User Banned (2 Weeks): Personal Insults, History of Similar
Not the first time your type's been bound and determined to ignore black folks calling out racism. Not surprised.
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Bernie Sanders: Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there
- Thread starter GrapeApes
- Start date
There is no hidden group of class based voters, this is a dumb fantasy. I'd sooner believe in elves
I look at it like Texas, which has been "flipping" to blue for 20 years now. You can't count on demographics to turn a state blue if you don't actually go out and court those demographics. George Bush swept up a hell of a lot of the Latinx community in Texas because he appealed to religion and family values and the Dems just let him come in and do that. Likewise, you can't count on white demographics necessarily keeping a state red because they're white; you can chip away at them even if you know it's not going to matter for the next 5 or 6 election cycles.
BECAUSE MOST OF US DON'T FUCKING APPRECIATE WHITE PEOPLE SAYING OTHER RACIST WHITE PEOPLE AREN'T FUCKING RACIST!
I do hope that was a clear enough point for you to understand.
he only said he doesnt believe 90% of the voters are racists that there's potential voters in that demography that democratic party could bring to vote for them, there's a leap of logic to pandering to racists/racism, since he didnt excused anyone racism in this statement, unless 90% of the white population is indeed racist, also that doesnt mean he's ignoring the problems of the black community in the south of US with this argument.
i think people are over-analyzing and over-reacting his statements and reaching for a bad meaning of his words to a clear purpose of political attack to frame bernie as racist.
i think people are over-analyzing and over-reacting his statements and reaching for a bad meaning of his words to a clear purpose of political attack to frame bernie as racist.
Texas is not flipping blue due to old white voters becoming democratic though.
Right, it's not flipping at all because despite demographic shifts to more young hispanic and Latinx voters, not enough progressives are coming in to seal the deal on their political affiliations. People are just assuming that minority = democratic voter, and we can't do that, or its inverse, if gains are going to be made.
you know that Texas is going blue because of people from blue states moving in to the big blue cities cause of job growth and the natural growth of minority groups (mainly Hispanic)
not Democrats getting GOP voters?
It really isn't hard to understand. I am baffled at any confusion.
But it is flipping. Beto made a lot of inroads in the state and got relatively close to winning and a lot of house seats flipped.
I've never been to Mississippi. Would you say it's accurate that 90% of whites there are racist? Like, so racist that they're single issue voters for racism? And if that were true, is it not still worth trying to change their minds on it by offering a platform that works for all poor and working class people? It wouldn't be very effective to call them all racist while trying to lead them away from racism.
No. There's all sorts of polling implying that Sander's policy positions aren't the most popular when it's broken down and explained, but putting that aside, to get to the point, I'm implying that thinking that the reason, let's say, a WWC voter goes from 2 x Obama -> Trump has nothing to do with policy and then thinking that they're voting for Bernie for policy is indicative of a bias.
Now, what do I think motivates these voters? Just messaging of shaking it up. Simply an appearance of being a not average politician. It's why literally every politician criticizes Washington, says they're not the usual politician. Bernie sells that well. It isn't about policy because when it's broken down, for example, Bernie's top ticket item M4A is not the most popular healthcare proposal by faaaaaaaaaaarrrr and its popularity decreases the more voters know about it.
why does trying to increase the share of white voters = reach out to republican voters
liberal capitalism, instead of eliminating racism has merely subsumed it and ensconced it within the elite and the periphery. Any chance of a brighter future is eventually gonna depend on building new democratic coalitions with the energy to force through critical reforms.
you don't go up to people and read them Marx but yes, a lot of people will change their behavior based on their economic interest. The US averages between around 53-58% turnout. There are tens of millions of people who don't vote, there are to thousands of Obama - Obama - Trump voters.
liberal capitalism, instead of eliminating racism has merely subsumed it and ensconced it within the elite and the periphery. Any chance of a brighter future is eventually gonna depend on building new democratic coalitions with the energy to force through critical reforms.
It's not like the Mississippi democrats have been twiddling their thumbs this entire time and not offering solutions for the poor and working class people.
There's a term for non-white folks taking up for racist white folks, breh.
"We could do politics in a way that white people would not be so swayed by their baser instincts to go for the racist option in SUCH large numbers" doesn't seem particularly inflammatory, to me.
The "economic anxiety" catchphrase has always been an incomplete straw man of the Leftist position, which is that material conditions create population-wide probability spaces where people, as a group, are more or less likely to embrace racism, xenophobia, and other bigotries as explanatory heuristics for a more generalized, subliminal sense of the relative health of a society's present state of being, and its trajectory. Good work can be done on the individual level to hold people accountable for their shitty views, to deradicalize them, but in the absence of a political program that genuinely cuts through the sense that things are "wrong", that something is broken that needs to be fixed, it's incredibly hard to prevent the dark side of human cognition from asserting itself en masse.
