Bill Gates call Warren's wealth tax too high; wouldn't directly answer who he'd vote for if it's Trump v Warren

[Sorel]

The issue billionaires have is that they feel government is inefficient with money. By handing over 90% of it they feel it's ultimately wasted as it churns through bureaucratic layers of nonsense. Capitalism after all is meant to break down inefficiencies and solve problems without the red tape. I don't blame him on that.

however at this point the human rights concerns and pure bigotry coming from Trump means it's not even a fucking question.

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It's not exclusive to billionaire though, everyone can feel the gov not doing its job efficiently. It's in no way a valid argument. Part of my taxes are used to pay bankers, assurance provider and other private corporation that are not working for my interest.

 

[Dan-o]

She got nothing wrong here.

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Nope. Watch the interview.

If you really think Gates was playing 4D chess with his comment, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Briareos]

He basically thought he would, and he was humbled in how hard it is to give money away a billion times, and is still trying his hardest.

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The tone of discussion in these anti-capitalist threads is pretty wearying, very know-it-all (though I suppose better than the how-to-adult themes we had six months ago). Complex problems like hunger, disease, homelessness, etc., can't be solved by just dumping billions of dollars into them, it takes significant time and political institution building to create the structures necessary to achieve good results without distorting economies, enabling corrupt regimes, etc. (the entire field of humanitarian assistance exists to study effectiveness of this). Tax reform itself is a hugely complicated issue with really hard to judge outcomes, especially as the complexity of the tax code increases and regulatory arbitrage is in effect. Even something as straightforward as capital gains ends up being more nuanced, although in general I think I still favor treating it as ordinary income.

Not hard to parse out Gates intentionality around "professionalism" either. Although I find it unfortunate that we do things like ask people who they would vote for, it's not just gauche but reinforces appeal to authority rather than an argument on the merits.

 

[BAD]

I understand that Bill Gates wants to leave almost all his wealth to causes he believes in, but I'm not sure if those should be instead of appropriate taxes.

 

[Deleted member 20630]

wasn't one of his goals to give away a lot of his money anyways....?

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If so, he's not doing a very good job of it. Maybe someone should help him give it away.

It's not exclusive to billionaire though, everyone can feel the gov not doing its job efficiently. It's in no way a valid argument. Part of my taxes are used to pay bankers, assurance provider and other private corporation that are not working for my interest.

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And the vast majority of billionaires' horded wealth is working for your interest?

 

[DrROBschiz]

It's not exclusive to billionaire though, everyone can feel the gov not doing its job efficiently. It's in no way a valid argument. Part of my taxes are used to pay bankers, assurance provider and other private corporation that are not working for my interest.

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Everyone complains about a dysfunctional government yet balk at the idea of actually fixing it

Maybe because the rich bad actors outnumber the good ones?

I'm sorry but the corruptive power and selfishness that insane wealth breeds doesnt surprise me one bit. He says in the interview that only about 10% of billionaires would be willing to pledge half their wealth to charity and thats with Bill Gates at the helm trying to sell this idea

If thats not a fucking sign that "hmm maybe my way isn't actually that much better than government" than I dont know what is

If government is bad or inefficient.. you get involved and try to fix it. This whole Billionaire lone wolf DIY "I can do it better" shit is naive as fuck

Not to mention you only live so long while building a stable and proper government could last generations.

 

[thecouncil]

If he gave away $100 billion and never made another cent in his life, he'd only have $7 billion left.

For anyone that wants to take all his money, I want you explain to me how this man could live the rest of his life on only $7 billion.

 

[EloKa]

Oh... the same thread is up again with the same manipulated quote as the locked one. Cool.

Maybe OP could add something that shows his real quote instead of the doctored one:

Do you want to engage with the actual discussion happening or...nah?

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You were the poster that kept yelling "FUCK! BILL! GATES!" 3 or 5 times in a single post, right? I don't think that we can have a reasonable discussion on that basis to be honest.

 

[Deleted member 20630]

If he gave away $100 billion and never made another cent in his life, he'd only have $7 billion left.

For anyone that wants to take all his money, I want you explain to me how this man could live the rest of his life on only $7 billion.

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You're right. You've defeated my racist communist money-shaming talking points. The plight of this man. Frankly, it's impressive he's able to make ends meet with only 107 billion dollars, let alone 7 billion.

Oh... the same thread is up again with the same manipulated quote as the locked one. Cool.

