Not having to worry about student debt if you're unable to find a job out of college would be a huge help.
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Biden introduces policy to forgive student debt for low income and middle class people
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
I feel like it was less of an upending than an unmasking, but I understand where you're coming from. Still, people have to remember that government requires a lot more work to move the pendulum back toward good.
So it's basically useless. lol. Public universities should just be free to begin with.
Let's look at the erosion of abortion rights. Since Roe v Wade, and concurrently with it, conservatives have been chipping away at abortion rights and access with it being virtually inaccessible areas in the country. So a gradual change in a complete opposite direction will run about 50ish years give or take.
Destroying or building requires just putting the laws in place to do the things we want.... That's it. That's pretty much all you have to do.
Of course, said law-making requires having executive bodies do their jobs, but the answer to those obstacles isn't to come to the table with an incrementalist mindset, especially since we all know Republicans are fuckbois anyway. So demand the most that you can!
I want a Democratic party and a progressive body that's passionately willing to fight for the things they truly want instead of constantly going "Oh shucks, maybe in the next 20 years" every time we capitulate to the other side with half-measures and "well, that's the reality of things." Like... seriously, stop throwing a stick in your own bicycle spokes.
That's correct, but for this to mean anything...you need to have the majority of congress on your side. That has only happened rarely and briefly in recent times.
If not, then the legislative chamber will remain the cemetery for many of these great ideas.
Current IBR repayment periods are either 20 or 25 years depending on a few factors.
Of course, then you get whacked with the tax on the COD income at the end of the period, which is its own problem.
That's why we should probably make it a mission to continuously vote in midterms like we did the last time, and start engaging in local politics and organizations to bolster our own communities and presence, instead of always hinging the entire soul of the country on a four-year cycle that, in effect, was stolen the last time by bigoted-ass white conservatives in the Midwest.
Hey, thanks for doing your part in not contributing to toxicity. More of us can learn from this.
I understand what you want ,but at the same time the Executive Branch wields too much power as is. We really need to scale back what the Executive is capable of.
So many people are accusing of others of being unhappy because their loans wont be taken care of or other bullshit.
How about this? Biden is not President yet. This is not a bill drafted in Congress. Its a proposal so why should we give up and say its good enough for now like so many seem to have already done? We continue to push to make the proposal better so if it is President Biden and it does eventually come to a possible law we are making sure to not segregate people for school choice etc. Upto 30% of College Students go to a Private/For Profit School each year yet we are going to say they don't deserve the same level of assistance as everyone else who is suffering?
How about this? Biden is not President yet. This is not a bill drafted in Congress. Its a proposal so why should we give up and say its good enough for now like so many seem to have already done? We continue to push to make the proposal better so if it is President Biden and it does eventually come to a possible law we are making sure to not segregate people for school choice etc. Upto 30% of College Students go to a Private/For Profit School each year yet we are going to say they don't deserve the same level of assistance as everyone else who is suffering?
I mean it's cool and all but what if I want to go to med school? Why isn't he paying for that!?! And no medicare until 60??????? He wants me dead.
No better than the Republicans. Voting down ballot.
No better than the Republicans. Voting down ballot.
I think where its a contested debate is around what the term "gradual change" means? But to me that's the huge issue in of itself. It sounds good, it sounds like you're working towards a "big picture" and most of life in many areas teaches us things come gradually. Usually because you have to learn or study until you can do whatever it is you want to do. But it honestly seems like for as long as I was last in a Modern Studies class in school (politics class), America has been involved in this "incremental change" for the healthcare industry. Things are probably even worse now than they were 10-15 years ago. In terms of debt accruing and prices going mental for the most basic of healthcare.
As much as I sound negative about anything, I'll say Biden doing something, okay, that's good (although it seems his offering is worse than Hillary's from 4 years ago???). But to me, an outsider, it really looks like kicking the can down the road. Precisely because the country and the powers that be can afford to do much better and I think this idea of "incremental change" in America over a few key issues, notably education and health, has been the masterclass of stalling for generations.
