But the OP talks strictly about Germany. I don't think anyone is under the belief that American police are not the decades in a row minority murdering machine, so its a weird 'but' to throw in there, and like I mentioned in my OP often a tactic in these posts. You did move on from it.

I think the dialog is important because while...well we've been utterly failing it, at least the minority population overall doesn't feel gaslit. Like last time one of these came in someone said that in France there is no such thing as race because they are all Frenchmen(lol); imagine suffering under systemic racism and be told across the board it's your own personal failings. At least in America its just 'well, its not that bad', not 'it doesn't exist at all', lol

 

[Haribo]

crossposting this great book from the police reform thread. anyone not interested in whataboutism may find it interesting. I read it awhile back.

edit: lol, didn't notice Quzar already posted it for someone on page one. Oh well, if someone missed it. :p

Here's a police abolition book, made free to read online.

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[Bufbaf]

At least one of those does.

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So reading that text and watching, again, that particular video, you're telling me IF this text would be true (and I have no reason to believe this, by the way), the brutality and behaviour of the police that vid is showing is justified? For one person being slightly annoying?

 

[cyba89]

So reading that text and watching, again, that particular video, you're telling me IF this text would be true (and I have no reason to believe this, by the way), the brutality and behaviour of the police that vid is showing is justified? For one person being slightly annoying?

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I'm not here to defend police action from a shaky handy video that doesn't tell the whole story, but physically attacking police forces for over ten minutes and keep forcefully resisting when they hold you on the ground is not "slightly annoying someone".

 

[Bufbaf]

I'm not here to defend police action from a shaky handy video that doesn't tell the whole story, but physically attacking police forces for over ten minutes and keep forcefully resisting when they hold you on the ground is not "slightly annoying someone".

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According to that (still unconfirmed) quote from an anonymous person saying he witnessed this specific case, but also various other ones, incidentally all caused by "agressive protesters", he shoved them and called them names. That's not "attacking police forces" in a way that would justify kicking someone to the ground and keep punching him with weaponry by three members of the armed forces. And yes, it kinda does sound a lot like defending police forces from a shaky handy video that doesn't tell the whole story.