Not understanding the logic of some people here. So it's not ok to protect whistleblowers when the whistleblowers are people that have shitty takes on things?
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Bernie Sanders pledges to end practice of prosecuting whistleblowers under the Espionage Act. Edward Snowden: "Whoa."
- Thread starter Tracygill
- Start date
these threads are always the fucking same
sanders puts out a great policy and the libs find some weird reason to get mad at it.
sigh.
sanders puts out a great policy and the libs find some weird reason to get mad at it.
sigh.
What you mean to say is "Snowden and Manning were no angels." When the police do this it's "acabc", when the DOD does it, it's "national security."
You know better than to ad-hominem. Personal view and timing are inconsequential to this matter. The government was and continues to do bad things and they deserve to be called out for it and those who are calling them out deserve protection and respect for putting their lives on the line to do it.
I like his support of noted homophobe, Tulsi gabbard, the best.
The actual issue with the policy is that it's a blanket one with no discretion. I would agree that prosecuting Snowden is not good despite him being a gigantic asshole. ("hero" is where I challenged that.) Someone like Manning going and shitting all sorts of stuff out into the open instead of actually whistleblowing on specific behavior is where I would have an issue. Anyone can call themselves a "whistleblower"- whether that's actually what you're doing is another.
It's not an ad hominem, I was specifically objecting to calling Snowden a "hero." I don't think he should be prosecuted.
I am glad Snowden let us know the FBI and local prosecutors were violating our right to due process and privacy.
Using surveillance data and creating fake bread crumbs to prosecute low level drug crimes is just one way Snowden did a service in letting us know crimes our government was committing.
Snowden is a hero who was exiled for his for exposing evil.
Using surveillance data and creating fake bread crumbs to prosecute low level drug crimes is just one way Snowden did a service in letting us know crimes our government was committing.
Snowden is a hero who was exiled for his for exposing evil.
I dont think Snowden can just return just like that. By this point he has given Russia Intel to remain over there.
Anyone else coming forward from now on? Sure.
Anyone else coming forward from now on? Sure.
again, I look at people who say EWarren is the better candidate and progressive and I fucking laugh. Warren isn't progressive.
No one said that. Like, at all.
The logic is that you can protect whistleblowers while also not lionizing shitty people. Bernie's pledge is good. Whistleblowers should be protected. Snowden has shitty views.
None of this is mutually exclusive.
This should be the standard platform of all progressive candidates. Currently, the US will do it's best to hold the likes of Chelsea Manning in prison in perpetuity and it's abhorrent, and is done to discourage further whistleblowers, not punish individuals for their 'crimes'.
Good shit, Bernie.
Good shit, Bernie.
I wouldn't call his refutation of Clinton's baseless allegations "support," unless of course you're referring to something else.
Don't fall for the jingoism. Snowden should be able to return. He only left because of what our country does to people who expose real wrong-doing which makes the powerful uncomfortable.
Snowden is an American citizen. Of course he should be allowed to return.
And Chelsea Manning deserves to be free for good.
Everything be took was handed over to journalists before he landed in Russia.
Snowden is a libertarian. He also took a risk to expose government lies.
Bernie Sanders >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any other candidate ever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any other candidate ever.
Oh, nothing much
Just a few times she's
been photographed
With the most
Progressive candidate
Don't you know? If you're not a capital D Democrat you're automatically a bad guy.
/s
Ah, yep. That'll do it. Shoot, I probably look pretty foolish right now.Oh, nothing much
Just a few times she's
been photographed
With the most
Progressive candidate
The ad hominem attacks against whistleblowers to excuse constitutional violations and warcrimes is honestly repulsive. I cant stand the hypocrisy and apologism of partisan Democrat lapdogs
This really should be a case by case thing but in general I support the idea of it I guess?
Exposing war crimes? Great go for it. Exposing undercover identities risking loss of life? Eh
Exposing war crimes? Great go for it. Exposing undercover identities risking loss of life? Eh
These are of Tulsi supporting Bernie and not the other way around?
He's been stalwartly for LGBT rights for decades at this point and has his hands raised with many Democrats.
I don't know what I think of this either. You have to have a threat of repercussions to keep people from leaking classified willy nilly. In the absence of our ability elect people good enough to smell the difference between whistleblowing and treason though. I think you just need to strengthen legal channels for whistle blowing. Independent bodies to review and sanitize the data. Etc. Etc.
