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Desodeset

Member
May 31, 2019
2,326
Sofia, Bulgaria
When it comes to the acquisition of Japanese companies, remember that Nintendo own vast amount of shares in Bandai-Namco. Nintendo also own a few shares in Konami, Square-Enix and Koei-Tecmo.

"Shares are held for the purpose of maintaining and developing the business relationship."

Something Microsoft would have to consider in regards to those companies. Would Nintendo increase their stakes in those companies to ward off any Microsoft acquisition?? Not sure.

They indeed have shares in some gaming companies like Konami and Square Enix, but their numbers are far from relevant (under 0.1%). For Bandai Namco is 1.75%. The biggest Nintendo investments are DeNa (11.6%) and Cygames (5%). For Koei Tecmo i could not find any info.

I am not sure if Microsoft could buy a japanese public company, especially after the new rules from 2019. Also Japanese government will definitely support japanese companies. I am pretty sure that Nintendo are looking for a possible merger. Won't be surprised if we see a lot of mergers from japanese gaming companies in near future to face american tech giants.

A pure speculation:
Bandai Namco - Sega Sammy;
Nintendo - Koei Tecmo;
Sony - Capcom
Konami - Square Enix
 

Alternade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
711
Would I be wrong in saying that Bethesda games more align with Xbox anyways so this isn't a great loss for Playstation owners? Idk their IPs never never did anything for me.

Now if Sony were to buy SquareEnix or Capcom that would be a megaton
 

Ninjadom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,195
London, UK
They indeed have shares in some gaming companies like Konami and Square Enix, but their numbers are far from relevant (under 0.1%). For Bandai Namco is 1.75%. The biggest Nintendo investments are DeNa (11.6%) and Cygames (5%). For Koei Tecmo i could not find any info.

I am not sure if Microsoft could buy a japanese public company, especially after the new rules from 2019. Also Japanese government will definitely support japanese companies. I am pretty sure that Nintendo are looking for a possible merger. Won't be surprised if we see a lot of mergers from japanese gaming companies in near future to face american tech giants.

A pure speculation:
Bandai Namco - Sega Sammy;
Nintendo - Koei Tecmo;
Sony - Capcom
Konami - Square Enix
Page 42 and 43.

 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,744
I'm sure Platinum would love to hook up with the company that nearly bankrupted them lol.
Kamiya nearly bankrupted them and there's no resentment.

JP Kellams himself:

www.resetera.com

Port of Wonderful101 for Xbox One was discarded because the engine for the console was "too different"

Inevitably, every six months I need to come post here to shut down some blowhard who insists they know why Scalebound was cancelled. I know exactly why the game was cancelled, in excruciating detail. You have no idea what you are talking about. Every public comment I've seen made about the...
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
There absolutely is seperation between Insomniac's game and the games that preceded it, made by completely different developers, with different gameplay focuses and continuities, than games in one continuous series by the same developer.

I'd have to disagree, they are both fairly standard open word fair, sorry missions + scattered collecabtles.
The games broadly share the same control scheme for swinging and many of the same mechanics (such as the move that was introduced in the later benox game , which slows time right down so you can aim a swing mid flight) , a series of cool looking QTE sequences and of course the rhythm combat.

You would not go from the last game and be alienated or unable to understand what game you are playing as the core gameplay is the same.
Any changes you would expect have come from 5 years of time passing, and a huge budget. Not the developer themselves, who have built on top what of existed before.

Unlike God of War, which looks feels and plays so incredibly different to its previous games to the point of almost being a different genre.
 

Cthulhu_Steev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,387
Yes because Sony got devs delivered by stalks
2b0a4478746b7bfae06b00ba6a6dea57_twins-gif-find-share-on-giphy_303-235.gif

dscn1491.jpg
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,650
Would I be wrong in saying that Bethesda games more align with Xbox anyways so this isn't a great loss for Playstation owners? Idk their IPs never never did anything for me.

Now if Sony were to buy SquareEnix or Capcom that would be a megaton

Worse than that, they ran like shit everytime. I bought Skyrim for PS3 day one and i swear i still can't grasp how it was possible to deliver a game in that state. I've never seen a Triple A Game this broken in my Life it was such a mess.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
Microsoft's purchase of Bethesda was to own the future of games in light of not just Sony, Nintendo, but Amazon and Google and Apple all looking to get in.

Its a shit anti-competitive move because they can't compete on their own merits / studios.

Awkward.

Naughty Dog
Insominiac
Guerrilla Games
Media Molecule
Sucker Punch
Bend Studios

Were all bought by Sony.
 