You could still get $60,000 wiped if you go into a hospital setting that qualifies for public service forgiveness plus having the balance forgiven in ten years.
It's not "good enough," it's a start and it doesn't have to be the end. A lot of people seem not to understand that the work is ongoing.
The gradual change for healthcare is going as intended. While there are concessions, such as preexisting conditions, the big goal has been for many in politics who continue to get elected and reelected has been to increase the power of private healthcare providers and insure the business remains profitable since atleast the time of Reagan.
Ah damn, only for public undergrads. I would have been legit happy if this applied to grad school too.
Either way, if it helps some people then better than nothing.
Either way, if it helps some people then better than nothing.
Ah, so it is just pretty words and a big ol' fuck you to people who went the private route. I would have gone to a public university had the schools not been so impacted due to a lack of funding and/or so outrageously priced they might as well be private schools.
Edit: I should say I would be happy for it to help any number of people, but it's absolutely lame that it wouldn't cover everybody in low to middle income families attending ANY college.
You're right, I was mistaken. It also has to be 240 (for 20 yr) months of payments, and months of forbearance dont count towards the months (deferments do). Which could prove troublesome depending on your type of loan.
The only difference here is that its basically a Revised Revised PAYE that caps at 5%. Presumably with no tax at the end.
I have many issues with Biden, but expanding Medicare to those who want it via a public option and forgiving student loans for low and middle class would be amazing.
By going as intended are you suggesting to me positively or negatively? Because many of the articles you read about your healthcare industry from 2010 up to now, 2020, are hellish. Given we're going through a pandemic right now it's even scarier, irrespective of Trump saying shit online about how he'll pay for everything for anyone who needs it. That's not happening.
Your healthcare industry is going to look for the maximum profit possible out of the coronavirus outbreak
Kept at the Hospital on Coronavirus Fears, Now Facing Large Medical Bills (Published 2020)
Care was mandated by the government, but it’s not clear who has to pay.
Things like that are just absolute lunacy for anyone looking in.
And who gets hit the hardest?
The American healthcare system is only making COVID-19 worse
The patchwork of public and private care—and a lack of mandatory paid sick leave—makes the country more vulnerable.
www.popsci.com
Imagine my shock.
But hey
COVID-19 Causing Americans to Favor Universal Healthcare, Poll Finds - The New American
A new poll finds that the coronavirus is causing Americans increasingly to favor universal healthcare, but is government healthcare really better at combating the disease than free-market care? by Michael Tennant
www.thenewamerican.com
Maybe eventually people will force the politicians who keep ascending into power to give a shit. Biden offering LESS than Clinton did in 2016, if I've read that right, is absolutely embarrassing. Offering less than what was offered before can hardly be chalked up as "incremental change".
This is a very, very valid way to look at things. I get it. I'm 35 and I've been fucked really badly by the first recession, which caused me to take on a ton of debt. I think I may get through this one okay. But I know a lot of my friends who won't. This is unsustainable. We need to fight back and focus on local elections. We need to elect people locally who do what we want. Primary the fuck out of old establishment politicians. We have to fight for it.
And keep in mind the insane amount of money the Fed just... dumped into the market. They could have forgiven all loans for that temporary stock market bump. We need to stop settling for half measures.
Negatively, many citizens and politicians want things to go this way. Whether they are employees, shareholders, executives, sadists, etc. Many profit or depend on the way healthcare in the US work and want it to continue to be as profitable as possible. The suffering of others doesn't especially matter to them. They have spent a great deal of time, money, and energy politically to make sure they get all the small, gradual changes they need for that.By going as intended are you suggesting to me positively or negatively? Because many of the articles you read about your healthcare industry from 2010 up to now, 2020, are hellish. Given we're going through a pandemic right now it's even scarier, irrespective of Trump saying shit online about how he'll pay for everything for anyone who needs it. That's not happening.
