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Bicycle ERA |OT| This Is Why

BabyMurloc

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
FeedMeAStrayCat said:
Looking for some advice:

I know practically nothing about bikes. My partner (the wonderful Viriditas) loves biking, though, and we're looking to spend a little on a bike. She currently only has a $30 Craigslist mountain bike purchase which is on its last legs. I know department store bikes are garbage, but our budget is probably going to max out at $300, and even that is probably a bit too pricey. I'm looking for advice on where to start. Should we go to local bike shops and peruse the very cheapest used bikes they have to offer? Any reputable online stores with any great sales going on currently? I've been checking Craigslist, FB Marketplace, etc, as well. She's told me she much prefers mountain bikes, though she does ride pretty much strictly on the road (the roads are pretty shitty here in Pennsylvania).

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of information, but it's all I have at the moment. :P
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With a budget that small and a love of bikes, I think the best thing is to get an cheap old bike with a quality frame and learn to fix as much as possible yourself. If there's a fixed gear/singlespeed community in your area, they're usually really good at making old bikes into quality bikes on the cheap. They might even have a community repair shop.
 
Frontieruk

Frontieruk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
Yeah they've appealed, and unfortunately there's precedent in they let Contador start while under investigation back in 2010, we all know how that turned out.
 
Psychotext

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,664
Totally wrecked after my ride earlier. Had to really rush the last part which really doesn't work well when you're riding fasted.
 
FondsNL

FondsNL

Member
Oct 29, 2017
958
It would be a PR nightmare if Froome actually started when nobody wants him there.
There is a time to face the music and the time is now.
The Giro organisers should've done the same. But they paid him 1 mil just to start so that would be losing too much face...
 
Psychotext

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,664
My legs have looked like that after multiple days of bikepacking. It's really not a good look. =/

I fucking hate my legs, even though they're really good at doing what they do.
 
FondsNL

FondsNL

Member
Oct 29, 2017
958
An abomination in my opinion.

No explanation whatsoever was given. He exceeded the limit by twice the legal margin.
Others were temporarily banned for at least a few months for lesser offenses.
The least the UCI should do, is at least explain why he is allowed to ride.

I won't be surprised if Hinault and others pick up the cry to strike against hit participation, and not ride.
 
Psychotext

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,664
I assume there has to be a report coming. I'd wager it'll state that their assumptions about the test protocol were wrong (basically the test is faulty).
 
TarpitCarnivore

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
Frontieruk

Frontieruk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
Psychotext said:
I assume there has to be a report coming. I'd wager it'll state that their assumptions about the test protocol were wrong (basically the test is faulty).
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Are you skys press release guy???

Sky presser said:
"Chris's elevated Salbutamol urine reading from Stage 18 of the Vuelta was treated as a 'presumed' Adverse Analytical Finding (AAF) by the UCI and WADA, which triggered a requirement for us to provide further information. After a comprehensive review of that information, relevant data and scientific research, the UCI and WADA have concluded that there was, in fact, no AAF and that no rule has been broken.

"We said at the outset that there are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of Salbutamol. The same individual can exhibit significant variations in test results taken over multiple days while using exactly the same amount of Salbutamol. This means that the level of Salbutamol in a single urine sample, alone, is not a reliable indicator of the amount inhaled. A review of all Chris's 21 test results from the Vuelta revealed that the Stage 18 result was within his expected range of variation and therefore consistent with him having taken a permitted dose of Salbutamol.
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HTupolev

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,413
Fun question #1:

Did whoever is in charge of the case just fast-track the results in the most obviously corrupt way possible?
-OR-
Did the ASO know when the decision was going to be announced, and they pre-empted it to troll the UCI?

Fun question #2:

What's the difference between this case and the salbutamol cases of Diego Ulissi and Alessandro Petacchi, who were both banned for lesser concentrations than detected with Froome?
 
Frontieruk

Frontieruk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
HTupolev said:
Fun question #1:

Did whoever is in charge of the case just fast-track the results in the most obviously corrupt way possible?
-OR-
Did the ASO know when the decision was going to be announced, and they pre-empted it to troll the UCI?

Fun question #2:

What's the difference between this case and the salbutamol cases of Diego Ulissi and Alessandro Petacchi, who were both banned for lesser concentrations than detected with Froome?
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Petacchi said:
"When I went to UCI after they contacted me, they showed me the history of all of my controls. All the controls were different, not one the same. It depends how soon you used it before the control, how concentrated your urine was.

