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newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
Joe Rogan can support Bernie Sanders and still spread transphobia that harms us as well, so this is not a positive in that sense either.
of course he can. I don't think this ad or bernie's acceptance of his endorsement is a tacit approval of that, and i don;t think it will lead to bernie supporters who were either pro-trans issues or ambivalent about them to become transphobes, especially not violent transphobes

i just think that we are giving way too much power to an ad
 

Psamtik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,874
The only thing that's ever given me pause about Bernie is his tendency to surround himself with shitheads. I don't think it bodes well for his cabinet.
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
Like it or not he has a big audience. And hasn't he been on there before? So I'm not sure why it is so surprising that he would accept his endorsement.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
of course he can. I don't think this ad or bernie's acceptance of his endorsement is a tacit approval of that, and i don;t think it will lead to bernie supporters who were either pro-trans issues or ambivalent about them to become transphobes, especially not violent transphobes

i just think that we are giving way too much power to an ad

I feel like you're not actually reading what I've been saying all the way through when you keep bringing up violence in this way. Physical violence is only one form of discrimination that puts trans people in danger.

You're also ignoring trans people's literal lived experience surrounding how something as simple as transphobic jokes from TV shows or comedians can lead to negative stereotypes being reinforced and ultimately discrimination. Providing a platform to transphobia in any manner has real consequences that we've had to deal with our whole lives, and calling it hypothetical fear mongering was frankly insulting from someone who is cis
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
Rogan's a prick. I wouldn't cut an ad about him.

But as long as you aren't giving him any concessions, seems perfectly cromulent to go after his audience.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
I feel like you're not actually reading what I've been saying all the way through when you keep bringing up violence in this way. Physical violence is only one form of discrimination that puts trans people in danger.

You're also ignoring trans people's literal lived experience surrounding how something as simple as transphobic jokes from TV shows or comedians can lead to negative stereotypes being reinforced and ultimately discrimination. Providing a platform to transphobia in any manner has real consequences that we've had to deal with our whole lives, and calling it hypothetical fear mongering was frankly insulting from someone who is cis
This is very fair, and I have been too focused on physical violence

Would you, for the love of god, stop cisplaining to me about how to fuckin' feel about Bernie boosting a transphobe.
you're right, i got too in my own head on one way of thinking and didn't really consider either things. sorry!
 
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Lashes.541

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,757
Roseburg Oregon
Can some one link me to the joe rogan quotes that are transphobic? I watch his show all the time. And outside of a couple stupid things I'm not seeing them? So perhaps I am missing something? The only things I see people bring up is the biological fact that there is two physical genders. So is that the one?
 

Deleted member 8644

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
975
Can some one link me to the joe rogan quotes that are transphobic? I watch his show all the time. And outside of a couple stupid things I'm not seeing them? So perhaps I am missing something? The only things I see people bring up is the biological fact that there is two physical genders. So is that the one?
That is not a fact, educate yourself. I'm gonna (probably wrongly) assume that you might be posting in good faith so please start from this whole thread
 

Vennt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
647
Morals give way to political expediency... Quellé Surprisé.

Bernies different how exactly?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,660
Can some one link me to the joe rogan quotes that are transphobic? I watch his show all the time. And outside of a couple stupid things I'm not seeing them? So perhaps I am missing something? The only things I see people bring up is the biological fact that there is two physical genders. So is that the one?
Firstly that's not how science or facts work, maybe read up on gender theory before saying that type of stuff.

Secondly I'm not sure he made the comments I'm familiar with on his own podcast it was part of some UFC round table. But if you google "Joe Rogan trans athletes" they're sure to pop right up.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
Good, Rogan has a large audience, and probably some of it intersects with the kinds of people that would actually benefit from Sanders policy, but may otherwise vote against their socio-economic interests.

As for Rogan himself, he is a controversial figure sure, but he has a pretty good diversity of people he interviews for his show, and some of them are great people. While I am not a phoney 'free speech!' advocate by any means, I do think it is good to expose people to a range of opinions and ways of doing within reason. There are defintely extreme cases where that doesn't apply to such as Milo, who thrives on attention, and lacks any sort of meaningful substance.

I also, dispute that Rogan himself is such an extremist that his endorsement is particularly problematic for Sanders. While I would condemn any transphobic attitudes that he has, I don't think he is as problematic as some of the characters other dems are associated with. Clinton was friends with both Weinstein and Epstein, funny how that is brushed under the carpet by some on here, isn't it?

Otherwise, I think Sanders has a pretty good voting record on trans related issues and this doesn't change that.

she_esh: Gender is for sure, sex isn't although it is more a spectrum with significant differences resolving as you cross the spectrum from one side to the other.
 

Satanic Saint

Member
Oct 27, 2017
140
I don't even like Rogan. He's by far the most biased current UFC commentator. And I don't even like his podcast. But why is everyone calling him right wing POS? I remember him saying he has always been left wing. Did I miss something? Did he do something else apart from bringing on Alex Jones on his podcast?
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,660
I don't even like Rogan. He's by far the most biased current UFC commentator. And I don't even like his podcast. But why is everyone calling him right wing POS? I remember him saying he has always been left wing. Did I miss something? Did he do something else apart from bringing on Alex Jones on his podcast?

