Reading, but not really caring because it's the same trite desperation-fueled twisting of his stance on class intersectionality with race that the usual folks trot out any time they need to reassure themselves that "Bernie has a problem with idpol"
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Bernie Sanders: Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there
- Thread starter GrapeApes
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Reading, but not really caring because it's the same trite desperation-fueled twisting of his stance on class intersectionality with race that the usual folks trot out any time they need to reassure themselves that "Bernie has a problem with idpol"
Everyone except Bernie and maybe Warren (edit: clarified further down) gets routinely crucified on this forum, sometimes(!) because of ideological differences - which is fine - but increasingly often also because of intentionally misconstrued sound bites and intra-partisanship. This forum is just another echo chamber and it's hurting the bigger cause.
I'm not a US citizen (I'm from Germany) but it is simply sad to see how the US left is constantly villifying and tearing itself down of sheer ignorance, selfishness and short-sightedness. This artificially engineered Bernie/Warren feud was another field day for the right and lots of you have contributed to it.
To those that have fallen to these lows: "Thanks" for four more years of Trump and fu!
The World.
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Since the holiday is approaching, MLK would applaud those positions. Although many well-meaning people don't see it, I see a pattern where we'll celebrate him without celebrating his ideas. MLK was likely a Democratic socialist as he railed against capitalism, he wasn't afraid to talk about poor white people (the system is rigged against them, too), he talked about poor people outside of race, he talked about a universal basic income, and talked about a "radical redistribution" of economic power because one who has no income simply exists. It's more than, "Be nice to black people and make sure they have voting rights." The economy was a huge part of his vision and the vision of civil rights leaders who were inspired by him.
Sanders' positions most closely align with this, but Democrats fall into this thing where there's little vision for the country, plus don't look at people's voting records. I can define what a Republican is; I can't define what a Democrat is because they've been running away from their own shadow and have done little to stem voodoo economics since the 80s. It's embarrassing that the Democratic front-runner doesn't straight-up believe in marijuana legalization and ending the War on Drugs, which have hurt poor people in general and disproportionately hurt minorities. But despite implementing and fighting for policies that have caused this (not simply a bad vote or a vote for a package with good things and bad things, but a prolonged record of this), nobody will look at him or the legions of "centrist" Democrats who helped create this. They'll look at this video instead despite the policies being superior to most, if not all, Democrats' positions in lifting up the poor.
Even then federal dollars disproptionately subsidize red states. They already get more welfare than blue ones. I think Mississipi is particularly ridiculous in that regard. Yet, these voters switched from dem to pub when civil rights were signed. Lemme think about our chances of flipping Mississipi and causes of their support for racist candidates and racist policies.
You don't think it's at all problematic that he's saying the issue with Mississippi in 2012 was the democratic party when the democratic party delivered the smallest margin of loss in decades and that was due to 98% of the black vote going to Democrats?
idk, carrying water for a governor elect who won because of a very blatantly racist campaign, shit on the entire souther primary in 2016 and now defending the white voters in a state that is deep south and has a very ugly history of racism kinda raises some flags but who knows
Because that's the ultimate point of Biden's tripe? It's to massage racists/republican voters into feeling that they're not all bad people and worthy of talking to with democrats. It's the same shit.
He's speaking about Republican voters ("I'm tired of white people voting against their own interest"). It's right there in the damn clip. He's not speaking about troves of untapped non-voting secret progressives. He's directly saying we need to appeal to these republican voters (i.e. reach across the isle)
But sure folks, keep vainly splitting hairs, just because now it's about a candidate you like.
BUT THAT WAS DIFFERENT /s
So...
Bernie : too old, racist, sexist
Warren : too old, culture appropriator, liar
Buttigieg : racist
Biden : too old, creepy, liar, closet republican, no change too far right.
We're screwed I guess?
Bernie : too old, racist, sexist
Warren : too old, culture appropriator, liar
Buttigieg : racist
Biden : too old, creepy, liar, closet republican, no change too far right.
We're screwed I guess?
Correct, these places spontaneously began voting for Democrats all on their own. It's a phenomenon that no one understands and all of the nation's top scientists are desperately racing to understand it.
Okay, at this point the left is crucifying every one of their candidates.
From an outside perspective it looks like all of you Americans on the left are in the process of fucking this up.
I guess since progressive voters in the US tend to behave like stubborn Kindergarteners, the world's hopes really rest on left-leaning centrists and swing-voters ... which is a terrible proposition. But also reality.
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My favorite thing is when progressives get a southern democrat elected in a deep red state like John Bel Edwards in Lousiana people out ot state are ready to cancel him and vote him out when he starts saying dumb shit that got white people to vote for him in the first place.
Because I don't think Sanders is racist.
I think he has a soft spot for white working class people because he sees them as his ticket to success. If he actually believes the shit he is spewing regarding how very clearly racist people aren't racist is anyones guess, I can't speak for that. I can only make educated guesses from what he keeps saying and his comments on the core aspects of the Democratic party, ID-Pol, and the people he keeps trying to defend.
De Santis?
"I think he's a fantastic politician in the best sense of the word," Sanders said of Gillum. "He stuck to his guns in terms of a progressive agenda. I think he ran a great campaign. And he had to take on some of the most blatant and ugly racism that we have seen in many, many years. And yet he came within a whisker of winning."
This is not what's happening.
