Black, Asian, and other oppressed groups of ERA... let's talk to each other (READ OP)

[RastaMentality]

I'll be straight up, I have problems with statements framed like this. The problem with your comment and the other one that resulted in a ban earlier is that it explicitly assumes that somehow Asian-Americans:

1. Don't have communities that they are actively a part of or involved with
2. Somehow aren't putting the work in to reach out and work with the black community specifically. Especially when you have a post with linked articles on page one explicitly stating the ways both communities are working together to address the recent upswing in Anti-Asian violence. Acting like these efforts aren't being made is incredibly disingenuous and works to erase these efforts.

And if you want me to answer to points as an individual:

1. Yes. I live in the Bay Area and am a part of the local Japanese-American community.
2. Yes. I am involved in the community, though not as involved as other individuals I could name. The community does work with the local black community leaders to address issues of racial inequality and were vocal in their support of BLM. As one example, although San Jose Japantown couldn't hold its Obon festival in 2020 due to COVID19, they tried a livestream instead. They devoted an hour of that stream to having a guest speaker who is from the local black community talk about BLM and why it is an important issue for both communities.
3. I come to ResetERA to browse and interact with people who share similar hobbies and interests. To see and re-litigate the same real life issues that weigh on me in my day-to-day is depressing, frustrating, and exhausting. It's quite the shit sandwich. I could strictly stay to the gaming side, but that has more than its own fair share of problems. I look at the the EtcEra side because it highlights news I'm interested in following. Sometimes I chime in, other times I don't think the topic benefits from me throwing in my own limited worldview. Because I live in an area where violence against Asian-Americans is happening and I have older Asian-American parents I've been thinking about this particular one quite a bit.

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It's just frustrating seeing people completely misread what happened with BLM and expect it to repeat itself here 1:1 or they're going to be upset and say that one group is getting more attention than the others. BLM was a fringe organization among the black community in 2013 post-Ferguson. Black celebrities denounced it. The media denounced it. People argued endlessly about what it actually meant. It took until 2020 and George Floyd's death caught on camera for any of the activist work to translate into a mainstream movement. The same goes for the civil rights movement's start in the 40-50s, the LGBT movement, and the Latinx immigration activist movements.

Movements, as shitty as it is, take a lot of time and community building around pushing for change. Just getting media attention isn't how BLM caught on. We all saw unjust, horrible shootings come and go from Trayvon to Floyd that had people enraged, upset, and confused but ultimately did not catch sea waves. I take issue with people like Daniel Dae Kim & co just putting up bounties for the perpetrators to get arrested and thrown in prison while saying that the media isn't paying attention. What will both of those things happening achieve for the Asian community going forward?

While the perpetrators getting thrown in jail might give the families solace and justice, actual sea change is going to require a movement and pointing fingers at people and sniping on social media for not paying attention, frankly, isn't going to do much of anything.

 

[Deepwater]

Ah, I think you misunderstand a little. The last thread wasn't a reaction thread, but those were the immediate examples I came up with to explain the premise. That was it, genuinely.

So I'm not looking to hash any of those specific instances out - I'm trying to see if we can't discuss the things mentioned and basically create an environment where we are able to talk to each other and address what's going on in our communities. Because otherwise, again, it'll be easy to pit us against each other.

Black and Asian activists are currently working together to address this current situation (as shown by an excellent post on page one), so I'd like us to do the same thing. Most people understood this so far, so I don't understand the need to frame it as a reaction to one post.

I ran this thread by the BCT before posting, and someone there thought it was a good idea. Posted in the Asian ERA thread and got the same response. Asian and black members were glad this was made into a thread, and we saw positive discussion on page one. I myself am black. I'm hoping you aren't seeing negative intentions that quite simply don't exist.



Also places on the East Coast! The areas near major cities are generally going to be more diverse.

Asian-owned businesses in my hometown (not in a major city) also got smashed in. I mention this specifically because... well, it's a diverse area. (Had to make a quick edit because I don't want people to assume I was saying other black people did it. We literally don't know who, but it's a place I lived where anti-Asian violence exists... And quite frankly, I didn't expect it there.)

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My intention with all of the posts I've made in this thread is to establish a common understanding so that people can engage with the minimum amount of context. Its not about your intent, its about interrogating *why* we're having this thread framed in the way that it is, having it explicitly laid out so we're not talking past each other and can address issues directly versus *vaguely gesturing*

More concisely, we cannot talk about harm without talking about who are what is perpetuating it. If we cant hold that in this space, then why are we having it at all? I'm not asking for folks to "point fingers" (rhetoric thats been used more than once ITT), I'm asking for them to clearly talk about grievances, and why they think the grievances are happening. If we can't do that, we're going to talk past each other.

 

[Desi]

Movements, as shitty as it is, take a lot of time and community building around pushing for change. Just getting media attention isn't how BLM caught on. We all saw unjust, horrible shootings come and go from Trayvon to Floyd that had people enraged, upset, and confused but ultimately did not catch sea waves. I take issue with people like Daniel Dae Kim & co just putting up bounties for the perpetrators to get arrested and thrown in prison while saying that the media isn't paying attention. What will both of those things happening achieve for the Asian community going forward?

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at that point, you may "fit the description"

I am pretty sure that the majority of people here (or at least in their respective groups) on this forum denounce this anti-Asian violence and rhetoric. Still, there is serious shit that is under the surface that needs to prop its head out.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

My intention with all of the posts I've made in this thread is to establish a common understanding so that people can engage with the minimum amount of context. Its not about your intent, its about interrogating *why* we're having this thread framed in the way that it is.

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No, I get that - I suppose I was more confused because I felt it was clear from jump. And if not there, from the responses that I gave you.

Sometimes I'm not as clear as I could be. I understand this as a flaw that I'm working to correct. What more could I add to help? From what I'm reading, I'm getting the sense that you believe the thread is framed in a way that is accusatory to black people. Is there something specific that makes you feel that way that I can correct?

 

[Royalan]

So I'm not looking to hash any of those specific instances out - I'm trying to see if we can't discuss the things mentioned and basically create an environment where we are able to talk to each other and address what's going on in our communities. Because otherwise, again, it'll be easy to pit us against each other.

Black and Asian activists are currently working together to address this current situation (as shown by an excellent post on page one), so I'd like us to do the same thing. Most people understood this so far, so I don't understand the need to frame it as a reaction to one post.

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I'm failing to understand this continued "Black and Asian" framing.

Black activist groups have worked together (and separately) to denounce the violence aimed at Asian-Americans and Asians globally. But that alone wouldn't be enough. Latinx organizations have done the same. Various racial activist groups are engaging in this. I myself am part of a Queer activist organization that recently held a forum where anti-Asian discrimination as experienced in our community was a central focus.

The work is never done and the work is never enough; but I'm not understanding why, in the context of Resetera, this continues to be framed as "Blacks and Asians, we need to have a sit down." I'm not seeing how that's conducive to anything other than misunderstanding (as we've seen), or other groups being sidelined in a conversation that absolutely should include everyone.

What are the issues, on Resetera, between Black and Asian posters that are unique to those two groups?

