Bernie Sanders: Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there

Volimar · Jan 19, 2020

This is one of the few problems I have with Bernie and I think it demonstrates a personal reluctance on his part. He has no problem calling out racist institutions (and Trump's racism) and systems, but he seems to shy away from calling people racist. As has been posted earlier, he's been criticized for it before. Actually, not even not calling people racist, but assuring racists that they are not racist.

CharlesAznable said:
Thank you. Bernie is my top pick as well, but having these convos with his supporters are like picking teeth. Sanders supporter downplay the racial aspect waaay too fucking much and overplay the class issue way too fucking much.

This too. Never forget "low information voters" talking points.

jviggy43 · Jan 19, 2020

Armaros said:
So pandering to racists is not ignoring or excusing their racism?

How is this pandering?

Deleted member 31923 · Jan 19, 2020

"90 percent of the white people in Mississippi are not racist."

Narrator: they are.

Autodidact · Jan 19, 2020

V_Arnold said:
If you lack the fundamental understanding that this is a class struggle, you are unable to process information like the one posted on the OP.
Do you think that people are fundamentally unable to change? Then you have a worldview that have not gone past the 1700's, and even then, changes in personality and behiour was an everyday occurence (of course it was).

[A certain group of people is beyond saving] is exactly the slogen that was used to justify slavery, nationalistic regimes attacking others without agression from the other side, it has fueled countless genocides through history.

To pull this back to the context of Mississipi: if you consider yourself a "progressive" and also happens to think that a whole state should either be ignored (or worse), you are not dealing with the problem in any practical sense of the word. Bernie, for example, champions programs that would help the working class. That would mean helping the racist part of the working class too. And that is okay.

If you think that it is not okay, universal programs are no longer things that you think are worth striving for. Universal healthcare? Firefighters coming to you when your house is on fire? Free education? These are programs that help everyone in the country.

You cannot look at this through the state of race alone(!), and even if you do, you need to do a serious amount of mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that the powerful and elite class have, have enacted racist policies again and again that disproportionally hurt blacks because they were the most vulnerable economically and socially. Dismantling the social gap between the powerful and the working class is something that is in the best interest of anyone who is not part of the elite or the managerial class, regardless of what outdated, harmful, and outright criminal views they might have of each other.

The alternative is: ignoring many states, taking losses and keeping up the divide and conquer that plays to the hands of the elite. And that is exactly what was tried in 2016, and it gave the US Trump.

I raise you Dr. Angelou's "When people show you who they are, believe them." When people have consistently voted for a party that uses racist dog whistles (now foghorns), opposes abortion and LGBT rights, and takes food from poor children's mouths, you get a pretty good idea of their character. They are deplorable. We should not try to appeal to them. We should be honest about why they will not vote for us: they resent Democrats for helping women, minorities, and LGBT people.

Also, kindly tell me how your mind translated "fuck racists; we shouldn't appeal to them" to "fuck universal programs; we shouldn't try to help everyone." Of course we should pass good policy, which will help these people by virtue of its universality. But we should never tailor our approach to them, and we should admit the truth about them. Sanders, who has excused white people for being "uncomfortable" with black candidates, consistently fails in this regard.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Jan 19, 2020

Bernie is pandering and lying here like every single politician.

It's just annoying when his cult fans destroy other politicians for similar comments.

gogosox82 · Jan 19, 2020

Armaros said:
So pretend racism doesn't come into play?

No. But you drag them along kicking and screaming regardless. Once they realize they realize how beneficial a strong social safety net is, they won't want to get rid of it (ie social security, aca, medicare, etc)

Betty · Jan 19, 2020

Volimar said:
This is one of the few problems I have with Bernie and I think it demonstrates a personal reluctance on his part. He has no problem calling out racist institutions (and Trump's racism) and systems, but he seems to shy away from calling people racist. As has been posted earlier, he's been criticized for it before.

If he calls Mississippi racist then it is the same as giving up the state.

