Biden asked if he would consider a Republican VP in a hypothetical unity ticket, says "I would, but I can't think of one"

[JABEE]

... you do realize how we got Gorsuch and Kavanaugh right? Not talking about how they got to be supreme court justices but how they were named to be nominated. Biden and his candidacy is being lead by good deal of Obama staff and some of his old Campaign staff, he must have gottten to know some of those people as his VP as well which means his legal counsel will be filled with democratic lawyers and advisors who in the end will likely put the names up for consideration. He isn't a god or even a king, something Trump continues to fail to realize. He is supported by a ton of people all who have a role and job to play, we will be fine.

Click to shrink...

Biden's ideology is outdated. His policies have failed. He is a bit a of a creep with enough baggage for Trump to screw with him in the same ways as he did with Hillary.

Now is not the time to go back to before Trump as if stuff wasn't awful before Trump arrived.

Obama's staff pulled from corporate board rooms does not make me feel confident about the future of our country.

 

[JABEE]

In the middle of a much more conservative time, Bill Clinton nominated Breyer and Ginsburg.

I realize you have to invent reasons to hate a guy despite actual plenty of policy reasons to oppose him, but there's zero reason or evidence to think Biden would put forth a right-leaning judge on the Court.

Click to shrink...

I assumed he would nominate a justice who reflects his values. Sorry if I am mistaken.

 

[Deleted member 43]

I assumed he would nominate a justice who reflects his values. Sorry if I am mistaken.

Click to shrink...

If you actually think Biden's values are Republican-lite, I don't know what to say. That's just factually and obviously wrong.

 

[JABEE]

If you actually think Biden's values are Republican-lite, I don't know what to say. That's just factually and obviously wrong.

Click to shrink...

I am confident in my assessment of Biden. He's a Third Way Democrat with some Dixiecrat racism sprinkled in.

 

[Stinkles]

Anyone who's claiming Biden is saying this as anything other than an olive branch to fence sitters or regretful Trump voters is cray.

He can't actually win an election by doing half the shit we'd like him to do and he absolutely can't win by saying the other side is evil and stupid, even if that happens to be demonstrably true this time.

 

[Deleted member 43]

I am confident in my assessment of Biden. He's a Third Way Democrat with some Dixiecrat racism sprinkled in.

Click to shrink...

I mean, you shouldn't be, and if you really are, it means there has clearly been some disconnect between whatever research you have done and reality.

Please, go ahead and list his Republican-lite and Dixiecrat values. This is obviously important to you, so I'm happy to spend some time and explore the topic together.

 

[JesseEwiak]

I assumed he would nominate a justice who reflects his values. Sorry if I am mistaken.

Click to shrink...

Joe Biden's values are not far out of the center-left mainstream, and has been for decades.

Now, I don't particularly like him, and wished he wouldn't ran, mostly because it would mean we might have a more interesting primary with more moderate votes up for grabs, but he's not a some right winger, and the fact people continue to push and believe this line shows just out of step with the median American that people on this forum are, as they continue to stay stuck in their Twitter and online echo chamber where their particular candidate has no baggage and will face no issues at all because they actually think the last primary was the worst it could've gotten.

In reality - all the front-runners and most of the medium-runners have baggage. If we want to nominate a candidate with no baggage, we should nominate Michael Bennett, I guess.

 

[Powdered Egg]

Biden should make Tim Scott his VP.

 

[Veliladon]

Bill Weld, Charlie Baker, Phil Scott, Olympia Snow, Christine Whitman.

Any of those would make a unity ticket.

Biden should make Tim Scott his VP.

Click to shrink...

Fuck no. A unity ticket needs a Rockefeller Republican not a nut job.

 

[danm999]

I'm going to assume he's joking and not seriously considering it.

 

[JABEE]

I mean, you shouldn't be, and if you really are, it means there has clearly been some disconnect between whatever research you have done and reality.

Please, go ahead and list his Republican-lite and Dixiecrat values. This is obviously important to you, so I'm happy to spend some time and explore the topic together.

Click to shrink...

