• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Tracygill

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,853
The Left

Bernie Sanders wants to tax companies where CEOs far outearn workers
  • Senator and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders is proposing a new tax on companies that pay their CEOs at least 50 times more than the typical worker.
  • Sanders said the revenue from the tax would be used to eliminate Americans' medical debt.
  • Income inequality in the U.S. is at its highest level in at least 50 years, Census data show.

Between 1978 and 2018, CEO pay soared 940% — by comparison, over that period most American workers saw their pay rise a total of 12%.

The U.S. company with the biggest gap between its CEO and median employees pay is Tesla, with Elon Musk earning more than 40,000 times what its typical worker takes home in a year, according to a report released Monday by the left-leaning Institute for Policy Studies.

Walmart, a retailer that's often at the center of the debate over worker pay, has a pay gap of 1,076 to 1, the IPS study found. Under Sanders's plan, it would have owed an additional $794 million in federal taxes in 2018.




Bernie Sanders' War With CEOs Making Bank Just Got Real

Sanders new tax plan would punish companies whose chief executive makes 50 times more than the average worker

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has promised voters he can get the wealthy to "pay their fair share" — and today, he rolled out another way to get there.
His campaign is now proposing to boost the corporate tax rate for companies whose chief executives make at least 50 times more than the median employee. It would only apply to businesses that bring in $100 million or more a year, with harsher penalties for wider gaps between the highest- and lowest-earning workers.

The AFL-CIO, the country's largest labor union, estimated last year that a CEO from the average high-earning company makes 287 times more than their median employee. At Amazon for example, CEO Jeff Bezos makes makes an estimated $6.5 billion every month from his salary and stock holdings; 315 times more the median Amazon employee makes in a year, according to Business Insider.




Bernie Sanders Rolls Out Plan To Curb CEO Pay

The Vermont senator would increase taxes on companies where CEOs earn more than 50 times the median worker.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) released an "income inequality tax plan" on Monday that would increase taxes on big companies where CEO pay is more than 50 times higher than that of the median worker.

Sanders, a fierce critic of income inequality who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, identifies the explosion in compensation for top corporate executives as a key factor depressing ordinary workers' wages.




Corporations and America's wealthiest have seen a massive windfall under the Trump administration, which enacted massive corporate tax cuts — from 35 percent to just 21 percent — and reduced the top marginal tax rate. Since Republicans passed their tax cuts, corporations have spent billions buying back their own stock, and giving the riches to shareholders and investors, rather than workers.




But at many companies the inequality Sanders aims to tackle is even more pronounced. According to a new study by the Institute for Policy Studies - which the presidential hopeful cited in his tax plan - there are at least 50 companies where the top executive is taking home more than 1,000 times what workers are making.

"At the 50 publicly traded US corporations with the widest pay gaps in 2018, the typical employee would have to work at least 1,000 years - an entire millennium - to earn what their CEO made in just one," co-authors Sarah Anderson and Sam Pizzigati wrote in the September study.





l1VhXFh.jpg







Tech CEO list

Apple
CEO: Tim Cook
CEO Compensation: $15,682,219
Median pay: $55,426
CEO-to-employee ratio: 283 to 1

AMD
CEO: Dr. Lisa Su
CEO Compensation: $13,356,392
Median pay: $80,931
CEO-to-employee ratio: 165 to 1

Electronic Arts
CEO: Andrew Wilson
CEO Compensation: $18,320,071
Median pay: $91,661
CEO-to-employee ratio: 200 to 1

Intel Corp
Electronic Arts
CEO: Brian Krzanich
CEO Compensation: $21,544,700
Median pay: $102,100
CEO-to-employee ratio: 211 to 1

Nvidia
CEO: Jensen Huang
CEO Compensation: $12,993,532
Median pay: $147,640
CEO-to-employee ratio: 88 to 1

Microsoft Corp.
CEO: Satya Nadella
CEO Compensation: $25,843,263
Median pay: $167,689
CEO-to-employee ratio: 154 to 1

Facebook
CEO: Mark Zuckerberg
CEO Compensation: $22,554,543
Median pay: $228,651
CEO-to-employee ratio: 99 to 1

Netflix
CEO: Reed Hastings
CEO Compensation: $36,080,417
Median pay: $202,335
CEO-to-employee ratio: 178 to 1






Bernie Sanders
@BernieSanders

Americans are sick and tired of corporate CEOs making hundreds of times what their workers make.

