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misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,714
Slovakia
wow wonder if the guys who made hatred, named their viking game "Ancestors: legacy", and a game about nazi germany "mongrels", are alt right.

I mean, Ancestors: Legacy isn't primary a viking game - there are 4 nations=campaigns (yeah, there are Viking, but besides them there are Anglo-Saxons, Germans and Slavs) and as someone from a Slavic country, I was pleasently suprised how Slavs are handled in this game because in most media from the West, Slavs are seen as either mafia members, prostitutes, "Russians", vampires or basically nations that didn't and don't matter at all.. so sorry that there is a game that gives some depth to the Slavs and shows their culture and history atleast in some realistic way and handles them well .. and besides, the game has non problematic elements that I know of

War Mongrels is a game where you play as (at first) two German deserters who are fightning on the Eastern front and that are joining the local forces to fight against the Nazi Germany after they witness their own army doing all sort of atrocities to innocent folk .. and the game shows many of the war crimes the Germans/Nazis did on the Eastern Front.. as the game descriptions says on their Steam page: ".. our heroes soon find their purpose in fighting back the expanding Nazi forces that entangled them in the international conflict in the first place... and as the goal of every hero is to save others and hopefully survive, our heroes strive to prevent the deaths of innocent people instead of getting away from the war as originally intended."..
Ok, how can you see this as problematic or alt-right? I'm talking/asking specifically about these games not about Hatred (or some views of the studio), of course
 

Psyborg

Member
Aug 6, 2018
1,738
I was under the impression the Ion Fury devs removed that bullshit and apologized. I guess I didn't know the rest of that story. Ugh.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
Fucking 90s neck beard edge lords. I'm so glad the glory days of 90s pc shooters are over. There were so many of these types of games, every new release trying to trump the others with more gore and political incorrectness.
This shit needs to die.

Do you honestly think the stuff games like CoD or Battlefield promote are better than this?
 

Choco Momonga

Member
May 24, 2018
353
I believe the game Ultrakill is published by the same company as Dusk, does anyone know if those devs are bigoted too? Do they have any sus associations? I want to buy the game but not if they're asses.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Do you honestly think the stuff games like CoD or Battlefield promote are better than this?
So glad we traded in edgelords for war crimes guys
Agreed.

Aliens, monsters, demons with lots of gore and action is way betterr than some weird propaganda fueled "NOT POLITICAL!!!!" game.

It sucks a lot of these assholes are attracted to them n but people shouldn't "give" them these games. The games deserve better than this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,686
Devil Halton's Trap
I believe the game Ultrakill is published by the same company as Dusk, does anyone know if those devs are bigoted too? Do they have any sus associations? I want to buy the game but not if they're asses.
AFAIK everyone working with New Blood is clean of that shit aside from Realms Deep association. But Oshry and co. need to do better about either disengaging with 3D Realms or pushing Schreiber towards better accountability and not caving to a vocal minority of alt-right chucklefucks. They're all in this big-tent situation and it's going to cause many problems so long as people like the head of Voidpoint and Sgt. Mark get to fail upwards.
 

Choco Momonga

Member
May 24, 2018
353
They're listed in the edit on the first post. They were promoting RWS yesterday, so take that as you will.
I didn't catch that, thank you for the reply.

AFAIK everyone working with New Blood is clean of that shit aside from Realms Deep association. But Oshry and co. need to do better about either disengaging with 3D Realms or pushing Schreiber towards better accountability and not caving to a vocal minority of alt-right chucklefucks. They're all in this big-tent situation and it's going to cause many problems so long as people like the head of Voidpoint and Sgt. Mark get to fail upwards.