Your healthcare industry is going to look for the maximum profit possible out of the coronavirus outbreak
Kept at the Hospital on Coronavirus Fears, Now Facing Large Medical Bills (Published 2020)
Care was mandated by the government, but it’s not clear who has to pay.www.nytimes.com
Things like that are just absolute lunacy for anyone looking in.
And who gets hit the hardest?
The American healthcare system is only making COVID-19 worse
The patchwork of public and private care—and a lack of mandatory paid sick leave—makes the country more vulnerable.
But hey
COVID-19 Causing Americans to Favor Universal Healthcare, Poll Finds - The New American
A new poll finds that the coronavirus is causing Americans increasingly to favor universal healthcare, but is government healthcare really better at combating the disease than free-market care? by Michael Tennant
Maybe eventually people will force the politicians who keep ascending into power to give a shit. Biden offering LESS than Clinton did in 2016, if I've read that right, is absolutely embarrassing. Offering less than what was offered before can hardly be chalked up as "incremental change".
People are aware that this builds upon his current student loan plan right? So while debt is completely forgone for people attending public schools and HBCUs, everyone else is getting their student loan payments capped under his plan. The point of his plan today is to make loan forgiveness more targeted towards people who are more likely to have a higher student loan burden compared to the average student. You can argue that this is foolish, that means testing is preferable but to say his plan is 'useless' and/or 'pretty words' is extremely shortsighted. Take a look at his plan:
More than halve payments on undergraduate federal student loans by simplifying and increasing the generosity of today's income-based repayment program. Under the Biden plan, individuals making $25,000 or less per year will not owe any payments on their undergraduate federal student loans and also won't accrue any interest on those loans. Everyone else will pay 5% of their discretionary income (income minus taxes and essential spending like housing and food) over $25,000 toward their loans. This plan will save millions of Americans thousands of dollars a year. After 20 years, the remainder of the loans for people who have responsibly made payments through the program will be 100% forgiven. Individuals with new and existing loans will all be automatically enrolled in the income-based repayment program, with the opportunity to opt out if they wish. In addition to relieving some of the burden of student debt, this will enable graduates to pursue careers in public service and other fields without high levels of compensation. Biden will also change the tax code so that debt forgiven through the income-based repayment plan won't be taxed.
Meanwhile Betsy DeVos is making it more difficult for students from for-profit universities to get their student loans discharged from fradulent institutions. But there's no difference between Biden and Trump, am i right?
That's the perfect word to describe some of the people alluded to, sadists. Probably better terminology for me to use rather than "masters" and "crumbs", given I've sorta just pieced together over the last while how that sounds.
Making money out of suffering is sadly the way it is for many that are filthy rich due to it. It's always been a lucrative industry profiteering off the misery, desperation or even death of others. In America that quite often tends to be, wait for it, minorities. But I don't need to tell anyone here that.
How does this change it if I am 5 years into PSLF? Does it just start knocking down 10k a year from my loan as I make payments? RIght now I'm at 10%, would it drop down to 5%?
It's not all rich people. You tell a guy in Macon, Georgia his insurance sales job is going away after putting in 20 years and he's going to panic and do whatever to make sure he can keep food on the table even if it means his neighbor blows their brains out after seeing their bill for cancer treatment. Same thing when you some company that's makes its money selling overpriced medical equipment scares a whole town with doomsday scenarios if they can't charge X hundred times the cost to manufacture and would have to do layoffs of the handful of employees they have employed domestically. There's a lot of warranted and unwarranted self-preservation instincts kicking in with working class people who want the medical industry to continue as it does in the US.
I don't think any answer ever begins with "all rich people....". As much as life has a way of showing how some of the worst people on this planet are rich, at the same time there is evidence not every single person with more wealth than someone needs in a single lifetime to live comfortably is always a piece of shit.
The self-preservation that kicks in for people in roles or communities in America that exploit healthcare doesn't have to be supported or enabled. That's always a very weak argument to keep the system in place, especially when other countries have shown you can transition away from inhumane healthcare and still support jobs/careers and opportunities.