Sylmaron

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,506
Worse than that, they ran like shit everytime. I bought Skyrim for PS3 day one and i swear i still can't grasp how it was possible to deliver a game in that state. I've never seen a Triple A Game this broken in my Life it was such a mess.
I still remember the outrage on the Bethesda forums at the time. I did my part back then. Skyrim on PS3 at launch was a dumpster fire.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,271
Would I be wrong in saying that Bethesda games more align with Xbox anyways so this isn't a great loss for Playstation owners? Idk their IPs never never did anything for me.

Now if Sony were to buy SquareEnix or Capcom that would be a megaton
Elder Scrolls and Fallout is a huge deal for Playstation gamers. Elder Scrolls 6 alone is a megaton.
 

Desodeset

Member
May 31, 2019
2,326
Sofia, Bulgaria
Awkward.

Naughty Dog
Insominiac
Guerrilla Games
Media Molecule
Sucker Punch
Bend Studios

Were all bought by Sony.

And none of these studios has huge history on all platforms for decades. They are closer comparison to Playground Games, Undead Labs. Similar cases are Asobo, Bungie and Remedy. There is no need of bias. It is enough to check the history of every single studio.
 

haveheart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,076
And none of these studios has huge history on all platforms for decades. They are closer comparison to Playground Games, Undead Labs. Similar cases are Asobo, Bungie and Remedy. There is no need of bias. It is enough to check the history of every single studio.
But people choose to ignore that in Defense of the mega corp they're rooting for.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
And none of these studios has huge history on all platforms for decades. They are closer comparison to Playground Games, Undead Labs. Similar cases are Asobo, Bungie and Remedy. There is no need of bias. It is enough to check the history of every single studio.

Sony had only existed for less than a decade when some of these purchases were made, so yeah.
You can warp it into all flavours of subjectivity, these studios were all bought to compete in the industry when owned assets were less than steller, which is what the poster I was replying to was claiming that Microsoft exclusively has done.

The reality of it is that as well as the big corporate business world in which we exist, there is the human side. Many studios are still privately owned and their owners are looking for exit strategies, particularly the mature studios where the owners are now in their 50's.

Which is the big question about what will happen to Valve as Gabe approaches retirement age.
 

Biteren

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,606
Look I'm not gonna hide behind some convoluted reason, I like bethesda games on playstation, I like elder scrolls and fallout I had a good time with 4 even, I like machine games and ariane, and most importantly, the doom series is my favorite of all time. I was soooooo crushed when they did this. I look around my room with all the doom merch I accumulated and just felt sad. But it is what it is and theres nothing I can do to change it, I have 2 options, abandon bethesda games including future doom games or get in the boat and get xbox/upgrade pc, I chose to get in the boat.

Now I dont think any of these games outside of standing contracts will come to playstation outside of miracles and so this is a truth I'm going to have to accept and move on.

I have begun budgeting for a series x
 

Kindofblue

Banned
Sep 23, 2018
106
Awkward.

Naughty Dog
Insominiac
Guerrilla Games
Media Molecule
Sucker Punch
Bend Studios

Were all bought by Sony.

As it has been pointed virtually all those developers houses had a history developing almost exclusively for Playstation. Bloody hell, I thought Insomniac was already owned by Sony untill Fuse came out in 2013. I mean how many games did they develop on PlayStation prior to acquisition, 15-20?

You can't compare Sony buying a couple of relatively small and at times largely unknown indie dev houses to Microsoft buying the likes of Bethesda.

Skyrim alone is one of the best selling games of all time with 30 million units across multiple platforms, And even with the shoddy ports Bethesda games have sold relatively well on PlayStation platforms.

This isn't me being resentful, the industry is a business after all and if anything this is a strong move on behalf of Microsoft, but to act like this move is the equivalent to Sony buying Media Molecule is quite frankly ludicrous, its an entirely different ballgame.
 
Last edited:

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
Sony acquired tons of studios but it was (largely) in the distant past. I am making no moral judgements here, only seeking to provide a broader context.

(Defunct)
  • Psygnosis -> Acquired in 1993 specifically as part of their push to have software ready for this newfangled "Playstation" -> Rebranded Studio Liverpool -> Shut down / Defunct in 2012. Had a 7 year multiplatform history (Various microcomputers, DOS, a bit of Sega).
  • CyberLife games -> Acquired in 1997, rebranded SCE Cambridge -> Rebranded Guerilla Cambridge -> Shut down in 2017. CyberLife was a new studio that had shipped one game on PC/Mac prior to acquisition.
  • Incognito Entertainment -> Acquired in 2002 -> Considered defunct by 2009. Only worked on PS games.
  • Evolution Studios & Big Big Studios -> Acquired in 2007 -> Shut down in 2016 (Evolution) and 2012 (BigBig). Sony acted as a publisher in Europe on their first game then became exclusive publisher later on before acquisition.
  • Zipper Interactive -> Acquired in 2006 -> Shut down in 2012. They worked together on several Socom games before the acquisition, but before that were known as a PC developer (notably on MechWarrior 3 and Crimson Skies).