Socialism won't fix prejudice overnight, perhaps not ever. But it can do a lot to make it harder for those who hold such views to keep replenishing their numbers, to make Right-wing radicalism seem like a compelling solution to what ails us a people.
The "economic anxiety" catchphrase has always been an incomplete straw man of the Leftist position, which is that material conditions create population-wide probability spaces where people, as a group, are more or less likely to embrace racism, xenophobia, and other bigotries as explanatory heuristics for a more generalized, subliminal sense of the relative health of a society's present state of being, and its trajectory. Good work can be done on the individual level to hold people accountable for their shitty views, to deradicalize them, but in the absence of a political program that genuinely cuts through the sense that things are "wrong", that something is broken that needs to be fixed, it's incredibly hard to prevent the dark side of human cognition from asserting itself en masse.
Socialism won't fix prejudice overnight, perhaps not ever. But it can do a lot to make it harder for those who hold such views to keep replenishing their numbers, to make Right-wing radicalism seem like a compelling solution to what ails us a people.
I appreciate you and share your frustration.
The Democratic platform this year will include some form of universal healthcare, boosts to welfare programs, and support for unions. You know, the things it always includes because we stand for them.
White people in MS will still vote 90% Republican. Democrats will still lose the white vote.
Why do you think we're losing them? How do we appeal to them?
this is a state that did not abolish slavery officially until 2013. This is a state that numerous times has voted in politicians using racial slurs over politicians wanting to explain Medicaid and Medicare. This is a state that's so racist most people from other southern states call it racist.
Yeah, no. That's not OK. Prodigal was basically just trolling a bit to make a point that you can't prove that 90% plus white people in Mississipi are racist through just anecdotes, and that saying 90% is not is just as valid as saying 90%+ are. Now, I can disagree with that, and I get disagreeing with that, but that's not called for.
Why are so many people posting like they think that Bernie not saying that they aren't racist is the same as calling them racist. He could have simply not said "90% of white people in Mississippi are not racist."
That way he wouldn't have been calling them racist or been giving racists cover for their racism.
That way he wouldn't have been calling them racist or been giving racists cover for their racism.
This is exactly what I've been saying. There was no need for him to even make that statement.
Nah.
I ain't sittin' here as a man whose family is from Mississippi, who spent every summer of his life growing up in Mississippi, who spent 5 full years living in Mississippi, to have someone don't know shit about shit in Mississippi run his mouth in defense of the racist ass white population of that state in the face of everyone who lived there saying that 90% number is low balling it.
Fuck that.
Rationalizing the number of people who don't vote as being because they're secret socialists is nonsense, it's impossible that trend like that could exist in such high number and nobody would know.
It's simply the realm of fantasy
I don't know what can specifically be done to appeal to them. I haven't met with or spoken to people from Mississippi; I don't have an idea of their needs and concerns but i have an excuse as I'm not running for President not am I a Democratic operative. If politicians running for President of the country don't have an idea as to how to appeal Mississippians than that's actually a problem
Because Bernie sees everything though a socio-economic lens, and any kind of racial justice is a side effect of economic justice.
Well I figured it was more closer to 80%. Since he capped himself at 70% that's not being overly generous.
It's completely understandable why so many black people are tired of discussing race with Bernie supporters. There's a reason why people meme'd "But Bernie helped out with civil rights." It is because it is so shocking that he continues to stumble around race related conversation. And many view this same group of supporters as those who would drag other candidates through hot coal for similar statements or outreach.
I see nothing wrong with that previous exchange.
I agree on the notion that the idea that a state isn't winnable becomes a foregone conclusion. I don't agree with his statement about 90% of the people being not racist because not all racism is implicit bias or expressed on an individual level. So much racism is baked into American history and policy that we can't talk about it solely as individual moral failings. I think the messaging here is so simplified as to be meaningless.
Hey, this post is a fairer response (that I agree with) than thinking they're being an uncle tom for being obtuse with technicalities. Prodigal's point is that it might be 89.999% because you don't know for sure, and in that case Bernie would be right, which is pedantic, to be sure.
This was my thought while watching that. It's still a bad look since we are talking about the state the most resistant to desegregation all the way up to the aughts.
I'd need to see the polling data you're referring to since I've seen a lot of policy polls that do a poor job of explaining Sanders' M4A plan to the people being polled. And polling data still shows that he's still considered the best on Medicare out of all the candidates in polls that don't explain the actual platform. It probably doesn't matter much anyway since the majority of voters aren't going to know the details of any medicare plan when they go out to vote.
which is a really bad blind-spot cause he's basically ignoring how social programs came to be dismantled even though it's history he himself lived through but chooses to ignore cause it didn't affect him since he was white(white in the context of social programs and race) and living in a super white state in the northeast as these programs were being dismantled in the south due to racism.
