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Oct 25, 2017
1,071
(CNN)President Joe Biden grew visibly irritated Friday when questioned about the state of Afghanistan, where a formal withdrawal is nearly complete, and a major US air base was officially handed over even as US generals warn of a looming civil war.
"I want to talk about happy things," Biden said as a reporter asked a third question about the winding-down of America's longest war.
"I'm not going to answer any more questions about Afghanistan," Biden said later after detailing his drawdown plans, his hopes for the embattled civilian Afghan government and his view of US air support.


"Look, It's the Fourth of July," Biden said, gesturing with his hands in exasperation. "I'm concerned that you guys are asking me questions that I'll answer next week. This is a holiday weekend, I'm going to celebrate it. There's great things happening."

But Biden was loathe to discuss any of those worries on Friday, growing frustrated with reporters as they asked questions. He cited a growing economy, progress against Covid and the fact US troops are coming home after 20 years of war as reasons to celebrate -- even if the future of Afghanistan remains uncertain.
"We're bringing our troops home. All across America, people are going to ballgames and doing good things," he said.
Biden said "I'll answer all your negative questions -- not negative, legitimate questions" at a later date.
edition.cnn.com

Biden grows visibly frustrated with questions on Afghanistan: 'I want to talk about happy things' | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden grew visibly irritated Friday when questioned about the state of Afghanistan, where a formal withdrawal is nearly complete, and a major US air base was officially handed over even as US generals warn of a looming civil war.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,527
Ibis Island
"Greater things happening"

E5PYcZsWUAETFDu.jpg
 
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OP
OP
Poetic Injustice
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
As Afghan Forces Crumble, an Air of Unreality Grips the Capital

KABUL, Afghanistan — With his military crumbling, President Ashraf Ghani of Afghanistan fired a crucial part of his command structure and brought in a new one. He created a nebulous "supreme state council," announced months ago, that has hardly met. And as districts fall to the Taliban across the country, he has installed a giant picture of himself outside the airport's domestic terminal.
On Friday, U.S. officials announced the definitive closure of Bagram Air Base, the nerve center of 20 years of American military operations in Afghanistan, in the functional end of the American war here. As the last troops and equipment trickle out of Afghanistan, an atmosphere of unreality has settled over the government and Kabul, the capital.
Americans have not been a visible presence in the city for years, so the U.S. departure has not affected surface normality: Markets bustle and streets are jammed with homeward-bound civil servants by midafternoon. At night, the corner bakeries continue to be illuminated by a single bulb as vendors sell late into the evening.
But beneath the surface there is unease as the Taliban creep steadily toward Kabul.
"There's no hope for the future," said Zubair Ahmad, 23, who runs a grocery store on one of the Khair Khana neighborhood's main boulevards. "Afghans are leaving the country. I don't know whether I am going to be safe 10 minutes from now."

The government passport office has been jam-packed in recent days, filled with a jostling mob, even though visa options for Afghans are severely limited. Some of the humanitarian organizations on which the beleaguered citizenry depend said they would begin limiting the number of expatriate employees kept in the country, anticipating a worsening of the security climate.

"The environment is extremely tense," said Omar Zakhilwal, a former finance minister, noting what he called an atmosphere of "semi-panic" in the government.
"It's beyond a crisis," he said, adding: "The mismanagement has led us to where we are today."
The roots of the current breakdown within Mr. Ghani's administration are threefold, officials and security experts say: the delusion of security provided by the Americans, whose determination to leave was never fully believed by civilian or military leadership; the tactical disconnect between conventional Afghan forces and the more nimble guerrilla Taliban; and the reduction of the government to the person of Mr. Ghani himself and a handful of aides, foreign-educated, some with families safely abroad.

More than a quarter of the country's 421 districts have been seized by the insurgents since early May, in a sweeping campaign that has largely targeted Afghanistan's north and even seen some provincial capitals besieged by Taliban fighters.
In some places, government forces are surrendering without a fight, often because they have run out of ammunition and the government doesn't send more supplies or reinforcements.