 

[RastaMentality]

at that point, you may "fit the description"

I am pretty sure that the majority of people here (or at least in their respective groups) on this forum denounce this anti-Asian violence and rhetoric. Still, there is serious shit that is under the surface that needs to prop its head out.

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Let's say they find all of the perpetrators. Do people just clock out? There has to be actual organizing or people will just take their quick wins and go.

 

[Deepwater]

No, I get that - I suppose I was more confused because I felt it was clear from jump. And if not there, from the responses that I gave you.

Sometimes I'm not as clear as I could be. I understand this as a flaw that I'm working to correct. What more could I add to help? From what I'm reading, I'm getting the sense that you believe the thread is framed in a way that is accusatory to black people. Is there something specific that makes you feel that way that I can correct?

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My point is not "this thread is accusatory and thats bad" its, "is it accusatory or is it not, pls explain". I'm not of the belief that black people are uniquely predisposed from having anti-asian beliefs. And if it is specifically about what black people are or aren't doing in response to this trend of anti-asian violence, then what is being proposed to address those grievances?

We're bouncing back and forth between hyper local instances of community conflict (and on the flipside, organizing to address it), and individual posters we can presume to be black or asian making problematic posts. Is it column A, or column B or bit of both?

 

[Deleted member 4461]

I'm failing to understand this continued "Black and Asian" framing.

Black activist groups have worked together (and separately) to denounce the violence aimed at Asian-Americans and Asians globally. But that alone wouldn't be enough. Latinx organizations have done the same. Various racial activist groups are engaging in this. I myself am part of a Queer activist organization that recently held a forum where anti-Asian discrimination as experienced in our community was a central focus.

The work is never done and the work is never enough; but I'm not understanding why, in the context of Resetera, this continues to be framed as "Black and Asians, we need to have a sit down." I'm not seeing how that's conducive to anything other than misunderstanding (as we've seen), or other groups being sidelined in a conversation that absolutely should include everyone.

What are the issues, on Resetera, between Black and Asian posters that are unique to those two groups?

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It's because it's the most recent thing. It's something I've seen in the real world and in a thread here. There are deep feelings and misunderstandings about it (again, as evidenced), and on top of all of that, it's the most significant example at this very second.

Admittedly, this could probably be two threads (as I realized based on the direction of the conversation) - but the last thread was closed in part because specific examples made it seem like it was about specific forum fights.

I wanted to make this thread universal considering the significant thing happening in the world right now, but then also talk about how all marginalized groups speak to each other on ERA. I wasn't trying to pit anyone against each other - just see how we can talk about these big, emotional issues in a way that leads to renewed understanding and can serve as a template for future discussions. Whether between black people and Asians or any other minority group.

My point is not "this thread is accusatory and thats bad" its, "is it accusatory or is it not, pls explain". I'm not of the belief that black people are uniquely predisposed from having anti-asian beliefs. And if it is specifically about what black people are or aren't doing in response to this trend of anti-asian violence, then what is being proposed to address those grievances?

We're bouncing back and forth between hyper local instances of community conflict (and on the flipside, organizing to address it), and individual posters we can presume to be black or asian making problematic posts. Is it column A, or column B or bit of both?

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Bit of both. For the framing of this thread, I assumed the way we address it here can be an example of how to address it elsewhere. It's not accusatory; black people aren't uniquely anti-Asian IMO. Black people are being blamed and ignored while we're hurting, Asian people are being blamed and ignored while they're hurting. And then some people are like "well, it's Asian people pushing anti-blackness" or "well, it's black people hurting Asians."

If we know how to address a direct conversation here, we can address it elsewhere online.

 

[krazen]

I'm failing to understand this continued "Black and Asian" framing.

Black activist groups have worked together (and separately) to denounce the violence aimed at Asian-Americans and Asians globally. But that alone wouldn't be enough. Latinx organizations have done the same. Various racial activist groups are engaging in this. I myself am part of a Queer activist organization that recently held a forum where anti-Asian discrimination as experienced in our community was a central focus.

The work is never done and the work is never enough; but I'm not understanding why, in the context of Resetera, this continues to be framed as "Blacks and Asians, we need to have a sit down." I'm not seeing how that's conducive to anything other than misunderstanding (as we've seen), or other groups being sidelined in a conversation that absolutely should include everyone.

What are the issues, on Resetera, between Black and Asian posters that are unique to those two groups?

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I mean, yeah, great point.

It's not as if there's specifically an uptick on Asian/Black animosity, it seems that (unfortunately) these hate attacks are effectively equal opportunity across the board. I would make an argument a general 'intersectionality' discussion would be better. Ultimately the animosity between the two groups aren't a unique thing that needs to be carved out from the general 'white supremacy' discussion and the way it works. Someone else covered else where, I think Powdered Egg, is that the media focusing on racial attacks when it's a black victim isn't really a positive; it's basically the equivalent to a highway chase...good for ratings. It's why when the cops inevitably get off the angle is 'Are they going to riot?!?' without a discussion on wtf just happened.

 

[Deepwater]

All of that is entirely fair, I know that the Bay Area is a bit odd in terms of having some many different minority communities pressed together in a very small geographical space. It's one of the things I love about it. Assuming I can continue to afford to live here I will, as the state has a lot more full on crazy Trump cultists the further out into the rural areas you get.

I want to be perfectly clear, I don't cast the blame on the black community at large. I also find it extremely hypocritical that what small amount of media coverage the issue is getting doesn't make any mention of the anti Asian-American violence that is being perpetrated by white people (an instance of which can be seen in this thread).

As for what the thread should discuss I agree that more clearly defining the scope, or maybe having people preface by saying where they are coming from both geographically and culturally could be helpful. I know that my lived experience only represents a small sliver of a much large whole.

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And thats part of what I'm saying because if you get most of us in a room and lay out these things like you just did, we'll quickly reach a consensus. Everybody agrees its bad, we can empirically identify where there are double standards, and we can litigate the rest.

 

[TheSaddestSort]

It's just frustrating seeing people completely misread what happened with BLM and expect it to repeat itself here 1:1 or they're going to be upset and say that one group is getting more attention than the others. BLM was a fringe organization among the black community in 2013 post-Ferguson. Black celebrities denounced it. The media denounced it. People argued endlessly about what it actually meant. It took until 2020 and George Floyd's death caught on camera for any of the activist work to translate into a mainstream movement. The same goes for the civil rights movement's start in the 40-50s, the LGBT movement, and the Latinx immigration activist movements.

Movements, as shitty as it is, take a lot of time and community building around pushing for change. Just getting media attention isn't how BLM caught on. We all saw unjust, horrible shootings come and go from Trayvon to Floyd that had people enraged, upset, and confused but ultimately did not catch sea waves. I take issue with people like Daniel Dae Kim & co just putting up bounties for the perpetrators to get arrested and thrown in prison while saying that the media isn't paying attention. What will both of those things happening achieve for the Asian community going forward?

While the perpetrators getting thrown in jail might give the families solace and justice, actual sea change is going to require a movement and pointing fingers at people and sniping on social media for not paying attention, frankly, isn't going to do much of anything.