Gotcha, that helps clear some stuff up.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
AFAIK everyone working with New Blood is clean of that shit aside from Realms Deep association. But Oshry and co. need to do better about either disengaging with 3D Realms or pushing Schreiber towards better accountability and not caving to a vocal minority of alt-right chucklefucks. They're all in this big-tent situation and it's going to cause many problems so long as people like the head of Voidpoint and Sgt. Mark get to fail upwards.
Clean is a strong word. Oshry and Dusk Dev were parroting the new Postal yesterday on Twitter. The sequel to the game that had Milo Yiannopoulos in it. Supporting RWS in any capacity is beyond gross.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,714
Slovakia

Yeah, I know.. still can count as West :D but my point was that the view of Slavs in the Western media (and definitely not just in the media) isn't really great and in fact, is pretty degrading so it was nice to see Slavs treated respectfully, even though it was only because it was made by another Slavs
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,989

Yeah, this is why he's one of the most damning ones there, I think. He's just a legitimate Nazi, and it's so well known that he is that people like me who haven't engaged with Brutal Doom still manage to hear of it.

Running With Scissors is also a fairly telling one, because psychopathic comedy has big a big part of Postal's identity. One of the things that Postal 2 was known for is that you can set someone on fire, urinate on them to put the flames out, then watch as they slowly die of their severe burns. This was before they started openly supporting stuff like Gamergate and Milo. You could argue that it's just the style of irreverant comedy that we'd expect from Internet humour in its day, but when you put it together with the folks from Brutal Doom or Hatred...
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,054
What fucking sucks is the games NightDive and New Blood make are a perfect match for 3D Realms' business model. And other than Devolver Digital, there aren't a ton of other publishers who would give these games the focus they deserve.

It also sucks that 3D Realms pretty much only deals in these retro-style FPSes, and the majority of the people I ever see making them seem to be bigoted shitheads, so they're in a lose-lose situation all around.
 
May 17, 2018
3,454
What fucking sucks is the games NightDive and New Blood make are a perfect match for 3D Realms' business model. And other than Devolver Digital, there aren't a ton of other publishers who would give these games the focus they deserve.

It also sucks that 3D Realms pretty much only deals in these retro-style FPSes, and the majority of the people I ever see making them seem to be bigoted shitheads, so they're in a lose-lose situation all around.

Yeah, I'm genuinely disappointed in New Blood. I only recently discovered them and they seemed on the level. Was about to buy their stuff on sale and some merch.

Scratch that.
 
Dec 4, 2018
533
Can we not throw people into the fire for just associating with bigots? Eg I don't think the devs at A Hat In Time endorse the views of anti-commulist Jon Jafari by keeping his voice in the game.

Let's condemn people for their actions not who they associate with.

"yeah but who they hang out with can be pretty telling" - I mean, I agree, when it's just a casual acquaintance. I wouldn't hang out with a guy who is a bigot. I might work with him though depending on the situation. If it's either work with him to get make what I want or not then yeah I'll begrudgingly take the former.

I just think we should be careful with how we deal with these situations. Every person we cast away is easy picking for the alt-right movement. If you actually care about pushing back against the alt-right you shouldn't be making it easy for them to recruit.

Edit: I think it would be best to let companies like NightDive know we are uncomfortable and push them to make a statement on this.

I completely disagree.

The silence or not having a clear stance on this topic is just as bad. It says a lot to be silent with all the recent events in the US. Also, the bolded part. ...No. No one is making people join the alt-right. The internet since it's beginnings has been making it easy for people to be connected with other people just like them....
 

Don Fluffles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,055
EDIT: Forgot to add stuff

War Mongrels is a game where you play as (at first) two German deserters who are fightning on the Eastern front and that are joining the local forces to fight against the Nazi Germany after they witness their own army doing all sort of atrocities to innocent folk .. and the game shows many of the war crimes the Germans/Nazis did on the Eastern Front.. as the game descriptions says on their Steam page: ".. our heroes soon find their purpose in fighting back the expanding Nazi forces that entangled them in the international conflict in the first place... and as the goal of every hero is to save others and hopefully survive, our heroes strive to prevent the deaths of innocent people instead of getting away from the war as originally intended."..
Ok, how can you see this as problematic or alt-right? I'm talking/asking specifically about these games not about Hatred (or some views of the studio), of course

Makes sense. The right-leaning stuff I've heard the devs are into is more anti-socialist, anti-Muslim/immigration stuff.