"I used it more or less the same every time, but it'd vary: 300, 400, or 700 or 500. That time it was 1200, but that was the only one where I concentrated urine.

"Now, that's the only way I can justify how it happened. Had I had a bottle of water after the finish, instead I did the podium ceremony and the control, and maybe I didn't drink enough. Had I done that, maybe my urine would've been clean like the others."
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The New York Times has actually raised your point, and interestingly WADA rules state that an athlete can be cleared for excessive salbutamol use if he proves that it was due to an appropriate therapeutic dosage. Which I would of thought Ulissi would of met, due to the asthma attack he had afternoon crash... so either the bans get overturned or Froome is being protected, which hints at Sky's influence on the sport .
 
T8SC

T8SC

Member
Oct 28, 2017
908
UK
I just found my next Summer bike.

new%20cannondale%20systemsix%20tour%20de%20france%20fastest%20bike%204.jpg
 
Frontieruk

Frontieruk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
664
Gray Matter said:
Does ASO have to let him race?

Technically he still brings bad reputation to the sport no matter what the results say.
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No they don't, but they'd bring bad publicity on themselves, and bad blood with the UCI who have cleared him on WADA's advice which then brings them into disrepute as it implies ASO don't agree with the world anti-doper Organization.

Damn if the do, damned if they don't.

so a bit more has come to light and the high reading is due to a Kidney malfunction... so not doping with salbutamol but something not tested for and screwed with his kidneys? Or a case of dehydration like Petacchi felt his result was caused by?
 
FondsNL

FondsNL

Member
Oct 29, 2017
958
My main issue is that this is going to create precedent.
Instead of having to prove your innocence when testing positive, you can just have the case dropped when your legal team can stall shit long enough.

Unintentional or not, you know you're taking a risk when you're using a substance that has a legal limit. Especially if you're increasing your dosage.
Tested over the limit? You should be penalised regardless.
I'm afraid future cases will only become more and more convoluted.
 
Petrapan

Petrapan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
223
FondsNL said:
My main issue is that this is going to create precedent.
Instead of having to prove your innocence when testing positive, you can just have the case dropped when your legal team can stall shit long enough.

Unintentional or not, you know you're taking a risk when you're using a substance that has a legal limit. Especially if you're increasing your dosage.
Tested over the limit? You should be penalised regardless.
I'm afraid future cases will only become more and more convoluted.
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The differnece is that salbutamol, unlike other substances, does not have a limit on what urine concentrations that constitute a poative doping sample, it is only regulated on how much you can use. You have to explain yourself if you are over the set threshold, but it's not a doping positive unlike for other substances. This case would never have been public if it hadn't been leaked, which has probably happened severaø times before without it going public
 
BabyMurloc

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Petrapan said:
The differnece is that salbutamol, unlike other substances, does not have a limit on what urine concentrations that constitute a poative doping sample, it is only regulated on how much you can use. You have to explain yourself if you are over the set threshold, but it's not a doping positive unlike for other substances. This case would never have been public if it hadn't been leaked, which has probably happened severaø times before without it going public
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Roman Kreuziger successfully used a similar defence on a biological passport anomaly and no BP anomalies have been recorded after 2012 (cases have stretched out until 2014 like Kreuziger, but after that Wikipedia shows nothing). So this sort of stuff does work on UCI/WADA and afterwards they just might give up on the whole thing.

----

edit: also looks like WADA changed their rules specifically for Froome.

In the past, Wada has not adjusted the salbutamol threshold in test results to account for "high urine density", which can increase when you are dehydrated.But that is changing from 1 March 2018, and a Wada spokesperson told BBC Sport that for any case currently being adjudicated, "the most beneficial rule to the athlete would apply".
So if Froome qualified for this adjustment, a correction equation would bring his 2,000ng/ml reading down.
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https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/42417297
 
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Tango Scene

Banned
Dec 31, 2017
28
This whole situation with Froome has been an almighty farce.

First the leaking of information when the whole episode ought to have remained confidential; Froome was denied the anonymity that other cleared riders had. Then the unnecessarily drawn out investigation which detracted from the racing season for everyone. The acknowledgment that the testing regime generated an abnormal number of false positives. Then finally, that the authorities then sat on the outcome resulting in the ASO news at the weekend (even though they were apparently told Froome was clean).

The UCI, WADA and ASO come off incredibly poorly.

Gray Matter said:
Technically he still brings bad reputation to the sport no matter what the results say.
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For being one of the mostly highly competitive athletes going, and part of one of the slickest and well-run sports teams on the planet?

