Bernie really out here cutting ads with Joe Rogan's endorsement (SEE STAFF POST)

[Deleted member 8561]

It's very disconcerting to see people shush the very people Rogan's stances are harmful to telling you why this didn't have to happen.

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Disconcerting is one word to describe this.

Another way to put it is people have exposed themselves for the frauds they are over the last two weeks and will do anything to defend Sanders, no matter how simple the solution to avoid these issues have been by both Sanders and his supporters.

Literally all Sanders had to do was not make an ad. If he wanted to have outreach to Rogan people, let Rogan handle that. There was zero reason to attach yourself to Joe Rogan, and the only reason he has a defense force is because Sanders is infallible to some people and will do anything to defend him.

 

[Volimar]

Disconcerting is one word to describe this.

Another way to put it is people have exposed themselves for the frauds they are over the last two weeks and will do anything to defend Sanders, no matter how simple the solution to avoid these issues have been by both Sanders and his supporters.

Literally all Sanders had to do was not make an ad. If he wanted to have outreach to Rogan people, let Rogan handle that. There was zero reason to attach yourself to Joe Rogan, and the only reason he has a defense force is because Sanders is infallible to some people and will do anything to defend him.

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This is my position too. People trying to make it about the endorsement are being disingenuous. The endorsement happens, Rogan touts it, Sanders is helped, life goes on. Making an ad out of it says that Bernie covets the endorsement of a man whose racism and bigotry actively make things worse for marginalized people when he gives talking points to the jello minded audience that people are claiming Sanders needs to reach out to. It was a hurtful unforced error on Bernie's part.

 

[Nepenthe]

It's very disconcerting to see people shush the very people Rogan's stances are harmful to telling you why this didn't have to happen.

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This is expected behavior to me, honestly.

 

[Armaros]

How is this suppose to help Bernie win the primary when the reason he is still down on Biden is because Bernie still hasn't made major moves to attract Black Voters.

Advertising Rogan is going to do that?

 

[Damaniel]

I'm a Warren supporter first and foremost, but I don't really have any issue with this. In fact, Bernie's extremely unwavering principles and otherwise annoying unwillingness to compromise is actually a benefit here. He can get the endorsement of an admittedly not-so-great person with a very large, often apolitical, and very malleable fanbase and not have to compromise or flip-flop in any way whatsoever to do so, and in an environment where beating Trump is the most important thing, any votes we can get that don't require compromising the platform are ones we should be taking. If we take the pure stand that we only court people who are completely non-problematic in every way, we'd end up with nothing but a tiny coalition that can't win elections, and therefore can't actually get the change we need (or worse, get the change that Trump wants).

I have plenty of problems with Bernie, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Alienous]

I think part of the issue is seeing Rogan as racist and transphobic is a fairly nuanced point of view. He represents, unfortunately, some very mainstream opinions - so he resonates with a very large audience.

For him to have an endorsement that essentially is saying "This guy is better than me / most people" I don't think it represents Bernie coming down to his level. Hopefully it will help some people who have callous or even bigoted views adopt a good one.

 

[Slayven]

How is this suppose to help Bernie win the primary when the reason he is still down on Biden is because Bernie still hasn't made major moves to attract Black Voters.

Advertising Rogan is going to do that?

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I need a training arc before South Carolina.

 

[Goat Mimicry]

It's about beating Trump... ok then why roll this out when it's about beating Biden and Warren?

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And why are Yang and Tulsi doing so badly if positive exposure to Rogan's audience is that valuable?

 

[Nepenthe]

How is this suppose to help Bernie win the primary when the reason he is still down on Biden is because Bernie still hasn't made major moves to attract Black Voters.

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It's because black people matter less than that diverse, apolitical Joe Rogan coalition.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

I'm really curious how this is going to help Sanders defeat Biden and win over the crucial older black voting population that is currently Biden's firewall from defeat. I'm really interested in how this is some mastermind strategy of winning over a bunch of idiot white guys who listen to Rogan who probably aren't going to vote in the primary anyways!

Instead of courting a crucial Democratic voting population, Sanders has instead opted to reach out to an apolitical white male coalition.

I am absolutely SHOCKED.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I mean if I'm a dirty shit heel like Biden I find the numerous racist clips of Rogan and intercut it with Sanders bragging about the endorsement

 

[Armaros]

I think part of the issue is seeing Rogan as racist and transphobic is a fairly nuanced point of view. He represents, unfortunately, some very mainstream opinions - so he resonates with a very large audience.

