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Dyno

AVALANCHE
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,433
For hack n slash it's got to be the dmc series for me. Tps is a hard call between mgsv and Max Payne. For fps oddly I'd pick destiny. While I think halo is a more interesting shooter in general fos controls haven't ever felt as tight as in destiny to me and I'm going more by the overall feel.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
Ultimate DOOM

RE4

DMC3

Melee

I think the list mostly speaks for itself. A lot of Platinum games and the Souls games are up there too. And I think the DMC sequels come close. Honestly 5 may surpass 3 but I haven't spent as much time on it and V is kind of borderline for me. What brings Souls down a peg is that I was ultimately just poising through attacks and spamming R1 most of the time in Souls 1, my favorite entry. You spam R1 through Bloodborne too, but I didn't like it as much.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,178
It depends what you like out of a combat system.

Personally, I prefer simple combat systems that are tested through environment and enemy designs. Games like Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry put the emphasis on combos and doing complex chains, and I personally don't find that enjoyable or engaging.
I....this may sound mean, but I read this and I SERIOUSLY question whether you've actually played Ninja Gaiden.

DMC is stylish action, Ninja Gaiden may be stylish and be an action game, but it is NOT some combo machine where you just mash and destroy people. NG is the game for people that think souls games are for babies.
 

Liferebooted

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2017
209
I....this may sound mean, but I read this and I SERIOUSLY question whether you've actually played Ninja Gaiden.

DMC is stylish action, Ninja Gaiden may be stylish and be an action game, but it is NOT some combo machine where you just mash and destroy people. NG is the game for people that think souls games are for babies.
What? I found all the Ninja games to be easier o.o Wondering if you actually played them. o.0
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,900
Las Vegas
I....this may sound mean, but I read this and I SERIOUSLY question whether you've actually played Ninja Gaiden.

DMC is stylish action, Ninja Gaiden may be stylish and be an action game, but it is NOT some combo machine where you just mash and destroy people. NG is the game for people that think souls games are for babies.

Dude you just flying swallow shit all day. That and X,Y,X,X,X,Y if that doesn't work. Or fuck it do some obliteration techniques.

Ninja Gaiden is just as much dumb fun as DMC / Bayonetta is. I'm rolling around all over the place fucking shit up. No different. But with less combat control since it's more dial a combo focused. And yes, I've cleared all these games on the hardest settings.

Also, do people not remember how hard DMC3 was?

Remember this guy - aka, "easy mode unlocked"

Devil-May-Cry-HD-Collection_2011_12-19-11_003.jpg


What? I found all the Ninja Gaiden games to be easier o.o Wondering if you actually played them. o.0

To be honest the only action game I really struggled with was DMC1. Clearing through that game (Dante Must Die) is what has literally made every single action game come out after that a cake walk. It's like, life lessons learned for the genre. It happened again with Demon Souls. But after Demon Souls, no Souls game really offered anywhere near the same level of challenge because you inherently learn what the game's demand from you. Even if they play slightly different.
 

Ging

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
128
First Person Shooter/Co-Op: Rainbow Six Vegas 2
Third Person Shooter: Vanquish
2D: Hotline Miami
Card: Triple Triad FFVIII/Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Monsters
Fighting: Tekken 5
Auto battler: Contact
Open-world (System-Driven): MGSV
JRPG/Party/Turn-based: FFXII
RTS: Starcraft II
TRPG/SRPG: Fire Emblem Three Houses
Horror: F.E.A.R.
Puzzle: Puzzle Quest
Racing: Wipeout/Rollcage
Hack N Slash: DMC3
Survival: Rimworld
Beat 'em up: Streets of Rage
Rhythm: Parappa
Quick-Time Events: None
Action: Nier:Automata
Sports: Rocket League

Almost perfect: Killer is Dead/Onimusha 2
 
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Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
Some people prefer DMC 3 overall over DMC 5 and thats understandable but to say DMC 3 has better combat mechanics than DMC 5 is nonsense.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,987
Ninja Gaiden II for Xbox 360.

