Bill Gates call Warren's wealth tax too high; wouldn't directly answer who he'd vote for if it's Trump v Warren

[Deleted member 15440]

It matters in terms of how fair it is to take 99% of it away from him. To use this cash for public services, which I assume would be the point, the government would have to seize 99% of his stock in a company he founded, sell it on the open market, and use the proceedings to fund government services.

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or he could be required to place those shares into a government controlled sovereign wealth fund, with interest and dividends being paid out to citizens directly (as with the alaska permanent fund) or used to fund social programs. this has the added benefit of placing those shares and the board presence they grant under democratic control, allowing companies to be moved to act for the public good rather than private profit.

in either case removing this wealth and the subsequent vast political power it represents from the control of one individual is a laudable goal in and of itself.

 

[Deleted member 15440]

we need to stop thinking that being a billionaire is inherently evil.

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no

 

[Xaszatm]

How is it immoral? Microsoft could have failed and Bill Gates would be just a failed business man. Most businesses actually fail. If someone takes the risk to open a business, pay wages, set product/service goals, etc. And later the company blows up to a trillion dollar company and since the owner was a major shareholder he got boosted to billionaire status - I can't be mad at that. We can discuss about how much they should be taxed or what is fair-share but we need to stop thinking that being a billionaire is inherently evil.

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It's immoral when the CEO for Amazon makes billions exploiting laws while his own workers are worked nearly to death and have to fight tooth and nail for a proper minimum wage. Or when any of the vast multitude of billionaires does it. Or are you saying it's fair that billionaires can make that much money while it's own workers can't make enough to live while being exploited for all their worth?

 

[excelsiorlef]

I agree with Bill, there's a point where even for the very wealthy, it's too much.

Sorry, I don't believe that everyone should benefit from an individual's success regardless of the former's contribution (or lack thereof).

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So basically you find it more moral for people to suffer so the obscenely rich can avoid becoming merely extremely rich?

 

[gozu]

I feel like i'm missing something here

where is he getting this 100 billion number on a 3% tax? is he saying he has multiple trillions of dollars right now?

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He's saying 20 billion is ok, but somehow 3 billion is now $100B. It's a super asshole move, on so many levels, because you know BG knows fucking basic math.

He simply knows that if he says it straight, AKA: "$3B" on my $100 billion is too much! How could I ever live on a paltry $97 billions!!" he will sound like the greedy douchebag he is. So he lies and loses the reluctant respect I had for him.

If even BG says shit like this, then all the billionaires are going to vote Trump. As they are entitled to, TBH, as he has made them richer and will continue to do so.

They will also, NOT as they should, pour money into making people vote for a horrible con man that will ruin their lives. This is the real immoral part. The part where I lose all sympathy for them.

At least we're now seeing his true colors.

 

[Dan-o]

Aww, look. The kids are playing nice while the toddlers keep throwing their poop.

Elizabeth Warren
@ewarren
I'm always happy to meet with people, even if we have different views.
@BillGates, if we get the chance, I'd love to explain exactly how much you'd pay under my wealth tax. (I promise it's not $100 billion.)

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Bill Gates
@BillGates
You and the other candidates are having a really interesting conversation on how to solve some of the world's toughest problems like eliminating global poverty and avoiding a climate disaster (though those issues don't get talked about as much as they should).
I greatly respect your commitment to finding ways to address wealth inequality and poverty at home. While we may disagree about some of the ways to get there, we certainly agree we need a lot of smart people committed to finding the path forward.
I'm always willing to talk about creative solutions to these problems.

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[XaviConcept]

Probably posted already but come on, Bill, thats some bullshit

 

[Clefargle]

That's a valid discussion. I never commented on the tax itself, just the notion that Bill Gates or any other billionaire was paid $100 billion at the expense of others.

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that's the discussion we are having, as per the article

but MS was deffo subsidized by the US govt So you're wrong there too

 

[kambaybolongo]

Some people do. I literally saw someone say $100 billion tax is no big deal for Bill Gates.

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It's not!