Click to shrink...

I can only really speak for myself as an individual here, but I personally am not sitting here frustrated because people aren't out in the streets demanding change and accountability as with BLM. To be perfectly honest, I don't know if the Asian-American community has it in them.

As a Japanese-American, my grandparents were denied their rights as US citizens and were placed in internment camps during WW2 (except for any young males who either were allowed or were drafted into the US armed forces). The Japanese-American response after WW2 was to try and assimilate and assimilate hard. My grandparents didn't teach either my father or mother the Japanese language and consequently I don't know too much of it either. Japanese customs for my mom's side of the family fared a little better, but my dad didn't even really eat Japanese food until he got to college and connected with the larger Japanese-American community.

I think a lot of the frustration I personally have nowdays towards the Asian-American experience is that is really doesn't matter how American you are from a cultural or behavioral standpoint. To a significant portion of the white population you will only ever be "other". The majority white population has a pretty shit relationship with the Asian-Americans, which is something that is borne out repeatedly when you look at the history.

In mid to late 1800s you have the Chinese Exclusion Act which prevents immigration and the Alien land laws that prevent Asians from owning businesses or property. In the 1940s you have the Japanese-American internment, and immediately following that you have anti-Communism starting in the 1950s and going through the 1970s. In the 1980s and early 1990s Americans lost their collective shit over how Japan was growing into an economic powerhouse and was threatening their superiority. From the 2000s and onward, China instead takes over the position as Asian super power boogieman. Not to mention the anti-Muslim fervor that swept the nation during the War on Terror years.

Throughout all of this, the Asian-American response has mostly been: keep your head down, find a needed economic niche, and thrive. Succeed in spite of all the institutional racism thrown your way, and your children will be able to enjoy life as true Americans. Except they don't, because as soon as too many Asian-Americans teenagers get into top universities, or others become too successful in business, you can bet your ass white America's going to try and grab them by the collar and drag them back down by repackaging or renormalizing discrimination against them. It's 2021 and the lie of American equality and the myth of the model minority is wearing very, very thin.

 

[gogosox82]

That random person on Twitter is expressing a popular bs sentiment. Anti-Blackness is far too ubiquitous and there are bad faith Asians and whites making similar "observations".

The BLM movement will literally help ALL Americans if its goals are met so BLM has nothing to do with the topic. If she wants help just ask for help.

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I don't disagree with any of that. I would just say that its not particularly helpful to take a marginalized group and judge them by their worst members which is was that poster was doing.

 

[Deleted member 4346]

This is a hard thread to participate in without making generalizations and posting anecdotes, right? The black experience and the Asian experience in America are so different.

First of all Asians are not a bloc in the way that black Americans are, we have some regional differences but they are a diverse collection of identities with wildly divergent outcomes and circumstances and challenges. Japanese Americans have different experiences than Vietnamese Americans who have different experiences from Indian Americans and Pakistani Americans. And you are talking about two demographics which are not well-distributed but rather live in clustered and insular communities. Many black Americans do not have regular interactions with Asians.

What I can give is my own experiences as a black person living in the DC metro area, where Asians make up about 12% of the population (about half the number in the SF area). In our area, anti-Asian racism by black people isn't widespread. It exists and certainly we aren't immune to having bigoted beliefs about Asians but like Deepwater pointed out we don't really live in the same neighborhoods. Our communities also do not have the same issues. DC has had out-of-control gentrification over the last 20 years and there is a vast gap in wealth between Asian households here and black ones, despite PG County being the richest black-majority county in the US. Indian households here have much greater household wealth on average than white ones, even. Also, I have to say that I've been exposed to anti-black racism from Asians when I was younger. I would say that is fairly widespread, at least with regards to interracial dating between black and Asian Americans, or dealing with Asian shop owners.


I don't think most Asian-Americans perceive themselves against a backdrop of white supremacy in the same way that most black Americans do, not really, and that further adds to the struggle of empathy between us. One of my closest friends is bi-racial, Filipino and white. He's very obviously mixed-race, as am I. Growing up, both middle-class in the same courses, I can remember he would be encouraged by teachers to identify as white for the purpose of standardized testing, whereas I was not. And he never pushed back against that, was surprised when I brought it up when we were adults. His family just kinda fit in with the white community in most ways, but as an Asian man I think he didn't perceive some of the ways white men interacted differently with him. That seems common, from my perspective. It's the whole model minority myth with certain groups, especially Japanese-Americans and Chinese-Americans and Indian-Americans. Whites have granted these groups far more access than they granted us. At the same time they'll snap that access back and "other" Asians in a heartbeat; see post 9/11, see COVID-19 racial slurs from politicians. That's something that I find many immigrant communities do not really understand about white Americans, including even some black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean. You cannot trust white America. We have a massive sample size, hundreds of years, of what white America is about here at home, with institutional and personal racism, of what white supremacy is about worldwide, with imperialism and exploitation.

If anything black and Asian people should work in greater solidarity. But we don't. Of course some of that is white America pitting us against each other while they reap the rewards. But that doesn't explain all of it. It doesn't explain the silence from the Asian community by-and-large when innocent black people are killed by cops in the street. That still doesn't justify us being silent when Asians are being victimized, either. I don't want to sound like that one poster who put all the blame on Asians and whites. There is definitely anti-Asian sentiment in our community. It only rarely comes to a boil- the LA riots, COVID-19 (I didn't see much black-on-Asian violence post-9/11) but it is there. Some of it is maybe a feeling that Asians "jumped the line" so to speak, but that doesn't justify it. Shit black and indigenous people are always going to be at the bottom as long as white supremacy exists. Even in apartheid societies like the US and South Africa and Israel Asians were and are typically put above us. But they didn't create that framework. Ultimately it gets us nowhere to rage at them for being one rung higher.

Throughout all of this, the Asian-American response has mostly been: keep your head down, find a needed economic niche, and thrive. Succeed in spite of all the institutional racism thrown your way, and your children will be able to enjoy life as true Americans. Except they don't, because as soon as too many Asian-Americans teenagers get into top universities, or others become too successful in business, you can bet your ass white America's going to try and grab them by the collar and drag them back down by repackaging or renormalizing discrimination against them. It's 2021 and the lie of American equality and the myth of the model minority is wearing, very, very thin.

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Absolutely.

 

[BringBackSonics]

No racist connotations. It's what you said — Peruvian Chinese (well, Cantonese) food. We have Peruvian fried rice (arroz chaufa), Peruvian lo-mein, etc.

It's a legit real mixture of cultures and one of the reasons Peru has a top tier food scene.

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that sounds amazing

 

[Chaofahn]

Very heartening to see full, thoughtful responses here, especially compared the FB group I help moderate... 🤦‍♂️

What can these two communities do? For starters, an empathetic understanding that both groups' experiences with racism and oppression are valid - comparisons about "who had it worse" and "well Group A did this, us Group B didn't do that" does not help anything, and the discrimination faced by both communities continue to damage equally (albeit through different manifestations of racism).

For the longest time, many perhaps failed to understand that Asian communities were facing toxic discrimination due to the racism mostly being passive; yet, it definitely exists, further instigated during the Trump era.