Doctoglethorpe · Jan 19, 2020

Googleplex said:
Bernie says something stupid, ignorant and divorced from reality but it's our fault? And people taking him to task it just us "Hating"

Did I time travel back to 2016?

Ah yes. Stupid, ignorant, unrealistic voter outreach. I get it.

Autodidact · Jan 19, 2020

gogosox82 said:
No. But you drag them along kicking and screaming regardless. Once they realize they realize how beneficial a strong social safety net is, they won't want to get rid of it (ie social security, aca, medicare, etc)

They'll want to get rid of it for people of color. That's been their objective ever since Reagan started the "welfare queen" myth.

ItIsOkBro · Jan 19, 2020

jviggy43 said:
Again, who said that?

bernie did

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Jan 19, 2020

Me when the candidates that aren't my favorite candidate lie and say bigots can be won over with money: Wow, this is disgusting.

Me when my favorite candidate lies and says bigots can be won over with money: This is political savvy.

Kill Jester · Jan 19, 2020

Damn. It's crazy how much better Bernie is than every other candidate.

The Adder · Jan 19, 2020

"Fuck Biden, doesn't he know trying to reach out to Republicans with a conscience is useless, even though we literally took the house in 2018 by peeling off Republican voters in the suburbs?"

"How dare you criticize Bernie Sanders for molly coddling racist white Republican voters. Don't you know our only hope is reaching out to them in solidarity? Of course he has to keep saying racist voters aren't really racist!"

Armaros · Jan 19, 2020

Doctoglethorpe said:
Ah yes. Stupid, ignorant, unrealistic voter outreach. I get it.

So Biden talking about working with republicans should be fine then?

that's also voter outreach.

wait a minute.

or are you imagining that the 90% of whites that didn't vote for Obama are just temporarily embrassed Democrats that will come back if Bernie makes a play for them.

jviggy43 · Jan 19, 2020

ItIsOkBro said:
bernie did

No, he didn't.

CharlesAznable · Jan 19, 2020

Betty said:
If he calls Mississippi racist then it is the same as giving up the state.

Giving up a state the Dems have not won since 1976? The horror...

gogosox82 · Jan 19, 2020

Autodidact said:
They'll want to get rid of it for people of color. That's been their objective ever since Reagan started the "welfare queen" myth.

True but that's why its important to streghtnen them not just implement them so that they cannot do that. If its done on the federal level there will be a mandate to give everyone access so it can't be given to certain people, it will have to be given to anyone and everyone who wants to use the programs.

mugurumakensei · Jan 19, 2020

gogosox82 said:
No. But you drag them along kicking and screaming regardless. Once they realize they realize how beneficial a strong social safety net is, they won't want to get rid of it (ie social security, aca, medicare, etc)

except racism is literally how each of those programs starting to get dismantled. See "welfare queens".

Slayven · Jan 19, 2020

V_Arnold said:
If you lack the fundamental understanding that this is a class struggle, you are unable to process information like the one posted on the OP.
Do you think that people are fundamentally unable to change? Then you have a worldview that have not gone past the 1700's, and even then, changes in personality and behiour was an everyday occurence (of course it was).

[A certain group of people is beyond saving] is exactly the slogen that was used to justify slavery, nationalistic regimes attacking others without agression from the other side, it has fueled countless genocides through history.

To pull this back to the context of Mississipi: if you consider yourself a "progressive" and also happens to think that a whole state should either be ignored (or worse), you are not dealing with the problem in any practical sense of the word. Bernie, for example, champions programs that would help the working class. That would mean helping the racist part of the working class too. And that is okay.

If you think that it is not okay, universal programs are no longer things that you think are worth striving for. Universal healthcare? Firefighters coming to you when your house is on fire? Free education? These are programs that help everyone in the country.

