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Deleted member 60096

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 20, 2019
1,295
Trump has a very likely chance of winning reelection. To ignore an impressionable and numerous demographic of voters just screams foolishness to me.



So you'd prefer a Trump victory then?
Not what I said, I just think we don't need to rely on turning Nazi sympathisers to do so, and that the "deradicalised" that are already part of the left have been increasingly letting mask slip on the fact they're still bigots recently and we don't need them to become the majority of the movement
 

Deleted member 60302

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 29, 2019
100
Maybe because people don't want a sudden influx of white bigots thinking they have a fucking platform in the Democratic party who clearly view their economic agenda as the only thing that matters and view social issues as disposable garbage.

Maybe people are afraid that the people Sanders is courting are going to gain influence and we're going to fall back on giving a shit about issues that matter to people.

Because when you court people like Rogan that's the message you're sending, which is already rather crystal clear in terms of Sanders general attitude over the years in who he endorses and who he allies himself with.

These are reasonable points if you fear the sort of populism that Bernie symbolizes but?? At the end of the day if you are trying to win an election and have a base composed of young adult voters, it may be good to utilize things like popular podcast host who commentate on UFC games to your advantage.

Thats all Im saying. He's trying to appeal to a wide array of the electorate and I bet a lot of young white americans (especially) share the dumb bigoted views of people like Rogan and unfortunately to win you may need their vote.

Bernie's a populist so he garners this kind of attention regardless.

Also white bigots already exist on the Dem platform? Are we acting like this is new? How many trans posters have called Hillary transphobic or others calling Biden racist? Tulsi? Etc etc just this election cycle.

Bernie isnt changing policies for any of Rogan's viewer base. He got the endorsement and he's trying to get those viewers to vote for him because at the end of the day Bernie is the President for all of America.

If people give shit to Hillary for alienating certain rural voters, why would we turn and ask Bernie to do the same? It just doesnt make any sense if you actually want to win a general election versus another populist (and literal fascist) candidate
 

ebs

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
443
If we all have to lower our expectations of Democratic politicians, why wouldn't I go with Biden who already is problematic AF but carries with him huge support from the base of the party?

Strike a balance between ideology and the probability of implementing that ideology in reality. Consider that nuance and stop thinking in extremes like you just did.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
And the alternative is what? Let the other side walk them into their camp?
And what do you suggest? That we try to explain basic human decency to them? What would that do? They obviously haven't give a damn about it so far. Why would they suddenly see the light now?


How about we save the good will and understanding for people who actually deserve it.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Here is a small collection of quotes for those of you saying "A Rogan retweet isn't a big deal"

"We're in this weird fantasy world right now where people want to be so progressive and they want to be so open-minded and they don't want to be transphobic. So we're letting people say and do absolutely preposterous things," .... "But you're competing against women? You can go f— yourself,"


"'So I look at the iPhone app and it says, take me to this [movie theater]. The guy goes, "OK,", I go, "is that in a good neighbourhood?" He says, "yeah, yeah, yeah," he barely speaks English.

'He takes us there, we get out and we're giggling, "Oh, we're going to see Plant of the Apes." We walk into Planet of the Apes… we walked into Africa, dude. 'We walked in the door and there was no white people.' "

Yes, good takes all around.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
The kind of people who listen to Rogan are not the kind of people who are politically active. They are idiots like Joe who will hear "I'm not saying racism is GOOD... but he tells it like it is" and then go and vote trump with that echoing around their empty brains and then they forget about politics for 4 years.

They are not going to affect the democrat platform.

They are idiots.

Let's make those idiots useful for us for once.
So you and a few others attacked me for daring to say "I'll vote for Biden or Warren or anybody and "maybe" they'll drone strike but we'll get all this progressive stuff done.

And your big brain take is "let's use swamp nazi's and alt right shitheads as a reliable voting block to beat trump. Smash that subscribe button!"

giphy.gif
 
Nov 8, 2017
957
User banned (2 weeks): Dismissive drive-by in a sensitive thread
Joe is left leaning and acknowledges man made climate change. I would bet there is more overlap between the Joe Rogan Podcast fans and Bernie supporters than most here would think. It seems odd to me that so many here think Joe is some Trump supporting conservative. I admit, I only listen to the episodes with guests I want to hear from, but I can't recall Joe saying a positive thing about Trump. If anything he seems blown away by the fact that Trumps incoherent babbling gets people excited.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
Rogan is the type to be very impressionable. He only had support only after Bernie had a dialogue with him.