Eulogizing Strom Thurmond, supporting anti-bussing movements and actively working to prevent integration. Voting for the Iraq War, Pro Wall Street, defending the Crime Bill as an important achievement and not as something he regrets.

Eulogizing the biggest, most famous Bigot in the senate as an American Patriot clearly represents his Dixiecrat Values.

Also, you appear to have way more posts in this thread than me.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Eulogizing Strom Thurmond, supporting anti-bussing movements and actively working to prevent integration. Voting for the Iraq War, Pro Wall Street, defending the Crime Bill as an important achievement and not as something he regrets.

Eulogizing the biggest, most famous Bigot in the senate as an American Patriot clearly represents his Dixiecrat Values.

Click to shrink...

...and yet, despite all that, if he won, with a Democratic Congress, based on his stated plans and policies, Biden would still be the most left-wing President since LBJ.

 

[BlackGoku03]

Anyone who's claiming Biden is saying this as anything other than an olive branch to fence sitters or regretful Trump voters is cray.

He can't actually win an election by doing half the shit we'd like him to do and he absolutely can't win by saying the other side is evil and stupid, even if that happens to be demonstrably true this time.

Click to shrink...

I agree.

 

[Boiled Goose]

You sense wrong.

My point is if Biden said what you wanted (All repubs are shit. I would never consider working with them. Don't vote for them) to republican voters, why would a single one give any thought to his words? They aren't going to see the "light". And republican voters no longer operate on facts. So what good would it do other than energize people on the left?

Again, if Biden said what you wanted him to say, I don't see a net benefit. In fact, I think it would cause more Republican voters to leave their house and vote for Trump again. I freely admit I could be wrong, but nothing you've said has convinced me otherwise.

Click to shrink...

So saying Republicans are ok will make them vote Democrat but saying Republicans are bad will make them vote Republican?

Don't buy it . Sorry.

Arguing with facts is the best chance you have at systematically convincing anyone.

 

[JABEE]

Anyone who's claiming Biden is saying this as anything other than an olive branch to fence sitters or regretful Trump voters is cray.

He can't actually win an election by doing half the shit we'd like him to do and he absolutely can't win by saying the other side is evil and stupid, even if that happens to be demonstrably true this time.

Click to shrink...

This is his thing. It's the lane he is running in. I don't believe he will nominate a Republican as VP. I think him signaling this is a bad play in 2020 and I think his lane is bad for the Country.

 

[defaltoption]

Again... if this guy wins the primary we're gonna lose the general

 

[Boiled Goose]

Anyone who's claiming Biden is saying this as anything other than an olive branch to fence sitters or regretful Trump voters is cray.

He can't actually win an election by doing half the shit we'd like him to do and he absolutely can't win by saying the other side is evil and stupid, even if that happens to be demonstrably true this time.

Click to shrink...

You can be precise and explain why the Republican platform sucks without insulting voters

Plus. This isn't Biden being smart. It's what he mostly believes

 

[Alligatorjandro]

If Biden wins the first thing he'll do is give each republican a kiss and neck rub.

 

[MPrice]

Don't see what the problem is lol.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Another bitch eating crackers thread, huh?

He's basically dunking on the GOP by saying there's nobody sane or decent enough to even consider.

 

[Chaos Legion]

Eulogizing Strom Thurmond, supporting anti-bussing movements and actively working to prevent integration. Voting for the Iraq War, Pro Wall Street, defending the Crime Bill as an important achievement and not as something he regrets.

Eulogizing the biggest, most famous Bigot in the senate as an American Patriot clearly represents his Dixiecrat Values.

Also, you appear to have way more posts in this thread than me.

Click to shrink...

Bernie was against busing.

I actually don't really care either way, Biden sucks for many reason, but this thread is not one of them.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

An old Democrat on a ticket could maybe have a Republican VP, so if Biden died, a Republican would be president and nominate more shitty judges.

I can see the, "I can't think of one," as a dig. But eh... no. Republicans shouldn't ever be considered on a Democratic ticket. No Republican would say that and they'd win an election anyway.

