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Things are getting a little heated in here, so let's put an end to that now and get back on topic.
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Biden: "Vote for me but stay a Republican, because we need a Republican Party."
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
- Start date
"Hey Republicans who are disillusioned by Trump, remember that your senators and representatives are selling you out too and defending everything Trump does. I know I might not be the ideal candidate for you but together we can bring back normalcy (editor's note: blegh) and dignity back to DC.
If the Republicans get clobbered down the ticket it'll show them they need to start listening to you all and doing their sworn duty as representatives of the people of the USA"
This isn't hard.
Trump voters are not voting for Biden. Period.
Trump has a 90% approval rating among Republicans. Fuck them.
Keep chasing that nonexistent demographic while shitting on leftists. That will work well.
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More 'the fever will break if we just meet them in the middle'
That was was Bill Clinton did with his Presidency, he straight up co-opted Republican plans, programs, and ideology. What was the result? Despite an economic boom, complacent and disaffected Dems got rocked in the midterms by Republicans that had been conditioned to view Clinton as the Devil.
Republicans moved further to the right in response to Clinton meeting them in the middle and giving them what they wanted.
Barack Obama spent years trying to court Republicans and guess what happened.
Republicans moved further to the right.
And when Obama stood firm, what happened?
Republicans moved further to the right.
There is no 'placating' Republicans. Their ideology is not one that can be reasoned with because, if it's not incredibly clear right by now, Republicans don't value anything but personal power not Democracy, not America — Just power.
A recent poll has Donald Trump with higher approval within the Republican Party than Abraham Lincoln, and you think that you can unify with these people?
If you want a long rightward shift that results in the complete destruction of truth and democracy within the United States, sure. You can keep getting played for a fool.
If you actually value Democracy and a just society then I'm sorry but your only option is to fight, and commmunicate with the Republican Party along the one vector that they care about and understand : You need to crush them.
'Going high' is no longer an option.
If you don't wake up soon, you're going to end up with a Republican President even worse than Trump because THEY WILL NOT STOP eroding, education, information, norms, truth, respect for non whites, and the very mechanisms of a just society.
If you endorse a 'unifier' you, even if unintentionally and unknowingly, are ultimately endorsing facism. There's no reasonable arguememt to be made that facism isn't the logical end game of the Republican Party. Trump is not an abboration, he is a symptom. Being a unifier will result in a further rightward shift.
You're not peeling off more Republicans than you're losing from disaffecting Dems.
Clinton did what you're suggesting, she held back, and what happened? You can blame voter suppression/Russia all you want, but at the end of the day turnout did not keep pace with population growth.
Trump got nearly 50% of the vote
| 46.1% | 48.2% |
With Third Party votes likewise surging.
You want a candidate that will run on being 'notTrump' and a 'Unifier' but it's a pipe dream that will only endanger this chance to turn the country around. If you want systemic change you need to engage your base.
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If we need a two-party system, why should one of them be the Republicans anyway? Why not have them be the PSL and the other the DSA? Conservatism has had decades to prove itself and all we get is austerity leading to poverty and death, and capitalist expansion threatening the destruction of the planet
This. People around here can't see the long game. Yes, he's a shitty candidate, but he's also courting the least assholish Repubs out there (though there aren't many of those). Look at how famers are reacting to Trump and his idiotic tariffs. He says stuff like this and it softens them up to at least consider voting for him.
I'd say the Republican party deserves to go the way of the dodo. It doesn't mean there won't be other parties to take its place. Hell, the likeliest of chances is that the Democrat Party will be split in two and the Moderates will take the place of what old Republicans were, which isn't far off from what Moderates ARE, actually. You'd get people LIKE Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, very corporate, pro-lobbying Dems that lean more Conservative being joined by the non-Trumpist Republicans, and then a separate, more Progressive Dem party made up of more, well, progressive voices, as well as MORE younger people. The names of the parties might also change to the Democratic-Republican Party (Moderates and former Republicans) and Social-Democratic Party (Progressives).
The voting in the _democratic primary_ has has not even started yet.
It's pretty insane when you think about it. Something like 25-30% of the country identifies as Republicans, so Trump's approval numbers suggest that you're playing for what, 2-3% of all Americans who are Never Trump Republicans?
Meanwhile 40% of the country doesn't vote. Imagine the electoral advantage a Democrat could have if even a quarter of those non voters were induced to the polls.
If you were a republican after 8 years of hating Obama's guts, you would be saying the only way to win is be more moderate? Do you think they became more moderate after 8 years of hating Obama?
