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Bill Maher Goes Full Sexist, Defends Chris Matthews and Mocks His Sexual Harassment Accuser
- Thread starter BarcaTheGreat
- Start date
That wasn't why he was canned, though.
Regarding the question, context matters. Doing that on a TV and only to women comes off as very unprofessional. He also followed up you look nice today with more overt overtures about appearance.
His male guests were never subject to that treatment.
Maybe read the article before posting in a thread about sexual harassment?
Yes, there's a lot of shitting on...sexism, racism, and anti-intellectualism? Are these bad things?
I'd say quit while you were ahead, but you started off way behind. Firstly, that isn't what Matthews said in the first place, you should consider focusing your discussion around what actually happened in the article. Secondly, yes, that can be offensive in many situations.
User Banned (1 week): Derailing a sensitive thread with inappropriate off-topic commentary
I'm not asking why he was canned. If I ask the question "you look nice today" is considered offensive. That's it.
First of all, that's not a question.
Secondly, why ask this here? Just asking questions?
Dude I'll be first in line to note that the liberal obsession with cancelling people can have serious problems but this dude is legitimate human garbage who provides nothing of value to the left.
Look at my post history and tell me what my true intent is.
Then my next question is where is the time and place to ask?
There is no such thing as cancel culture. It's called being held responsible for your words and deeds. Is that a foreign concept to you?
Fuck Bill Maher, fuck Chris Matthews, fuck any old, privileged white man that's been behaving this way their entire lives and getting away with it.
Drag. Them. All.
Drag. Them. All.
Watch this and tell me when a straight face that what he did isn't offensive.
How can you ask that and expect a reasonable answer? You're purposefully stripping away any context to try to make some hard-and-fast rule, you know that's not how it works, it's not how a lot of things work. If you said that to your friend you've known for years and you have a good relationship, of course there's nothing wrong with it. If you say it to an employee, that is a different story. If you say it to someone you barely know, it's a different story.
When even Chris Matthews is more gracious and self aware than you then you fucked up. Matthews was plainly incensed that he blew up super fast - and I doubt he sincerely thinks he's architected his own doom - but was either cynical enough or self aware enough to call out his own behavior as "always inappropriate."
Bill Maher is like a sort of slo-mo version of Dennis Miller who killed his career and turned into (or revealed his true inner self) a right wing douchelord almost overnight after 9/11. It's almost an excuse.
Maher's "traumatizing event" appears to be a decade of learning that you can't hide your misogyny and bad takes inside ever more snide comedy.
Even successful conservative comedians like Tim Allen and Larry the Cable Guy succeed by avoiding conservative ideas in their comedy. The art has always relied on punching up. Sure you can make a few assholes laugh at racist jokes in a club but it never scales. Punching down is radioactive to successful comedy.
And the rare times it works are self effacing (you might be a redneck). Maher isn't conservative- but he's rapidly becoming a living embodiment of the otherwise imaginary "coastal liberal elite" and apparently doesn't have anyone smart to cautionary tale his ass.
Bill Maher is like a sort of slo-mo version of Dennis Miller who killed his career and turned into (or revealed his true inner self) a right wing douchelord almost overnight after 9/11. It's almost an excuse.
Maher's "traumatizing event" appears to be a decade of learning that you can't hide your misogyny and bad takes inside ever more snide comedy.
Even successful conservative comedians like Tim Allen and Larry the Cable Guy succeed by avoiding conservative ideas in their comedy. The art has always relied on punching up. Sure you can make a few assholes laugh at racist jokes in a club but it never scales. Punching down is radioactive to successful comedy.
And the rare times it works are self effacing (you might be a redneck). Maher isn't conservative- but he's rapidly becoming a living embodiment of the otherwise imaginary "coastal liberal elite" and apparently doesn't have anyone smart to cautionary tale his ass.
Now, to start off, I'm not going to assume that your question was anything more than ignorance. But I'll try to help explain why people would understandably be angry at it.