I conditionally agree with this kind of approach, as unfortunate and imperfect an approach as it may be, it is still probably the one that will be a net positive for the proper cause.

The thing is: the swarm of 'old school' fans, broadly speaking, and the developers who cater to them, are clearly dug in deeper than one would like to think. I mean, look, 3DR themselves initially listened to external counsel with regards to the homophobic content in their game, Ion Fury, and the transphobic content rampant on their forums and discords. They *initially* sought to do right by those they wronged, and for a scant day or two were held up by this website -- and others -- as a fucking gold standard for how to deal with these kinds of issues. They were then blindsided by one ugly truth: their fans, broadly speaking, the circles they run in, and the developers who actually, y'know, made the game, just aren't huge fans of any issue that can be placed under a banner of 'social justice.' It probably comes from a deep dislike of anyone who ever raised a question about game violence having an actual societal effect (at least, any good faith actors in that group) and then ballooned circa gamergate and now here we are. So, this is the long-winded way of saying: fuck 3D Realms. They are on my shit list.

Exactly what I thought. The best way to mitigate disasters like these is to nip them in the bud. Make sure to just prevent the devs from putting this shit in. I seriously hope 3D Realms and Voidpoint learned this. Better yet, keep making more games that have opposite messages in them.
 

Easy_D

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,275
So that's 3DRealms (They're based in Denmark nowadays) and THQ Nordic as two nordic publishers with zero issue assosciating themselves with neonazis, cool trend I say, as a Swede.
 

Parham

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
After Ion Fury, I'm done buying any games associated with 3D Realms until they demonstrate a meaningful change in how they conduct business.
 
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Deleted member 11976

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,585
Not saying it excuses them of anything but I've always wondered: did the devs of Ion Maiden (Voidpoint?) ever end up making that $10K donation they said they would?
 

CandySTX

Member
Mar 17, 2018
1,630
Scotland
It pisses me off so much that people keep giving these assholes a free ride.
Every time someone who seems like they might be an alright person in the FPS scene, they do some dumb shit like turning around and giving RWS and Postal a free ride. In fucking 2020! We're way past the point of "I was kind of edgy in the early 00s" as being a valid excuse.

If looking back on their games and not realising they were terrible wasn't enough, we're talking post GamerGate RWS. Anyone here remember that, for a while when they wren't actively working on making shitty expansion packs for Postal 2, they ran a GamerGate news site from the company home page?

The whole Realms Deep show has pretty much solidified that the majority of this scene is beyond help. The window of "not made by complete assholes" and "not AAA warcrime" shooters continues to narrow.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,127
UK
That's what is weird, it's half cool folks and half bad. Weaponising nostalgia brings it out.
 
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Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,047
3D Realms continuing to be shit, not thoroughly surprising. After Ion Fury it was obvious they lacked any moral spine and would rather continue to pander to, and lie with, bigots to line their pockets.
 

nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
So that's 3DRealms (They're based in Denmark nowadays) and THQ Nordic as two nordic publishers with zero issue assosciating themselves with neonazis, cool trend I say, as a Swede.

Damn, they're based in Aalborg, I didn't know that. I am not surprised that they gave into their alt-right fanbase and kept the transphobic and homophobic content in Ion Fury, Denmark is not a progressive country, like at all.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
With regards to Destructive Creations, something curious happened last month during devcom (the professional developer event that happens alongside gamescom, the spot once filled by GDC Europe).

Devcom was promoting a Developer Night party and live stream of a concert by the German metal band Caliban, with a motto of "developers against violence, anti-semitism, racism, facism, sexism and discrimination", presented by Destructive Creations, the developers of Hatred. Following social media criticism, I believe the show was cancelled however?
 

nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
With regards to Destructive Creations, something curious happened last month during devcom (the professional developer event that happens alongside gamescom, the spot once filled by GDC Europe).