(Active)
  • MediaMolecule -> Acquired in 2010. Sony had them on lockdown from basically as soon as the studio started because they liked their LBP pitch.
  • Guerilla Games -> Acquired in 2005. They had developed Shellshock Nam 67 for Eidos and Killzone for Sony - both companies wanted to acquire Guerilla, Sony was the winner.
  • Sucker Punch -> Acquired in 2011. Started out for Nintendo 64, but then went Sony exclusive for a long time.
  • Bend -> Acquired in 2000. They'd made one game with Sony that shipped the year earlier.
  • Naughty Dog -> Acquired in 2001. They worked on several Crash Bandicoot games together prior to the acquisition, were multiplat prior to those games.
  • Insomniac -> Acquired in 2019. Long history with Sony, but had switched to being a multiplatform developer before getting locked down.


Sony's most aggressive acquisition phase was the late 90's through mid 00's. It's true that many of these studios had a history with Sony - but this was also in an era when there were zillions of free, independent studios to commission large scale (for the time) games. When it took 12-18 months to make a whole top tier game. Sony and Microsoft were, in the early 00's, funding games all over the place for PS2 and Xbox.

Microsoft's content pipeline circa 2016 was dramatically smaller than Sony's. Both Sony had Microsoft had shut down several studios between 2012-2017, but Microsoft had fewer to begin. Microsoft's strategy going right back to 2001 was to commission lots of games from third parties - much in the way Sony was doing during the PS1 and PS2 eras before they started acquiring all their partners. Had Microsoft pursued the same strategy as Sony, we would have seen companies like Bioware, Bizarre Creations, Team Ninja and others become Microsoft studios.

By the mid 2010's, there were fewer such studios in existence at any meaningful scale. Most being bought up by publishers or going out of business, with said publishers being increasingly hesitant to go exclusive with their games on account of dramatically increasing development costs and increased ease of multi-platform development.

Thus, we have the modern industry context. Broad scale consolidation, massive studio sizes, a small number of massive publishers making fewer games than ever before with more staff than ever before.

Sony has a long history of purchases yes, but the point is that none of them were gigantic conglomerate purchases that affected possibly a half dozen high profile multi platform studios.They were studios with long histories or smaller acquisitions.

Some people both here and elsewhere are trying to say Sony had it coming or some such due to exclusive timing deals, purchasing studios, etc.

I just don't see that at all. Microsoft had those same deals at times and they were not the market leader.

I'm actually thrilled with the purchase. With GamePass this secured my decision to for go buying a Series X and just buy a 3080/Big Navi. Most of the titles in their collection (Zenimax) I play on PC.

Microsoft is making strides in GaaS and again I feel like this puts Sony in a corner (in regards to putting GamePass on PS5).
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,109
Some people both here and elsewhere are trying to say Sony had it coming or some such due to exclusive timing deals, purchasing studios, etc.

I just don't see that at all. Microsoft had those same deals at times and they were not the market leader.

Yes people saying that are doing very bad/superficial analysis, it's playground logic - these companies are working on strategies beyond the level of tit-for-tat slapfights. Microsoft is doing it because they need a lot of internal content to execute on their strategy. The only way to achieve their vision in a reasonable timeframe is acquisitions. Acquiring a publisher came as a surprise to me, but I was expecting several more studios on some level, because they want to be able to produce a steady stream of content to furnish their subscriptions, as well as build a steady back catalogue of permanent titles. Exclusivity benefits their console-sales to some extent as well, but that's a complementary benefit, not the sole reason they're doing this. They certainly did not launch into these negotiations because they heard on the grape vine that FF16 was going to be 6 months PS5 exclusive.

Sony is purchasing timed exclusives because it's part of their preexisting strategy - go hard early in the generation, get momentum, and attempt to achieve market dominance in terms of consoles sold, which in turn allows them to reap major ecosystem rewards. The sheer volume of content and timed exclusives is a little surprising, but that's partly opportunity (the companies need to be willing to take the deals, which in Bethesda's case means being on slightly hard times), and partly with the expectaiton that Microsoft was going to be fighting somewhat fiercely - regardless of the exact form that took. The middle years of XBO was pretty easy for Sony to deal with, Microsoft's pipeline dried up and it's advantages were fairly modest, but starting in 2017-2018 they saw (just like all of us) major signals that they weren't retreating from the industry, they were doubling down on it.