Part of the issue is that your question is that it's very similar to how sexual harassment and abuse is hidden and defended against. Sexual harassment going along the lines of normal social behaviour. People abuse their own normal social relationships or positions of power to put victims into positions where it's difficult for them to act, and then hide behind that veneer of normal social relations to defend themselves.
There are contexts where it's okay to say that someone looks pretty and it's totally acceptable - like if a friend is being self-disparaging and you want them to appreciate themselves - but when you're specifically dealing with unsolicited comments in contexts where you know that it isn't appropriate, then conflating it with the context of normal and appropriate behaviour is providing the smokescreen that the harassment hides behind.
Another part of it, and probably the bigger one, is the shifting focus. Harassment issues should focus on the people being harassed and tend to their needs first. Comments like that shift the focus to the harasser and their rights instead.
Maher, of course, is taking this one step further and shifting the focus to people who are completely unrelated to the issue.
Could you please explain how "cancel culture" is different from "wanting to punish people for doing bad things"?
This is like how Trump came up with the "deep state" label for the legal system impeding his grift.
Maybe not in a thread about an article whose content you now say is unrelated to you playing Devil's Advocate?
I think the historic lack of accountability and consequences is a much bigger issue, and there's an undeniable hypocrisy coming from those who wax poetic about "personal responsibility".
User banned (2 months): dismissing sexual assault over a series of posts
Did Al Franken deserve his fate a couple of years ago?
I will say he expressed a salient point about people growing up in the modern more enlightened culture judging people raised in a less enlightened culture of years ago.
Can you say if you were the same age as Chris Matthews, or Bill Maher himself, you yourself would not have to look back on behaviors and attitudes in your own earlier life with something other than pious judgmental confidence?
As we enlighten ourselves above the dark ages of simple, threatening religion myths to inform our ethical and moral states, we are forgetting the healing power and community force of forgiveness. This is how we are divided and conquered.
Evil will always win, because Good is dumb.
Can you say if you were the same age as Chris Matthews, or Bill Maher himself, you yourself would not have to look back on behaviors and attitudes in your own earlier life with something other than pious judgmental confidence?
As we enlighten ourselves above the dark ages of simple, threatening religion myths to inform our ethical and moral states, we are forgetting the healing power and community force of forgiveness. This is how we are divided and conquered.
Evil will always win, because Good is dumb.
You said "Cancel culture got him [Matthews] fired."
https://www.resetera.com/threads/bi...xual-harassment-accuser.173836/#post-29698234
Why are you talking about Al Franken? Why is it "cancel culture" and not appropriate disciplinary action for sexually harassing his staff?
You're very welcome!
Now just don't go whining about cancel culture the next time someone gets criticized for the nine millionth time they did something awful with no sign of remorse or desire to change like the other gentleman in this thread. That would be a lot harder for me to take as a simple error in judgement.
You started this by saying your playing 'devils advocate'. Are you still doing that or are you genuinely asking? If you wanted a sincere answer, starting it off by saying 'just to play devils advocate' isn't going to get you the answer you want. People are just going to think your trolling especially when this is a thread about sexual harassment. To answer the question, it depends on the time and place. There is no definitive time and place and situation anyone could give you so asking for one is pointless.
You're gonna get clipped for dismissing concerns about sexual harassment and you're gonna spend at least a month not understanding why.
And that is hilarious.
And that is hilarious.
I might just be less progressive than you maybe. I sure feel old.
I don't think forgiving someone for sexual harassment is dismissing it. But I'll take the b if I gotta
Different people are going to have different opinions, that is subjective. He took a picture of himself pretending to grope a woman who was asleep, among other things, I'd say of course.
How about this, why don't you list out all the people who you feel were unjustly "cancelled" and put that list against people who deserved the backlash, and see which one is bigger.
I mean, Maher has defended pedophiles and rapists in the past, so this isn't surprising. The guy is actual trash.
Cancel Culture is a bullshit alt-right talking point.
But allies fuck up, or have fucked up before. If the cost of every fuck up is to terminate the alliance, your allies become scarce.
Chris Matthews came up with some of the best Trump criticisms I watched on MSNBC.