You cannot look at this through the state of race alone(!), and even if you do, you need to do a serious amount of mental gymnastics to ignore the fact that the powerful and elite class have, have enacted racist policies again and again that disproportionally hurt blacks because they were the most vulnerable economically and socially. Dismantling the social gap between the powerful and the working class is something that is in the best interest of anyone who is not part of the elite or the managerial class, regardless of what outdated, harmful, and outright criminal views they might have of each other.

The alternative is: ignoring many states, taking losses and keeping up the divide and conquer that plays to the hands of the elite. And that is exactly what was tried in 2016, and it gave the US Trump.

You can not remove race from the equation in america, to do so means you are starting from a place of willful ignornance. Even for the south Miss was above and behind in atrocities during the civil rights movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Chaney,_Goodman,_and_Schwerner

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers

Foffy · Jan 19, 2020

onadesertedisland said:
The poor white will never align to anything that gives the 'other' equal standing. It's all they have left of supremacy. It's fundamental to how the republicans have a stranglehold on that demographic.

This is one of the successes the Republicans have made, and I think for a great deal of us, it's hard to admit that they've essentially conditioned these people so long as they draw breath; you can warm them up to concepts like dignity and compassion, but when push comes to shove, if these white people have to be arm and arm with a black person, that's too alien for them to adhere to. Similarly to how the conservative movement was able to propagandize welfare as a primarily non-white "service," to people hoodwinked into these beliefs, there's just about nothing one can do to convince them to change or see things differently.

The issue is that the problem of precarity does overlap with racism, but that is also to say that racists exist. Bernie's seemingly trying to argue it's in these precarious situations you can condition one to be racist - racism is a form of conditioning - but I think he's also trying to act that we can decondition these people, and that, I'm unsure of. The comfort of white man's misery is still more worthwhile in the hearts of some of these people than solidarity with the suffering of minorities, let alone alleviating their suffering too.

The unifying of the poor white and black could lead to a potential paradigm shift if it can be done. It's timely to say, but this was MLK's last living mission before he was assassinated. One can argue trying to do so is what got him killed.

Betty · Jan 19, 2020

CharlesAznable said:
Giving up a state the Dems have not won since 1976? The horror...

More than that it would become his "deplorables" moment and it would hound him throughout the race.

Googleplex · Jan 19, 2020

Doctoglethorpe said:
Ah yes. Stupid, ignorant, unrealistic voter outreach. I get it.

Hey you and your ignorant wing of the left just continue to shit on black folk and their day-to-day life experiences in that name of that voter outreach. Let just see how far you get without us.

Jesus fucking Christ...

Tukarrs · Jan 19, 2020

Steel said:
Frankly it's a waste of time and resources. By the time Missipissippi is in play at a national level the Republicans will have long since stopped existing as a party.

Well, I think it's a question of how you start to de-radicalize people.
Someone has to try. Someone has to start making changes or changes won't happen.

It's about supplanting one ideology with another. Class solidarity over racial solidarity. It's about giving them a theory that explains that the causes of their misery and suffering comes from a hypercapitalistic structure that places profits over human dignity. One that replaces the idea that their problems come from black people, Muslims, immigrants, or Mexicans.

NoblesseOblige · Jan 19, 2020

It's probably more than 90%

loquaciousJenny · Jan 19, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Bernie is pandering and lying here like every single politician.

It's just annoying when his cult fans destroy other politicians for similar comments.

Straight up if Biden had said this y'all would be going ballistic but when Bernie does it we fasten our monocles and lecture everybody about how Bernie sees things in class and people change unlike your 1700s mentality

CharlesAznable · Jan 19, 2020

Betty said:
More than that it would become his "deplorables" moment and it would hound him throughout the race.

Or he could've simply, not tried to white wash the state's racism? The entire statement was completely unnecessary.

seat · Jan 19, 2020

Geesh, Bernie. Why didn't you call an entire state racist to completely tank your campaign for president? That doesn't fit what I want!