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Do you want to engage with the actual discussion happening or...nah? Because plenty of people have the full context and are discussing this matter knowing it. Some of us just don't believe that it actually makes things better.

 

[Top NHST Product]

So if the government is so shit at fixing problems as some are pointing to as behind a reason why this tax could be problematic and billionaires should be trusted more to spend their money on solving these issues, why bother voting? If you owe during tax season, why bother paying your own taxes instead of protesting by refusing and giving that money directly to Bill Gates since he knows how to better spend it?

 

[dabig2]

Nope. Watch the interview.

If you really think Gates was playing 4D chess with his comment, I don't know what to tell you.

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You keep telling me to watch the interview and I did, complete with audience laughter after some of his jokes and everything. I don't know what to tell your ass either and frankly I don't care.

 

[Dan-o]

Oh... the same thread is up again with the same manipulated quote as the locked one. Cool.

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Expect no substitutes!

Maybe OP could add something that shows his real quote instead of the doctored one:

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What, an accurate representation of the point being made?? Who needs that!

 

[Kill3r7]

Do any of you believe that there is a senator in Congress who doesn't owe a favor to at least one billionaire? And you expect them to pass a wealth tax?

 

[Denamitea]

Fuck him. How much god damn money do you need Bill

 

[travisbickle]

I've paid over $10 billion in taxes. I've paid more than anyone in taxes.

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Because you make all the fucking money! He's like some delusional king.

I'm guessing America's issue with the monarchy was their silly clothes and hats, not their God-like ego and obsession with keeping as much money from the productive capacity of society as they can, and believing they're entitled to it. The dude makes money from pretty much all credit card transactions made on the internet today.

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Oh... the same thread is up again with the same manipulated quote as the locked one. Cool.

Maybe OP could add something that shows his real quote instead of the doctored one:



You were the poster that kept yelling "FUCK! BILL! GATES!" 3 or 5 times in a single post, right? I don't think that we can have a reasonable discussion on that basis to be honest.

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Ahh yes, that's all I did. You're right. I posted nothing but fuck bill gates and nothing else around those words and gave no reason for why I might feel animosity towards a billionaire who was being vigorously defended. Your memory is spot on.

You know for someone deriding the OP for taking things out of context, being inaccurate, omitting facts, etc., you'd think you'd be better about not doing that yourself. Funny how that works.

 

[Clefargle]

But Gates is concerned about proposals like Elizabeth Warren's landmark wealth tax plan, which would assess a 3 percent tax on every dollar over $1 billion in net worth. He says that American innovation could be at "risk" if taxes get too high.

"I've paid over $10 billion in taxes. I've paid more than anyone in taxes. If I had to have paid $20 billion, it's fine. But when you say I should pay $100 billion, then I'm starting to do a little math about what I have left over," Gates said, eventually adding that he was "just kidding."

"I'd love for somebody to find a middle-ground approach," Gates said.

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This section makes Gates look either incompetent or Dishonest

if he is concerned with Warren's 3% wealth tax, but is fine with going from 10%-20% tax rate, that makes zero sense. Then his sheepish joke about a 99% tax is also irrelevant since nobody running in America suggested that.

if he's actually into "progressive taxation", then Warren shouldn't be scary at all since her plan is marginal and not very radical. If he doesn't like Warren's plan, that's fine, but don't pretend like it goes beyond reason. It sounds like he doesn't know what he's talking about or is intentionally misleading here.

 

[Dan-o]

You keep telling me to watch the interview and I did, complete with audience laughter after some of his jokes and everything. I don't know what to tell your ass either and frankly I don't care.

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So you maintain that his intent was to spread fear among the electorate in some kind of 4D chess on par with Trump?

Very rational. No way it's just a boomer making a bad joke, as he does a few times in the interview.

I'm continually amazed that people have such a hard time reading basic mannerisms and instead choose to assume the absolute worst intent when the evidence doesn't support it.

And to reiterate what I've said earlier... I say tax the fuck out of him. Billionaires owe it to the rest. But some of these takes are as nuclear as the modern power plants Gates is trying to get to replace "dirty" power.

This section makes Gates look either incompetent or Dishonest

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That section is intentionally out of sequence and misrepresentative of what the interviewer asked and how Gates responded.

 

[Zombegoast]

America First, am I right?

I get why some people may be resentful that his money is going to fight diseases in Africa rather than toward a single-payer health care system or student debt relief in the US. I won't fault people for advocating for their own self-interest. But let's not pretend that it is some moral travesty that the money is going to people who are in an even worse situation.