Officials inside the government, along with those who have left it, describe an atmosphere of improvisation, a bureaucracy caught off guard despite weeks of warning signs — even before the latest advance, the Taliban were slowly picking off districts — and the absence of a coherent plan.

Midlevel officials in the presidential palace expressed concern that they hadn't been made aware of any plan to counter the Taliban amid their assault. Some officials insisted that there was a plan in place, though they couldn't articulate what it was. A Western diplomat who was not authorized to speak publicly said he had detected signs that a sort of strategy was finally being implemented: abandoning nonstrategic rural districts to better consolidate remaining troops in places of value to the government.

Public pronouncements are largely limited to ringing denunciations of the Taliban and vows to defeat them, with no hint as to how the government intends to do so. As a result, Afghanistan's citizens are in the dark, worried, and rapidly losing whatever confidence they may once have had in Mr. Ghani.

"There is no response. They don't have a counteroffensive strategy," said Mr. Asey, the former deputy defense minister. "Nobody knows what it is."



www.nytimes.com

As Afghan Forces Crumble, an Air of Unreality Grips the Capital (Published 2021)

With the Taliban advancing and U.S. troops leaving, President Ashraf Ghani and his aides have become increasingly insular, and Kabul is slipping into shock.
 
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b3llydrum

Member
Feb 21, 2018
4,147
Jesus, that article makes it sound like the country is falling apart. That sounds terrible.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,376
The Stussining
I mean to be honest did any American actually expect the Afghan government to survive once we started pulling out? We've been stuck there for 2 decades because if we left it all comes crumbling down.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
I understand the sentiment but he shouldn't be upset that their asking 'negative' questions. Sounds kinda Trumpy to me, tbh. "Please lets talk about the good things that I did, not something bad". Feels very off.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,620
A.k.a let's bury our heads in the sand so we dont have to address real issues. God Biden sucks.
 

zoabs

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 7, 2018
1,675
I might be wrong, but as tragic as it is, I feel as though the country will be better off without our military's involvement in the long run as long as we ACTUALLY gtfo and mind our business forever. Cuz as much as the Taliban sucks, they exist because we suck. And our military also REALLY sucks. Maybe my friends are outliers, but anecdotally speaking Afghanis HATE the US military and want them gone ASAP.


But knowing the US we'll probably keep doing shady shit in the area and this withdrawal will assuredly do more harm than good.
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
After 3 questions in a row on Afghanistan which were probably almost identical to each other. Id be feeling the ask me anything else too thing honestly.

Can call him out on it too but there is only so many ways to say we are leaving and its going to be a shit show without saying we are leaving and its going to be a shit show but its what everyone wants.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Might as well just be honest and say Afghanistan is a lost cause because the US fucked it up again. This has been routine since Vietnam so I don't know why it's so hard to answer the age old question. Dumb old man.
 

Nola

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,083
Might as well just be honest and say Afghanistan is a lost cause because the US fucked it up again. This has been routine since Vietnam so I don't know why it's so hard to answer the age old question. Dumb old man.
What exactly should America have done in Vietnam and Afghanistan my man?
 

Randam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Germany
This a complex situation and we made it worse and now we are leaving. To answer your question no this is not what a lot of Americans with a functioning brain wanted.
sure felt like (most of) Era wanted it.

Stories like "Even Taliban surprised by how fast they are conquering Afghanistan" might not be that popular.
something that unfortunatly was to expect..

No a vocal minority want the US to stay in Afghanistan indefinitely and they get a massive voice on most cable news channels.
to be honest, after what the Nato is leaving now, they should have.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,033
Might as well just be honest and say Afghanistan is a lost cause because the US fucked it up again. This has been routine since Vietnam so I don't know why it's so hard to answer the age old question. Dumb old man.