For him to have an endorsement that essentially is saying "This guy is better than me / most people" I don't think it represents Bernie coming down to his level. Hopefully it will help some people who have callous or even bigoted views adopt a good one.

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Funny, that logic doesn't extend to groups like center-left or centrist democrats and other voters, who are called Scum of the earth, while people in this thread start going "well we need Rogan's viewers to beat Trump even if they all have unforrtunate views about trans people and black people"

Its hypocritical.

 

[Volimar]

In any other thread: "Fuck Republicans. You can't get through to bigots, they're a lost cause."

In this thread: "Well they haven't met Bernie yet. Bernie will make them see the error of their ways."

I mean if I'm a dirty shit heel like Biden I find the numerous racist clips of Rogan and intercut it with Sanders bragging about the endorsement

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But have a PAC do it so you can distance yourself.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Also so we all understand then that we shouldn't necessarily handicap ourselves by refusing to take rich donor money because we have to beat Trump right?

 

[MazeHaze]

Joe Rogan sucks but if you plan on not voting or writing in a candidate (if bernie gets the nom) because Bernie went on one of the biggest podcast in the world, you need to re-evaluate your priorities.

Trump is gonna win, we're all fucked.

 

[S1lentSymph0ny]

Also so we all understand then that we shouldn't necessarily handicap ourselves by refusing to take rich donor money because we have to beat Trump right?

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I forgot that each $1 owned = 1 vote. You definitely need to bring in new money and lots of it since it gets to vote.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

People looking real class reductionist in the light.

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People calling a Jewish man who got into politics because his immediate family fled/were killed by Nazis, has fought for civil rights all his life, and has supported that with his policy voting for decades class reductionist have come off as antisemitic for a while now but nobody really cares.

People were saying the same shit when he was against the warmongering transphobe who used slave labour, this was all shown in her history at the time, but Bernie was clearly the one to be concerned about then too.

I mean you'd think there would be more focus on what they're doing more for minority communities rather than focusing on Bernie's screw ups. Which without a doubt they are. But focusing on them whilst ignoring candidates history of political racism/homophobia or their current messy takes on medicare for all is something that I don't get.

 

[Heshinsi]

Yes. And we will need them to win like everyone else. Not all of them, but more than what voted for Hillary. As I see it, The Rogan audience is one of the best audiences that Bernie can reach, and this is a very valuable endorsement.

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Do you though?

I think it's more important that you don't depress the minority vote in attempting to appeal to White Male voters who barely voted any different when Obama was running for office. You've got Wisconsin loud and proud at how they worked to make voting difficult for Black voters. So ensuring Republicans don't make it harder for minorities to vote is also pretty important. The election came down to around 110,000 voters in a handful of states. Democrats should worry about how they are going to energise their base (minorities - Black women especially - are their most consistent voting base) to come out and vote. Also, make sure Republicans don't make it hard for them to do so.

Romney and Trump's percentage of the White Male votes are essentially the same. So even there the White Male voters whom Hillary lost that voted Obama, ended up going to third party candidates and not Trump. Also Hillary has an increase over Obama from White women. But her vote share amongst minorities were less than Obama's.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....17/9/18/16305486/what-really-happened-in-2016

 

[Dakkon]

It fucking sucks but I'd rather do this and win and be able to protect POC & LGBT than to not do this and lose and damn them all to another 4 years (or more) of this fascist administration, and unfortunately this racist transphobic knob can actually help determine that outcome.

At least we got some democrats this time around willing to do whatever they legally can do to win, unlike HRC who just thought she couldn't lose and coasted by.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

Do you though?

I think it's more important that you don't depress the minority vote in attempting to appeal to White Male voters who barely voted any different when Obama was running for office. You've got Wisconsin loud and proud at how they worked to make voting difficult for Black voters. So ensuring Republicans don't make it harder for minorities to vote is also pretty important. The election came down to around 110,000 voters in a handful of states. Democrats should worry about how they are going to energise their base (minorities - Black women especially - are their most consistent voting base) to come out and vote. Also, make sure Republicans don't make it hard for them to do so.

Romney and Trump's percentage of the White Male votes are essentially the same. Some even there the White Male voters whom Hillary's lost that voted Obama, ended up going to third party candidates and not Trump.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....17/9/18/16305486/what-really-happened-in-2016

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What are you talking about.

Reaching out to a population of white apolitical men who don't vote is literally the only way to win... especially the Democratic nomination!

 

[JDSN]

Also so we all understand then that we shouldn't necessarily handicap ourselves by refusing to take rich donor money because we have to beat Trump right?