Some of his fan base is too far gone. That is for sure. But if there is a huge chunk, and he has a massive fanbase, that Bernie can away over, especially at key states that lost us 2016, then this is a no-brainer. Just look at the overwhelming positive comments from the podcast they did together.
 

Deleted member 82

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,626
It seems that there are two issues at play here:
1. The fact that Sanders's official account tweeted about Joe Rogan
2. The fact that Joe Rogan said he'd vote for Bernie.

About 1: Rogan sucks, and tweeting about his endorsement is unnecessary and shitty to, among others, trans people. I can definitely understand if some people dislike and are hurt by this move. I hesitate to call it signal-boosting judging by how popular the podcast already is, but it didn't need to be platformed, and it sends a crappy message. Joe Rogan isn't exactly someone you want to be officially (thought of as) chummy if you're progressive and pro-LGBTQIA+. Whatever support this nets Sanders is the result of people listening to the podcast, not the result of seeing the tweet on his account. It's clumsy at best.

About 2: the fact that Rogan said he'd vote for Bernie is good, and I'd argue it's much less problematic than being endorsed by, say, a member of the IDW. Rogan and his audiences definitely lean more towards the centrist/right-wing bros, but unlike personalities Ben Shapiro (who's a hateful imp) or Dave Rubin (who's a self-loathing dunce), it seems like he and his listeners can be somewhat influenced positively. On occasion, he'll support decent ideas, and at the very least, he's not, AFAIK, on a crusade against the left or anything like that. When Sanders was on his show, Rogan just let him speak, and largely agreed with whatever he had to say. Because that's what he does: he doesn't actively believe much, but lets himself be influenced by whoever last talked to him. It's like nothing really sticks with him, he just goes with the flow. That's dangerous when your guests are people like Jordan Peterson, but it becomes useful when it's Sanders, or anyone with a more progressive mindset. It seems like he doesn't really frame his interviews in a specific way, so at the very least, when his audience listens to Sanders, they get the full, unfiltered package. Michael Brooks had a segment about Rogan's endorsement yesterday where they basically said that Rogan's approach to politics is much more in line with the average Joe's or the true centrist/apolitical dude's than, say, the NYT's is. The people he appeals to are, at the very least, temporarily 'deprogrammable', while Shapiro's audience is already a lost cause, and Shapiro himself would turn the interview into a mindless disingenuous debate. In that sense, Rogan's endorsement is a good thing.
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
This doesn't even fundamentally make sense.

An ideologue candidate can seek election using a pragmatic strategy. There's literally nothing mutually exclusive about those elements.
It makes perfect sense.

Why would race be the one topic, when it comes time to be pragmatic? When you don't care about pragmatism and how stuff will poll or turn out when it comes to stuff like single-payer healthcare which will necessitate raising taxes even if it saves people money over all, even when it saves them money people still HATE, HATE, HATE to hear about their taxes going up, there's nothing pragmatic about that, there's nothing pragmatic about his stances about money-in-politics, which, while principled, are also shooting himself in the foot and also making it harder to win, and on so many other topics, him not caring whether it helps him or hurts or anything of the sort, but just doing what he personally believes is right regardless...

When he does that time and time again, when that's what Sanders is fundamentally about, not caring about his chances and doing what is right regardless...

Why is race/"identity" politics the one subject where this isn't the case and it's suddenly time to be pragmatic?

Because again, just talking about pragmatic election strategy, there's certainly nothing pragmatic about Sanders' absolutist stance when it comes to "dark money" in politics, that's not going to help him win, but he does that anyway.

That single-payer definitely aint' going to help Sanders win. Because even if it will save them money, people hate their taxes going up even more than saving money. That ain't going to help him. He does it anyway.

Etc.

So the one time, the one time "PRAGMATISM" to get brought up when it comes to Sanders, that when pragmatism gets brought up when it comes to him, and it almost always, always, always, being about issues of race/"identity politics" of all things...