Dream Machine · Jan 19, 2020

Autodidact said:
The working class as a whole has never stopped voting Democratic; people with the lowest incomes - largely PoC, because class is racialized and those workers face systemic barriers - supported Hillary by large margins. Only one segment of the working class, the white portion, votes for the party that wants to cut billionaires' taxes and decimate welfare programs. Why? Because they're racist; they value their status and supremacy above all else; they'll willingly hurt themselves if PoC have it worse. Republicans give them the racism. It's what they vote on and have voted on for over half a century.

So when people say "Demorats have to appeal to the working class!!!!" it's borderline ignorant and offensive because they won't say what they really mean.

It's weird how once the democratic party started transitioning away from the working class and workers rights, and started focusing on the affluent PMCs, they lost all of the workers that aren't as vulnerable and desperate as the PoCs. People of color's votes are taken for granted because dems aren't as bad as republicans. Dems don't earn their votes because they appeal to them as members of the working class. They appeal to them by saying "those other guys want to target you and your rights based on your identity and make things worse, and we want to keep the current bad system the same. Or at least make it worse more slowly than them. Take your pick".

And the huge, varied group of the working class that doesn't vote because they rightly perceive that most politicians don't care about them or their rights? Should they be ignored, or energized and appealed to? Or should we just fight over shrinking sub-divided voting demographics by moving to the right and losing anyway?

excelsiorlef · Jan 19, 2020

So how long until Democrats haven't won the white vote since Barry Goldwater was the Republican nominee becomes: look at how the Democrats have failed the white voters for half a century?

The Adder · Jan 19, 2020

Betty said:
More than that it would become his "deplorables" moment and it would hound him throughout the race.

He's not in Misssissippi. He doesn't have to say shit about Misssissippi. Sanders is choosing to repeatedly bring up how racist white Republican voters aren't actually racist. It's not something he's being forced to do.

Autodidact · Jan 19, 2020

gogosox82 said:
True but that's why its important to streghtnen them not just implement them so that they cannot do that. If its done on the federal level there will be a mandate to give everyone access so it can't be given to certain people, it will have to be given to anyone and everyone who wants to use the programs.

Yes, dear, and what do you think every Democrat running wants to do?

Hint: expanding, implementing, and fortifying universal programs is a big part of it!

We can want universal programs while acknowledging that bigots resent PoC benefiting from them and want to kill them for that reason... and also won't vote for us for that reason.

Prodigal Son · Jan 19, 2020

Vincent Alexander said:
I mean...we really don't think 90% are racist, right?

i feel like no one honestly does. but this isn't a 'hill worth dying on' as someone in this thread has almost definitely said at some point

The Adder · Jan 19, 2020

Dream Machine said:
It's weird how once the democratic party started transitioning away from the working class and workers rights

Ahistoric bullshit.

Schreckweg 5000 · Jan 19, 2020

Vincent Alexander said:
I mean...we really don't think 90% are racist, right?

Racism isn't exclusively carried by white hoodies doing terror attacks. The support of a racist system just needs tolerance of injustice.

V_Arnold · Jan 19, 2020

Slayven said:
You can not remove race from the equation in america, to do so means you are starting from a place of willful ignornance. Even for the south Miss was above and behind in atrocities during the civil rights movement.

Thanks for the links. Just a small point to add: I am not suggesting to ignore race. I am suggesting to work in a context that is workable and which contains race AND class and every other power struggles (sexual identity, gender roles, unpaid labor, discrimination, etc.) Labelling a whole state as lost is not helpful without an alternative provided.

Feep · Jan 19, 2020

As usual, Bernie fights my best efforts to try and really like him. I believe he comes from a good place on this stuff, but his lack of eloquence on racial issues can really hurt him.

bye · Jan 19, 2020

TheGreatDirector said:
Too bad the 1 percent, Wall Street, and Silicom Valley is just as, if not more racist than those uneducated racists. And they literally have the resources to widen their world view.