 

[onadesertedisland]

That's not what I am saying. He was the founder of the Microsoft yes? He took the initial risk of the startup, correct? So when Microsoft prospers who should be the biggest benefactor of that?

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Risk? Read into the history of how Microsoft got started.

 

[Chaos Legion]

It's honestly stunning seeing useful idiots go to bat for people like Bill Gates when billionaires paid less than the working class in taxes in 2018. It's nuts.

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2018 official tax data hasn't been released...I assume we're talking about that click bait study that failed to mention that in the byline.

 

[Sunster]

That's not what I am saying. He was the founder of the Microsoft yes? He took the initial risk of the startup, correct? So when Microsoft prospers who should be the biggest benefactor of that?

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I'd like to remind you how much 1 billion is but I'm sure others have already talked about it ITT. he is by farrrrrrrrr the biggest benefactor. the point is that by how much of a difference in earnings does "taking a risk" or "having an idea" grant you between yourself and the people working 8-10 hours/day, year after year? is it infinite?

 

[Ralemont]

That's not what I am saying. He was the founder of the Microsoft yes? He took the initial risk of the startup, correct? So when Microsoft prospers who should be the biggest benefactor of that?

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He should get paid the most, sure. How much more should he get paid than others?

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Man, always disheartening to see so much rich-people-worship here. My country is in a major social crisis now because our constitution and government was made for them, and now we have incredible levels of inequality, injustice and poverty.

But Americans sure love their millionaire superstars like Bill Gates.

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Whoa whoa whoa there buddy. I think you mean billionaire superstars. He and his sycophants would be very offended to hear you imply he only has millions of dollars instead of the tens of billions he rightfully earned all by himself in a vacuum without any government assistance or labor outside of his own.

 

[Nesotenso]

no

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yes

 

[Richiek]

The rich worship is in full swing I see.

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Agreed. It's mind boggling that a progressive forum like Era would have posters stanning for billionaires to keep more of their money.

 

[Dream Machine]

Aww, look. The kids are playing nice while the toddlers keep throwing their poop.

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Bill Gates is saying literally nothing here. "Creative solutions" is just one of many euphemisms for "continue not paying taxes while making it look like we're addressing these systematic issues". It's like "access" when people talk about health care.

 

[Oticon]

It's immoral when the CEO for Amazon makes billions exploiting laws while his own workers are worked nearly to death and have to fight tooth and nail for a proper minimum wage. Or when any of the vast multitude of billionaires does it. Or are you saying it's fair that billionaires can make that much money while it's own workers can't make enough to live while being exploited for all their worth?

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Yes, I support a revamp in labor laws, an increase of minimum wage to $2X.XX or whatever the consensus livable wage is. I also believe that people that take risk in founding their companies should be able to reap the rewards if their company succeeds.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

 

[Gaia Lanzer]

Bill Gates could lose 90% of his wealth and it would have literally zero effect on his lifestyle. Billionaires do not need to exist and it's becoming increasingly immoral that society allows them to.

Warren's wealth tax is too low.

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In the 50s, wasn't it, like 91-92% or something. I don't think even Bernie's rate is that high. That was also the time many considered America's economy to be at its strongest.

Also, LOL at all those people stanning for billionaires. "If I was a billionaire, I'd think the same way"...

1. You aren't a billionaire.
2. You're never going to be a billionaire (especially the way things are NOW)
3. If by some fluke you become one, congrats, you will be just as HORRIBLE a human being like all the other 1%-ers! Hell, pat yourself on the back, 'cause you fucking ADMITTED IT!

 

[excelsiorlef]

Do you really think that 85 million is going to be poured into liberal prog though. Hell if these programs even become a reality in our life time.

Fuck the US government. I know people cape for some of these politicians but I don't trust any of them. Let him keep saving lives in Africa, that's way more important IMO

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Do you propose a Bill Gates Law where only Bill Gates isn't taxed or is your argument that because Bill Gates is a "cool" billionaire all billionaires should keep as much of their wealth as possible because that's better than government?

 

[Omegasquash]

Aww, look. The kids are playing nice while the toddlers keep throwing their poop.