African-American issues are widely discussed, and some even white-Americans are clued in (or more aware) of the community's experiences with racism. It's great and it's a shame that there is less motivation to do the same for other ethnic minorities. Too often I see American articles talk about "diversity" but the diversity only extends to white and black individuals.

As for the recent attacks in the US, unfortunately as an outsider looking in there's probably a lot of context I'll be missing, but an understanding between Black Americans and Asian Americans that they're on the same team would help - both are playing a game against a system that is rigged against them, and collaboration would help elevate them against the limitations placed upon them.

The Japanese-American response after WW2 was to try and assimilate and assimilate hard. My grandparents didn't teach either my father or mother the Japanese language and consequently I don't know too much of it either. Japanese customs for my mom's side of the family fared a little better, but my dad didn't even really eat Japanese food until he got to college and connected with the larger Japanese-American community.

I think a lot of the frustration I personally have nowdays towards the Asian-American experience is that is really doesn't matter how American you are from a cultural or behavioral standpoint. To a significant portion of the white population you will only ever be "other". The majority white population has a pretty shit relationship with the Asian-Americans, which is something that is borne out repeatedly when you look at the history.

Click to shrink...

Feeling this hard. The Perpetual Foreigner syndrome, not just here in my birth country, but back in my parents' country too. 😭

 

[TheSaddestSort]

I don't think most Asian-Americans perceive themselves against a backdrop of white supremacy in the same way that most black Americans do, not really, and that further adds to the struggle of empathy between us. One of my closest friends is bi-racial, Filipino and white. He's very obviously mixed-race, as am I. Growing up, both middle-class in the same courses, I can remember he would be encouraged by teachers to identify as white for the purpose of standardized testing, whereas I was not. And he never pushed back against that, was surprised when I brought it up when we were adults. His family just kinda fit in with the white community in most ways, but as an Asian man I think he didn't perceive some of the ways white men interacted differently with him. That seems common, from my perspective. It's the whole model minority myth with certain groups, especially Japanese-Americans and Chinese-Americans and Indian-Americans. Whites have granted these groups far more access than they granted us. At the same time they'll snap that access back and "other" Asians in a heartbeat; see post 9/11, see COVID-19 racial slurs from politicians. That's something that I find many immigrant communities do not really understand about white Americans, including even some black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean. You cannot trust white America. We have a massive sample size, hundreds of years, of what white America is about here at home, with institutional and personal racism, of what white supremacy is about worldwide, with imperialism and exploitation.

If anything black and Asian people should work in greater solidarity. But we don't. Of course some of that is white America pitting us against each other while they reap the rewards. But that doesn't explain all of it. It doesn't explain the silence from the Asian community by-and-large when innocent black people are killed by cops in the street. That still doesn't justify us being silent when Asians are being victimized, either. I don't want to sound like that one poster who put all the blame on Asians and whites. There is definitely anti-Asian sentiment in our community. It only rarely comes to a boil- the LA riots, COVID-19 (I didn't see much black-on-Asian violence post-9/11) but it is there. Some of it is maybe a feeling that Asians "jumped the line" so to speak, but that doesn't justify it. Shit black and indigenous people are always going to be at the bottom as long as white supremacy exists. Even in apartheid societies like the US and South Africa and Israel Asians were and are typically put above us. But they didn't create that framework. Ultimately it gets us nowhere to rage at them for being one rung higher.

Click to shrink...

Very heartening to see full, thoughtful responses here, especially compared the FB group I help moderate... 🤦‍♂️

What can these two communities do? For starters, an empathetic understanding that both groups' experiences with racism and oppression are valid - comparisons about "who had it worse" and "well Group A did this, us Group B didn't do that" does not help anything, and the discrimination faced by both communities continue to damage equally (albeit through different manifestations of racism).

For the longest time, many perhaps failed to understand that Asian communities were facing toxic discrimination due to the racism mostly being passive; yet, it definitely exists, further instigated during the Trump era.

African-American issues are widely discussed, and some even white-Americans are clued in (or more aware) of the community's experiences with racism. It's great and it's a shame that there is less motivation to do the same for other ethnic minorities. Too often I see American articles talk about "diversity" but the diversity only extends to white and black individuals.

As for the recent attacks in the US, unfortunately as an outsider looking in there's probably a lot of context I'll be missing, but an understanding between Black Americans and Asian Americans that they're on the same team would help - both are playing a game against a system that is rigged against them, and collaboration would help elevate them against the limitations placed upon them.

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I just wanted to say that I found these posts to be really great and insightful. Thank you for making them.

Feeling this hard. The Perpetual Foreigner syndrome, not just here in my birth country, but back in my parents' country too. 😭

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This really strikes a cord with me too. It sucks feeling like you don't really fit in anywhere because somehow you aren't _______ enough. Just is really a crummy feeling. I guess all I can say is that if you do find some form of community you like, cherish it and work to make it better. You're clearly doing both, so I take my hat off to you.

 

[ibyea]

Korean descent here, I agree with Deepwater here. Thread seems pointless as currently conceived, and without certain parameters in place, the last thing I want is a place where people poorly project their own grievance to everyone else.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

Korean descent here, I agree with Deepwater here. Thread seems pointless as currently conceived, and without certain parameters in place, the last thing I want is a place where people poorly project their own grievance to everyone else.

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Apharmd and Chaofahn just made fantastic responses. With respect to both you and Deepwater , I believe enough people got the point of the thread that I don't really want to keep overexplaining & wasting the awesome posts that have been made + the potential discussion. There are multiple full explanations and examples from other posters from multiple groups on how to participate.

Please refer to those if you need to; thank you.

 

[capitalCORN]

Let me make a deeply unwanted post to interact with intersectionalism. It lacks historical context. What I mean is a historical context that precedes the current modal because it's frankly alien to I will confidently say most that come to the West as first generations. A lot of folk liken the passage of time to the rose tinted glasses of natural course of history being continually liberating, but under such guise there's a past and modern history of international violence that is still to be addressed, and probably decades to centuries to unravel the machines of exploitative production. Slogans and marches mean nothing here. And when the most powerful capitol in the world ran just shy of the cusp of someone as despicable as it has, It's time for a new formulation.

 

[Royalan]

For the longest time, many perhaps failed to understand that Asian communities were facing toxic discrimination due to the racism mostly being passive; yet, it definitely exists, further instigated during the Trump era.

African-American issues are widely discussed, and some even white-Americans are clued in (or more aware) of the community's experiences with racism. It's great and it's a shame that there is less motivation to do the same for other ethnic minorities. Too often I see American articles talk about "diversity" but the diversity only extends to white and black individuals.

Click to shrink...

I do want to address this, because harping on how much coverage "Black issues" get can be somewhat of a reductive take on how Black issues get discussed, and the purpose of a lot of that coverage. And I do think it can lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that was present in the beginning of this thread (and may have played a role in why the previous incarnation of this thread was locked).

To sum up, do Black issues get a lot of discussion? Yes. But what's missed is that a lot of that discussion…isn't good.