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But thats the good kind of woke, not like being mad triggered bruh about ape black people, thats just PC gone wrong.

 

[alexiswrite]

People calling a Jewish man who got into politics because his immediate family fled/were killed by Nazis, has fought for civil rights all his life, and has supported that with his policy voting for decades class reductionist have come off as antisemitic for a while now but nobody really cares.

People were saying the same shit when he was against the warmongering transphobe who used slave labour, this was all shown in her history at the time, but Bernie was clearly the one to be concerned about then too.

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When did I call Bernie a class absolutist?! I'm talking about people here, in this thread.

 

[Advance.Wars.Sgt.]

How is this suppose to help Bernie win the primary when the reason he is still down on Biden is because Bernie still hasn't made major moves to attract Black Voters.

Advertising Rogan is going to do that?

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Democrats/liberals/progressives operate on the belief the black vote is a perpetual given because the other side wishes to do far far worse.

It's the only demographic in America that votes pragmatically, a fact the political system has consistently taken advantage of ever since black Americans were given the right to vote.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Also so we all understand then that we shouldn't necessarily handicap ourselves by refusing to take rich donor money because we have to beat Trump right?

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It actually is hilarious how people don't get whiplash by denouncing big money donors/supporters with one side of their mouths, but saying racist donors/supporters are A-ok with the other side, if it means beating Trump.

Like, wut?

Edit: It's honestly tiring responding in Bernie threads, because his fervent fanbase is developing the exact same (or worse) blindspot for racism that he has. Whether it's incidental or intentional is a case-by-case basis.

 

[excelsiorlef]

People calling a Jewish man who got into politics because his immediate family fled/were killed by Nazis, has fought for civil rights all his life, and has supported that with his policy voting for decades class reductionist have come off as antisemitic for a while now but nobody really cares.

People were saying the same shit when he was against the warmongering transphobe who used slave labour, this was all shown in her history at the time, but Bernie was clearly the one to be concerned about then too.

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That post is talking about the class reductionism in this thread tho

 

[Deleted member 37235]

Not one person in this thread who is lumping Sanders in with racists and transphobes has provided any substantive argument to prove that he is endorsing those views, despite his own words and actions constantly militating against those views.

To tout an endorsement from Rogan is not advocacy of his views or the views of anyone who might have been presented on the podcast. You can get into it about whether it was "smart" to do but that isn't what's happening here, which seems to be the typical anti-Sanders histrionics that accompany any of his bowel movements.

Ultimately the point is to WIN, Rogan does boost right-wing bullshit and he does attract right-wingers as part of his audience but there's also millions of ppl who listen to this guy. To suggest that they're all reactionaries, hard right-wingers, etc is simply asinine as a form of social and political analysis, your histrionics does not substitute for facts here. The more likely situation with the bulk of his audience is that they have a smattering if views on things but not systematic or comprehensive worldview...just like most of the American electorate. That's precisely who you'd want to reach if you're trying to WIN ppl to your political agenda.

Basically a lot of you are mad at this guy for actually trying to win.

 

[rusty chrome]

The same Joe Rogan that called black people "planet of the apes" and the same Joe Rogan who said Dada 5000's heart was filled with "cheeseburgers, fried chicken, and orange soda" after the dude collapsed during a fight? It's pretty shocking to see this dude have a defense force.

 

[Figgles]

I'm really curious how this is going to help Sanders defeat Biden and win over the crucial older black voting population that is currently Biden's firewall from defeat. I'm really interested in how this is some mastermind strategy of winning over a bunch of idiot white guys who listen to Rogan who probably aren't going to vote in the primary anyways!

Instead of courting a crucial Democratic voting population, Sanders has instead opted to reach out to an apolitical white male coalition.

I am absolutely SHOCKED.

Click to shrink...

Is this the time to bring up the problematic views of older black voters? Rogan's racist views might be a problem for them, but his transphobia/homophobia sure isn't.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

Not one person in this thread who is lumping Sanders in with racists and transphobes has provided any substantive argument to prove that he is endorsing those views, despite his own words and actions constantly militating against those views.

To tout an endorsement from Rogan is not advocacy of his views or the views of anyone who might have been presented on the podcast. You can get into it about whether it was "smart" to do but that isn't what's happening here, which seems to be the typical anti-Sanders histrionics that accompany any of his bowel movements.