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How the hell else can people feel like they're doing something? Not call people names and generalize on the internet? /s

I'd like to see the aftermath of a conversation between the two of them. Gates is a billionaire, but the Foundation is trying to to good work, which makes me think he's a reasonable person, or at least has a conscience. Instead of mean spirited comments born of generalization that's not entirely unwarranted (you don't make billions unless you make a few ruthless decisions, after all), what if like, he could be convinced otherwise?

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Aww, look. The kids are playing nice while the toddlers keep throwing their poop.

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Must be nice to spout some absolute fear mongering nonsense disguised as a joke and then immediately have politicians tripping over themselves asking to meet with you. Dan-o, you think you're making a good point here, but all you're really doing is providing an example of how much power billionaires actually have.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Why does everyone else that have mostly done nothing to earn his wealth deserve any significant part of it?

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So basically if you're poor you deserve it is what you're saying

 

[PMS341]

Agreed. It's mind boggling that a progressive forum like Era would have posters stanning for billionaires to keep more of their money.

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Temporarily Embarrassed Billionaires are a real thing, unfortunately.

 

[Xaszatm]

Yes, I support a revamp in labor laws, an increase of minimum wage to $2X.XX or whatever the consensus livable wage is. I also believe that people that take risk in founding their companies should be able to reap the rewards if their company succeeds.

These are not mutually exclusive ideas.

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Reaping the rewards is inherently immoral if the same company exploits its workers.

 

[EloKa]

He's saying 20 billion is ok, but somehow 3 billion is now $100B. It's a super asshole move, on so many levels, because you know BG knows fucking basic math.

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It has been pointed out already that the used quote in the OP / article is manipulated and not correct. Seems like everyone ignores that this is a false narrative.
Thats the reason why the other thread got closed because it also tried to frame the discussion in a wrong way by using the wrong quote.

Era is hating on a guy that demands to pay more taxes.

 

[Dan-o]

Bill Gates is saying literally nothing here. "Creative solutions" is just one of many euphemisms for "continue not paying taxes while making it look like we're addressing these systematic issues". It's like "access" when people talk about health care.

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sigh

He literally says in the interview that he has multiple ideas for ways he can and should be taxed more. It's all right there in the video in the OP. I'm not saying he's right, and I'm not "stanning" for the rich fuck... but let's not say "continue not paying taxes" when he's directly saying he would gladly pay more taxes.

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Agreed. It's mind boggling that a progressive forum like Era would have posters stanning for billionaires to keep more of their money.

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The conclusion you should probably be arriving at is that this is not a progressive forum. It's, at best, very liberal, and liberals are not necessarily progressive.

 

[Cream Stout]

watched a majority of the video last night, and regarding the way the he answered the trump/warren question, the way the host reacted and the audience, you could tell it was implied he'd vote for warren over trump. Or at least someone else over trump. That's the vibe I got.

Slayven i wanted to respond to the last thread but it got closed, but what makes you think bill gates would turn to white supremacy/is a white supremacist?

 

[lmcfigs]

No such thing as a good billionaire

 

[excelsiorlef]

Sorry, I don't believe that we're far off from the limit, probably approaching the max already.

I don't believe that everyone deserves anything that they earn aside from what's already being given.

I also don't agree that I'm close to getting your point about who deserves the wealth. I believe that if you're able to earn an obscene amount of money, then power to you.

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This is literally evil just sonyou know.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I can tell where Bill Gates is coming from. He doesn't trust the government with the finances they take from him when he thinks his private entity can do a better job providing for that world . He is giving away almost all his wealth anyway

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He's actually not giving away most of his wealth, he has more wealth now than when he started his philanthropy

like, anyone who thinks the gates foundation is a morally upright organization with a focus on global health needs to explain why it's not doing more to fight pharmaceutical patents, which are a huge reason why the third world can't afford necessary medicine

hint: it's because patent law is one of the biggest reasons gates was able to accrue so much wealth

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Yup, exactly. Add to that the millions he spent attacking unions and supporting school privatization here in the US. His philanthropy is done in such a way that it will generate more wealth for himself. This is by design, he's not doing the best thing for the causes he champions; rather, he is approaching those causes with methods that will make him more money, even if there are potentially better options that would not make money.