More evidence why Trump will likely win the Electoral College again. Barely any Republicans are going vote for Joe Biden. All this is going to suppress Democrat voting and left leaning independents from voting. The Democratic Party is full of losers who will chase approval of people who would never vote for them while they leave votes on the table and wonder why left leaning people and the youth and such low voting turnout.
I would say that too, personally it needs a good nuking.
I was just phrasing a better way to say what Biden did
The GOP is too far gone, it needs to be nuked. From orbit. Anyone want to resurrect the Bull Moose Party?
Also, the US needs to have multiple viable parties, not just the Democrats and the Republicans. The problem with the current system is that there's too much concentration of overly varying views in both parties, and all the super-wingnuts are relegated to other parties. (I mean for pete's sake Australia has a sane Greens party, and yet you guys have Jill Stien.) Sure, there will be factions in any party, but more parties is a good thing for political discourse.
But really, at the very least, you guys need preferential voting. First Past The Post needs to fucking go.
Also, the US needs to have multiple viable parties, not just the Democrats and the Republicans. The problem with the current system is that there's too much concentration of overly varying views in both parties, and all the super-wingnuts are relegated to other parties. (I mean for pete's sake Australia has a sane Greens party, and yet you guys have Jill Stien.) Sure, there will be factions in any party, but more parties is a good thing for political discourse.
But really, at the very least, you guys need preferential voting. First Past The Post needs to fucking go.
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BIden is so out of touch it's hard to imagine what stupid shit he will say next. And the Democrats are banking on people voting against Trump regardless of whom they run. That's a fucking risky as shit strategy. Run someone that is constantly doing stupid shit to kill any enthusiasm for voting and expecting people to go vote because the other guy is worse won't get the people that usually don't vote to go to the polls. These assholes pal around with one another and spit fire across the aisles in the media. Biden is Hillary part two, someone running that underestimates the opposition and thinks he has a foot already in the door at the White House. It's sad and frightening.
They think they deserve votes. It's a fundamental problem with the Democratic party. They believe that Democratic voters owe them their vote and all they need to do is appeal to the unicorn fence sitters.
Is the strategy "If I get the nomination democrats will vote for me anyway so better start wooing as many republicans as I can"?
100%. The DNC also talks mad shit about younger voters not voting and then wonders why when Biden is being prepped to be the default candidate.
It's one of those self formed realities where, they, as clearly virtuous, progressive, pragmatic, and wise as they are cannot conceive of a world in which someone would not vote for them, and if someone doesn't it's indicative of that persons defectiveness. It's also brought about by this feedback loop 'the Republicans are our of touch therefore I save the republic, I am in touch, I am the true society'.
And how could they, the antonym of wr(epublicans)ong be unworthy of your vote. You wouldn't want to vote against your own interests after all?
There's nothing wrong with this system(ic racism). The system is fine, the system is perfect. It's imperfections make it perfect and them knoble for (you are) serving within it. The problem isn't the(m) system. You (re the problem) just need to (do as your told) vote (for me, I deserve it).
Entitlement is one hell of a drug.
Ever since Reagan, Democrats have been chasing this phantom conservative voter that would totally vote for a Democrat over a Republican if only they prove to those voters they aren't crazy leftists for decades. They do this at the detriment of their own base because they arrogantly think they have no choice but to vote for them anyway. The counter argument to this strategy has always been "Why would a conservative voter vote for GOP-lite when they can get the real thing?"
That's already been said/tried by actual republicans. It failed. What else do you have?
What?? Have you not seen purple states? Or Joe Manchin? The idea that there isnt a democrat that can appeal to republicans is pure ignorance. It's fantasy to think abandoning swing voters can be made up for by pulling democratic voters out of nothing in purple and red areas.
Prepped by who? The nominee is decided by the voters.
Please don't start with this right rigged shit again.
What?
I'm not saying a sizable portion of Republicans are gonna cross over, but I'm saying if he wants to target them and talk about the consequences of a Democratic win he should do it to ya know, make a Democratic blowout seem like a good thing instead of portraying it as the dawn of a one party fascist state.
Splitting hairs between "a" and "the" is meaningless. "A" republican party is worse really because he's suggesting the country always needs a far right racist, xenophobic, corporate worshipping, every man for himself, murderous party. Which is a pretty damn bad argument too.
And before anyone tries to say the party isn't that bad, or that it's only become bad "recently" yea no, conservatives in this country have always been terrible human beings from my standpoint.
Name a time they haven't and I'll correct you on that.