Speaking for myself, and my little corner of Philadelphia, and a lot of Black people that I interact with, 2020 (and 2021 so far) was an especially mentally harmful year for Black people. Yes, our movements got a lot of coverage on the collective backs of our lost lives. But what form did a lot of that coverage take?

Black people had to watch so many of us, unarmed, murdered in cold blood. We then had to watch those videos, on 24 hour loop, cycled on cable news, and social media by "well-meaning" allies. The constant, visual reminders everywhere we went that our lives didn't mean shit. We had to watch politicians, and pundits, and columnists, a lot of whom were NOT white (I am not going to shit on white people here because they were not alone), argue why these killings were justified with all the dexterity and understanding of a middle school console war debate.

Queer and specifically Trans Black folk had to be reminded, by the dozens of lost beautiful lives, that Black Trans women can be murdered and not even see justice within their own communities. And 2021 is so far keeping with this trend.

And even when we marched, it was with the bittersweetness that while we had solidarity for a time, it would be for a time that was fleeting (as reflected by opinion polls). Summer 2020 will forever be known among a lot of Black people as the "Summer when people cared about Black issues for 20 minutes," because although I may not always agree with this sentiment, it is the sentiment among a lot of Black people that the Black death that was highlighted in 2020, that was looped unrepentantly, the senseless killings that people marched for, did not lead to anything substantial long-term for Black people, and in a lot of cases was effectively used against us (as evidenced by the 101 "Abolish the Police" threads). It is the feeling among a lot of Black people that Black issues get used for "woke cred" among a lot of folks on the left, and actively used to promote an anti-Black agenda among a lot of folks on the right. We have to sit back and watch the language and imagery of Black movements get appropriated by people who otherwise don't give a shit about Black lives or Black sensitivities. Watch corporations put out BLM tweets while refusing to hire us. Watch the NFL reference BLM while continuing to smear Kaepernick. Watch Black culture become popular among people who wouldn't spit on us if we were burning. Yes, this is coverage. But this coverage is trash.

I myself had to block people, dozens of well-meaning people, and create social media accounts titled "Black Pretty Things ONLY" to escape the onslaught of negative Black coverage within the last two years. And I know so many other Black people that had to do the same. It was just too hard, being bombarded with the imagery, with people's concerns, with the demand for allyship that we were already giving, when I (and so many other Black people) were hurting. A friend of mine put it in a way that I will never forget: 2020 felt like a collective reminder "of what our place is" by white supremacy.

And this is not to play oppression Olympics. Absolutely not. But, at least from my perspective, to assert "coverage" of Black issues as some sort of mark of privilege or a benchmark is incredibly harmful, in no small part offensive, and relegates Black people to a role not encompassing of a real, whole group of people who have only been advocating for our lives this entire time; but instead positions us as a "mascot" for minorities as a whole and deserving of scorn when other minorities don't receive "our treatment."

 

[Deleted member 4461]

but instead positions us as a "mascot" for minorities as a whole and deserving of scorn when other minorities don't receive "our treatment."

Click to shrink...

The whole post was spot on & I'd recommend people read it. I wanted to comment on this in particular because I notice a clear trend here. Black people being positioned as the mascot for paying attention to minorities, Asians being positioned as the mascot for what minorities should be.

It creates resentment. The opinion polls is a good example - people got tired of hearing about black issues. The worst part of it is that it's not even like anything was done. I promise you - maybe there's some black person out there who needed Aunt Jemima to change their name. But I promise it wasn't me. Wasn't my friends or my group in general. There was so much talk and so much performative action, which - don't get me wrong, I understand. Companies are trying to protect their brands. People are trying to combat racism in the small ways that they can. But it doesn't add up to the things black people were ACTUALLY asking for.

Yet even still, we're a mascot. An "example of people caring about minorities," or a group that's "untouchable and can't be criticized." But that's not right at all.

I'll add - and please call me out if you feel that I'm off-base, Asian ERA, as I'm also learning & fiddling with wording...

I feel that the perceived visibility also reflects the stereotypes people have for each of us. Black people are considered to be universally "loud and aggressive," while Asians are considered to be the opposite.

 

[GundamBacon]

Vermillion Thanks for creating this thread. I think it has chance of being a constructive discussion.

I think the posts made by TheSaddestSort and Royalan are great examples of the potential discourse we can have, and I think it would be helpful if these were added to the OP.

I'll likely continue to follow this thread, but haven't decided to contribute, since I don't think I have anything new to add here, that wasn't already mentioned.

 

[TheSaddestSort]

I do want to address this, because harping on how much coverage "Black issues" get can be somewhat of a reductive take on how Black issues get discussed, and the purpose of a lot of that coverage. And I do think it can lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that was present in the beginning of this thread (and may have played a role in why the previous incarnation of this thread was locked).

To sum up, do Black issues get a lot of discussion? Yes. But what's missed is that a lot of that discussion…isn't good.

Speaking for myself, and my little corner of Philadelphia, and a lot of Black people that I interact with, 2020 (and 2021 so far) was an especially mentally harmful year for Black people. Yes, our movements got a lot of coverage on the collective backs of our lost lives. But what form did a lot of that coverage take?

Black people had to watch so many of us, unarmed, murdered in cold blood. We then had to watch those videos, on 24 hour loop, cycled on cable news, and social media by "well-meaning" allies. The constant, visual reminders everywhere we went that our lives didn't mean shit. We had to watch politicians, and pundits, and columnists, a lot of whom were NOT white (I am not going to shit on white people here because they were not alone), argue why these killings were justified with all the dexterity and understanding of a middle school console war debate.

Queer and specifically Trans Black folk had to be reminded, by the dozens of lost beautiful lives, that Black Trans women can be murdered and not even see justice within their own communities. And 2021 is so far keeping with this trend.

And even when we marched, it was with the bittersweetness that while we had solidarity for a time, it would be for a time that was fleeting (as reflected by opinion polls). Summer 2020 will forever be known among a lot of Black people as the "Summer when people cared about Black issues for 20 minutes," because although I may not always agree with this sentiment, it is the sentiment among a lot of Black people that the Black death that was highlighted in 2020, that was looped unrepentantly, the senseless killings that people marched for, did not lead to anything substantial long-term for Black people, and in a lot of cases was effectively used against us (as evidenced by the 101 "Abolish the Police" threads). It is the feeling among a lot of Black people that Black issues get used for "woke cred" among a lot of folks on the left, and actively used to promote an anti-Black agenda among a lot of folks on the right. We have to sit back and watch the language and imagery of Black movements get appropriated by people who otherwise don't give a shit about Black lives or Black sensitivities. Watch corporations put out BLM tweets while refusing to hire us. Watch the NFL reference BLM while continuing to smear Kaepernick. Watch Black culture become popular among people who wouldn't spit on us if we were burning. Yes, this is coverage. But this coverage is trash.

I myself had to block people, dozens of well-meaning people, and create social media accounts titled "Black Pretty Things ONLY" to escape the onslaught of negative Black coverage within the last two years. And I know so many other Black people that had to do the same. It was just too hard, being bombarded with the imagery, with people's concerns, with the demand for allyship that we were already giving, when I (and so many other Black people) were hurting. A friend of mine put it in a way that I will never forget: 2020 felt like a collective reminder "of what our place is" by white supremacy.