He's made very transphobic statements around trans athletes and his guess list is very right and alt-right leaning. Bernie is just about the only leftist person he's ever had on, unless you want to count Sam Harris, but I wouldn't. Meanwhile in addition to Alex Jones he's had Milo, Jordan Peterson, and a whole other host of right wing grifters on.
 

Lashes.541

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,757
Roseburg Oregon
That is not a fact, educate yourself. I'm gonna (probably wrongly) assume that you might be posting in good faith so please start from this whole thread

I assure you I am posting in good faith, if the science has changed from what I was aware of such as all biological creatures born either asexual, male of female. Then I very much would like to learn about it. I was always told a trans human is either a male body with a female brain or male brain female body, I acknowledge that was the thought from years ago, and science changes so rapidly. So I would very much like to learn more... we're I live in Oregon there is very few trans or even gay people, so if I could I would sit down and have a conversation with some to have a better understanding😊 ...okay I read that twitter thread and I think I see what people have a issue with, joe being a idiot... and even though I love his program I definitely think he is more stupid than he pretends🤣 but to me that does not make him a transphobic person. It just makes him dumb, on this subject I might say things that could be thought of as transphobic? But that's only from not knowing a whole lot on the subject.
 
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Sep 12, 2018
19,846
If the Sanders campaign can turn the bigots and apathetic centrists in Rogan's audience away from the likes of the guests he often has on I say that's a good thing. Rogan is a bigoted piece of shit a lot of the time but the thing is he has a vast influence and I totally get why the Sanders campaign used him in this way, if it turns America away from further neoliberalism, doing nothing in the face of climate change, exorbitant student debts and people dying because they can't afford healthcare it might be worth it in the end. Plus it's hard for me to believe that anyone else running for president wouldn't signal boost his endorsement.

 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,221
Transphobes to the left of me,
Nazis to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with Boogie
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,827
Do you honestly think that people advocating for one form of pragmatism means that they're okay with any and every form of pragmatism?
If you want Trump out, you might not want to turn up your nose at potential votes. Sure, Rogan is an idiot, but if he helps you get a progressive into the White House, what's the problem here?
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Rogan is an idiot loser but this is a smart move. Everyone who was going to vote for Bernie will still vote for Bernie. This will only move the needle positively, there is no downside for his campaign here. Does it suck that he's signal boosting Rogan? Sure. Does it suck more than I want Bernie to win? Fuck no. And yeah I'm trans.
 

SlumberingGiant

alt account
Banned
Jul 2, 2019
1,389
The only way to change people who listen to the likes of Joe is for people like Bernie to be on this show. If anything this ad makes the argument 'hey I'm so good I turned this idiot around, I can do it with anyone' . Good ad.
 

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,811
The right wing thing I don't get, all of his podcasts so far he's come across pretty moderate to left leaning. And out of 1500 odd podcasts he's brought on a handful of shit heads.

Can some one link me to the joe rogan quotes that are transphobic? I watch his show all the time. And outside of a couple stupid things I'm not seeing them? So perhaps I am missing something? The only things I see people bring up is the biological fact that there is two physical genders. So is that the one?

He jokes about it every so often, bringing up a story about how one of his friends decided to enter a lifting comp as a woman.
 

eebster

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,596
Criticising him for this is absolutely ridiculous. Do you want to beat trump or no? Do you want to sway users who are in between fences and who might swing the election in the democrats favor? Cause this is how you do it. Same with the Fox News town hall.
Instead of being praised for winning over a demographic that might not vote democratic otherwise and maybe even changing their political view, he is being critized for it.
Absolutely insane, liberals really are something else sometimes
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
He's made very transphobic statements around trans athletes and his guess list is very right and alt-right leaning. Bernie is just about the only leftist person he's ever had on, unless you want to count Sam Harris, but I wouldn't. Meanwhile in addition to Alex Jones he's had Milo, Jordan Peterson, and a whole other host of right wing grifters on.

That is not true really. For instance, one of the other podcasts I watched of Rogan's was when he had Immortal Technique on, who is about as left wing as they come.

What did he say about trans athletes? I also have some reservations about how the issue filters within sports, given on the one hand it is an issue that mediates both self identification and biological aspects. For instance, seperation of men and women in sports still seems to be justified along difference in performance in certain sports backed by biological differences. I mean in bboying which I do, bgirls and bboys compete against each other in many instances, compete together, and in some cases compete seperately. Many bgirls are happy in some instances to compete amongst each other, such as for Red Bull BC One. Historically far more guys have stayed with bboying but things are starting to change, and even in the dynamic side, bgirls are really coming up, and of course on the style side they excel just as well anyway. Over time, maybe the different competitions will be erased, who knows? That would be cool. But the scene has improved anyway. I haven't seen many trans in the scene myself, but in bboying I don't think there is any hard exclusion, and it is also an activity more based on skill and flair, rather than just the distilled physical traits employed in say athletics. So in bboying I think there isn't any issue, whereas in things like athletics, I would very still respect the voices of women along side the voices of trans people. It is not either or, these things have to be negotiated over time. Sorry for the rambling, more like stream of thought.
 