Yeah, especially as a minority myself, that's going to make me raise some eyebrows, that that's when Sanders supporters tend to only begin to suddenly care about pragmatism, to dismiss the concerns of minorities and act like they don't know what they're talking about, and naturally being really, really more than a little annoyed that that's a recurring thing, that Sanders supporters flaunt how principled he is, and bemoan other candidates for not being as principled as him, and not having any problem with that in of itself, but to suddenly turn around and act like you give a single fuck about being pragmatic in topics like these of all topics, to just dismiss our concerns whereas in the next healthcare topic or whatever complainin' about how candidates can't get on Sanders page or whatever? Yeah, no. Either you care about it, or you don't.

And Sanders supporters typically don't. Which is fine. In of itself.

But don't suddenly act like you care later. Particularly when it's to dismiss concerns minorities such as myself have in topics like this. That ain't cool, at all. That's all I'm saying.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,141
She was already validated though. She got on Rogan's show because she was already insanely popular in various media circles.
You don't see the problem with that? But then again being a racist idiot does open a lot of doors in and america and get so many people giving you a pass on horrible things
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
Joe is left leaning and acknowledges man made climate change. I would bet there is more overlap between the Joe Rogan Podcast fans and Bernie supporters than most here would think. It seems odd to me that so many here think Joe is some Trump supporting conservative. I admit, I only listen to the episodes with guests I want to hear from, but I can't recall Joe saying a positive thing about Trump. If anything he seems blown away by the fact that Trumps incoherent babbling gets people excited.
I haven't seen anyone here suggesting Rogan supports trump. They are just pointing out that despite the fact that Rogan supports Bernie he is still a terrible person due to the fact that he provides platforms for bigots anf grifters.
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
Good for Sanders. It's smart. There's a big audience there; hopefully he can capture it.

Warren and Biden were also supposed to be on meathead Joe's show. So whatever. These fuckers are doing what they need to to gain control of the reigns.
 

Deleted member 6122

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
533
Joe Rogan is an idiot but people who are up in arms about this and not literally every politician who has ever lived going on Howard Stern are telling on themselves. You all care because it's Bernie this time don't lie. Getting people out of their bubble and onto the side of progressive policy is also... a good thing.
 

Helot_Azure

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,521
You don't see the problem with that? But then again being a racist idiot does open a lot of doors in and america and get so many people giving you a pass on horrible things

I definitely see it as a problem, because there's actually videos of her having completely opposite beliefs before her "conversion" to the right wing where vast amounts of fame and money awaited her. My point is that it isn't like Rogan pulled her out of obscurity and gave her a platform, she already had a massive one, and she wasn't being challenged by anyone. Rogan probably did the best job of not only challenging her, but making her out to be the utter fraud that she is. Her appearance on his show actually deflated her balloon quite a bit.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
37,160
The racists who listen to the Joe Rogan podcast have much less of a chance of influining Bernie's policy by voting for him than the racists who fund Biden and Buttigieg's campaigns have of influencing theirs.

It's good that Joe endorsed Bernie, and it's good that some of his audience can be exposed to his ideas and hopefully vote for him. I just wish Bernie's actual campaign didn't signal boost Rogan.
 

Book One

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,822
I went to a Rogan show a month or two ago.

his opener used the majority of his act to complain about transgender people.

The punchline of one of Rogan's jokes was to compare gay people to lions: "I'm glad they exist, but I wouldn't want to be surrounded by a bunch of them".

The whole thing was a real right wing bro vibe.
 

Brakke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,798
Rogan sucks ass. Anybody who listens to him is suspect.

I wish the Bernie campaign didn't step in it in this specific way so often. Bernie's still the dude tho.
 

cnorwood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,345
Warren was maybe a republican 20 years ago

"Traitor!"

Bernie just retweeted a shithead human being

"Ya'll this is just a part of life"

I'm just tired at this point.
Is this a real comparrison? The Bernie hate is getting crazy. People here used the "its just political" to defend Hillary and Obama's actual homophobic views
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,441
And what do you suggest? That we try to explain basic human decency to them? What would that do? They obviously haven't give a damn about it so far. Why would they suddenly see the light now?