One thing that really brought the dedication to the team into focus for me was reading how many of Sky were absent during the birth of their kids because they were racing. Froome reiterated his commitment to his teammates not to abandon even though his wife is due because they made previous sacrifices themselves. You don't get that level of commitment and kinship in other teams which probably underlines why Sky are such a clinical unit.
 
FondsNL

FondsNL

Member
Oct 29, 2017
958
WADA weren't able to prove the validity of their own testing, that is a problem.
Bur the fact that the UCI isn't drawing a consistent line in their sentencing is a bigger problem.
The only thing WADA have said is that there is a false positive.
And Sky pretty much had as their defense that Froome just used a big dose before his dope control. Which is just as crazy as downing your beer before a police control.

The thing that lingers for me the most, is that were this someone like Tony Martin, he'd be banned within two weeks for at least half a year.
Plus we've now got a situation where the WADA and UCI have to prove their own testing and litigation, instead of a cyclist having to prove that they're clean. A huge step has been taken into that direction which will clearly be misused as precedent in the future.
 
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Tango Scene

Banned
Dec 31, 2017
28
I think the problem with the Froome case is that the deliberate leak didn't just put pressure on Sky and Froome to demonstrate that they were clean, it also put the spotlight on the actual testing regime itself, and just how inept WADA and the UCI are. I suspect the authorities would have preferred to this to go down the usual route of remaining confidential and then enable them to change internal procedures quietly.
 
TarpitCarnivore

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,202
I decided to buy a tripod mount for my iPhone and better record my position on the bike using the DIY tips from BikeFitAdvisor. I noticed I was near the top end of max flexion in the knee (around 150) so I dropped my seat 3-5mm and immediately felt the difference. I didn't feel like I was standing on the pedals the entire time and my pedaling felt way more fluid. Unfortunately I forgot to re-level my seat and this became apparent around 2-2 1/2 hours of riding when my shoulder tensed up.
 
BabyMurloc

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
So the best I can tell, Froome's case went like this:

1. Froome gets caught.
2. WADA alters the rules so that the physical test result must be adjusted downwards. Froome is still over the limit.
3. WADA alters the rules so that the limit is 20% higher. Froome is still over the limit.
4. WADA concludes that these things are a bit inaccurate so we must acquit.

edit: aaand Team Sky says there will be no information released on the specifics of this case, contradicting Froome's earlier statements.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tea...-information-on-chris-froome-salbutamol-case/
 
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bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,573
If Team Sky weren't British then you can guarantee that they'd not be getting such an easy ride. Wonder if David Walsh is busy these days?
 
robox

robox

Member
Nov 10, 2017
964
so a couple clubmates did an everest yesterday. 14 times up the local mountain. that shit takes a toll as they were struggling but they made it.

a lot of the club rode part of it in support. i did 4 trips up and it's defin'ly my biggest climbing day ever with over 3000m in just over 100km.
things i learned:
- no way i could've done it unsupported. i was eating a lot of snacks in between laps and took down 1 750ml bottle of water each trip
- i need to start buying gels n' drink mix. been just on water and energy bars before
- slow and steady does it. i'm usually on the power output limit when i climb up once on a ride
- i think i'm getting better at managing cramping. standing takes more energy but it alleviates oncoming cramps from seated pedalling
- also dealing better with 39-27 as my lowest gear. defin'ly getting mid compact with big cassette in next bike

my knees are feelin' pretty tender now. wondering if i should take some of the joint supplements my parents take...



as an aside, the sky/froome stans in the club were pretty happy with that news
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,573
robox said:
my knees are feelin' pretty tender now. wondering if i should take some of the joint supplements my parents take...
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I always think that you're as well to take cod liver oil and the like, even if they don't actually do any good, as they're super cheap and probably won't hurt :D
 
Gray Matter

Gray Matter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
992
Connecticut
This is probably the best week for the sport. The tour is about to start, and all the bike brands are releasing new products. The new Cannondale looks terrible imo, too much like a TT bike (those things are ugly) but it's probably fast as hell. The new venge looks way better than the previous model, that one takes the cake for ugliest bike in recent years. Then trek has been teasing something for the 6th, most likely the official announcement of the madone disc.

One thing I don't like however, is how the system six and the new venge are electronic/disc only. I know disc have been gaining popularity in the road racing side of cycling, but that just seems like limiting our choices, that's not to mention the hike in price for those components.
 
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