Some people would maybe have to be OK with less money, or at least not fuck you money, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If someone is threatening to blow their brains out because they might earn 100k a year instead of 500k, empathy can be in short supply. Especially if the changes to the system in return help prolong the life of millions for longer and reduce suffering on massive scale.
If you want to talk about some jobs just completely disappearing, then okay, maybe that could happen. But if one of these hypothetical jobs only existed to prolong or exploit suffering, I mean, I guess that is the perfect time for the "greater good" argument if there ever was one.
"But how come it doesn't cover private colleges??"
Nothing will ever be good enough. That much is clear.
Boy, people are determined to hate anything Biden does, huh?
Good for him. This is proof that people's voices and influences can push a moderate candidate. He'll always be moderate, but these policies directly help people, even if you don't think they help *enough*. Which is valid, and continue to push! But also I want to give credit where credit is due.
Good for him. This is proof that people's voices and influences can push a moderate candidate. He'll always be moderate, but these policies directly help people, even if you don't think they help *enough*. Which is valid, and continue to push! But also I want to give credit where credit is due.
The Medicare at 60 is actually worse policy than the current, when you think for half a goddamn second about it. There's about 15 million people between the ages of 60 and 65. What will the for-profit insurers do when that multi-billion dollar wad of revenue evaporates? Jack up the rest of us who are still stuck with them, that's what.
Tearing things down is always easier than building something. Pretending it isn't doesn't help anyone. Trump was able to drastically screw up our green efforts by literally just firing a bunch of people in the EPA. Would building further infrastructure to help climate change be nearly as easy as merely saying a word and having dozens of employees go home jobless in an instant? Never.
We shouldn't equate these things as if they are the same.
I dont even mind if they don't like him ever. But to shit on any movement in the right direction because you aren't getting everything at once just makes you a bitter annoying person to be around. Go pout by yourself in a corner if you need to but this helps people and it IS a step in the right direction, I mean geez. Imagine just systematically decrying every bit of progressive movement... Ridiculous.
What I'm curious about is if these extra plans are also exlusive to only Undergraduate Loans, or if it also includes Graduate and Private Schools?
Throw on two years of free community college too! Plenty of vocational / technical courses a person can complete in two years and enter the workforce making good money. Everyone doesn't need a four year degree or more.
I still feel guilty when I see the debt modern students are saddled with. I graduated literally right before the cost of tuition and books skyrocketed for seemingly no reason. I will support any kind of policy of this nature.
I still feel guilty when I see the debt modern students are saddled with. I graduated literally right before the cost of tuition and books skyrocketed for seemingly no reason. I will support any kind of policy of this nature.
I went to a private undergrad university. It would be real nice to have my debt forgiven. Oh well. Thanks for nothing, Joe. :|
That's good. Just don't get why only people 60 years and up get Medicare? Like why not just everyone??? Fuckin wack.
I think it's pretty clear that getting rid of student debt period would be good enough.
I think he wants to make community college completely free. As it should be anyhow. Personally public colleges/community colleges/tech/vocational training should all be free.
This is actually one of the things that could probably be done by executive order.
Biden will probably want to hide behind congress though, seeing as he was one of the most key people who created the student loan crisis, and I doubt he's changed his mind about blaming people for their debt.
Not sure if youre saying so here, but thats already in his platform. Lol.
I'm making $85k off an asociates degree now. Degree depending of course, they're not worthless as many seem to think.
Maybe the ultimate goal is to just hope most Americans won't live to 60 lol. Between working conditions, stress, poverty and more, you never know, could be a winning tactic for the health industry.
The UK already keeps raising the retirement age for state pensions. Probably hoping some of our generations are literally working till we die. I'm not totally clued up on how pensions work in America, I've mostly heard it's a dog eat dog world and it's basically about how you've personally saved. Unsure if there is a state allowance at a certain age. But I don't doubt whatever you guys have for older people, it's somehow more inhumane than anyone else.