How about we save the good will and understanding for people who actually deserve it.

I imagine the same thing that most people and politicians who go on his show want, access to his viewers to get their message across and garner their favor/vote. Their votes do matter both in the primary and general.
 

Deleted member 4552

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
2,570
You can see the real split in this thread between those who live in the real world and those living in the internet bubble, and this place is a fucking bubble.

Joe "A chimpanzee can rip your face off" Rogan has the most popular podcast in the English speaking world, and people talking about how it's bad Bernie is giving him legitimacy? It's the other way around. NYT times and the rest sure won't give Bernie legitimacy to the general public.

I really hope we do get Bernie versus Trump because it's your only chance.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Is this a real comparrison? The Bernie hate is getting crazy. People here used the "its just political" to defend Hillary and Obama's actual homophobic views
When Warren is a decent person who doesn't have these problematic views/issues?

Yes. It needs to be criticized. Because it keeps happening.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,092
You can see the real split in this thread between those who live in the real world and those living in the internet bubble, and this place is a fucking bubble.

Joe "A chimpanzee can rip your face off" Rogan has the most popular podcast in the English speaking world, and people talking about how it's bad Bernie is giving him legitimacy? It's the other way around. NYT times and the rest sure won't give Bernie legitimacy to the general public.

I really hope we do get Bernie versus Trump because it's your only chance.

It's not even a chance and you know it
 

Tophat Jones

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,946
This falls well short of the moral line that I draw for what I'm okay with in order to get Trump out of office.
 

Deleted member 6122

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
533
When Warren is a decent person who doesn't have these problematic views/issues?

Yes. It needs to be criticized. Because it keeps happening.
She pretended to be a different race for 90% of her life, was a republican for most of her life, and recently has been walking back her support of things like medicare for all to instead cater to centrists. But ok.
 

ebs

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
443
]
It makes perfect sense.

Why would race be the one topic, when it comes time to be pragmatic? When you don't care about pragmatism and how stuff will poll or turn out when it comes to stuff like single-payer healthcare which will necessitate raising taxes even if it saves people money over all, even when it saves them money people still HATE, HATE, HATE to hear about their taxes going up, there's nothing pragmatic about that, there's nothing pragmatic about his stances about money-in-politics, which, while principled, are also shooting himself in the foot and also making it harder to win, and on so many other topics, him not caring whether it helps him or hurts or anything of the sort, but just doing what he personally believes is right regardless...

When he does that time and time again, when that's what Sanders is fundamentally about, not caring about his chances and doing what is right regardless...

Why is race/"identity" politics the one subject where this isn't the case and it's suddenly time to be pragmatic?

Because again, just talking about pragmatic election strategy, there's certainly nothing pragmatic about Sanders' absolutist stance when it comes to "dark money" in politics, that's not going to help him win, but he does that anyway.

That single-payer definitely aint' going to help Sanders win. Because even if it will save them money, people hate their taxes going up even more than saving money. That ain't going to help him. He does it anyway.

Etc.

So the one time, the one time "PRAGMATISM" to get brought up when it comes to Sanders, that when pragmatism gets brought up when it comes to him, and it almost always, always, always, being about issues of race/"identity politics" of all things...

Yeah, especially as a minority myself, that's going to make me raise some eyebrows, that that's when Sanders supporters tend to only begin to suddenly care about pragmatism, to dismiss the concerns of minorities and act like they don't know what they're talking about, and naturally being really, really more than a little annoyed that that's a recurring thing, that Sanders supporters flaunt how principled he is, and bemoan other candidates for not being as principled as him, and not having any problem with that in of itself, but to suddenly turn around and act like you give a single fuck about being pragmatic in topics like these of all topics, to just dismiss our concerns whereas in the next healthcare topic or whatever complainin' about how candidates can't get on Sanders page or whatever? Yeah, no. Either you care about it, or you don't.

And Sanders supporters typically don't. Which is fine. In of itself.

But don't suddenly act like you care later. Particularly when it's to dismiss concerns minorities such as myself have in topics like this. That ain't cool, at all. That's all I'm saying.