Ultimately the point is to WIN, Rogan does boost right-wing bullshit and he does attract right-wingers as part of his audience but there's also millions of ppl who listen to this guy. To suggest that they're all reactionaries, hard right-wingers, etc is simply asinine as a form of social and political analysis, your histrionics does not substitute for facts here. The more likely situation with the bulk of his audience is that they have a smattering if views on things but not systematic or comprehensive worldview...just like most of the American electorate. That's precisely who you'd want to reach if you're trying to WIN ppl to your political agenda.

Basically a lot of you are mad at this guy for actually trying to win.

Click to shrink...

He's doing a really bad job courting the actual people who vote in Democratic Primaries if he's "trying to win".

Just a casual reminder, he's not the nominee and the Joe Rogan voting population is not what I would call a "powerhouse" voting bloc in the Democratic Primary.

 

[Heshinsi]

What are you talking about.

Reaching out to a population of white apolitical men who don't vote is literally the only way to win... especially the Democratic nomination!

Click to shrink...

 

[airbagged_]

Couple of tweets I saw about it







Fair points but the Dem wave DID start in 2018 without the need of centrists/apolitical people so.... we'll see, I guess

 

[LiquidSword]

We should be doing anything we can to win and Joe Rogan is very influential with certain groups who are not very politically active. At the same time he will say something in the next few months to contradict this "endorsement" so I don't think Bernie or his campaign should be cutting ads and posting clips of this officially.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

When did I call Bernie a class absolutist?! I'm talking about people here, in this thread.

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That post is talking about the class reductionism in this thread tho

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Fair point. I've just seen i from a lot of people talking about Bernie in these threads, I messed up by assuming alexiswrite was one of them.

Also I'm just irked I got ghosted when asking why the people so bothered about this didn't have similar issues with other candidates advertising their endorsements from the likes of the NYT given it's support of the IDW and genocide apologia.

 

[etrain911]

He's doing a really bad job courting the actual people who vote in Democratic Primaries if he's "trying to win".

Just a casual reminder, he's not the nominee and the Joe Rogan voting population is not what I would call a "powerhouse" voting bloc in the Democratic Primary.

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Then why is he surging in the polls while Biden is falling?

 

[Deleted member 8561]

Is this the time to bring up the problematic views of older black voters? Rogan's racist views might be a problem for them, but his transphobia/homophobia sure isn't.

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Soooo, what I'm picking up from this is you're thinking that Sanders should make ads specifically... repeating Joe Rogan's transphobic and homophobic views.

I don't really know the demographic breakdown of Rogan viewers, but I'm going to guess 55+ black male/women are probably in the lower percentile of his viewer base. Nor do I really fully understand cultural differences regarding older black people and their views on homophobia/transphobia, although I'm sure it's more in line with any type of older person who is more likely to have bigoted views on such topics.

Then why is he surging in the polls while Biden is falling?

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Have you actually looked at cross tabs or are you actually insinuating the apolitical white men are the reason Sanders is has taken second place in polling.

 

[Peerless]

Is this the time to bring up the problematic views of older black voters? Rogan's racist views might be a problem for them, but his transphobia/homophobia sure isn't.

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We really going to blame black people for the election again, huh.

 

[blackw0lf48]

This is a risky gambit for Bernie because while it does help with his electability argument it also possibly hurts him with voters that are more likely to be marginalized.

I think Bernie could have done a better job expressing while he doesn't agree with Rogan's views that the endorsement shows that if democrats are authentic, hold true to their ideals, and fight in the interest of workers, that even when a person might disagree ideologically, that you can still win their support. That is an important message.

 

[Astrot]

https://www.inquisitr.com/5844978/joe-rogan-biden-warren-buttigieg-podcast/

I don't know if this was posted already but Warren and Biden also wanted to be (according to Joe Rogan) on Joe rogean's podcast.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Is this the time to bring up the problematic views of older black voters? Rogan's racist views might be a problem for them, but his transphobia/homophobia sure isn't.

Click to shrink...

ITS TIME TO BLAME THE BLACKS AGAIN

*rings alarm*

 

[Volimar]

Not one person in this thread who is lumping Sanders in with racists and transphobes has provided any substantive argument to prove that he is endorsing those views, despite his own words and actions constantly militating against those views.

To tout an endorsement from Rogan is not advocacy of his views or the views of anyone who might have been presented on the podcast. You can get into it about whether it was "smart" to do but that isn't what's happening here, which seems to be the typical anti-Sanders histrionics that accompany any of his bowel movements.