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I am sorry that your americans poors are worth more than indian poors.


That maybe a 99% tax on pure wealth might be a little eccessive?

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Are you two projecting now?

Are you going to pretend that donations can be used to pay little to no taxes?

 

[Deleted member 31817]

Because you make all the fucking money! He's like some delusional king.

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Yeah holy shit what a dumb argument

 

[Clefargle]

So you maintain that his intent was to spread fear among the electorate in some kind of 4D chess on par with Trump?

Very rational. No way it's just a boomer making a bad joke, as he does a few times in the interview.

I'm continually amazed that people have such a hard time reading basic mannerisms and instead choose to assume the absolute worst intent when the evidence doesn't support it.

And to reiterate what I've said earlier... I say tax the fuck out of him. Billionaires owe it to the rest. But some of these takes are as nuclear as the modern power plants Gates is trying to get to replace "dirty" power.

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imagine if we held billionaires to a higher standard for their remarks on monetary policy, what a nightmare. Poor Billionaire Gates, perpetually misunderstood by the poors he wants to help through non-governmental programs

 

[JealousKenny]

Thing is if you are a billionaire you just shouldn't give any numbers on how much you are willing to be taxed because whatever that number is it isn't enough for the most vocal opponents of capitalism. Just say "I can afford a higher tax rate and am willing to pay more contribute my fair share to society" the end. If someone had 5 billion and made the mistake of saying they would be willing to give away 99.6% of their money someone will do the math then make angry headlines about you feeling you should keep 20 million dollars while there are people clipping coupons to by milk, just how evil are you!

 

[chezzymann]

I'm not sure if I want all 100 billion of Bill Gates money going to US taxes considering how big our military budget is. Would be cool for it to go to directly to something a bit more productive and bypass all the bullshit in the US

 

[Dan-o]

imagine if we held billionaires to a higher standard for their remarks on monetary policy, what a nightmare. Poor Billionaire Gates, perpetually misunderstood by the poors he wants to help through non-governmental programs

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Hey I'm all for holding him to a higher standard.
But he's a socially awkward nerd, first are foremost. Y'all act like he's ever been good atthis kind of discussion.
I'm not excusing it, but context matters.

 

[Clefargle]

Hey I'm all for holding him to a higher standard.
But he's a socially awkward nerd, first are foremost. Y'all act like he's ever been good atthis kind of discussion.
I'm not excusing it, but context matters.

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Right well let's make sure that the context is provided for Mr. CEO Billionaire we wouldn't want to misconstrue his joke. Boy what a lovable billionaire I almost can relate to him except I don't have so much money that I can't even conceive of what to do with it all without making a shitty insensitive ignorant joke about how you wouldn't be able to survive without only a few measly billion bucks. Lol

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Thing is if you are a billionaire you just shouldn't give any numbers on how much you are willing to be taxed because whatever that number is it isn't enough for the most vocal opponents of capitalism. Just say "I can afford a higher tax rate and am willing to pay more contribute my fair share to society" the end. If someone had 5 billion and made the mistake of saying they would be willing to give away 99.6% of their money someone will do the math then make angry headlines about you feeling you should keep 20 million dollars while there are people clipping coupons to by milk, just how evil are you!

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I mean....do you have any actual argument as to why people would be wrong to feel animosity towards someone who could lose 99.6% of their money and still have 20 million dollars leftover while they clip coupons to buy milk, or are you just using this hypothetical to complain about the dirty poors never being satisfied?

Let's really explore this ire you have towards people upset over wealth hoarding ogres. It smacks of "these ingrates are never satisfied"

 

[ty_hot]

He obviously make it sound like he would lose all his money if that tax existed, when in fact it would just slow down his wealth growth and even if a disaster were to happen and he lost tons of money as soon as he had only a billion dollars that tax wouldn't apply for him anynore. Must be hard to be Bill Gates.

(not to say that such tax would fund government, meaning people would benefit from that and possibly buy more of Gates' products...)

 

[Clefargle]

Thing is if you are a billionaire you just shouldn't give any numbers on how much you are willing to be taxed because whatever that number is it isn't enough for the most vocal opponents of capitalism. Just say "I can afford a higher tax rate and am willing to pay more contribute my fair share to society" the end. If someone had 5 billion and made the mistake of saying they would be willing to give away 99.6% of their money someone will do the math then make angry headlines about you feeling you should keep 20 million dollars while there are people clipping coupons to by milk, just how evil are you!