Because Sanders doesn't build his campaign strategy, pragmatic campaign strategists build campaign strategy. It's not that complicated.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
You can see the real split in this thread between those who live in the real world and those living in the internet bubble, and this place is a fucking bubble.

Joe "A chimpanzee can rip your face off" Rogan has the most popular podcast in the English speaking world, and people talking about how it's bad Bernie is giving him legitimacy? It's the other way around. NYT times and the rest sure won't give Bernie legitimacy to the general public.

I really hope we do get Bernie versus Trump because it's your only chance.
It's possible to acknowledge that Rogans endorsement is good for Bernie while also acknowledging that Rogan is a shit person.


You can do both. And that's what most people seem to be doing.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
I mean... Weren't you the one making the argument that this whole Rogan thing doesn't matter because it doesn't affect any of Sanders' own stances on various issues, that it's not like Sanders changed his position on anything, and that's why this doesn't matter?

So what, hypothetically, would be the difference if someone like say David Duke did endorse Sanders and Sanders accepted his endorsement. As long as Sanders didn't actually compromise his stances on any issues, under your own logic, what would be the problem with that? What exactly is the difference between accepting an endorsement from Joe Rogan and one from David Duke, in your mind?

Because as you yourself said, it doesn't matter unless Sanders actually compromises his position on any issues because of it, right/ That was your positon?

Because by the sounds of things, when it comes to one racist, aka David Duke, you realize that there would be more to it and that even if Sanders were to not in any way change his position on any issues as a result of that, it still would not be very cool to accept the endorsement of such an individual.

But yet for Rogan it is different? So what is the difference exactly?

Because it sounds like you're very close to realizing there's more to this than just whether it not this stuff affects Sanders policy positions, but you're only applying that for some people and not others and I'm curious as to why, since this is different to what you said to me earlier in the thread. What's the difference then because certainly this logic of "becoming more sympathetic to a progressive platform" would apply just as much to a hypothetical David Duke endorsement, that you could make the same hypothetical argument to defend it, use the exact same logic, but yet for some reason you nonetheless feel differently and that that wouldn't be the case/wouldn't be good enough for one, but is for the other. Why is that then?
Really hoping you get a response to this.

Cool, glad you admitted it.

I'm not taking him at his word. I don't think he would miss an opportunity to trash a candidate he doesn't like when it would also be great for views. If he posts proof, fine, but until then, I don't believe him.
And this. Tired of the unfounded whataboutism regarding the other candidates.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,737
Wasn't people against Yang because they said he deliberately and subtly appeals to 4chan type groups? Why is it ok for Bernie to do it?
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
Man, I could give less of a crap about Bernie taking advantage of a Rogan endorsement like this. The dude has access to the type of people who might have never even considered voting dem before this election.
 

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,433
Joe Rogan is a stupid, bigoted piece of shit. His audience is still huge. This will get Sanders votes. I hate it. This doesn't actually change anything though. Vote for who you believe will be the best outcome for the country. For me that's Sanders.
 

yerrr

Banned
Nov 19, 2019
96
This thread is a sad reminder as to why the left stay losing.

Here is a small collection of quotes for those of you saying "A Rogan retweet isn't a big deal"

"We're in this weird fantasy world right now where people want to be so progressive and they want to be so open-minded and they don't want to be transphobic. So we're letting people say and do absolutely preposterous things," .... "But you're competing against women? You can go f— yourself,"


"'So I look at the iPhone app and it says, take me to this [movie theater]. The guy goes, "OK,", I go, "is that in a good neighbourhood?" He says, "yeah, yeah, yeah," he barely speaks English.

'He takes us there, we get out and we're giggling, "Oh, we're going to see Plant of the Apes." We walk into Planet of the Apes… we walked into Africa, dude. 'We walked in the door and there was no white people.' "

Yes, good takes all around.

Wait til you hear about the New York Times 😂
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
I will vote for whichever flawed candidate comes out of the primary, the question is why is Bernie different, and if he's not, why take the extra risk associated with him, rather than Grand-Pappy bussing connosour Biden?
Is there an extra risk? He does well in general election polling, both overall against Trump and in battleground states. His issue is winning the primary.
 
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