Eh, Afghanistan has been fucked since the Soviets invaded and the U.S. decided to pump money to religious fundamentalists to oppose them. Not that it was some unified country though prior to the Soviets, but it was developing quite nicely and far more secular.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
UmeĂĄ, Sweden
Daaaw, poor widdle American pwesident. Maybe some drone strikes on unsuspecting families to further the American imperial agenda will cheer him up.

Fuck you...
 

Solace

Dog's Best Friend
Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,919
Poor Afghan people. The country will get destroyed in a few months, and the Taliban will take control of everything, stronger than ever while motherfucking Bush et.al are walking the earth freely.
Fuck, this world is getting more depressing by the day.
 
OP
OP
Poetic Injustice
Oct 25, 2017
1,071
Europe should prepare for an influx of refugees.

HADID: But Afghans are fleeing Kabul - or at least they're trying to. Some end up in the basement office of property dealer Zabihullah Jahani (ph) just off a busy street. He says there's been a rush of customers desperate to rent out their homes or sell them. He spoke to NPR producer Khwaga Ghani in Kabul.


ZABIHULLAH JAHANI: (Through interpreter) They need the cash to get visas to Turkey, to Tajikistan and Uzbekistan.


HADID: He says the rush began last year, but people have become more desperate in recent weeks as the Taliban have surged through the country, doubling the number of districts they hold.


JAHANI: (Through interpreter) People keep repeating, the Taliban are coming, the Taliban are coming.


HADID: People like Hadis Rami (ph). She's a single mother.


HADIS RAMI: (Through interpreter) I'm an independent woman. If the Taliban takes over, will they let me work? How will I provide for my daughter?


HADID: Rami does eyebrows for a living, and she's managed to save $300 to pay a smuggler. He's going to take her and her daughter to neighboring Iran. From there, she says a friend will help them sneak over the border into Turkey. There's a large Afghan diaspora over there, including friends she'll stay with.


RAMI: (Through interpreter) It's impossible to get to Turkey legally. You can buy a visa in the black market, but it's, like, $3,000. I'm using a smuggler because it's the cheapest way.


HADID: Cheaper but dangerous. A U.N. official warns that Afghan migrants are being kidnapped and held for ransom in Iran. For women and girls, there's the added risk of sexual assault and even rape. Rami believes she has no choice.


RAMI: (Through interpreter) Of course I'm worried, but I want a better future for me and my daughter.


HADID: Others, just teenagers, are planning to flee, like Mahbooba (ph). She's a volleyball player. NPR caught up with her after a game.


(GROANING)


HADID: She asked we don't use her family name because she doesn't want to be identified by authorities. She's 19, and she sees no future for herself in Afghanistan.


MAHBOOBA: (Through interpreter) When we heard that the Americans are leaving and the Taliban are coming, I became scared that I won't be able to continue my studies or play sports.


HADID: The Taliban say they'll allow women to study in segregated institutions. But in areas already under their rule, activists say girls struggle to study beyond grade six. As for sports, the Taliban don't allow women to play in public. So Mahbooba's found a people smuggler who'll take her and a fellow volleyball player into Turkey.


HEATHER BARR: You and I would be doing exactly the same thing if we were in their shoes.


HADID: Heather Barr has followed Afghanistan for years at Human Rights Watch.


BARR: There's a new, younger generation of Afghans that have different expectations for what they want the country to be like.


HADID: Barr says that's especially true for women like Mahbooba and Rami, who took advantage of the presence of foreign forces to fight for their right to study, work and play sports. It's not just urban women, though, or wealthy Afghans with property who are trying to leave. Tens of thousands of Afghans who work for the Americans are hoping to be let into the U.S. soon. Then there's Afghanistan's poor. Escalating conflict means many are already going hungry. They're even starving, as a severe drought grips parts of the country.