But it is flipping.
Here's the Democratic vote share over the pas 20 years of presidental and midterm elections:
2000: 37.98%
2002: 43.89%
2004: 38.22%
2006: 44.30%
2008: 43.68%
2010: 30.60%
2012: 41.38%
2014: 33.10%
2016: 43.24%
2018: 47.00%
In 20 years the share of the Democrat vote in Texas has increased by 10% with the majority of that growth coming from new Texas residents, Mexicans, and younger generations (Millennials & Gen Z).
"These people can't be racist, so it's clearly the Democrats' fault for not giving them what they won't vote for."
Anything to blame Democrats and make Bernie look good, I guess.
Sanders wasn't being pendantic. He said the democrats could gain 20%, 25%, 30% of the white vote.
I was looking at Mississippi for months and also drew the conclusion if you could get 20% of the white vote you could flip the state. It's not an insurmountable percentage.
Should I open the thread about Biden saying he would """""""consider""""""" a republican running mate to avoid calling them all trash as an election technique and cross reference the posters that didn't understand the "most basic of political realities" in that thread versus the ones who suddenly understand them in this thread?
Seriously asking....
Also fun facts for dem exit polling of white voters in Mississippi and election outcomes.
2016 Hillary: missing exit poll data, lost by 17.8%
2012 Barack: 10%, lost by 11.5%
2008 Barack: 11%, lost by 13.2%
2004 John: 14%, lost by 19.6%
2000 Al: 17%, lost by 16.9%
1996 Bill: 24%, lost by 5.1%
1992 Bill: 20%, lost by 8.9%
Getting to 25% percent of the white vote looks like historically Bernie would lose by 4% in Mississippi. If he maintained the black vote to the degree of Obama then maybe he could flip it. However, even that is probably unlikely as Clinton had 95% of the black vote according to the 1996 exit polls. So if this is hoping to be touted as a valid strategy, you better shoot for better than 25%.
Edited: Kerry's totals. Realized i was looking at the wrong line from other's responses.
2016 Hillary: missing exit poll data, lost by 17.8%
2012 Barack: 10%, lost by 11.5%
2008 Barack: 11%, lost by 13.2%
2004 John: 14%, lost by 19.6%
2000 Al: 17%, lost by 16.9%
1996 Bill: 24%, lost by 5.1%
1992 Bill: 20%, lost by 8.9%
Getting to 25% percent of the white vote looks like historically Bernie would lose by 4% in Mississippi. If he maintained the black vote to the degree of Obama then maybe he could flip it. However, even that is probably unlikely as Clinton had 95% of the black vote according to the 1996 exit polls. So if this is hoping to be touted as a valid strategy, you better shoot for better than 25%.
Edited: Kerry's totals. Realized i was looking at the wrong line from other's responses.
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Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi AFTER the passing of ACA which gave everyone, including Mississippians, a quality of life improvement (assuming a Republican state did not block the implementation).
It is disingenuous to claim Democrats like Obama don't try to do enough for working class white, when they sacrificed their positions in the House and Senate to give all Americans healthcare.
It also a back handed insult to the black democrats in the state that their efforts to bring about change in their own state is not good enough. Bernie needs to do better wit his words.
The reason Biden and Hillary had/have done well among black voters is because they have over their careers put time and effort into black communities. They have made mistakes and own up to them. And they continue to improve.
Bernie marched with MLK and then went to live in Vermont. It hard to keep in contact plight of other races across the land when living in a state with 95% whites, and 1.5% blacks. It is his weaken; Sanders frames everything as a class issue, because race issues only apply to 5% of Vermont.
His heart is right place, but he needs to expand his actual plans to include racist is highly entangled with classicism in America. He should not constantly be railing against Democrats- the party overwhelming support by black Americas as a failure. It is tone deaf for someone like him who believes in equality.
It is disingenuous to claim Democrats like Obama don't try to do enough for working class white, when they sacrificed their positions in the House and Senate to give all Americans healthcare.
It also a back handed insult to the black democrats in the state that their efforts to bring about change in their own state is not good enough. Bernie needs to do better wit his words.
The reason Biden and Hillary had/have done well among black voters is because they have over their careers put time and effort into black communities. They have made mistakes and own up to them. And they continue to improve.
Bernie marched with MLK and then went to live in Vermont. It hard to keep in contact plight of other races across the land when living in a state with 95% whites, and 1.5% blacks. It is his weaken; Sanders frames everything as a class issue, because race issues only apply to 5% of Vermont.
His heart is right place, but he needs to expand his actual plans to include racist is highly entangled with classicism in America. He should not constantly be railing against Democrats- the party overwhelming support by black Americas as a failure. It is tone deaf for someone like him who believes in equality.