I don't think thats true. Yes racism is at all levels of society, it probably always will be, but the most dangerous racists are the ones that keep voting for Republicans. I don't think doing nothing about this is the solution

excelsiorlef · Jan 19, 2020

Reminder dude outright said not voting for a black person specifically because they're black isn't neccesarily racist.

Sanders has an incredible ability to say stupid garbage that completely betrays his personal politics. It's oddly fascinating and infinitely frustrating. Especially because people will flock to explain how actually what he said is smart and not stupid at all.

The Adder · Jan 19, 2020

Prodigal Son said:
i feel like no one honestly does. but this isn't a 'hill worth dying on' as someone in this thread has almost definitely said at some point

It's funny how all the people in this topic who have ACTUALLY LIVED IN FUCKING MISSSISSIPPI, a state that only officially abolished slavery in 2013, keep saying that 90% is lowballing it, but people like you keep ignoring it.

Particle Physicist · Jan 19, 2020

The Adder said:
Funny how "the working class" only ever includes white people in these onversations.

Black people aren't working class to some.

Slayven · Jan 19, 2020

V_Arnold said:
Thanks for the links. Just a small point to add: I am not suggesting to ignore race. I am suggesting to work in a context that is workable and which contains race AND class and every other power struggles (sexual identity, gender roles, unpaid labor, discrimination, etc.) Labelling a whole state as lost is not helpful without an alternative provided.

I suggest you read up more on the south, especially reconstruction, and the civil rights movement. Filling in your gaps of context would explain why people feel the way they do

Doctoglethorpe · Jan 19, 2020

Armaros said:
So Biden talking about working with republicans should be fine then?

that's also voter outreach.

wait a minute.

or are you imagining that the 90% of whites that didn't vote for Obama are just temporarily embrassed Democrats that will come back if Bernie makes a play for them.

Jesus.

Theres a huge difference between actively endorsing and pushing republican political agenda and trying to convert republican voters by popping their insulated bubbles and welcoming them to reality.

And he said maybe 30% instead of 10, not that we gonna win over fucking everybody.

Do y'all seriously believe 90% of the state is aggressively racist and completely unredeemable? Maybe that many are ignorantly, low key racist. I'd say that's probably true for the entire country. It's hard to be white in America and not have at least a little bit of subconscious racism. But most racist people are not nazis. They are not unredeemably racist. And if you want to end racism, you can't completely ostracize those people. You can ostracize the nazis but you gotta wake up everyone else, otherwise we will NEVER get past this extreme polarization we're currently in.

Armaros · Jan 19, 2020

Dream Machine said:
It's weird how once the democratic party started transitioning away from the working class and workers rights, and started focusing on the affluent PMCs, they lost all of the workers that aren't as vulnerable and desperate as the PoCs. People of color's votes are taken for granted because dems aren't as bad as republicans. Dems don't earn their votes because they appeal to them as members of the working class. They appeal to them by saying "those other guys want to target you and your rights based on your identity and make things worse, and we want to keep the current bad system the same. Or at least make it worse more slowly than them. Take your pick".

And the huge, varied group of the working class that doesn't vote because they rightly perceive that most politicians don't care about them or their rights? Should they be ignored, or energized and appealed to? Or should we just fight over shrinking sub-divided voting demographics by moving to the right and losing anyway?

and they all went to the GOP:

the epitome of working class and worker protections.

your premise doesn't even pass the basic smell test.

And yet AGAIN, ignores racism

CharlesAznable · Jan 19, 2020

bye said:
I don't think thats true. Yes racism is at all levels of society, it probably always will be, but the most dangerous racists are the ones that keep voting for Republicans. I don't think doing nothing about this is the solution

Wealthy and educated people vote for republicans....

Dream Machine · Jan 19, 2020

Top NHST Product said:
People saying that there is nothing wrong with this because democrats fail the working class and that Bernie is the candidate to get them back on track. Black people make up just as much of the working class as white people in universally every region. Obama was just as competitive in the state despite having such low support amongst white people. His low support amongst white people in Mississippi isn't due to lack of support from the working class.