Walmart: 1,076 to 1
The Home Depot: 486 to 1
Nike: 379 to 1

We say to corporate America: If you don't end your greed and corruption, we will end it for you.



P.S.
Don't confuse this corporate tax with Bernie Sanders' recent new aggressive progressive personal wealth tax that would tax the wealth of the top 0.1 percent with a tax of up to 8 percent.
This tax on extreme wealth would have a progressive rate structure that would only apply to the wealthiest 180,000 households in America who are in the top 0.1 percent.

It would start with a 1 percent tax on net worth above $32 million for a married couple. That means a married couple with $32.5 million would pay a wealth tax of just $5,000.

The tax rate would increase to 2 percent on net worth from $50 to $250 million, 3 percent from $250 to $500 million, 4 percent from $500 million to $1 billion, 5 percent from $1 to $2.5 billion, 6 percent from $2.5 to $5 billion, 7 percent from $5 to $10 billion, and 8 percent on wealth over $10 billion. These brackets are halved for singles.

Under this plan, the wealth of billionaires would be cut in half over 15 years which would substantially break up the concentration of wealth and power of this small privileged class.

 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
Great idea. Just not happening in the USA as the rich pay who gets in charge.
Or at least what bills pass.

Anyway, maybe i'm too negative... I hope people vote for him. He seems like a guy who knows what makes the USA so sick.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,718
Tokyo
WTF Musk... WTF That is insane.

Am I reading that right, he pays himself over 2 billion a year? His employees median income is only 56k?
 

Lupercal

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,028
I like the initiative and balls on Bernie to propose it but it'll never happen sadly.
Those companies just have to much sway and political might to oppose it.
 

Holden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
110
i'm very economically illiterate, but what about the crafty fuckers that don't take a salary

I mean most, if not all get part of their pay in stocks.
Comparing the salary of a worker to the salary of a CEO is dumb

Unsure how this is calculated as this includes stock for CEOs and the tesla stock hasn't been doing that great
 
Feb 13, 2018
3,842
Japan
I wonder how this will affect people who operate a company alone and are effectively freelancers. I don't know much about that situation aside from that they get taxed like corporations in some states but not in others.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
For everything that can be said about Musk doing terrible things, that Tesla rate feels stupid. It is the stock options Musk can get, and his personal income is currently minimum wage.

Wow median pay at Facebook is over 200k?

Makes sense, they are looking for the best of the best in a sector that is highly paid.
 

Ionic

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,734
I wonder how this will affect people who operate a company alone and are effectively freelancers. I don't know much about that situation aside from that they get taxed like corporations in some states but not in others.

I'm going to assume there's some minimum amount of employees needed for this to take effect. The spirit of the legislation seems to be to hit large companies who don't pay enough tax and who don't pay their workers anywhere close to the proportion which their company makes profits and their CEO's get paid.
 
OP
OP
Tracygill

Tracygill

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,853
The Left
I wonder how this will affect people who operate a company alone and are effectively freelancers. I don't know much about that situation aside from that they get taxed like corporations in some states but not in others.
It would only apply to businesses that bring in $100 million or more a year.

Bloomberg made a website where you can look up the CEO pay ratio of public companies.


Activision Blizzard Inc. has a 319-to-1 CEO pay ratio with a $30,841,004 ceo compensation and $96,726 median compensation.
 