The quality of a Combat system not only comes from having an excellent set of actions/ moves/ weapons/ combos available, but is dependent on the quality of the fight AI, combat scenarios, and combat options for each scenario. Nothing else can touch Ninja Gaiden 2 in this department. Great candidates like Bayonetta are still severely lacking in the amount of combat strategy comparatively, and the depth of the enemy encounters (beyond the first playthrough) in my opinion.
Ninja Gaiden Black is far superior when it comes to enemy encounters. The AI is superior, there are less bullshit enemies, and each difficulty changes the enemy composition. You go from normal mode with your usual enemies and it gets amped up in each successive difficulty.
Bosses get minions in hard+
Ryu clones show up in hard+
Some enemies are given upgrades, some are new enemies like the vigoor berserker

The enemies and AI in NG2 are woeful comparatively.
 

Master Chuuster

GamingBolt.com
Verified
Dec 14, 2017
2,653
Wouldn't call it the best of all time, but I thought Horizon: Zero Dawn was amazing. Other than Sekiro (and maybe God of War and Spidey), it's the only game in the last 2-3 years that has really stood out to me in terms of combat. Persona 5 and Octopath were also great, if we go into turn-based territory.
 

DaciaJC

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,685
That looks incredible! I hope it comes to the PS4.

My vote for now the Dark Soulds/Bloodborne games.

Unfortunately, the last I heard (which was admittedly a while ago), the devs didn't have plans to port the game to console. But that may have changed given how successful it was on PC.

I stand corrected, great choice! This is the best combat system, it's unbelievably complex and as I said earlier I just can't believe how much I've been converted to be a true believer in first person melee combat, Mordhau is the truth.

Yep, it's a fantastic showcase of how fluid, immersive, and skill-based melee combat can be done well in first-person.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Is it perverse that Nethack is the first thing that comes to mind. To me, action can not convey combat fully. It needs to be studied like going frame by frame in a beautifully choreographed action movie.

Super hot VR would be up there if the throwing was better.
 

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,254
Metal Gear Rising and Sekiro are my favorites. The parry mechanics are so god damn satisfying, and it makes Ninja Gaiden's block system seem so unengaging by comparison. I'd kill for a sequel or spiritual successor to MGR, and I almost feel like I got it with the Sekiro, bundled with an amazingly crafted open world.

I'd follow those up with DMC3, specifically, as I truly don't find any enjoyment from DMC4&5's style switching system with Dante.
 

motherless

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,282
Unfortunately, the last I heard (which was admittedly a while ago), the devs didn't have plans to port the game to console. But that may have changed given how successful it was on PC.



Yep, it's a fantastic showcase of how fluid, immersive, and skill-based melee combat can be done well in first-person.

Ok, thanks for sharing. I may see if it runs well on my iMac.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
Metal Gear Rising and Sekiro are my favorites. The parry mechanics are so god damn satisfying, and it makes Ninja Gaiden's block system seem so unengaging by comparison. I'd kill for a sequel or spiritual successor to MGR, and I almost feel like I got it with the Sekiro, bundled with an amazingly crafted open world.

I'd follow those up with DMC3, specifically, as I truly don't find any enjoyment from DMC4&5's style switching system with Dante.
Yeah I know Sekiro isn't the best one if you try to be objective, but during the final battles the amount of parries you have to perfect is insane and feels amazing to pull off.
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,557
Vancouver, BC
Ninja Gaiden Black is far superior when it comes to enemy encounters. The AI is superior, there are less bullshit enemies, and each difficulty changes the enemy composition. You go from normal mode with your usual enemies and it gets amped up in each successive difficulty.
Bosses get minions in hard+
Ryu clones show up in hard+
Some enemies are given upgrades, some are new enemies like the vigoor berserker

The enemies and AI in NG2 are woeful comparatively.

Like, Ninja Gaiden Gaiden Black is possibly my favorite game of all time, so I'm not going to argue hard with you here. Ninja Gaiden 2 isn't nearly as polished as black, but the depth of combat options, attacks, and combos available, along with the significantly better and more varied weapons, the extraordinarily bloody and vicious battles, and how exhilarating it is to take on 6 Ninjas at once, nevermind many of the later combat encounters make it my favorite combat system. There are some cheap encounters though (rocket spam), something you would never see in Ninja Gaiden Black, and the Boss Encounters while always cool, and somewhat broken and cheap at times. Black is certainly the better game.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,849
I feel like most of the good fighting games are contenders (since that's their whole point), but its 100% this:


More freestyle potential than a character action game. One of the highest skill ceilings out there.
The fact that its still played and watched by so many people decades later is solid evidence in favor of being the GOAT. It spawned the Esport that is competitive Smash and inspired other platform fighters.