It's not the first time I've heard this. Democrats tripped over themselves to say Chuck Hagel would be considered for a VP nod in 2008.

 

[Boiled Goose]

...and yet, despite all that, if he won, with a Democratic Congress, based on his stated plans and policies, Biden would still be the most left-wing President since LBJ.

Click to shrink...

So people should shut up and be thankful? What's your point???
The important questions are whether Biden can actually win and whether he would be a good president .

Who are we compromising with??
Are we compromising with anti Democratic racists, who need to be defeated?
Or are we compromising with anti Democratic greedy donors, who shouldn't a megaphone at the table?

Why are we conceding so much ground by default??

 

[Deleted member 43]

Eulogizing Strom Thurmond, supporting anti-bussing movements and actively working to prevent integration. Voting for the Iraq War, Pro Wall Street, defending the Crime Bill as an important achievement and not as something he regrets.

Eulogizing the biggest, most famous Bigot in the senate as an American Patriot clearly represents his Dixiecrat Values.

Also, you appear to have way more posts in this thread than me.

Click to shrink...

Strom Thurmond was a racist who served in the Senate for way too long, and I certainly agree eulogizing him is unseemly. Biden really only knew him after Thurmond's public positions changed pretty dramatically, and his eulogy did not praise those previous positions or try to paper over those facts, but still.

The busing thing is also unseemly, but that is again a 40 year old position. I'm not sure what that says about his values now, though he does not like to admit he was wrong, which we see with the crime bill as well. The crime bill did have many elements that were good achievements, but the other negative impacts should not be ignored.

Iraq War vote sucks, but almost everyone voted for it, so I don't know how that was a Republican position. I don't know what "Pro Wall Street" means.

So essentially all of those things are perfectly valid reasons to note vote for Biden, or not want him to win the nomination. I agree with many of them, and he's not getting my vote in the primary either.

But unless you go back 40 years, you actually haven't presented anything that makes him particularly Republican, or gives any indication that today he would appoint a conservative Supreme Court judge. You just gave reasons why you don't support him.

 

[BlackGoku03]

So saying Republicans are ok will make them vote Democrat but saying Republicans are bad will make them vote Republican?

Don't buy it . Sorry.

Arguing with facts is the best chance you have at systematically convincing anyone.

Click to shrink...

Who is saying Republicans are ok? Need receipts. And if you think that saying "In regards to a unity ticket, I'd consider a Republican VP if there was anyone to consider" is the same as saying "Republicans are ok" is asinine.

I think the answer he gave will prevent pissing off republican voters, and doing so would cause them to leave the house and vote. As of now, I think there's enough of them that aren't willing to go out and vote again.

Biden isn't going to change their mind about Dems though. The only thing he can do is maybe swing fence sitters. And your suggestion seems too implausible to swing them over.

Look, I'm not even a Biden fan. I just think your suggestion would have the opposite effect even if the truth is said.

And I'll ignore the casual accusation of me "both siding" this.

 

[JesseEwiak]

So people should shut up and be thankful? What's your point???
The important questions are whether Biden can actually win and whether he would be a good president .

Who are we compromising with??
Are we compromising with anti Democratic racists, who need to be defeated?
Or are we compromising with anti Democratic greedy donors, who shouldn't a megaphone at the table?

Why are we conceding so much ground by default??

Click to shrink...

My point is that this forum has a blinkered and out of touch view of even the Democratic electorate, let alone the rest of the American electorate.

Who you're "compromising" with is the actual average Democratic voter, who isn't a 20-something activist on Twitter who thinks Obama is a war criminal because he used drones, but rather, a middle aged African American woman who likes her private insurance, doesn't think that the world is falling apart, and wants positive change, but also doesn't think we need a revolution. That's the horrible moderates you're compromising with, as opposed to the ghosts of racists and rich people who you think are pulling the strings.

Your actual enemy is the average Democrat - who is actually doing all right in the middle of a growing economy.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

Iraq War vote sucks, but almost everyone voted for it, so I don't know how that was a Republican position. I don't know what "Pro Wall Street" means.

Click to shrink...