And this is not to play oppression Olympics. Absolutely not. But, at least from my perspective, to assert "coverage" of Black issues as some sort of mark of privilege or a benchmark is incredibly harmful, in no small part offensive, and relegates Black people to a role not encompassing of a real, whole group of people who have only been advocating for our lives this entire time; but instead positions us as a "mascot" for minorities as a whole and deserving of scorn when other minorities don't receive "our treatment."

Click to shrink...

I appreciate you making this post. I can relate to wanting to just utterly cut myself off from current news, as a lot of it over the past four years has made me deeply upset and feel depressed. I can't say that I have an inherent understanding of all the issues you laid out because I'm not black and don't live with them the way you do. But they do echo points I've seen raised by other people from the black community.

I mean this next bit sincerely. What do you feel are the best ways to show support for the black community? I understand that while some of it may be well intentioned, simply posting a black square on Instagram and saying black lives matter can feel like it's an exercise in performative wokeness and rings hollow. I've donated what little money I can to national groups like the ACLU. I didn't show up the big local BLM protests due to my fears about COVID.

I'm not pressing for an answer, so don't feel like you have to give me one. But if you do want to offer anything I'm all ears.

The whole post was spot on & I'd recommend people read it. I wanted to comment on this in particular because I notice a clear trend here. Black people being positioned as the mascot for paying attention to minorities, Asians being positioned as the mascot for what minorities should be.

It creates resentment. The opinion polls is a good example - people got tired of hearing about black issues. The worst part of it is that it's not even like anything was done. I promise you - maybe there's some black person out there who needed Aunt Jemima to change their name. But I promise it wasn't me. Wasn't my friends or my group in general. There was so much talk and so much performative action, which - don't get me wrong, I understand. Companies are trying to protect their brands. People are trying to combat racism in the small ways that they can. But it doesn't add up to the things black people were ACTUALLY asking for.

Yet even still, we're a mascot. An "example of people caring about minorities," or a group that's "untouchable and can't be criticized." But that's not right at all.

I'll add - and please call me out if you feel that I'm off-base, Asian ERA, as I'm also learning & fiddling with wording...

I feel that the perceived visibility also reflects the stereotypes people have for each of us. Black people are considered to be universally "loud and aggressive," while Asians are considered to be the opposite.

Click to shrink...

I think you raised some really good points here, especially about how the white majority can twist their interactions with both the black and Asian-American communities towards their own gains. It's sad, but it has more than a ring of truth.

I also want to say I really appreciate that you made this thread, even if it had a rocky beginning. At this point I think I'll bow out and give the space to anyone else who wants to chime in rather than monopolizing the thread.

 

[Chaofahn]

I do want to address this, because harping on how much coverage "Black issues" get can be somewhat of a reductive take on how Black issues get discussed, and the purpose of a lot of that coverage. And I do think it can lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that was present in the beginning of this thread (and may have played a role in why the previous incarnation of this thread was locked).

Click to shrink...

Understood, definitely not the intent behind my response, so apologies if it sounded in any way reductive. It was more of a perspective from my end as an Asian living in a western country, and more about the absence and awareness that Asians are being affected by racism as well.

To sum up, do Black issues get a lot of discussion? Yes. But what's missed is that a lot of that discussion…isn't good.

Speaking for myself, and my little corner of Philadelphia, and a lot of Black people that I interact with, 2020 (and 2021 so far) was an especially mentally harmful year for Black people. Yes, our movements got a lot of coverage on the collective backs of our lost lives. But what form did a lot of that coverage take?

Black people had to watch so many of us, unarmed, murdered in cold blood. We then had to watch those videos, on 24 hour loop, cycled on cable news, and social media by "well-meaning" allies. The constant, visual reminders everywhere we went that our lives didn't mean shit. We had to watch politicians, and pundits, and columnists, a lot of whom were NOT white (I am not going to shit on white people here because they were not alone), argue why these killings were justified with all the dexterity and understanding of a middle school console war debate.

Queer and specifically Trans Black folk had to be reminded, by the dozens of lost beautiful lives, that Black Trans women can be murdered and not even see justice within their own communities. And 2021 is so far keeping with this trend.

And even when we marched, it was with the bittersweetness that while we had solidarity for a time, it would be for a time that was fleeting (as reflected by opinion polls). Summer 2020 will forever be known among a lot of Black people as the "Summer when people cared about Black issues for 20 minutes," because although I may not always agree with this sentiment, it is the sentiment among a lot of Black people that the Black death that was highlighted in 2020, that was looped unrepentantly, the senseless killings that people marched for, did not lead to anything substantial long-term for Black people, and in a lot of cases was effectively used against us (as evidenced by the 101 "Abolish the Police" threads). It is the feeling among a lot of Black people that Black issues get used for "woke cred" among a lot of folks on the left, and actively used to promote an anti-Black agenda among a lot of folks on the right. We have to sit back and watch the language and imagery of Black movements get appropriated by people who otherwise don't give a shit about Black lives or Black sensitivities. Watch corporations put out BLM tweets while refusing to hire us. Watch the NFL reference BLM while continuing to smear Kaepernick. Watch Black culture become popular among people who wouldn't spit on us if we were burning. Yes, this is coverage. But this coverage is trash.
And even when we marched, it was with the bittersweetness that while we had solidarity for a time, it would be for a time that was fleeting (as reflected by opinion polls). Summer 2020 will forever be known among a lot of Black people as the "Summer when people cared about Black issues for 20 minutes," because although I may not always agree with this sentiment, it is the sentiment among a lot of Black people that the Black death that was highlighted in 2020, that was looped unrepentantly, the senseless killings that people marched for, did not lead to anything substantial long-term for Black people, and in a lot of cases was effectively used against us (as evidenced by the 101 "Abolish the Police" threads). It is the feeling among a lot of Black people that Black issues get used for "woke cred" among a lot of folks on the left, and actively used to promote an anti-Black agenda among a lot of folks on the right. We have to sit back and watch the language and imagery of Black movements get appropriated by people who otherwise don't give a shit about Black lives or Black sensitivities. Watch corporations put out BLM tweets while refusing to hire us. Watch the NFL reference BLM while continuing to smear Kaepernick. Watch Black culture become popular among people who wouldn't spit on us if we were burning. Yes, this is coverage. But this coverage is trash.

I myself had to block people, dozens of well-meaning people, and create social media accounts titled "Black Pretty Things ONLY" to escape the onslaught of negative Black coverage within the last two years. And I know so many other Black people that had to do the same. It was just too hard, being bombarded with the imagery, with people's concerns, with the demand for allyship that we were already giving, when I (and so many other Black people) were hurting. A friend of mine put it in a way that I will never forget: 2020 felt like a collective reminder "of what our place is" by white supremacy.

Click to shrink...

Cripes. Definitely seeing those constant reminders about one's "place" in society is disheartening. And I totally agree with many groups using BLM and feigned concern for... likes? Clout? Where was the genuine concern for the Black Community? A black square was never going to solve anything, and you're absolutely correct in that the BLM movement was an unfortunate fleeting moment. The conversation should have kept rolling, and the misuse of the original message is maddening indeed.