Bernie is my top pick but some of his fans constantly try to use this excuse and I'm Fucking tired of it.

I understand where you're coming from, but i find those who default to "they're just racist, fuck em" frustrating as well. Race and class are both very important factors, and they are intertwined.

onadesertedisland · Jan 19, 2020

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Bernie is pandering and lying here like every single politician.

It's just annoying when his cult fans destroy other politicians for similar comments.

I couldn't care less about whom brings what we need. I only care about what and how they will

Foffy said:
This is one of the successes the Republicans have made, and I think for a great deal of us, it's hard to admit that they've essentially conditioned these people so long as they draw breath; you can warm them up to concepts like dignity and compassion, but when push comes to shove, if these white people have to be arm and arm with a black person, that's too alien for them to adhere to. Similarly to how the conservative movement was able to propagandize welfare as a primarily non-white "service," to people hoodwinked into these beliefs, there's just about nothing one can do to convince them to change or see things differently.

The issue is that the problem of precarity does overlap with racism, but that is also to say that racists exist. Bernie's seemingly trying to argue it's in these precarious situations you can condition one to be racist - racism is a form of conditioning - but I think he's also trying to act that we can decondition these people, and that, I'm unsure of. The comfort of white man's misery is still more worthwhile in the hearts of some of these people than solidarity with the suffering of minorities, let alone alleviating their suffering too.

The unifying of the poor white and black could lead to a potential paradigm shift if it can be done. It's timely to say, but this was MLK's last living mission before he was assassinated. One can argue trying to do so is what got him killed.

I think that we've allowed the poor white to believe that the middle and upperclass white consider them to be equals for too long. The poor white is hated by the wealthy almost as much as the wealthy white hates minorites. The poor minority has common ground with the poor white in that they both have fundamental unmet needs but the poor white still clings to supremacy over meeting those needs.

Autodidact · Jan 19, 2020

excelsiorlef said:
Reminder dude outright said not voting for a black person specifically because they're black isn't neccesarily racist.

Yep, about Gillum and Abrams. But those comments conveniently get forgotten.

Particle Physicist said:
Black people aren't working class to some.

Let's be real. In our cultural mythos, working class means "white men who work in manufacturing and dispense the kind of homespun wisdom you can't get from book learnin'." Conversely, racists have been successful in ingraining the stereotype of black people as moochers who want to use your white money to live high on the hog. Racist white people live in fear of having to support THOSE PEOPLE. That's why they oppose food stamps, the ACA, etc. They resent PoC getting any help and think only they deserve it because THEY work.

legend166 · Jan 19, 2020

Top story: man who wants people to vote for him avoids calling them racist en masse.

The way some people on here don't understand even the most basic of political realities is weird. Do you still think Hilary's deplorables comment was actually a good idea?

Slayven · Jan 19, 2020

onadesertedisland said:
I couldn't care less about whom brings what we need. I only care about what and how they will

I think that we've allowed the poor white to believe that the middle and upperclass white consider them to be equals for too long. The poor white is hated by the wealthy almost as much as the wealthy white hates minorites. The poor minority has common ground with the poor white in that they both have fundamental unmet needs but the poor white still clings to supremacy over meeting those needs.

Remember "cracker" was created by rich white people to call poor white people

Betty · Jan 19, 2020

CharlesAznable said:
Or he could've simply, not tried to white wash the state's racism? The entire statement was completely unnecessary.

Well yeah that would've been good too.

Bernie Sanders: Barack Obama won 10% of the white vote in Mississippi. That speaks to very bad work done by Democrats there

volunteer forum janitor

User requested account closure

Happy New Year!!

alt account

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!

Never read a comic in his life

Bad Praxis

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios

Bad Praxis

Never read a comic in his life

Never read a comic in his life