Not almost everyone voted for it. Most Democrats in the House voted against it. In the Senate, a bunch of them were running or considered running for Senate, so they made a political vote in favor of it. Only 8 Republicans in both chambers voted against it. It's a Republican vote with a Republican president and Republican leadership supporting it, and the main faction that supported it in the Democratic Party was the conservative DLC.

"Almost everyone voted for it" is a weird way to brush off thousands of deaths and over a trillion dollars sunk into a war that left a power vacuum in the Middle East and factually wrong. If the Democrats had balls, they could have stopped it at the time. Instead like they normally do, they voted for it to win an election because they're scared of their own shadows and then lost the election anyway.

My point is that this forum has a blinkered and out of touch view of even the Democratic electorate, let alone the rest of the American electorate.

Who you're "compromising" with is the actual average Democratic voter, who isn't a 20-something activist on Twitter who thinks Obama is a war criminal because he used drones, but rather, a middle aged African American woman who likes her private insurance, doesn't think that the world is falling apart, and wants positive change, but also doesn't think we need a revolution. That's the horrible moderates you're compromising with, as opposed to the ghosts of racists and rich people who you think are pulling the strings.

Your actual enemy is the average Democrat - who is actually doing all right in the middle of a growing economy.

Click to shrink...

Only if we lower the bar as to what's all right.

 

[JABEE]

Strom Thurmond was a racist who served in the Senate for way too long, and I certainly agree eulogizing him is unseemly. Biden really only knew him after Thurmond's public positions changed pretty dramatically, and his eulogy did not praise those previous positions or try to paper over those facts, but still.

The busing thing is also unseemly, but that is again a 40 year old position. I'm not sure what that says about his values now, though he does not like to admit he was wrong, which we see with the crime bill as well. The crime bill did have many elements that were good achievements, but the other negative impacts should not be ignored.

Iraq War vote sucks, but almost everyone voted for it, so I don't know how that was a Republican position. I don't know what "Pro Wall Street" means.

So essentially all of those things are perfectly valid reasons to note vote for Biden, or not want him to win the nomination. I agree with many of them, and he's not getting my vote in the primary either.

But unless you go back 40 years, you actually haven't presented anything that makes him particularly Republican, or gives any indication that today he would appoint a conservative Supreme Court judge. You just gave reasons why you don't support him.

Click to shrink...

I think his ideological positioning and lane is in the Center. His strategy is to win over Republicans in the suburb by abandoning working class voters.

I don't know who he is nominating. My comment was made out of a frustration for the idea these calculations are smart plays when we are shifting rightward in this country every day. I think Biden's position on healthcare and his attack on Medicare For All is a Republican-lite argument. I think it's established I don't want Joe Biden to win and I think his positioning is bad for the future of progressivism in the United States.

 

[Foffy]

Clearly he said this as a way of "unification" to show he's a uniter.

Even so, fuck that noise. GOP need to be exposed and normalized as the literal radical political terrorists that they are, not this normal other side to the coin.

You do not unite with cancer. You remove it.

 

[Boiled Goose]

My point is that this forum has a blinkered and out of touch view of even the Democratic electorate, let alone the rest of the American electorate.

Who you're "compromising" with is the actual average Democratic voter, who isn't a 20-something activist on Twitter who thinks Obama is a war criminal because he used drones, but rather, a middle aged African American woman who likes her private insurance, doesn't think that the world is falling apart, and wants positive change, but also doesn't think we need a revolution. That's the horrible moderates you're compromising with, as opposed to the ghosts of racists and rich people who you think are pulling the strings.

Your actual enemy is the average Democrat - who is actually doing all right in the middle of a growing economy.

Click to shrink...

The biggest endorsement of Trump and Republicans I have read in a long time.

You're describing a comfy wealthy white straight cis male centrist. The "everything is kinda fine" person.

If anyone thinks that them individually doing fine is acceptable given the macro picture of what's actually happening in our country and abroad, then yes, them too must be politically defeated.