Despite different situations, I feel that the Asian diaspora have the opposite end of the racism umbrella - we're constantly being reminded of our place (albeit passively), be it the perpetual foreigner syndrome (despite attempts at assimilation), bamboo ceilings, the fetishisation of Asian women, the constant emasculation by western media on Asian male characters, the lumping of us as a monolith despite our diverse backgrounds... just to name a few

The key is that's there's just very little conversations, regardless of quality, and when we voice our concerns we're met with a resounding "meh". Discussions regarding Asian matters tend to be very surface level too, and not many dig into the nuances of our experiences and concerns.

We're gonna have some crappy conversation no matter what (see: start of this thread), but more discussions, I feel, would at least keep these Asian issues in the forefront of people's mind, and at the very least helping maintain constant awareness that our negative experiences with racism are equally valid.

On another note, perhaps one big factor why there might not be lots talk about Asian issues (at least for East Asians) is that we're culturally inclined towards conformism, and speaking out about these matters is not something that happens regularly, so there's that, I suppose. It's up to us next-gen Asians to work on and aspire to greater things, including solidarity with other groups such as African Americans.

And this is not to play oppression Olympics. Absolutely not. But, at least from my perspective, to assert "coverage" of Black issues as some sort of mark of privilege or a benchmark is incredibly harmful, in no small part offensive, and relegates Black people to a role not encompassing of a real, whole group of people who have only been advocating for our lives this entire time; but instead positions us as a "mascot" for minorities as a whole and deserving of scorn when other minorities don't receive "our treatment."

Click to shrink...

Again, definitely not my intention and I'm appreciative of you giving a perspective I would have otherwise not known.

The "lack of coverage" angle was more about lack of awareness on the Asian experience with racism - and perhaps one of the reasons why there might be a misunderstanding and animosity between the African American and Asian American communities.

Conversely, the over-coverage of African Americans in media has also skewed older Asians' opinions towards black people, so perhaps the solution is to find the middle ground and/or participate more in conversations like this - an exchange of experiences and empathising with each other.

 

[Bruce Ler0y]

Here in the East ive always looked at Asians as allies. I think the problem that I see over here is that Asians rarely if ever speak up about their oppression and racism, so their struggles get swept under the rug. I know it exist, I've seen it happen and thats why I fight for all minority groups to get out from under the thumb of white supremacy.

Imagine what a movement would look like if we all just joined forces. We could get alot accomplished in a shorter time.

White supremacy exist to divide. If you understand this then you understand why Latinos, Blacks, and Asians have not come together under one platform.

 

[Bob Beat]

I have written and deleted 2 or 3 posts because I don't know what's expected of this thread. I'm lost.

I do want to address this, because harping on how much coverage "Black issues" get can be somewhat of a reductive take on how Black issues get discussed, and the purpose of a lot of that coverage. And I do think it can lead to a lot of the misunderstanding that was present in the beginning of this thread (and may have played a role in why the previous incarnation of this thread was locked).

To sum up, do Black issues get a lot of discussion? Yes. But what's missed is that a lot of that discussion…isn't good.

Speaking for myself, and my little corner of Philadelphia, and a lot of Black people that I interact with, 2020 (and 2021 so far) was an especially mentally harmful year for Black people. Yes, our movements got a lot of coverage on the collective backs of our lost lives. But what form did a lot of that coverage take?

Black people had to watch so many of us, unarmed, murdered in cold blood. We then had to watch those videos, on 24 hour loop, cycled on cable news, and social media by "well-meaning" allies. The constant, visual reminders everywhere we went that our lives didn't mean shit. We had to watch politicians, and pundits, and columnists, a lot of whom were NOT white (I am not going to shit on white people here because they were not alone), argue why these killings were justified with all the dexterity and understanding of a middle school console war debate.

Queer and specifically Trans Black folk had to be reminded, by the dozens of lost beautiful lives, that Black Trans women can be murdered and not even see justice within their own communities. And 2021 is so far keeping with this trend.

And even when we marched, it was with the bittersweetness that while we had solidarity for a time, it would be for a time that was fleeting (as reflected by opinion polls). Summer 2020 will forever be known among a lot of Black people as the "Summer when people cared about Black issues for 20 minutes," because although I may not always agree with this sentiment, it is the sentiment among a lot of Black people that the Black death that was highlighted in 2020, that was looped unrepentantly, the senseless killings that people marched for, did not lead to anything substantial long-term for Black people, and in a lot of cases was effectively used against us (as evidenced by the 101 "Abolish the Police" threads). It is the feeling among a lot of Black people that Black issues get used for "woke cred" among a lot of folks on the left, and actively used to promote an anti-Black agenda among a lot of folks on the right. We have to sit back and watch the language and imagery of Black movements get appropriated by people who otherwise don't give a shit about Black lives or Black sensitivities. Watch corporations put out BLM tweets while refusing to hire us. Watch the NFL reference BLM while continuing to smear Kaepernick. Watch Black culture become popular among people who wouldn't spit on us if we were burning. Yes, this is coverage. But this coverage is trash.

I myself had to block people, dozens of well-meaning people, and create social media accounts titled "Black Pretty Things ONLY" to escape the onslaught of negative Black coverage within the last two years. And I know so many other Black people that had to do the same. It was just too hard, being bombarded with the imagery, with people's concerns, with the demand for allyship that we were already giving, when I (and so many other Black people) were hurting. A friend of mine put it in a way that I will never forget: 2020 felt like a collective reminder "of what our place is" by white supremacy.

And this is not to play oppression Olympics. Absolutely not. But, at least from my perspective, to assert "coverage" of Black issues as some sort of mark of privilege or a benchmark is incredibly harmful, in no small part offensive, and relegates Black people to a role not encompassing of a real, whole group of people who have only been advocating for our lives this entire time; but instead positions us as a "mascot" for minorities as a whole and deserving of scorn when other minorities don't receive "our treatment."

Click to shrink...

Roy is right on target. Any coverage of black issues is because of many reasons. Black ppl have been criticized, rejected, gaslit, assaulted, raped, murdered, forgotten, fired, used as pawns, etc.

Any BLM story has to account for Kap, who still doesn't have a job. The dead in the street. They are not coming back. Walter Scott isn't coming back. Trayvon isn't coming back. And a number of names we don't talk about. Who won't get a protest. My resume won't get pulled out the trash. It's there because my first name is 'funny' to pronounce but that opportunity is still lost, forever.

There are a billion ways black ppl have suffered. We are constantly making chitlins out of shit and any conversation about the focus on black ppl has to account for that.

I'm not here to talk bad about other communities. Anti Asian bigotry is disgusting.

However, all protest comes at a cost and black ppl are paying it daily, just to get nothing. It still feels like the 60s. I can be killed for no reason, by a roving gang of bigots, who wear costumes and will get no justice. Protests aren't justice. Life sentences and a hesitancy to kill black ppl will be a small measure of justice. But a lot of black ppl feel there are no other options. Just bad and worse options. If you see a focus on black issues, it's because of courage and audacity and a distinct lack of options. Look at most black ppl in the light of having bad and worse options and that may clarify. I hope.