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But the subject was Warren and her proposed tax rates are nowhere near 99.6%. This isn't about whatever scary fringe communist boogeymen think the tax rate should be, it's about Warren's wealth tax which is 3 fucking percent.

 

[Dan-o]

Right well let's make sure that the context is provided for Mr. CEO Billionaire we wouldn't want to misconstrue his joke. Boy what a lovable billionaire I almost can relate to him except I don't have so much money that I can't even conceive of what to do with it all without making a shitty insensitive ignorant joke about how you wouldn't be able to survive without only a few measly billion bucks. Lol

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Yeah that's exactly what I said.
nice straw man bullshit.

 

[Clefargle]

I'm not sure if I want all 100 billion of Bill Gates money going to US taxes considering how big our military budget is. Would be cool for it to go to directly to something a bit more productive and bypass all the bullshit in the US

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you do know our military budget was over 700 Billion this year right?

 

[Clefargle]

Yeah that's exactly what I said.
nice straw man bullshit.

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And here I thought you were the one that's supposedly so much better at sussing out obvious jokes than the rest of us

 

[Dan-o]

And here I thought you were the one that's supposedly so much better at sussing out obvious jokes than the rest of us

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Oh, that was a joke? What's the punchline?

 

[Semfry]

If billionaires should not exist? So there should be a cap where people stop being successful? Who should be in charge of this money once it exceeded cap? The government? Fuck that.

Imagine if that was a thing and you had someone like Trump and his team (who we will get another president like him sometime in the future of our life times) was in charge of that money? Hell no

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The whole point is that abominations like Trump (who literally gets propped up solely on having cash) are much less likely to exist when billionaires are gone.

 

[meowdi gras]

These billionaires set up their own charity foundations that they have total control over. Then they donate stocks to these foundations rather than actual money, thus avoiding capital gains tax. The foundations qualify for tax deductions.

Nevermind that Bill Gates has actually become significantly more wealthy since pledging to give his money away.
Nevermind that Bill is so very hesitant to be taxed fairly.
Nevermind the schools that were forced to close when their funding ceased.
Nevermind the enormous power billionaires wield using their charities to influence public policy.

They do some good...on their terms and with little consideration for anything affected outside of their pet projects.

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[Deleted member 20630]

I'm not sure if I want all 100 billion of Bill Gates money going to US taxes considering how big our military budget is. Would be cool for it to go to directly to something a bit more productive and bypass all the bullshit in the US

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Ok, this point keeps coming up so let's break it down.

16% of the US' budget is allocated for defense spending. It sounds like we both agree that that is too high, so there's nothing else to argue about that particular point.

The point you, and several others in this thread, are making is that if his money went to the government instead of philanthropic causes, some of that would go towards bombs and tanks and whatnot. We can't really know how much of his money would go towards that, but for the sake of argument let's say it'd be that same 16%.

If he were forced to pay this hyperbolic 100 billion dollars that he "joked" about, 16 billion would go towards the military.

84 billion dollars would be allocated to everything else.

Does anyone know how much Bill gates spends on actual philanthropy? What I mean by that is charitable giving that does not act as a form of investment. Because I'm fairly certain that that amount is less than 84 billion dollars.

Even with a less extreme tax AND accounting for what would end up allocated to defense spending, we would all still be better off if his massive fortune was being spent by the government instead of hoarded while only pennies on the dollar go to charitable causes.

This isn't even getting into the weeds of what I'd personally like to see: His fortune heavily taxed, and the majority leftover after taxes should be redistributed to the people.

 

[Pomerlaw]

Isn't he saving a truckload of taxes by putting his money in his charity?

Edit : beaten

 

[Scuffed]

If she gets in and he is concerned about losing all his wealth without being able to spend it on good things he has plenty of time between now and then to give most of it away. Problem solved!

 

[BossAttack]

You realize even compared to European countries, we technically have one of the most progressive tax systems in the world? If you want people to "pay their fair share," that means we're significantly going to have to start taxing the people who under our current system, pay nothing? Reason no candidate actually wants to address that? It's poison and thus it's easier to get millennials to scream "eat the rich" than "the necessary tax revenue is going to mean a comprehensive tax reform that will include the middle class!"

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This is a joke right?

 

[Bear]

People are mad that this man wants to pay more taxes, but doesn't want to give away all of his money?