 

[Deleted member 43]

Not almost everyone voted for it. Most Democrats in the House voted against it. In the Senate, a bunch of them were running or considered running for Senate, so they made a political vote in favor of it. Only 8 Republicans in both chambers voted against it. It's a Republican vote with a Republican president and Republican leadership supporting it, and the main faction that supported it in the Democratic Party was the conservative DLC.

"Almost everyone voted for it" is a weird way to brush off thousands of deaths and over a trillion dollars sunk into a war that left a power vacuum in the Middle East and factually wrong. If the Democrats had balls, they could have stopped it at the time. Instead like they normally do, they voted for it to win an election because they're scared of their own shadows and then lost the election anyway.

Click to shrink...

Fair, I overstated the vote. My mistake.

And I'm in no way brushing it off. The Iraq War was obviously awful and a giant mistake, and not supporting Biden because of his vote there is perfectly reasonable. I just don't see it as a particularly Republican move on his part, which was the context of the conversation.

 

[Deleted member 43]

I think his ideological positioning and lane is in the Center. His strategy is to win over Republicans in the suburb by abandoning working class voters.

I don't know who he is nominating. My comment was made out of a frustration for the idea these calculations are smart plays when we are shifting rightward in this country every day. I think Biden's position on healthcare and his attack on Medicare For All is a Republican-lite argument. I think it's established I don't want Joe Biden to win and I think his positioning is bad for the future of progressivism in the United States.

Click to shrink...

So that's all reasonable. Like I said, I don't support him for much of the same reasons.

I just can never wrap my head around the idea that he's a racist, Republican monster. He's not. The policies he's supporting now are in no way Republican. He does not espouse hateful rhetoric. He has been fairly-forward thinking on a number of liberal causes. He was pretty regularly pulling Obama to the left.

Don't vote for him in the primary. But we have an actual racist monster in the White House, we don't have to paint everyone we disagree with with the same brush. We can just not want him to be President.

 

[Trigonometrize]

So in theory he'd like to unify, but Republicans make it impossible.

 

[SugarNoodles]

middle of the road moderate answer (so back down before declaring him a Republican). talk to me when he (or his camp) floats a actual name.

Click to shrink...

"Wait until something bad happens" before addressing it has been a really shitty game these past few years.

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

Fair, I overstated the vote. My mistake.

And I'm in no way brushing it off. The Iraq War was obviously awful and a giant mistake, and not supporting Biden because of his vote there is perfectly reasonable. I just don't see it as a particularly Republican move on his part, which was the context of the conversation.

Click to shrink...

I know what the context is. I'm arguing that it was a neoconservative war pushed by the Republican president. The entire Republican leadership was united and only 8 Republicans voted against it. It's a Republican neoconservative vote that -- it's poetry -- the centrist, reasonable, "electable" Democrats voted for, some out of fear of losing an election (and then lost anyway like Senator Cleland). It's a good thing that the DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) is dead and buried because their working with Republicans to vote for that war and to defeat anti-War Democrats in the 2004 primary was awful.

 

[Deleted member 43]

I know what the context is. I'm arguing that it was a neoconservative war pushed by the Republican president. The entire Republican leadership was united and only 8 Republicans voted against it. It's a Republican neoconservative vote that -- it's poetry -- the centrist, reasonable, "electable" Democrats voted for, some out of fear of losing an election (and then lost anyway like Senator Cleland). It's a good thing that the DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) is dead and buried because their working with Republicans to vote for that war and to defeat anti-War Democrats in the 2004 primary was awful.

Click to shrink...

That is true, and I understand if you think that's enough to label him a Republican. I just disagree.

 

[Stinkles]

You can be precise and explain why the Republican platform sucks without insulting voters

Plus. This isn't Biden being smart. It's what he mostly believes

Click to shrink...

I'd argue that for a lot of voters, like sports fans, you can't. The most milquetoast complaint about Patriots maybe not video taping stuff or sending their ball boy into the restroom leads to pages and pages of full throated defense of plainly illicit behavior. For a football team. Apply that psychology to sunk-cost fallacy voters who have put their economic and ethical fate in the hands of an obvious charlatan. A lot of people would rather stick their fingers in their ears than hear that they might just have possibly made a poor choice or been duped. It's a psychology that hucksters and charlatans have used for hundreds of years to keep milking credulous suckers. It's easy to keep them on board with a fraudulent scheme because the resistance to admitting a mistake is so tightly bound to their sense of self worth.