I enjoy Bloodborne, Sekiro, DMC, Bayonetta etc a lot but they don't stay fresh for long.
 
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OP
OP
Firmament1

Firmament1

Member
Aug 15, 2019
1,288
Some people prefer DMC 3 overall over DMC 5 and thats understandable but to say DMC 3 has better combat mechanics than DMC 5 is nonsense.
I disagree. DMC 5 is more complex and has more options overall, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better. Depth is more than just how many combos it's possible to perform or how many complex things are on the controller.

Metal Gear Rising and Sekiro are my favorites. The parry mechanics are so god damn satisfying, and it makes Ninja Gaiden's block system seem so unengaging by comparison. I'd kill for a sequel or spiritual successor to MGR, and I almost feel like I got it with the Sekiro, bundled with an amazingly crafted open world.

I'd follow those up with DMC3, specifically, as I truly don't find any enjoyment from DMC4&5's style switching system with Dante.
My problem with MGR and Sekiro is that outside of the parrying, the combat is kinda meh, in my eyes.
 

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,254
I disagree. DMC 5 is more complex and has more options overall, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better. Depth is more than just how many combos it's possible to perform or how many complex things are on the controller.


My problem with MGR and Sekiro is that outside of the parrying, the combat is kinda meh, in my eyes.
It's really a different beast, and that's awesome that the genre has provided us the options. I feel like a mountain dew-fueled, turned up to 11 version of a Kurosawa samurai when combat ebbs and flows between attacking and parrying.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,987
Like, Ninja Gaiden Gaiden Black is possibly my favorite game of all time, so I'm not going to argue hard with you here. Ninja Gaiden 2 isn't nearly as polished as black, but the depth of combat options, attacks, and combos available, along with the significantly better and more varied weapons, the extraordinarily bloody and vicious battles, and how exhilarating it is to take on 6 Ninjas at once, nevermind many of the later combat encounters make it my favorite combat system. There are some cheap encounters though (rocket spam), something you would never see in Ninja Gaiden Black, and the Boss Encounters while always cool, and somewhat broken and cheap at times. Black is certainly the better game.

I will concur that NG2s combat, when it works, makes you feel like a killing machine. The way you just slice enemies to bits makes you feel powerful, and the expanded movesets are pretty cool. The weapons as a whole were an improvement I'd say as well. The talons are awesome, kusari-gama, twin swords, they all are great. OTs were a stellar addition to the combat, very satisfying.

I missed the dabilahro though. It is so satisfying to dodge, ->Y and chop people to death haha. I didn't like the scythe, it didn't have the same heft. It is too fast.
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,557
Vancouver, BC
I will concur that NG2s combat, when it works, makes you feel like a killing machine. The way you just slice enemies to bits makes you feel powerful, and the expanded movesets are pretty cool. The weapons as a whole were an improvement I'd say as well. The talons are awesome, kusari-gama, twin swords, they all are great. OTs were a stellar addition to the combat, very satisfying.

I missed the dabilahro though. It is so satisfying to dodge, ->Y and chop people to death haha. I didn't like the scythe, it didn't have the same heft. It is too fast.

It would have been cool to have a heavy sword like that in NG2, but I love the Scythe. It is a dismemberment machine, and while fairly simple in comparison to other weapons, I found it so satisfying to slice through limbs like butter.

I also liked how the magic blended into the combat, and was encouraged instead of discouraged (scoring system). The windblades are a gore spectacle.

Every inch of NGB was just so polished though, and every single aspect was useful and well considered. It's such a tragedy that Itagaki and team weren't able to finish NG2 properly.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,437
I find dmc3 better than dmc5. Dmc5 feels too low gravity sometimes. Vergil fights are so much more intense when you cant just float everywhere.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
disagree. DMC 5 is more complex and has more options overall, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's better. Depth is more than just how many combos it's possible to perform or how many complex things are on the controller.
I agree that its not only about how many things you can do but then what would you say is better about DMC 3s combat system because I struggle to see what is better. Nero fills the roll Dante had in DMC 3 by having depth but being limited as well in his moveset. Character action games are very iterative in the design they have and DMC3 was the biggest step forward but that was 2005. DMC 5 is even better in terms of accessibility too.
I know people adore DMC3 (me too) but DMC 5 has almost everything DMC 3 had in terms of moveset and styles in a more polished/iterated fashion. DMC 3 glass shattered kills comes to mind as being better feedback tho.
Also Itsuno agrees its the best system to date for what thats worth.
 