But Barr says America and its NATO allies bear much of the responsibility for the exodus because of their abrupt decision to withdraw from Afghanistan, which has emboldened the Taliban. She says they should expect Afghan refugees will try and make their way to Europe.

www.npr.org

As U.S. Troops Withdraw From Afghanistan, Afghans Are Also Looking For Exits

As U.S. and allied forces withdraw and the Taliban makes gains, Afghans are looking to flee and selling their cars and land for cash.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
What exactly should America have done in Vietnam and Afghanistan my man?

In Vietnam's case, probably not futilely blow a hole through Southeast Asia, both publicly and in secret, making countries like Laos the most bombed country in human history to the point people are still dying to those bombs even today.

That one is easy to answer.
 

nampad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,238
Then make happy decisions?

His reaction kind of reminds me of Trump. Heck, his full withdrawal decision is even worse than what Trump did in Afghanistan.

His foreign policy has been atrocious so far.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,828
What were they asking him? Isn't this was every American wanted?
Journalists can ask whatever they want, regardless of what is popular right now. Refusing to answer questions because you don't like the answer doesn't make him look like the leader of a nation, does it? More like a petulant child.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
This frustration is a common theme among political leaders across the west. They are trying to reject the reality of 21st-century political problems.

We see this with climate change, the financial system, inequality, and foreign policy.

For the past half a century, politics was mostly easy, and politicians today learned their craft during this time.
The usual course was to fulfill corporate wishlists and watch the economy grow and living standards improve and international conflicts resolve by sheer force of economic growth.

So now there are entire generations of political leaders whose skills don't include anything else than fulfilling corporate demands.

But now that we have pressing problems which are caused by the interests of BigFossil, the military-industrial complex, and the financial sector, the political craft of the past half a century completely collapses in on itself.

All these politicians know to do is asking their donors and big economic players for what they want. But their wants are now directly opposed to what society needs.
This is frustrating for political leaders, because what they spent their lives learning how to do, now turned out to be ineffective, even harmful.
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
America will forever be cleaning up W's mess

Yet somehow the American media paints him as the lovable goofy president you can have a beer with….
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
Want some happy stuff to talk about? Wipe out student loan debt, and I'll personally make sure to ask him nice things around holidays.
 

PanickyFool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
User Banned (Permanent): Xenophobia; Long History of Inflammatory Behavior Including a Severe Ban for Posting Racist Imagery
America will forever be cleaning up W's mess

Yet somehow the American media paints him as the lovable goofy president you can have a beer with….
I don't believe where Afghanistan is going can be blamed on W. It is more a return to is post Soviet invasion state as a fundamentalist country run by warlords.

The mass amount of murder on of the past 20 years certainly can be.
 
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shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
If you're looking to nail Biden on something, this simply ain't it. Public is pretty strongly anti-war wrt Afghanistan whereas the press seems to love banging that war drum, and Biden simply isn't interested in pretending to hang his head and play penitent over the decision to withdraw. It's done, over, the mistake in ever going is acknowledged, yes it sucks that we weren't able to force a stable democratic system nobody wanted, next issue please
 

slider

Member
Nov 10, 2020
2,717
The best I'm hoping for is a Somalia like situation with the Gov holding Kabul but everywhere else under Taliban (al-Shabaab) control.
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
Not sure what people were expecting, everyone has been clamoring about leaving Afghanistan when all research showed this would happen.
 

Culex

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,844
I spent over a year of my life there in the Army, good riddance. All our objectives were destroyed after 2010, and the continued occupation solved nothing.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
> Sets withdrawal deadline around July 4th

"Why are people asking me about this on July 4th?"

"Greater things happening"

E5PYcZsWUAETFDu.jpg
Is the implication here that people were actually organizing cookouts in July 2020? Not sure they thought this one through

What exactly should America have done in Vietnam and Afghanistan my man?
For Afghanistan, I'm sure not starting a second war 2 years later in Iraq would've helped