He's been stalwartly for LGBT rights for decades at this point and has his hands raised with many Democrats.
Are you saying that AOC is a homophobe, now? Oh, she isn't? Then it's different when he appears with someone who's not a homophobe then when he does. huh. Funny how different things are different.
Which doesn't mean he should be lionized or called a hero.
As a whistleblower he should be protected, and he should be able to come home. But years later I'm not interested in hearing his political takes when he was talking about how leakers should be shot before changing his tune when a black man became president.
Snowden had no issues with the programs while they were under Dubya. He started getting mad once Obama got elected. He accidentally did a ok thing even though it pretty clearly had an awful motivation. Ron Paul attracts a certain type.
Not really, no. She's a Democrat and has a pro-LGBT voting record, and he's appeared with many Democrats. Saying his voting records/ideas aren;t progressive because he's shared a stage with Tulsi is lolz. And if appearing with someone is cause for concern, then:
The ghost of Rep Cummings has some 'splainin to do.
Not really, no. She's a Democrat and has a pro-LGBT voting record, and if appearing with someone is cause for concern, then:
The ghost of Rep Cummings has some 'splainin to do.
Really? You're counting that as the same as my pictures? We're done here, you're just being disingenuous. Toodles.
Man, it's almost like Snowden donated money and vocalized support for noted homophobe white supremacist and precursor to the modern alt-right movement, Ron Paul, has voiced far-right anti-new deal propaganda, and has a history of similarly problematic behaviour.
But, I guess doing one good thing automatically means people should treat you like a hero, ignore your flaws and stan you forever.
/s
What? Manning's already out?
Though I agree with your main point.
Though I think there's a big difference between Snowden and Manning. Snowden had one thing he knew and exposed it, Manning was like just dumping shit, didn't even know what it all was. I support Snowden, Manning, eh, kinda sorta, some of it did need to come out but I like the process Manning took a lot less.
I'm not really counting your pictures as anything; it's a silly argument to make, and I feel like I'm talking to one of those 17-year-old liberals who has it all figured out, tbqh.
It took him a few years in the intelligence community to actually gain the access he wound up having.
I'm not going to defend some of his dumb tweets or political ideals, but I truly can't see him acting the way he did, shitting his life away, because Obama is black.
I'm pretty sure he didn't accidentally do anything. Keep supporting the prosecution of whistleblowers. It's the only reason we know about the government's illegal surveillance system, it's use to violate the rights of low-level offenders, and the scope of the violations in which it was used to spy on our allies for no legitimate reason.
Human behavior isn't exactly rational.
Snowden 180'd going from Obama to Bush on a whole host of issues, and it's not a stretch to have a good guess at why that might be given his other stances and political allegiances. Had McCain won it's very unlikely we even know his name. I don't support prosecuting Snowden despite his shitty political views.
This is what I laugh at. Yes, she is. What you mean to say is that while she is more progressive than everyone in the field not named Bernie Sanders, she is less progressive than Bernie Sanders. It's not is/isn't. For example, Liz's plan to kill the filibuster is more progressive than Sanders, Buttigieg is more progressive on SCOTUS reform.
That said, good stuff from Bernie, per usual.
I was referring to Manning, who was a whistleblower. So long as someone who gives away that type of information, regardless of intent, get punished then I'm fine with that move. Just being cautious that we don't green light whistleblowers dumping massive amounts of information indiscriminately that could jeopardize identities overseas.
Admittedly I slightly misunderstood the article at first, so what Sanders is doing seems alight as long as the above mentioned is considered.
In all fairness that's for a different charge, she ignored a subpoena.
It's not splitting hairs whatsoever. Manning deserved her original sentence as a mass docu dump isn't whistleblowing, she deserved to be released based off of the military prison system's inability to actually house her while being considerate of her trans status and she deserves her current stint in jail that comes as a result of her refusing to testify as required by her immunity agreement against WikiLeaks and Assange.
She is in jail today because she chose to be, not because she was unfairly punished.
Please learn some basic American political terminology. Liberals or "the libs" is just the generic term used for all broadly left-leaning people. Bernie Sanders' base of liberal and very liberal Americans are "the libs".
sick condescension dog, you're right, I don't know what "the libs" means lol