 

[Dan-o]

Dan-o, you think you're making a good point here, but all you're really doing is providing an example of how much power billionaires actually have.

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I never said he didn't have power as a billionaire. But hey, if Warren wants to sit down with Gates for a public talk, I'd watch it. What is there to lose? This isn't like the same as Ben Shapiro begging to debate AOC. The interviewer asked him if he'd talk with her, and he said he didn't think she was open minded to talk to someone as rich as him. Warren called his bluff (if it's a bluff), so... let's see it happen.

 

[Oticon]

Risk? Read into the history of how Microsoft got started.

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I just did, please provide sources maybe I am not understanding the issue.

I'd like to remind you how much 1 billion is but I'm sure others have already talked about it ITT. he is by farrrrrrrrr the biggest benefactor. the point is that by how much of a difference in earnings does "taking a risk" or "having an idea" grant you between yourself and the people working 8-10 hours/day, year after year? is it infinite?

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His wealth is coming from the performance of Microsoft. As Microsoft increases in value, so does his net worth. No one is handing him money. For a better understanding it's like if you bought a house in 2009 and now 10 years later that house has tripled in value. You haven't really earned anything but since the value of the house tripled, so did you net worth. This is the basic idea.

He should get paid the most, sure. How much more should he get paid than others?

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He's not getting paid unless you mean dividends since he is a stockholder of Microsoft. His earnings/wealth increases because the value of Microsoft increases.

 

[Deleted member 15440]

Bill Gates is saying literally nothing here. "Creative solutions" is just one of many euphemisms for "continue not paying taxes while making it look like we're addressing these systematic issues". It's like "access" when people talk about health care.

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"let's figure out how to address inequality (i.e. a small number of people controlling vastly more weath than most) without taking a lot of money away from the hyper rich (i.e. me)"

 

[Oticon]

Reaping the rewards is inherently immoral if the same company exploits its workers.

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Exploits workers? I thought Microsoft was one of the best tech companies to work for. Have any sources for that claim?

 

[jenya]

The rich worship is in full swing I see.

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But billionaires are honest hard working people just like us... 🥺

 

[Dan-o]

"let's figure out how to address inequality (i.e. a small number of people controlling vastly more weath than most) without taking a lot of money away from the hyper rich (i.e. me)"

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Except that he literally says in the interview that he's currently taxed about $10B and would welcome it being $20B. But sure. Make stuff up. Good look.

 

[Deleted member 50454]

He's not getting paid unless you mean dividends since he is a stockholder of Microsoft. His earnings/wealth increases because the value of Microsoft increases.

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Shares in a company should be distributed amongst the workforce. Thanks.

 

[gozu]

I agree with Bill, there's a point where even for the very wealthy, it's too much.

Sorry, I don't believe that everyone should benefit from an individual's success regardless of the former's contribution (or lack thereof).

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You don't understand what it's like to be a billionaire, and you are thus a victim of your own lack of experience in the matter, as are 99.999999% of people on earth

Please do yourself a huge favor and watch this:



In fact, anybody who has any sympathy for bill gates, watch that video to understand what being a billionaire is like.

And then, multiply it by 100 to get where Bill Gates is at.

If, after watching the whole thing, you can come back here and tell me with a straight face you still agree with Bill Gates, I will eat my hat faith in mankind.

 

[Deleted member 20630]

So basically if you're poor you deserve it is what you're saying

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The poster you're responding to literally already admitted that homeless people "earned" being homeless just like billionaires "earned" their billions. That's not an exaggeration.

Because he did not earn his wealth. No billionaire does. He amassed it by exploiting the labor of others and using the infrastructure that others paid for and built.

If you are seriously going to defend billionaires with the argument that they deserve their fortunes because they completely earned it all on their own by being more meritorious than others, you also have to look at the inverse: That your argument implies that people without money deserve to have less money because they have less merit. Is that the position you want to defend? That billionaires deserve their billions and that homeless people deserve to be homeless because they aren't as capable as billionaires?