Sony's acquisition of Insomniac (and I'm fairly confident this will include Bluepoint within the next 12 months or so) is a safeguard against acquisitions both from Microsoft and other publishers + international investors like Tencent. The industry is consolidating majorly, as I mentioned above, and Sony is aware that if they don't start locking down more of their partners, they could potentially lose them.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,682
England
The state of those studios were not what they were when sony bought them. Playstation elevated them to a higher power.

To be fair - they had to. The PS3 gen saw them royally busted - previous PS exclusive series found their way to 360 and it was by far to the end of the generation the prime platform for third parties and all favouritism from publishers. They had to make their own content to compete, so ploughed into those studios. Now Microsoft are in the same position - not the platform of choice and sorely lacking on content and needing to fight.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,353
Yes people saying that are doing very bad/superficial analysis, it's playground logic - these companies are working on strategies beyond the level of tit-for-tat slapfights.

I agree, with the addendum that someone on Era saying "Sony/Microsoft had it coming", isn't the same thing as asserting that "they had it coming" is the REASON Sony/Microsoft made the decision.
 

Thagirion

Member
Dec 6, 2018
493
Would I be wrong in saying that Bethesda games more align with Xbox anyways so this isn't a great loss for Playstation owners? Idk their IPs never never did anything for me.

Now if Sony were to buy SquareEnix or Capcom that would be a megaton

I wish MS bought capcom more than any other just so we get street fighter with killer instinct online (buy just street fighter and give everything else away don't care)
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,859
It's clear that, after contracts have been fulfilled, MS will keep Bethesda games on Xbox platforms. The exceptions being ESO and smaller games coming to mobile/Switch from the smaller studios acquired. That's easily sufficient to satisfy the "case by case" statement.

But none of the big hitters are coming to PS.

No Starfield, no Deathloop 2, no Elder Scrolls, no Doom 3 etc.
 

Deleted member 14927

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
648
I believe it was inevitable that MS acquired a publisher or two given their strategic direction towards Gamepass and acquiring content for it.

I also, believe that process was sped up due to the moves Sony was making by trying to choke off content from Xbox by paying companies to exclude their platforms.

Sony execs probably thought this would be the best strategy to counter the more powerful box at the start of a new generation. Why risk comparisons showing up when you can exclude the compeition? This strategy was working for them.

Microsoft was then faced with the content they need to sell their ecosystem on drying up, which would have kick started their content plans and brought them forward. They're in this for the long haul as evidenced by the price they stamped there.

I wouldn't be suprised to see them go for another Publisher in Take 2, and maybe some smaller studios

Ubisoft has circa 18k employees so neither Sony nor Microsoft would countenance taking them on. EA / Activision have circa 9k, which again is a big annual investment.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,811
Half of this thread reads like someone going through the 5 stages of grief. 😆
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
Capcom being brought would be a gamebreaker if Sony brought Capcom.

Imagine Devil May Cry, Resident Evil, Monster Hunter series...etc

That right there would most likely be a generational win for Sony.

That would completely and utterly suck for Nintendo and Microsoft.

Now purchase from Konami, that's a little different since they've already removed themselves from the console publishing area and only releases arcade old school games two consoles.

I could see Kojima running Konami if that happens.
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
The trick with that though is that the current status quo is likely also a generational win for Sony.


I think Sony going to stay put for now, but if Microsoft makes another move and buys out another publisher I think Sony start thinking real hard about purchasing third-party Japan publishers. Maybe they can talk Nintendo into a merger(lol).
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
Sony has a long history of purchases yes, but the point is that none of them were gigantic conglomerate purchases that affected possibly a half dozen high profile multi platform studios.They were studios with long histories or smaller acquisitions.
Psygnosis was. They were a publisher with multiple studios and big properties (Lemmings, Shadow of the Beast, etc). And really Sony had almost no preexisting history with them either, unlike Bethesda and MS.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
They indeed have shares in some gaming companies like Konami and Square Enix, but their numbers are far from relevant (under 0.1%). For Bandai Namco is 1.75%. The biggest Nintendo investments are DeNa (11.6%) and Cygames (5%). For Koei Tecmo i could not find any info.