Ultimately the point is to WIN, Rogan does boost right-wing bullshit and he does attract right-wingers as part of his audience but there's also millions of ppl who listen to this guy. To suggest that they're all reactionaries, hard right-wingers, etc is simply asinine as a form of social and political analysis, your histrionics does not substitute for facts here. The more likely situation with the bulk of his audience is that they have a smattering if views on things but not systematic or comprehensive worldview...just like most of the American electorate. That's precisely who you'd want to reach if you're trying to WIN ppl to your political agenda.

Basically a lot of you are mad at this guy for actually trying to win.

Click to shrink...

You think the black and trans posters in the thread who have explained over and over why it's harmful to make an ad for a bigot are just mad at him for "actually trying to win"? Are the blinders on that tight?

https://www.inquisitr.com/5844978/joe-rogan-biden-warren-buttigieg-podcast/

I don't know if this was posted already but Warren and Biden also wanted to be on Joe rogean's podcast.

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By all means let's take the bigot at his word.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

Couple of tweets I saw about it







Fair points but the Dem wave DID start in 2018 without the need of centrists/apolitical people so.... we'll see, I guess

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It's not their fucking past. Joe Rogan is saying this shit RIGHT NOW.

Also treating a news publication like it's some static, anthropomorphic being and comparing it to a living person regarding "endorsements" is the dumbest fucking thing I've heard in a long time.

 

[Figgles]

I don't really know the demographic breakdown of Rogan viewers, but I'm going to guess 55+ black male/women are probably in the lower percentile of his viewer base.

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Most of this demographic probably isn't aware of who Rogan even is. This isn't going to move the needle for them at all.

 

[Peerless]

ITS TIME TO BLAME THE BLACKS AGAIN

*rings alarm*

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Its like clockwork at this point.

 

[Armaros]

Couple of tweets I saw about it







Fair points but the Dem wave DID start in 2018 without the need of centrists/apolitical people so.... we'll see, I guess

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And yet we have the response in this forum and online about various people trying to get Centrists, center-left people and that is constantly met with Venom?

Why the disconnect and cherry picking?

 

[Deleted member 36054]

https://twitter.com/EmmaVigeland/st...iframe/2/twitter.min.html#1220734236019298304

This right here, is bullshit.

 

[Nepenthe]

Joe Rogan sucks but if you plan on not voting or writing in a candidate (if bernie gets the nom) because Bernie went on one of the biggest podcast in the world, you need to re-evaluate your priorities.

Trump is gonna win, we're all fucked.

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Oh come off it.

You wanna talk about the left eating itself?

It's this shit, right here, where every single grievance and problem black people have with the work of Democrats is immediately misconstrued into a threat to stay home or not vote, which is ironic given the way the national vote went the last fucking time.

It is not a problem to criticise your party in an effort to do better.

It is a problem when people handwave you away but then threaten you that you better vote.

Y'all ain't shit.

 

[Deleted member 8561]

Most of this demographic probably isn't aware of who Rogan even is. This isn't going to move the needle for them at all.

Click to shrink...

So, what exactly is your point again?

 

[Drek]

The same Joe Rogan that called black people "planet of the apes" and the same Joe Rogan who said Dada 5000's heart was filled with "cheeseburgers, fried chicken, and orange soda" after the dude collapsed during a fight? It's pretty shocking to see this dude have a defense force.

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If you ever wanted proof that Sanders' core supporters are just a fucking cult this thread is it.

All the arguments justifying this would apply equally well to literally any other moral stance the left should be taking. Fossil fuel/pharma/Wall St. money? Got to win that election.

Not calling out waffling blue dogs? Got to win that election.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all about winning the election. But Sanders hasn't even won the primary yet, and isn't even the hands down favorite.

But hey, don't mind me. I look forward to the Medicare for All* Sanders will deliver. After all, every problem in our society is really just a class/economic problem.

*Following acceptable phrenology analysis and melanin testing to ensure that your continued health has value to the state.

 

[airbagged_]

https://www.inquisitr.com/5844978/joe-rogan-biden-warren-buttigieg-podcast/

I don't know if this was posted already but Warren and Biden also wanted to be on Joe rogean's podcast.

Click to shrink...

Well look at that

 

[Double 0]

Oh come off it.

You wanna talk about the left eating itself?

It's this shit, right here, where every single grievance and problem black people have with the work of Democrats is immediately misconstrued into a threat to stay home or not vote, which is ironic given the way the national vote went the last fucking time.

It is not a problem to criticise your party in an effort to do better.

It is a problem when people handwave you away but then threaten you that you better vote.

Y'all ain't shit.

Click to shrink...

All of this.

This was all caused because Bernie's team decided to gas dude up. They didn't have to do that.

They chose to be this uselessly divisive.