Deleted member 58401

User requested account closure
Banned
Jul 7, 2019
895
This is good, but there's probably a better way to do this that would encourage employers to raise overall wages, not drop one salary rate to avoid a tax. They'd just package value through different perks/forms of payment (golden parachute type perks), dodge the CEO tax, and keep paying the lackeys $10/hr.
 

Critch

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,360
Another week, another impossible plan by Bernie. If his numbers keep dropping, i really think he's going to start breaking out the ponies.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,919
I don't care if they're super rich.

I just want them to pay proper taxes. I'm sick of people like Bezos getting crazy tax breaks for Amazon HQs.

These sweetheart deals for mega-corps just to lure them into cheap real estate to create some local jobs doesn't help the country as a whole. Too much money is being made in a localized effort and not enough of the profits are being taxed to help everyone else.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,262
Makes a lot of sense and a good start but just like the start of this worker/CEO gap in the USA actually started because Bill Clinton tried to do the same thing - tax CEOs who make more than $1m a higher rate - they started paying CEOs in stock to avoid that and it turns out they can make a LOT MORE money with stock than cash, AND you get to deduct all that extra CEO compensation from your actual taxes!!

I'm pretty sure this will lead to all sorts of crazy loopholes to get around it. Off the top of my head, you could instead give CEOs a lot more perks like buy them a house and airplane, fund crazy retirement plans for them, buy them art/sports teams/etc or whatever and call it intangible compensation, on and on.

The irony of that article also just assuming (two months before the election) that Hillary will win and try to fix it. Accountants and lawyers are supremely well versed in figuring out ways to cheat laws.
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,694
Why is it dumb? Why do ceos deserve a 920% wage increase over the past 40 years while we deserve only 12% over the same time frame?

Because most CEO's other high level executives make their money from stock incentives NOT salary. If you only include salary in this equation, they will just start giving out more stocks as compensation. However it looks like Bernie is tying in stock compensation in this calculation.

At first glance this proposal seems very populist... why only target CEO's and not the other people at the top? Going to tie CEO pay to 50x median, I'll just become a CIO or CISO then.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,063
This idea is implausible even if he's elected, but I want income inequality in the conversation nationally from every candidate.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,240
Because most CEO's other high level executives make their money from stock incentives NOT salary. If you only include salary in this equation, they will just start giving out more stocks as compensation. However it looks like Bernie is tying in stock compensation in this calculation.

At first glance this proposal seems very populist... why only target CEO's and not the other people at the top? Going to tie CEO pay to 50x median, I'll just become a CIO or CISO then.

Easy fix: the tax applies if your highest compensated employee breaks the ratio.
 

Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,694
Easy fix: the tax applies if your highest compensated employee breaks the ratio.

Could work. Also need to factor in other compensation such as property, cars, houses, other expensive gifts. I guess my point is this seems kinda half baked at the moment and need to be really careful to examine all the loopholes because we all know they'll find them.
 
OP
OP
Tracygill

Tracygill

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,853
The Left
Another week, another impossible plan by Bernie. If his numbers keep dropping, i really think he's going to start breaking out the ponies.
This corporate tax is reasonable and within the range of moderate solutions to income inequality. Trump and the Republicans lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent in 2017. This tax would bring it back up to 21.5%-26% for certain large corporations. President Barack Obama proposed lowering the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 28 percent in 2012. Amy Klobuchar, a moderate democratic presidential candidate has proposed raising the corporate tax rate from 21% to 25%. This corporate tax increase falls within the historical norms of previous administrations.

 

Duji

Member
Nov 26, 2017
25
Shouldn't the ratio take into account how big the company is eg the number of workers there are in the company? A wider ratio is worse the smaller the company: 300:1 CEO pay is worse for a business with 100 employees versus 1000, all else being equal, no? That's why when I see a massive company like McDonald's on that list I kind of expect it to have a relatively higher ratio than other companies.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
Wow median pay at Facebook is over 200k?