I am not sure if Microsoft could buy a japanese public company, especially after the new rules from 2019. Also Japanese government will definitely support japanese companies. I am pretty sure that Nintendo are looking for a possible merger. Won't be surprised if we see a lot of mergers from japanese gaming companies in near future to face american tech giants.

A pure speculation:
Bandai Namco - Sega Sammy;
Nintendo - Koei Tecmo;
Sony - Capcom
Konami - Square Enix

Why would Konami and Square Enix merge? Konami has not show that they're serious about being an actual developement house and rather bleed their franchises dry.
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
Psygnosis was. They were a publisher with multiple studios and big properties (Lemmings, Shadow of the Beast, etc). And really Sony had almost no preexisting history with them either, unlike Bethesda and MS.

Psygnosis was bought for around 30 million in '93 which is around 54 million in today's dollars. They also still published games on other consoles after the acquisition iirc.

I understand what you're saying but I don't think Psygnosis was a huge company in the vein of Sony buying Electronic Arts or CAPCOM. It's been 25 years lol so I can't remember the Titans of the day back then.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,838
Would I be wrong in saying that Bethesda games more align with Xbox anyways so this isn't a great loss for Playstation owners? Idk their IPs never never did anything for me.

Now if Sony were to buy SquareEnix or Capcom that would be a megaton
Are you kidding? Elder Scrolls 6 is a massive system seller. The epitome of a megaton.

I would actually even argue that it alone is bigger than anything Sony has to offer in terms of overall popularity.
 

SnazzyNaz

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 11, 2019
1,874
User Warned: Platform Waring
I see SonyEra is has reached the 'Anger' stage of grief.
 

Liliana

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,375
NYC
I think Sony going to stay put for now, but if Microsoft makes another move and buys out another publisher I think Sony start thinking real hard about purchasing third-party Japan publishers. Maybe they can talk Nintendo into a merger(lol).

The fact that you even suggested that is hilarious. 0% chance of Sony and Nintendo ever merging. And you also cannot just go around buying publishers like it's open season. They have to want to be bought.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
Psygnosis was bought for around 30 million in '93 which is around 54 million in today's dollars. They also still published games on other consoles after the acquisition iirc.

I understand what you're saying but I don't think Psygnosis was a huge company in the vein of Sony buying Electronic Arts or CAPCOM. It's been 25 years lol so I can't remember the Titans of the day back then.
It's not an exact match but Psygnosis was big in the UK/Europe (most of their games being on ST/Amiga/etc). I believe they went through other publishers overseas though so they weren't really a global force. And again Lemmings was huge (over 20m copies sold), easily equivalent in it's day to any of Bethesda's properties today. Bethesda's not really anywhere near on level with EA though, Capcom comes close but is still a little larger. Capcom, Konami, Sega but that might be it really, there aren't really other "middle AAA" in this sphere in the west. Maybe the Embracer Group (THQ Nordic)?

I don't think doing a direct inflation based currency conversion is really an accurate representation of though, the industry is so different today (as are financial markets) that it's not a good reflection of real relative value.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
Also, the idea of "high-speed internet" being the harbinger of discless consoles ignores the fact that most people in America are trapped in shitty deals with shitty ISPs who hold all the power. Y'all corporate dummies realize Comcast is the devil, right?

Yea, I have a good friend down south who literally has to choose what game he wants to download in a given month because of data caps, and he can't afford the wild prices Comcast charges for unlimited. If these game tech moguls really wanted to usher in a discless future they'd lean on politicians and lawmakers to hold ISP's accountable and get rid of this backward, price gouging reality of shitty service with datacaps that is still all too common in much of the world.
 

Oddhouse

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,037
I think I would have rather Microsoft have got them over Sony.

I intend on getting a PS5 but prefer my PC as my main gaming machine and MS commitment to PC means I get to play their games on my main machine.
 

gpn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
475
Would I be wrong in saying that Bethesda games more align with Xbox anyways so this isn't a great loss for Playstation owners? Idk their IPs never never did anything for me.

I can only speak for myself, but Oblivion and Skyrim were my two most played games on PS3, Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE are my most played games on PS4, and Skyrim VR is my most played PSVR game. The purchase of Bethesda has pushed me over to Xbox for the next generation.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,996
I just wanted to come in this thread and just ask that someone post the Vince McMahon higher power gif but plaster Sony on his face.
 
OP
OP
TaterTots

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,963
People tend to forget MS and Bethesda have had a close relationship over the years. To the point of Bethesda actually being able to alter the hardware of the 360(RAM). I get that it seems shitty due to the multiplatform games, but the purchase kind of fits if you look at their full history.