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Not everyone can make a successful business and make bank, and well, that's too bad, not everyone is fit for certain things in life. But hey, saying they aren't doing their fair share just because they have more money than you is hilarious. They pay their taxes, it's your government that isn't using the taxes properly.

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They then stopped responding to that point. I reported them because that's a gross thing to believe and to say in response to someone asking "So does the inverse of your argument also hold true, that homeless people deserve to be homeless," but no action has come of it yet.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

Do you have numbers to back this claim? Even if they dodged 90% of their taxes, in overall absolute terms, they would still be contributing more than 90% of the population.

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Holy shit.......

 

[Mr Punished]

Never said that. Dude, how do you think a CEO is hired? It takes into account your education and experience. The Wal-Mart CEO you were bitching about literally worked his way up the ladder. Jesus.

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Whatever work good ol' Doug McMillon put into fucking Walmart comes nowhere near close enough to justify the disgraceful wage disparity between the average worker and himself.

Bill Gates' philanthropy work shouldn't even be required if countries had functioning fucking governments that worked for their citizens instead of helping corporations hoard an unceremonious amount of wealth for no fucking reason other than greed. The excuse that Bill Gates has a reason to be weary of government spending is a dead end argument when he can't even be bothered to entertain a possible hypothetical scenario of voting for a president that might actually help with more appropriate government spending.

Charity to Bill Gates is nothing but positive PR which also helps benefit his status. Dude's a slimeball, his net worth shouldn't even be legal, and it's a real shame that we exist in a world where we need to rely on the generosity of his ilk to help survive. In fact, it's really not generosity, but more a mutually beneficial transaction when it comes to billionaire charity. Fuck him.

 

[Oticon]

Shares in a company should be distributed amongst the workforce. Thanks.

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They usually are? Many tech companies provide stock options and RSUs to it's employees.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Some people do. I literally saw someone say $100 billion tax is no big deal for Bill Gates.

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He'd still have 6 billion fucking dollars

 

[Jexhius]

No one can "earn" a billion dollars, and Bill Gates of all people certainly didn't. Even if he had his real wealth and assets taxed at a 99% rate he'd still have over a billion dollars, which is a too much fucking money for any human being on Earth. The man is scum and I hope he continues to open his mouth and say shit like this because eventually more people might start to realise this.

 

[Thatguy]

How do these measures prevent 'the rich' from just liquifying and moving to another country? There must be a line for a lot of people that once crossed they will do exactly that, though it's probably different from person to person. I think it's safe to assume that if Gates was really faced with losing 100bn it would be worth the pain to move. Probably 50bn, 20bn, maybe even 5 or 2 or 1bn. Gates probably doesn't even have a number in mind presently but that number has to exist. Financial portfolios and strategies vary wildly especially for crazy rich people. If theres one thing they are widely good at, it's dodging taxes.

 

[Deleted member 36054]

How the hell else can people feel like they're doing something? Not call people names and generalize on the internet? /s

I'd like to see the aftermath of a conversation between the two of them. Gates is a billionaire, but the Foundation is trying to to good work, which makes me think he's a reasonable person, or at least has a conscience. Instead of mean spirited comments born of generalization that's not entirely unwarranted (you don't make billions unless you make a few ruthless decisions, after all), what if like, he could be convinced otherwise?

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Imagine that. Elizabeth Warren is more reasonable than 90% of Resetera. Man, I hope she wins.

 

[Semfry]

I also believe that people that take risk in founding their companies should be able to reap the rewards if their company succeeds.

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Okay so in this theoretical extreme 100 Billion tax scenario (which is the tiniest fraction of what's going to happen anyway) Bill Gates still has 6 Billion dollars, which is unfathomably more than 99% of the population, but sure he completely loses his "reward" in that situation.

 

[Oticon]

Whatever work good ol' Doug McMillon put into fucking Walmart comes nowhere near close enough to justify the disgraceful wage disparity between the average worker and himself.

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I agree wages should be higher for workers. This is more of a government problem than a company problem though.