Devcom was promoting a Developer Night party and live stream of a concert by the German metal band Caliban, with a motto of "developers against violence, anti-semitism, racism, facism, sexism and discrimination", presented by Destructive Creations, the developers of Hatred. Following social media criticism, I believe the show was cancelled however?

Interesting, can you point to any posts that talks about this? It sounds like a very bizarre pairing.

m2d7BLe.png
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
Sure, this is the tweet announcing it:


And here are three (German only, however) tweets about the feedback and decision to not go ahead with it:



Maybe they thought that announcing a game about fighting nazis in World War 2 was a good fit, and did not properly look into their past history or so?
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,020
www.resetera.com

3DRealms announces Graven, an action adventure FPS and spiritual successor to Hexen II (Coming to All Platforms)

Coming to the Switch. https://nintendoeverything.com/dark-fantasy-action-adventure-fps-graven-announced-for-switch-spiritual-successor-to-hexon-2/
The number of people jumping in ignoring the conversation just to say they are buying the game is gross.

Tweet doesn't work.
 

Ganado

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,176
So that's 3DRealms (They're based in Denmark nowadays) and THQ Nordic as two nordic publishers with zero issue assosciating themselves with neonazis, cool trend I say, as a Swede.
THQ Nordic is an Austrian publisher. Their parent company Embracer is Swedish.
 

CandySTX

Member
Mar 17, 2018
1,630
Scotland
www.vice.com

‘IS Defense’ Is Islamophobia: The Game

"Sorry, but I don't believe in positive intentions of most of these ‘refugees,'" the developer said.

Meanwhile at 3DRealms "Haha. These guys are a hoot!"

"I was accused, because I 'liked' the 'Polish Defence League' fanpage on Facebook, which is clearly anti-Islamic, not nationalist," Zielinski told me in an email. "These are two different things. Some of us have pretty right-wing political opinions, but it's all based on logical thinking, not on hate-fueled fanaticism. Including me. And I still don't get what in actual fuck is wrong about nationalism? People confuse and mix that term, making it equal to Nazisim, fascism, and chauvinism. There's nothing wrong about being patriotic and dedicated to take care of your people and culture."

The fact they made a Viking themed RTS called Ancestors is a big old dog whistle.
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,905
Germany
So sad that the retro shooter community is just full of asshats.

Not including RWS under that moniker though. They have always been assholes that make shit games.
 

CandySTX

Member
Mar 17, 2018
1,630
Scotland
White nationalist types like to fantasise about these old European civilisations.
Them having more than one doesn't excuse their previous statements and the dog whistle language that comes with talking about heritage and ancestry.

Maybe it was a poor choice of title? But there's more than enough smoke here to suspect a fire.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Oh so after Hatred, they released a game about killing muslims 'invading' Europe. You have to be kidding me.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
"It's not just Vikings" has to be the dumbest deflection yet. Look at the receipts about the people behind that game, every single one of them has Nazi ties. Every. Single. One.
 

Zampano

The Fallen
Dec 3, 2017
2,234
Sure, this is the tweet announcing it:


And here are three (German only, however) tweets about the feedback and decision to not go ahead with it:



Maybe they thought that announcing a game about fighting nazis in World War 2 was a good fit, and did not properly look into their past history or so?

Google translate of the tweets:


As a devcom team, diversity and an open society are very important to us, which we wanted to underline publicly with a concert against discrimination and racism with a great band. The concert's partner was a development studio, which is currently under discussion, which in some cases raises doubts about the event's important goal. In order not to harm our common concern of sending a clear signal against discrimination and racism, all partners have decided to broadcast a replacement program instead, which removes any doubts about our concern. We apologize for any irritation. As devcom, we stand for diversity, for safe environments and for peaceful coexistence.
Stephan
 

nillansan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,520
Denmark
Sure, this is the tweet announcing it:


And here are three (German only, however) tweets about the feedback and decision to not go ahead with it:



Maybe they thought that announcing a game about fighting nazis in World War 2 was a good fit, and did not properly look into their past history or so?


Thank you, much appreciated.