Facebook is one of the best paying companies in FAANG. If you were to restrict to just corporate employees, the median for Amazon would be about 6x the median salary including factory workers. A fresh out of college engineer will make about 120k at Amazon.
 

Bear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,871
Shouldn't this tax be paid out to workers? Or to people more generally? Why make this specific to medical debt? Feel like that alienates a lot of people.
 

2PiR

alt account
Banned
Aug 28, 2019
978
Wow median pay at Facebook is over 200k?

I think the reason for this is very less headcount. FB headquarter is fairly small and far less employees than other giants and yet its so profitable.

i am really surprised with Apple's salary. $57k is far too less but i believe they also count Apple store employees which would definitely bring down the salary average
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
This corporate tax is reasonable and within the range of moderate solutions to income inequality. Trump and the Republicans lowered the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent in 2017. This tax would bring it back up to 21.5%-26% for certain large corporations. President Barack Obama proposed lowering the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 28 percent in 2012. Amy Klobuchar, a moderate democratic presidential candidate has proposed raising the corporate tax rate from 21% to 25%. This corporate tax increase falls within the historical norms of previous administrations.
Is this not mostly to compete with foreign nations that have far lower tax rates? There's a reason why so many U.S. firms have war chests stashed away in Ireland.

I think that's the issue with anything that raises the corporate tax rate. You're just incentivizing firms to move more operations overseas.
 

Hycran

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,494
I'm not fundamentally opposed to something like this, but it makes me wonder what the proper cut off is before a CEO is making "too much". I think reasonable people would agree that as C-suite people are hard to find, take a lot of responsibility on, and have additional liabilities that regular employees don't have that they should get more, but then one might think that certain specialized industries may allow for a bigger "gap" considering the specialized knowledge someone like a CEO may have.

Things like 500 or 1000 to one seem completely inappropriate, but companies like EA or Intel where the median pay is quite high and the ratio is 200-1 honestly doesn't seem that unreasonable.
 

Sampson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
1,196
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory Generalization
Bernie is literally just the left wing Trump.

Inane promises to economically illiterate people that appeal to people that hate the rich instead of foreigners and minorities.
 

kittens

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
I have no clue about the smaller print details and actual logistics, but this sounds damned good in principle.
 

sigma722

Member
Oct 26, 2017
686
Looking at the report - Tesla, is a 2.2 billion dollar stock option given to Elon that would be fully vested if, after a 10 year period the company's market capitalization increases to 650 billion, and is tied to his performance.

That is not the same as a salary of 2.2 billion dollars. I don't even think it's the same as 2.2 billion dollars. As I understand it, stock options allow you to cash out the gains once it is vested, so.. it's like having the profits of 9.9 million shares of tesla after 10 years (original value subtracted out). I feel like you would still need to divide this by the 10 year vesting period to have an accurate idea of what it means in terms of salary. I'm probably making a lot of mistakes here cuz i'm not a money wiz, but I feel like that has to not be an accurate way of describing a salary.
 

turtle553

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,226
While I don't think it's a great idea in general, it should at least be indexed to median wage of full time employees.

Probably would just wind up with companies making lower level employees contractors.
 

jotun?

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,496
WTF Musk... WTF That is insane.

Am I reading that right, he pays himself over 2 billion a year? His employees median income is only 56k?
It's kind of misleading. He doesn't get a normal salary at all. It's tied directly to company performance, and is paid out as stock options upon reaching target goals. If the company does poorly, he could get nothing. He only gets the full amount if Tesla reaches a value of $640bn, which would be insane - double the current most valuable company, Amazon.

"Elon will receive no guaranteed compensation of any kind – no salary, no cash bonuses, and no equity that vests by the passage of time," the company said of the new pay plan in January. "Instead, Elon's only compensation will be a 100% at-risk performance award, which ensures that he will be compensated only if Tesla and all of our stockholders do extraordinarily well."