I'm sorry for the anti Asian attacks. There is a lot of white supremacy, in all corners. Even anti black hatred in our own black community. If you feel the need to give up with engaging, I know exactly how you feel. This last ten years have been the worst century of my life and I'm exhausted. I'm tired. I want to cry. We aren't making headway. We got kids whose future looks horrible. Climate change will hurt marginalized communities and any mass movement of the unwanted ppl (caribbean, central and south american, african, south east asian, etc) will generate a huge response from white supremacy.

I think I just stumbled onto why I'm having trouble: it's depressing. We are going thru a pandemic where the rich, us, fucked up and are getting bailed out by vaccines while 130 countries haven't gotten a single dose. I've wrestled with the meaning of that all week. I'm glad I got mine but I'm just another cog in this machine.

The Syrian war caused all this ignition of latent racism and bigotry because of mass movements of unwanted ppl. And it will happen again.

It's hard to have this discussion without devolving into this pit. If you want to tap out, I understand. It's hard. It's infuriating. It's painful. There's many tears. White supremacy cares not about any of us. It doesn't even really care about all white ppl. It only cares about rich, cis gendered, heterosexual, white men. Who agree with right leaning ideology.

So I ask ppl, plz let's not make this a black vs anyone else. Don't ask where black ppl have been. You won't like the answer. Or any questions that come back.

Unfortunately, all this experience making chitlins out of shit gives off the wrong vibe. We have too much misogyny and toxic masculinity in our community to truly show what is happening. We joke, we use music or whatever. But I actually cried writing this post. It's painful. You don't see the true experience. We won't let you. Steal our joy. We got no other option. Just bad and worse.

 

[Nepenthe]

There is nothing else I can add that is particularly insightful from my perspective as a black person, although I do want to reiterate deep's mention of the fact that I don't really have any meaningful relationship with "Asian people" as a community, both because we don't live together (In Georgia, there aren't a lot of mixed black and Asian communities), the invisibility aspect that Asian members have discussed, and my own lack of knowledge of all the various cultures that are widely grouped under the "Asian" label.

I have met innumerable Asian individuals at my school and jobs (East Asian and Indian, primarily), and they have each run the gamut of political experiences and thus their empathy Black folks. Most I had no beef with, and even the ones who have slipped up by saying something prejudiced don't really muster up any hard feelings because that is ultimately a symptom of white supremacy, and not an indictment of the whole of the culture that any individual would belongs to. At the end of the day though, we congregated for work, and after punching out, I went to my neighborhood and they went to theirs.

So, sadly, I have no meaningful relationship with the "Asian community," but ultimately this also means I'm not sure how to approach a topic that implies we have anything to hash out. Asian people aren't the problem in my life.

 

[mikeys_legendary]

I can't speak for the Bay Area, but in my experience, Black people and East Asian people don't really have much contact with each other outside of businesses that may be owned by Asian people in predominantly Black neighborhoods.

Now, outside of that, it seems to me like there is a concerted effort among East Asians to integrate into White America as quickly as possible - which may not sound too bad but what ended up happening is White people used Asians as a prop against Affirmative Action programs. Some malicious white folk have convinced Asians that the reason they didn't get that seat at Harvard or Columbia is because it went to some kid in the hood who isn't qualified. The truth is "Legacy" students have been taking those seats for generations - rich white kids who's parents went to that school and have donated money to that school.

Now, back to my own community - there is an acceptance for many types of bigotry in the Black community. Many have no problem with others calling an Asian woman Ling-Ling or making fun of an Indian person's accent to name a few. (Homophobic and transphobic conversations are not uncommon either, but I'll stay on topic.) I believe this stems from a belief prevalent among Black people that Blacks cannot be racist and as such they dismiss the racist comments of their friends and colleagues as jokes. Allowing these ideas to fester most certainly leads to more of us than we'd like to believe believing that these kinds of comments are acceptable - opening the gates to violence against Asians.

I have never been to San Francisco, but have spent significant amounts of time in NYC, Nashville, Atlanta and Orlando and these are just my observations of course.

 

[Japanmanx3]

There is nothing else I can add that is particularly insightful from my perspective as a black person, although I do want to reiterate deep's mention of the fact that I don't really have any meaningful relationship with "Asian people" as a community, both because we don't live together (In Georgia, there aren't a lot of mixed black and Asian communities), the invisibility aspect that Asian members have discussed, and my own lack of knowledge of all the various cultures that are widely grouped under the "Asian" label.

I have met innumerable Asian individuals at my school and jobs (East Asian and Indian, primarily), and they have each run the gamut of political experiences and thus their empathy Black folks. Most I had no beef with, and even the ones who have slipped up by saying something prejudiced don't really muster up any hard feelings because that is ultimately a symptom of white supremacy, and not an indictment of the whole of the culture that any individual would belongs to. At the end of the day though, we congregated for work, and after punching out, I went to my neighborhood and they went to theirs.

So, sadly, I have no meaningful relationship with the "Asian community," but ultimately this also means I'm not sure how to approach a topic that implies we have anything to hash out. Asian people aren't the problem in my life.

Click to shrink...

Same. From Atlanta to Riverdale, my life hasn't involved the Asian community here directly. Nor have I heard of anything popping off between the two communities here in the city. So idk. The framing of the thread is weird to me and my personal experience, or lack there of.

I didn't finish college, but the biggest interactions I would've had with them would've been between my time at GSU and Clayton State. But tbh even then, everything was mad chill.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

Vermillion Thanks for creating this thread. I think it has chance of being a constructive discussion.

I think the posts made by TheSaddestSort and Royalan are great examples of the potential discourse we can have, and I think it would be helpful if these were added to the OP.

I'll likely continue to follow this thread, but haven't decided to contribute, since I don't think I have anything new to add here, that wasn't already mentioned.

Click to shrink...

Took your suggestion! Thank you.

Same. From Atlanta to Riverdale, my life hasn't involved the Asian community here directly. Nor have I heard of anything popping off between the two communities here in the city. So idk. The framing of the thread is weird to me and my personal experience, or lack there of.

I didn't finish college, but the biggest interactions I would've had with them would've been between my time at GSU and Clayton State. But tbh even then, everything was mad chill.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I think the most surprising thing for me so far is the number of black people who have said they don't regularly interact with Asian people. Maybe part of this is that I ascribed more of my experience to this thread than is applicable to other people.

Because there's never been a time in my life where I didn't actively know Asians. Next door neighbor, my friends in high school, college friends... so on. So I wasn't prepared to hear that others had limited or non-existent interactions.

So that's one thing. I believe that maybe people understand this thread better depending on A) their personal experiences & B) how much of this framing they've seen online in general.

I hadn't been prepared for that diversity of experience, so I guess it makes sense that some people come in here and they're like "I don't know anything about this" and others are like "okay, well let's talk about anti-other sentiments and how we interact and how the media or other actors are trying to frame us."

But, I don't know that I can personally make up for that gap in experience - it seems it's either you're in it or you aren't.