SlumberingGiant

alt account
Banned
Jul 2, 2019
1,389
I don't even like Rogan. He's by far the most biased current UFC commentator. And I don't even like his podcast. But why is everyone calling him right wing POS? I remember him saying he has always been left wing. Did I miss something? Did he do something else apart from bringing on Alex Jones on his podcast?
Saying your left wing is a common tactic of right wing internet personalities.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
If you're super mad about this you care more about optics than Bernie, the only progressive candidate, actually winning the election. "politicians should not try to win over people with some problematic takes or their audience" is not a winning strategy.

You can be disappointed that Rogan is getting a signal boost while also recognizing this is a politically expedient move that doesn't somehow make Bernie into a transphobe by association. Yeah it's wild I know.
 

Sandersson

Banned
Feb 5, 2018
2,535
Transphobes to the left of me,
Nazis to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with Boogie
Hey hey, one wants to throw a molotov cocktail into a bank, the other one wants to genocide the minorities. Maybe if you talk to both of them, you can learn a little bit from both of them. Center is a great place to be.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
He's made very transphobic statements around trans athletes and his guess list is very right and alt-right leaning. Bernie is just about the only leftist person he's ever had on, unless you want to count Sam Harris, but I wouldn't. Meanwhile in addition to Alex Jones he's had Milo, Jordan Peterson, and a whole other host of right wing grifters on.

He's been a bit better about offering left wing guests after some criticism. He's had Abby Martin on a couple times, Ana Kasparian has been on, Kyle Kulinski has been on (who is kinda hit or miss himself), Adam Conover, Cornel West has been on. He's definitely favored the right wing grifters a lot more though and his takes on trans athletes are legitimately terrible, I wish Adam Conover could have provided better arguments because there are ones to be made but Joe definitely pushes back on that topic more than just about any topic discussed on that show, it definitely reveals a bias.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,229
People expecting a clean-cut political revolution without any grey areas are being incredibly unrealistic. Your favourite politician is going to interact with, and need to work with, people you don't like in order to deliver meaningful results.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
I think it's good a progressive candidate is winning over people across the political spectrum without compromising on his own policies.
 

TheMilkman

Banned
Aug 30, 2019
473
I don't have a problem with this from Bernie. So long as he doesn't compromise on his policies, he should try to get as many votes as he can.
 

smuf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
533
Rogan's an absolute ass, but he's a got a large following and if this gets more people to vote Bernie I don't mind.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,099
Okay that might be true, I'm not great with words. So what would be the correct term for male, female. From purely a biological perspective? Because in the animal kingdom it's gender.

In simple terms, that would be sex. Sex can be determined via chromosomes (XX vs. XY) or physical appearance/external genitalia*.

Gender is a social construct on how one identifies or feels about their identity and role in society/culture. Man or woman, typically, but there is a spectrum.

This is a simplification, but if you are truly interested in learning about it you should read up on it: http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/

*Appearance can be "male like" or "female like" without coinciding with the chromosomes in certain cases. For example, in a androgen insensitivity syndrome, an XY individual does not undergo the morphological change associated with male-like features due to a disorder, and thus appear female physically. This person will likely grow up thinking they are a female, identify as a woman, but they are based on chromosomes a male (XY). However, this person should be treated fairly regardless of how they identify, and their biological sex should more or less have no impact on their societal standing or whether they are a "real" woman or not. Long story short, gender and sex can be severely divorced, and reducing it down to pure biology is far too reductionist.
 
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MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,780
This is Bernie's Chaotic Good move to win. Politics. You have to get some of those people to vote for you or you probably won't win.
 

Lashes.541

Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,757
Roseburg Oregon
In simple terms, that would be sex. Sex can be determined via chromosomes (XX vs. XY) or physical appearance/external genitalia*.

Gender is a social construct on how one identifies or feels about their identity and role in society/culture. Man or woman, typically, but there is a spectrum.

*Appearance can be "male like" or "female like" without coinciding with the chromosomes in certain cases. For example, in a androgen insensitivity syndrome, an XY individual does not undergo the morphological change associated with male-like features due to a disorder, and thus appear female physically. This person will likely grow up thinking they are a female, identify as a woman, but they are based on chromosomes a male (XY). However, this person should be treated fairly regardless of how they identify, and their biological sex should more or less have no impact on their societal standing or whether they are a "real" woman or not. Long story short, gender and sex can be severely divorced, and reducing it down to pure biology is far too reductionist.
Okay thanks! I think this is what trips up most Americans, someone thinks gender, they think man/women. Sex makes most people think sexual preference. And I'm betting this is what joe rogan is thinking when he incorrectly states gender is biologically male, female.
 
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