But allies fuck up, or have fucked up before. If the cost of every fuck up is to terminate the alliance, your allies become scarce.
Chris Matthews came up with some of the best Trump criticisms I watched on MSNBC.
at home to someone you have a personal relationship with and not a professional one.
Look, I have complimented people's appearance at work- sometimes through the lens of a joke - when they're dressed for a fancy night out or an award show- but only people who know my sense of humor or I have a close enough relationship with and mutual understanding of intent with - and never in a sexual, romantic or euphemistic way — the other day a colleague was interviewing for a promoted version of her existing job and had dressed up for it- I don't remember my exact phrasing but it would have been "you look really smart (as in elegant and professional) " - the intent is to compliment and acknowledge the unusual circumstance and imbue confidence.
It's possible to be yourself and still maintain a reasonable decorum that can be free of misinterpretation. It may be a joke to you but are you sure it's not embarrassing to the other person?
Matthews said repeatedly "I could fall in love with you " which may be a joke or ironic exaggeration but he's a senior officer in the company and joking about romantic intent is a really easy line to avoid crossing. I wouldn't put "beautiful " or "attractive " or anything beyond the professional rationale behind her outfit- and I wouldn't have said anything at all if we weren't mutually respectful of and very familiar with each other.
Matthews had a history of this stuff. And he's in a work environment where equality and respect are a part of their philosophical messaging let alone essential professional courtesies.
i would just like to say that the adding on of smart to any piece of clothing to mean dressier is the worst
Matthews had a settlement on a harassment case in 1999, and then had another incident that was brought up from 2016. This is nearly two decades later. He was also making jokes about things like getting date rape drugs in the interim.
I'm all for forgiveness, but you kind of have to demonstrate the desire to stop doing the bad thing for that happen.
I'm all for forgiveness, but you kind of have to demonstrate the desire to stop doing the bad thing for that happen.
Matthews got Matthews fired. How about people take responsibility for the things they say and do? What a novel concept
Maher (along with a guest on his show) is victim blaming someone who was sexually harassed multiple times. You might wanna rethink which hill you're willing to die on.
Sure. Maybe Matthews doesn't deserve it. I've watched him a lot but I haven't researched the incidents you mentioned.
Let me put it this way: with the effects of climate change, it's possible in the future that people will update ethical and moral standards to include our carbon footprint as a kind of offense. We could see revelation of past failings on all our parts in that moral context. If the internet itself consumers 25% of all energy in our electrical system, our very post count here could be used as a measure of our inequity and selfishness and destructiveness.
It's not easy or elementary to predict how the moral context of the future is going to change, or what footprints you will have left behind or how they will be judged in society at large. Some things are basic and elementary, yes. But many things are very grey, and subject to hindsight, as well.
Make a new thread man.. Make a new thread if you want to ask a question unrelated to the OP in any way. Don't enter a thread about sexual assault and decide this is the place 'play devils advocate'. Sometimes playing DA is inappropriate. It really is.
Did cancel culture get him fired? Or did his actions get him fired? If someone punches you in the face and you knock out their front teeth, did outrage culture do that? Or did the predictable consequences of their own actions do that?
There won't be anything wrong with judging us later on the information we have now that we chose not to act on. But, more importantly, it has very little to do with the situation we're actually talking about.
We're literally in a thread about Bill Maher defending a person who has had issues with sexual harassment over seventeen years and you're going "well putting that aside, he's got a point".
Seventeen years after he had already made a settlement due to sexual harassment accusations, Matthews was not in a context where he didn't know that they weren't appropriate.
My dude here's the thing: instead of typing up this weird Black Mirror plot idea, consider the fact that the things Matthews is being accused of (longstanding inappropriate jokes and compliments at work) have been a widely-recognized form of sexism since at least the advent of third-wave feminism in the 80s. It has long been known that this sort of thing is unacceptable, and he was still doing it as recently as 2016.
This isn't like a recent social change that was made up by zoomers last year, it's a long-recognized problem that he ignored.