It is extremely risky to attack people's beliefs and choices on even trivial matters. Biden isn't necessarily playing any sort of chess here, and frankly I'd be hard pressed toi serparate some of his clever politicking from his non stop gaffes, but he will absolutely have a strategy for how his campaign tries to appeal to embarrassed Trump voters, because he needs them. And frankly I hope all of the candidates have a pragmatic and rational approach to the same problem, or we're screwed.

None of them can afford to harden or balkanize those fence sitters. It's not good enough that they don't vote Trump again, they need to come over the fence. Appealing to them - likely with a lot of "we were all suckered" historical revisionism is essential. And frankly that means a lot more intellectually disingenuous appeals to them. You should probably get ready for many, many more.

 

[SugarNoodles]

I'd argue that for a lot of voters, like sports fans, you can't. The most milquetoast complaint about Patriots maybe not video taping stuff or sending their ball boy into the restroom leads to pages and pages of full throated defense of plainly illicit behavior. For a football team. Apply that psychology to sunk-cost fallacy voters who have put their economic and ethical fate in the hands of an obvious charlatan. A lot of people would rather stick their fingers in their ears than hear that they might just have possibly made a poor choice or been duped. It's a psychology that hucksters and charlatans have used for hundreds of years to keep milking credulous suckers. It's easy to keep them on board with a fraudulent scheme because the resistance to admitting a mistake is so tightly bound to their sense of self worth.

It is extremely risky to attack people's beliefs and choices on even trivial matters. Biden isn't necessarily playing any sort of chess here, and frankly I'd be hard pressed toi serparate some of his clever politicking from his non stop gaffes, but he will absolutely have a strategy for how his campaign tries to appeal to embarrassed Trump voters, because he needs them. And frankly I hope all of the candidates have a pragmatic and rational approach to the same problem, or we're screwed.

None of them can afford to harden or balkanize those fence sitters. It's not good enough that they don't vote Trump again, they need to come over the fence. Appealing to them - likely with a lot of "we were all suckered" historical revisionism is essential. And frankly that means a lot more intellectually disingenuous appeals to them. You should probably get ready for many, many more.

Click to shrink...

What will it take for you to stop courting trump supporters? Like what do they need to do for you to look, like, *anywhere* else for votes?

 

[ThisThingIsUseful]

That is true, and I understand if you think that's enough to label him a Republican. I just disagree.

Click to shrink...

Just so I make sure because I feel like I'm getting mixed signals from your last two posts: do you feel it's not a Republican move to vote for the Iraq War (which I got from your post above mine)? Or do you feel that people are arguing that's enough to label him Republican-lite?

Because I don't think anyone would say it's just the Iraq War, and I think what some are arguing -- and I would -- is that I'd vote for him in the general (I vote straight Democratic in the general always), but we need to get away from his kind of mindset wholesale in the primary and do better. This isn't the first time we tried to be "centrist" and ended up not exciting anyone or losing considerable power or not making votes that long-term improved the country and fixed a broken system (which most agree health care is broken and the economy is rigged for the rich) that they could campaign on long-term.

Centrists in West Virginia, for example, want to support coal wholesale. Long-term, it would probably be wise to really push investing in new tech to open up new jobs considering the poor work conditions and health issues in the mines, but Republicans think long-term (judges especially) more than Democrats do, which is why people have an easier time defining Republicans than Democrats.

Biden is emblematic of that: he spent his life as a centrist and had a mixed record on abortion most of his career, and while he seems to me to have a good heart (his family tragedies deeply affected him, and his TAPS talk in 2012[?] is a beautiful speech to hear), and I'd be honored to meet him, but he's basically going from lifetime centrist to a centrist pretending he's more progressive than he is. And that hasn't helped the country or the party overall and hasn't helped to fix a system I think continues to go off the rails since the 1970s or 1980s (the Evangelical Right taking over a party and voodoo trickle-down economics embraced) when the system wasn't actually like that decades ago. And the system wasn't perfect before either, but the deep rigged economic system is worse than it's been in my short lifetime, and that's something centrist Democrats have done little to fix.