Mupod

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,911
For me it'll always be Monster Hunter but I certainly appreciate DMC5 and the cuhrayzee genre. DMC5 in particular felt like I could do cool shit without having to be some kind of wahoo pizza man Jedi, but there was limitless potential for improvement.

But I just love the feel of MH, and it's certainly no slouch in terms of rewarding practice and dedication. I'm way into Hunting Horns (again) and while the actual inputs aren't complicated, it feels like I could play this one weapon for all eternity and still never fully master it.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,987
Every inch of NGB was just so polished though, and every single aspect was useful and well considered. It's such a tragedy that Itagaki and team weren't able to finish NG2 properly.

Yea that would have been a dream! We can't expect every game to have like 5 years of development and a new iteration though haha (but that'd be cool)
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
Probably Destiny (during its good periods)
Destiny for me.

Then probably Monster Hunter. Then Probably a Souls/Borne game.
Seeing alot of Destiny for FPS's, what makes Destiny so good for you since I played a bunch of Destiny 1 and very little of 2 and found that the feedback/impact was amazing but nothing about the mechanics stood out to me, kinda prefered Halo since the enemies are more distinct in how they behave and interact with you and your weapons.
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
Seeing alot of Destiny for FPS's, what makes Destiny so good for you since I played a bunch of Destiny 1 and very little of 2 and found that the feedback/impact was amazing but nothing about the mechanics stood out to me, kinda prefered Halo since the enemies are more distinct in how they behave and interact with you and your weapons.
I dunno man. Hard to explain. When you do the hard content like the Raids and you are really cranking down on the systems, movement, and gameplay, the whole thing just sings.
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Seeing alot of Destiny for FPS's, what makes Destiny so good for you since I played a bunch of Destiny 1 and very little of 2 and found that the feedback/impact was amazing but nothing about the mechanics stood out to me, kinda prefered Halo since the enemies are more distinct in how they behave and interact with you and your weapons.

Personally for me the primary interest is in PvP not PvE, and Destiny is the more varied game in that aspect.

But even in PvE I think Destiny has the advantage due to the raids and generally huge variety of playstyles available to you.

Edit: and mobility as the person above said, especially vertical mobility.

Bungie has issues with balancing though and often has forays into crazy philosophies that hurt the gameplay for a while.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
I dunno man. Hard to explain. When you do the hard content like the Raids and you are really cranking down on the systems, movement, and gameplay, the whole thing just sings.
It does feel like cash money so I get what you mean, It just is polished to the point that it feels like a new car. And mobility does feel great but DOOM Eternal seems like a huge step up in that regard. Fuck im pumped for DOOM.
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
It does feel like cash money so I get what you mean, It just is polished to the point that it feels like a new car. And mobility does feel great but DOOM Eternal seems like a huge step up in that regard. Fuck im pumped for DOOM.
Doom is great! (And, like always, the shotguns rock), there is just a certain smoothness, float, and balance that Destiny has.
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
Devil May Cry 5. It's ocean deep and you can basically can improve forever and ever.
 

TacoSupreme

Member
Jul 26, 2019
1,732
Yakuza 5. Every character had a unique, fully-fleshed-out combat style that fit with their design. Some people hated Shinada's fighting style for being less powerful than others, but I never found that to be a problem. Even Haruka's dance-battle stuff worked as a nice side type of gameplay.

Hotline Miami 1+2. Overall 2 had a slightly better feel than 1, but the level design caused some points of contention. Still the best top down 2D game series ever.

CSGO. Perfect time to kill (instant with certain guns, still requires immense skill to dispatch other highly skilled players quickly). Steady balance adjustments have made almost every weapon have its own role (something even CS 1.6 didn't get right). Movement feels rewarding. Learning recoil patterns adds an extra layer of complexity. Strafe canceling feels satisfying. There's a reason why CS is the seemingly unkillable cockroach of eSports.