Sure, but the obnoxiously insistent thread that runs through this particular line of criticism is that he's bad on race (to offer a generous reading of why this is being burped out into the discourse yet again) because he refuses to toss out the intersection of economic austerity with racism, the tossing of which is very dumb). I think there have been times he could have said plenty of things about this better, but I don't think most people taking issue with it are looking to genuinely grapple with the issue at heart and are instead looking for a quick shot of eSerotonin from getting a morsel of "Sanders has views adjacent to racism!!!"
I have great news: none of this is true except kinda the first one
thanks for clarifying; doesn't really make the thrust of the idea any less ridiculous
Framing this and putting it on a wall in the hall of "Dubiously Factual Pathos that Definitely Wins Elections and Affects Change"
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"I think, you know, there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American," Sanders told the Daily Beast. "I think next time around, by the way, it would be much easier for them to do that."
Imagine being uncomfortable voting for a black man and not being racist. It's like Quantum Voting!
90% of the white South, but I'm not surprised to see so many ignoring black Southerners. It's what happened in the 2016 primary too.
Can't help people if they don't want to help themselves.
Racist white people vote against their interests to hurt minorities. If it's not only their racist white trash asses being helped and minorities benefit as well their bigotry prioritizes hurting the other.
Racism is the overriding factor. Above all else.
If your outside perspective doesn't take into account the conundrum of African-Americans, than I couldn't care less.
I'm going to vote for whoever the Dem candidate will be but I can't help but look at our field and wonder why we couldn't do better than this group in 2020. Does no one want this job anymore?
Surely you're gonna correct the rest of the untrue things in that post
Yes, his larger theory of change is that "Economic Anxiety" is a real thing. Which is why it will never work.
The party didn't give up on the WWC, they ran into the arms of segregationist zealots once they found out they had to share.
It's incredible that people repeat the "Dems gave up on these voters" not realizing that's the pretense those voters provided when they ran to the GOP because of the Dems backing Civil Rights. It's "economic anxiety" and a right wing talking point all rolled into one.
Your understanding of this particular issue is probably more thorough than that of an "outsider" like me. But what I see is constant and increasing(!) infighting on the left which will likely lead to the catastrophe that is four more years of Trump.
You've got to get your shit together and stop tearing each other('s candidate) down.
Please.
None of the Democrat candidates are perfect and sometimes some of them will say something stupid. But they are all good people. Keep that in mind.
(My preferred candidate would be Warren if I was a US citizen but even she made a couple of missteps)
This is the primary. The part where we get our shit together is the general election. Being skeptical about a nominee who has coddled white voters who didn't vote for black candidates because of their race is a legitimate cause for concern for many black people.
I'm not so sure about that. Some people hold grudges - be it candidates or voters. Extreme and toxic partisanship within the party could absolutely hurt the candidate in the general election.
Keep the damage to a minimum and remind yourself from time to time that these are all good people.
I think our description of downplaying racism is very different buddy.....
This isn't any more damaging than all the things Sanders said in 2016, this is just a continuation of them that's going to make people not willing to switch to him because he's not showing any growth.
Yeah, I responded to this above. "carrying water for" was just a weird framing so I didn't know that's what you were referring to. Sanders was a huge Gillam supporter and called the De Santis campaign exactly what it was. His attempt afterwards to shuffle the deck so that they could win those votes next time was bullshit, though.
This, however, isn't. But... I mean no one will be persuaded here.
closing one's eyes and falling into the comforting embrace of "but the RIGHT?!?" any time the notion that the modern democrats are governing like ass rears its head is very much peak liberalism comedy, but also frighteningly bad for winning elections so it's a wash I guess
I know a candidate who did just such a thing on a somewhat prolific scale for a certain bitter opponent! Let's hope the folks in this race are willing to do the same when the primaries are over this time
Believing that racism fundamentally stems from class issues isn't "only on their terms", it's refusing to acknowledge the fundamental reality of the world in which they're completely separate but intertwined issues where the racism part is the dominant one.
They are. Some more, some less. But they are.
I'm glad people are not falling for Bloomberg's pathetic buy-in but even he will likely support the candidate against Trump in the general election.
Okay, the obvious exception here is Gabbard who should just fuck off to her inevitable Fox News job where she belongs.
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I agree. Especially when the attacks continue into the general election as campaign staffer David Sirota did and probably will do again.
Look at Beto O'Rourke to see what a Democrat should do after losing a primary - he is campaigning for other Democrats across Texas constantly.
Welp. He probably only closed the gap because of black voters. They don't count, gotta coddle some racists.
User Banned (3 Days): Drive by trolling
Why would anyone be upset?
The point isn't "White people in Mississippi hate the left".
The point is "When voting, white people in mississippi vote 90% for the right, and 10% for the left.
That means there's a distinctive difference between the two, and "how well working-class people have been faring under relative administrations" ain't it, chief.
Who would be better for this job?
The field is and was FILLED with qualified candidates.
I don't know how you can say this whilst ignoring the fact that people in Mississippi vote for their own representatives who contribute to the effort of stopping any progressive legislation from passing, and who also do their best to limit the effects of positive legislation which does pass. The rejection of Medicaid expansion in that state is a pretty big example of this.
We can't keep talking for voters in places like this and ignoring what they actually want.
Sadly, it will never stop happening, because the reason it persists is that people actively want to believe things like "class is the root of everything" and "if the dems only TRIED harder they'd be able to win in places like this" as they are simply unwilling to acknowledge the fundamental reality in which they live as it's a wildly less pleasant narrative.