 

[JesseEwiak]

What will it take for you to stop courting trump supporters? Like what do they need to do for you to look, like, *anywhere* else for votes?

Click to shrink...

I mean, if you want me to be blunt, because all the polling of non-voters show that -

a.) The vast majority of them aren't waiting for some person to speak to them, but rather, the most of them simply don't care about politics and/or think all politicians, and yes, Bernie would count as a politician to them, are all the same. Ironically, I guarantee that Trump brought out more non-voters in 2016 than even a perfectly ran Bernie Sanders presidential campaign can, because there aren't that many voters who aren't voting because there wasn't somebody to the left enough.

b.) Again, actual polling of non-voters that lean Democratic show them not to be secret socialists, but rather a lot like Obama-to-Trump voters -> socially moderate to conservative, and economically liberal. So, if that's true, why not chase after the people who are voting anyway?

 

[Inuhanyou]

"literally being a republican is good strategy bros"

I feel like we arent too far away from the centrist position being like taking a bunch of lsd

People trying to sell unity between two parties are literally barking up the wrong tree. Its not a matter of gaining some small percentage of voters

 

[Deleted member 43]

Just so I make sure because I feel like I'm getting mixed signals from your last two posts: do you feel it's not a Republican move to vote for the Iraq War (which I got from your post above mine)? Or do you feel that people are arguing that's enough to label him Republican-lite?

Because I don't think anyone would say it's just the Iraq War, and I think what some are arguing -- and I would -- is that I'd vote for him in the general (I vote straight Democratic in the general always), but we need to get away from his kind of mindset wholesale in the primary and do better. This isn't the first time we tried to be "centrist" and ended up not exciting anyone or losing considerable power or not making votes that long-term improved the country and fixed a broken system (which most agree health care is broken and the economy is rigged for the rich) that they could campaign on long-term.

Centrists in West Virginia, for example, want to support coal wholesale. Long-term, it would probably be wise to really push investing in new tech to open up new jobs considering the poor work conditions and health issues in the mines, but Republicans think long-term (judges especially) more than Democrats do, which is why people have an easier time defining Republicans than Democrats.

Biden is emblematic of that: he spent his life as a centrist and had a mixed record on abortion most of his career, and while he seems to me to have a good heart (his family tragedies deeply affected him, and his TAPS talk in 2012[?] is a beautiful speech to hear), and I'd be honored to meet him, but he's basically going from lifetime centrist to a centrist pretending he's more progressive than he is. And that hasn't helped the country or the party overall and hasn't helped to fix a system I think continues to go off the rails since the 1970s or 1980s (the Evangelical Right taking over a party and voodoo trickle-down economics embraced) when the system wasn't actually like that decades ago. And the system wasn't perfect before either, but the deep rigged economic system is worse than it's been in my short lifetime, and that's something centrist Democrats have done little to fix.

Click to shrink...

Again, I don't disagree with any of this. And sorry if I wasn't clear, my point on the Iraq War was that I don't think that, even combined with the rest of his record, is enough to label him Republican-lite. He's a Democrat, always been a Democrat, and while his record is far from the most liberal, it's also far from Blue Dog status.

Don't vote for him in the primary. I'm not. But the hyperbole around him is just ridiculously unseemly, and it honestly disappoints me to see. I'm a liberal, and one of the most important parts of being a liberal to me is the ability to see grey, to not put everything in two buckets of "this is exactly what I want" and "THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER." That's just intellectually lazy. You don't want him to be President, fine. That doesn't mean he hates minorities and wants to stuff the SC with conservatives.

 

[Dream Machine]

"literally being a republican is good strategy bros"

I feel like we arent too far away from the centrist position being like taking a bunch of lsd

Click to shrink...

It's a combination of the ratchet effect and horseshoe theory. To get to the left, we must go right

 

[Stinkles]

The biggest endorsement of Trump and Republicans I have read in a long time.