If anything, I would love the Republican party to disappear and the democrats can finally take their place and a new actual left wing party becomes their opposition...then Democrats slowly shift right more and more, dragging the new party because "government works best in the middle!" and we're back at square one all over again most likely.
And before anyone tries to say the party isn't that bad, or that it's only become bad "recently" yea no, conservatives in this country have always been terrible human beings from my standpoint.
Name a time they haven't and I'll correct you on that.
If anything, I would love the Republican party to disappear and the democrats can finally take their place and a new actual left wing party becomes their opposition...then Democrats slowly shift right more and more, dragging the new party because "government works best in the middle!" and we're back at square one all over again most likely.
And what you offered as an example of that has been tried to no effect. So what's your next idea?
Nope. Democrats chasing mythical "sensible persuadable Republican voters" is a fool's errand. It didn't work for Clinton in '16 and it will lead to Trump getting reelected if they attempt it again in '20.
What's most tragic about this is Biden is literally all of the hyperbolic nonsense that was thrown at Hillary and is 100% true for him. Sure, she's a neoliberal centrist, but the remarks about "stamina" and "being there" and "engaging the voters" as remarks against her..they're all in Biden.
In a reasonable society, Biden would have buried himself in the polls in America by now. I feel he has so much weight behind him because people think he's the "safest" candidate to bring us back to normal. But then with remarks like this, we all have to remember "normal" was deeply dysfunctional. Becoming nostalgic for the Dubya era because we have a neonationalist in the White House is wanting the "normal" of illegal wars, torture, and war criminality to be the mode of operations. Isn't this the problem? The Republican party gets worse and worse, and thus we have a call back to normalcy, when they were merely less worse. Throw the can all the way back to Reagan, the most nostalgic of conservatism, and you find a racist man who successfully propagandized against the wellbeing of society by turning aid and support into "welfare queen" who just pillage the system.
Asking for normal for a political party that has never once been normal, even for a single day in the lives of at least three generations is a fucking remarkable assertion. It shows "Biden being Biden™", once again taking the most wrong take possible and running forward with it.
My parents were life long Republicans, they saw the writing on the wall after Trump got elected and switched parties... My parents are nearly Biden's age. There is no middle ground and my parents knew it watching all of the GOP bandy together under Trump's banner.
Anyone still in the Republican party is in the Trump party and they know it, accept it, and even want it. They aren't changing their minds for Biden.
Anyone still in the Republican party is in the Trump party and they know it, accept it, and even want it. They aren't changing their minds for Biden.
Most definitely. Lord knows we saw what telling the whole truth with "Deplorables" got us. And people here hated that too. Not really interested in what folks argue over here because in the end we will vote the right way anyway. But hes right to avoid what Hillary did. That kind of truth hurts unfortunately.
You're going to lose more voters by trading your base for this group. You'll get more of the moderates by running an emotionally engaging campaign.
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No one wants to hear this, but at some point we're going to have to give Trump voters/supporters a way out of Trump and let them off the hook. We're going to have to suck it up and offer "Trump supporter amnesty." As much as I want to fist fight Trump supporters and call every one of them a dipshit, you're never going to get someone to change their mind by telling them they're wrong/bad/do bad things. These people are going to exist in society after Trump is gone, and if society is going to function they have to buy into the same norms and mores as us. "Us vs. Them" can't continue indefinitely.
Saying "being a Republican isn't bad and we need Republicans" is factually wrong. But it allows people who voted Trump to say "the problem isn't me, the problem was Trump" and then vote for someone else. Screaming at them about how they're evil is just going to entrench their positions and make all of this worse. I don't like this, no one likes this, but what else is there? Being so harshly punitive to Germany after WWI might have felt good for the victors but certainly wasn't the right call long term.
Saying "being a Republican isn't bad and we need Republicans" is factually wrong. But it allows people who voted Trump to say "the problem isn't me, the problem was Trump" and then vote for someone else. Screaming at them about how they're evil is just going to entrench their positions and make all of this worse. I don't like this, no one likes this, but what else is there? Being so harshly punitive to Germany after WWI might have felt good for the victors but certainly wasn't the right call long term.
I mean... It's not like Germany didn't suffer for WWII as well. It just stuck that time.
It's not a perfect analogy but it's well-known enough to illustrate the point.
Trump brings up his son, Biden freaks out and starts doing pushups and has a heart attack on stage. Trump wins by default.
Yet he has consistently led the Democratic primary race. So...maybe he's actually in touch with what voters want? 🤔