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Have you ever been on off-topic before?

 

[Deleted member 20630]

Isn't he saving a truckload of taxes by putting his money in his foundation?

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Bingo. Billionaire philanthropy is a PR move.

 

[Clefargle]

Oh, that was a joke? What's the punchline?

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A billionaire being given this much latitude when being asked about something he should presumably be the most knowledgeable about is the joke

 

[Expy]

I agree with Bill, there's a point where even for the very wealthy, it's too much.

Sorry, I don't believe that everyone should benefit from an individual's success regardless of the former's contribution (or lack thereof).

 

[dabig2]

So you maintain that his intent was to spread fear among the electorate in some kind of 4D chess on par with Trump?

Very rational. No way it's just a boomer making a bad joke, as he does a few times in the interview.

I'm continually amazed that people have such a hard time reading basic mannerisms and instead choose to assume the absolute worst intent when the evidence doesn't support it.

And to reiterate what I've said earlier... I say tax the fuck out of him. Billionaires owe it to the rest. But some of these takes are as nuclear as the modern power plants Gates is trying to get to replace "dirty" power.

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Cry me a fucking river. Bill Gates has untold power. His "jokes" have more weight and reach and impact than almost anyone else on this planet, including politicians. So his hyperbole when put in context of the entire thing (showing Warren's approach as 'extreme' when it itself is a middle ground) is clearly not just being used for jokes but to frame the conversation around his hyperbole.

It's called figurative framing, and it's been used and abused to shape public discourse. And it's very much intentioned:

Figurative Framing: Shaping Public Discourse Through Metaphor, Hyperbole, and Irony http://metaphorlab.org/figurative-framing-shaping-public-discourse-through-metaphor-hyperbole-and-irony/ … via

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Paper itself is worth a read. Or you can continue as you are. Again, I don't particularly care what you do.

 

[AtomLung]

Imagine trying to take the moral high ground over someone has facilitated treatment for literally millions of people from deadly diseases.

 

[Pomerlaw]

I agree with Bill, there's a point where even for the very wealthy, it's too much.

Sorry, I don't believe that everyone should benefit from an individual's success regardless of the former's contribution (or lack thereof).

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Could we at least agree though that this point where it's too much is not even close to be reached right now?

Imagine trying to take the moral high ground over someone has facilitated treatment for literally millions of people from deadly diseases.

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There was a time when governments would take care of this with public funds, instead of depending on the variable good will of billionnaires and the private sector. That's one of the reason why we have a antibiotic crisis coming.

 

[Expy]

Could we at least agree though that this point where it's too much is not even close to be reached right now?

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No.

 

[Mac_Lane]

Billionaires should be taxed out of existence, they are a global nuisance on society.

 

[Dan-o]

A billionaire being given this much latitude when being asked about something he should presumably be the most knowledgeable about is the joke

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So the fact that he goes into detail about a bunch of ways he should be taxed (estate tax, hoarding wealth for 10+ years tax, capital tax equal to labor tax)... none of that matters because he made a dumb joke about losing 99% of his worth. Ok.

Cry me a fucking river. Bill Gates has untold power. His "jokes" have more weight and reach and impact than almost anyone else on this planet, including politicians. So his hyperbole when put in context of the entire thing (showing Warren's approach as 'extreme' when it itself is a middle ground) is clearly not just being used for jokes but to frame the conversation around his hyperbole.

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I see it entirely differently, not that you care of course. But I'll read the paper. I just think you're way off base with this. You're basically saying, because he has untold power, he's never allowed to make a dumb joke in a lighthearted interview about how much money he has. Noted.

 

[Ahhthe90s]

Gate's is big on personal philanthropy to solve symptoms. Like pretty much any billionaire he isn't good on anything that will undermine the basis of his wealth. The most important fact about Bill Gates is he is the world's second richest man, and has been first or second for many, many years.

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Really? Is that really the most important fact about Bill Gates? I mean, you could have referenced any one of his amazing initiatives benefiting humanity, but instead you focused and homed in on his money?

 

[Deleted member 20630]

I agree with Bill, there's a point where even for the very wealthy, it's too much.

Sorry, I don't believe that everyone should benefit from an individual's success regardless of the former's contribution (or lack thereof).

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But this individual's success is predicated upon the labor of countless others. Bill Gates isn't self-made. No billionaire is. Any given billionaire became a billionaire by exploiting labor.