You're describing a comfy wealthy white straight cis male centrist. The "everything is kinda fine" person.

If anyone thinks that them individually doing fine is acceptable given the macro picture of what's actually happening in our country and abroad, then yes, them too must be politically defeated.

Click to shrink...

I hope I'm isinterpreting your post, because If you think that this coming election can be a miraculous sea change in American politics and that pushing for controversial leftist policies will somehow succeed - or that if it doesn't happen this time, then don't worry we'll try again in 2024, then I really can't get past that level of naivety. It sounds almost like a deliberate attempt to undermine what needs to happen in 2020.

And if you think that Dem voting "white straight cis male centrists" are an enemy to be defeated, then you may as well pack it up as a strategy. It's OK to be mad about it, but if they don't vote Dem this time, regardless of who's on the ticket, then you may not get a next time. Look at the SC and the AG. If you think 2024 isn't hopelessly warped by this current administration and its absolutely laser focused madate to protect Trump at literally ANY cost then I'd politely and sincerely beg you to reconsider.

Your wish for truly moral, ethical, leftist and progressive candidates is one most of the folks on this forum agree with at some degree of intensity, but it's all for jack shit if Trump wins again. This isn't Bush or Reagan - a four or eight year blip before things swing back the other way - it's a pressing existential threat to free and fair elections, the rule of law and our security as an intrernational force, period. And don't get me started on the environment.

It's not hyperbole to say bluntly that Perfect is the Enemy of good right now.

I hope Biden is overtaken by frankly anyone except Tulsi and Yang, but pretending he's a secret republican is destructive nonsense. He's a doddering gaffe machine. But he's absolutely opposite this current flavor of republican. His opponent in a General would be an amoral criminal who would not even blink before throwing the entire country and consititution under a bus. Dems need to win this or we genuinely may never see another democratic majority in our lifetime because the tools to do so will be imperiled.

 

[woman]

If you watch the clip this comes from he clarifies that he's not "being a wise guy" when he says he can't think of one. Basically, he's not joking

 

[Netherscourge]

Why does Biden still run under the Democrat label?

Click to shrink...

Same reason progressives do. Money.

 

[Deleted member 2426]

What did 2004 Biden mean by this?

Biden endorses a Kerry-McCain ticket

 

[SugarNoodles]

I mean, if you want me to be blunt, because all the polling of non-voters show that -

a.) The vast majority of them aren't waiting for some person to speak to them, but rather, the most of them simply don't care about politics and/or think all politicians, and yes, Bernie would count as a politician to them, are all the same. Ironically, I guarantee that Trump brought out more non-voters in 2016 than even a perfectly ran Bernie Sanders presidential campaign can, because there aren't that many voters who aren't voting because there wasn't somebody to the left enough.

b.) Again, actual polling of non-voters that lean Democratic show them not to be secret socialists, but rather a lot like Obama-to-Trump voters -> socially moderate to conservative, and economically liberal. So, if that's true, why not chase after the people who are voting anyway?

Click to shrink...

Because the Democratic Party has been losing on that ticket for, like, the last several decades?

We know that increased voter turnout is good for democrats and bad for republicans and somehow the best strategy that establishment democrats can come up with is to go after to the people that can't even tell the difference between both parties?

Let's be clear that establishment politicians aren't here to win unless it means maintaining control. They're not going to support winning strategies if it threatens their future prospects. Why do you think Trump was so unsupported by the Republican establishment until he won?

He ran on the platform of bucking the system and generated massive amounts of support, but no, what people want is definitely a politician with the message of "let's keep things the same"

 

[Dream Machine]

What did 2004 Biden mean by this?

Biden endorses a Kerry-McCain ticket

Click to shrink...

A sly joke from feisty joe

 

[Deleted member 43]

What did 2004 Biden mean by this?

Biden endorses a Kerry-McCain ticket

Click to shrink...

I imagine he meant exactly what he said.

What's your point?

 

[elzeus]

Kasich could work and possibly Romney if they're really desperate.