Is this where we are at? "THE Neo Nazi and Bernie Sanders, a Jewish person, would get along." From a mod no less?
We're so fucked in the general.
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Bernie really out here cutting ads with Joe Rogan's endorsement (SEE STAFF POST)
- Thread starter GrapeApes
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We're so fucked in the general.
So you're telling me Joe Rogan is a bigot? Say it ain't so......
i didn't say anything pro-Biden, but thanks for proving my point with the whataboutism
you could have stopped here
so if david duke had the audience and reach of joe rogan you'd be cool with it
because it would help bernie win the primary
like i said
He absolutely criticizes capitalists though, like that's his main message.... so you should tweet him to tewll him he's antagonizing voters
(don't do this he should be critical of capitalists,just like he should of bigots)
You realize Richard Spencer hates black people like me too right? Or is anti-black racism just not a problem for you too?
Clearly it isn't. You've been shrugging Joe Rogan's off the entire thread.
Yes Bernie highlighting the endorsement of an extremely popular comedian/podcaster who occasionally says bigoted shit is the same as the support of an open white nationalist with a tiny audience of nazis.
There are only two candidates who can realistically win the primary, so I assumed you were talking about the racist one.
1. He has passed 3 pieces of "major" legislation. 2 bills renaming post offices in VT, and a veterans bill that could have passed with Hitler and Satan as co-sponsors. The Yemen War Powers bill was close to being number 4, but they couldn't override the veto and almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
2. Voting against stuff is not a legislative accomplishment—especially not when it's a bunch of stuff that passed anyway.
3. Most of his amendments were clerical changes and adjustments to funding amounts, which while helpful to people, shouldn't really be seen as a major legislative accomplishment.
4. I see nothing listed there that specifically benefits black people or targets institutional/systemic racism.
How on earth you read my post like that lol
I mean if there was a Duke endorsement we would definitely not see the Sanders campaign cut video about it, because him and his audience are exponentially worse than Rogans.
Correct em if I'm wrong, but saying people would jump to defend Duke implies you think both him Rogan are in the same ballpark in the US political discourse, no?
We aren't fucking shrugging off how much of a shit heel Rogan is, holy fuck. The point being made is that his endorsement can lead to a lot of apolitical viewers towards Bernie, which can help win the Election.
It's there any evidence that Sanders promised Rogan anything or compromised his values or engaged in bigotry to get this endorsement? We need a broad coalition to which means people with bad opinions about some things. I'm the target of Rogan's reactionary bigotry and I'm not bothered by Sanders being endorsed by Rogan. I don't have to like or respect Rogan.
Implying a Nazi like Spencer would be cool with Sanders, a Jew, and that Sanders would be cool with him is pretty gross. Examine the implications of your statement. It's "Jews helped in the concentration camps"-tier.
User Warned: Antagonzing Other Users
In what? The Dem primary? Lot of independent voters in that group?
Because this shit is over come March
I'm not into performance theater or virtue signaling, just sharing a slice of reality with people who are too tucked into their own echo chamber to know better.
Here's a breakdown for the cultists among us:
I've been to nearly all 50 states. I've lived in about a dozen. I've spent half a decade or better in each of the midwest, southeast, and northeast. In rural, suburban, and urban areas. I've worked, supervised and managed labor, both organized and unorganized.
The average straight white man (i.e. non-college graduate) doesn't just not give a shit about minorities and marginalized groups, they're either wanting them to actively suffer, or are ok with their white friends who want that and are open about it.
I've negotiated directly with union BAs on up to hall presidents. They are, almost without fail, racist. By that I mean when I'd call for a few guys off the bench the first question, understandably, was how long is the job. If its less than a month I'm getting black guys. If its longer than a month they'll be white. This wasn't limited to one hall. This was pulling people out in St. Louis, Kansas City, Urbana-Champaign, and close enough to Indianapolis to pull from there too. Operators, laborers, electricians, carpenters, you name it. Why do they do that? Because after you get pulled you go to the back of the bench. This was supposed to be first on the bench gets first choice. The BAs would call up white workers and make it real clear it was a short term hook.
I have never met a white union worker who isn't super ok with racism, or directly engaging in it themselves.
These are the existing "core" of Sanders "organized movement". This is why if you think you can have their real support and maintain progressive social values you're wrong. This is why I wasn't particularly surprised in '16 when the Midwestern states broke for Trump on the backs of white working class voters. Because large chunks of union members voted Trump or stayed home.
In the southeast unions are a dead item. Despite a far larger population there is no meaningful increase in black and minority engagement with better paying labor/trades jobs. This is intentional. Almost every person in a position to hire someone that I've met is a straight, white man who always has a reason why minority candidates aren't good fits. You can pretty well guess the reasons. Thats from the ones who are low key enough to not make it obvious. But watch one of their guys tell "black" jokes (replace the color with the word you know they prefer) and hear every guy on site snicker and giggle like little kids.
I've reported people up the ladder in several different companies, both where I was working and contractors of mine. As soon as it lands on the desk of a straight white guy it is 95% likely to be dead in the water.
So thats my own ample yet anecdotal experience. Here's the science.
HERE is a study published by the Cambridge University Press proving a direct statistical link between independent and democratic voters who supported Trump specifically BECAUSE he of the racism, not economic policy.
If you'd like to learn more about this studied and now rather inarguable phenomenon that the white working class:
1. defected from Obama/Dems to Trump in '16 at a record pace.
2. did so on the back of his racist rhetoric.
I'd suggest you read:
Why Trump's stoking of white racial resentment is effective - but makes all working-class Americans worse off - By The Conversation, funded by UMass Amherst.
Trump Voters and the White Working Class - Morgan and Lee, Johns Hopkins University, 2018
The First White President - Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Atlantic
The White Working Class and Voter Turnout in U.S. Presiential Elections, 2004 to 2016 - Morgan and Lee, Johns Hopkins University, 2017
Racism is the point. We aren't ready for the fight over class because right now about half of the lower and middle class would prefer staying under the thumb than sharing prosperity with black, brown, and LGBTQ people.
The reality is that unless we first or simultaneously address racism and bigotry in meaningful ways we cannot make economic progress. Too much of this country show up to vote specifically for it, and both the senate and electoral college are constitutionally locked in their favor.
i think rogan is the on-ramp that gets you to david duke eventually
No but he's absolutely focusing on the wrong demographic by looking ahead to the GE.
How about just not highlighting racists assholes of any degree? Or is some level of racism acceptable for Bernie's coalition?
Yup. It's weird that his campaign is acting like it's already the GE.
This is as ridiculous as stating Bernie is on the ramp that gets you to Stalin eventually. Heck, i've seen a few people go down this route- doesn't mean anything.
Other candidates are also looking ahead to the GE. Thats the whole "Lets get the White Working Class" stuff Biden is banking on afterall. But you're acting like Bernie Sanders is now doing nothing but talking about Joe Rogan.
Looking at his Twitter feed he's focusing on a ton of Primary friendly things. AOC literally just had a speech promoting him about how it costs money to go to the ER despite having insurance.
Some of the reactions here would lead you to believe he's a fucking Grand Wizard.
Is he really part of that alt-right pipeline if Rogans reputation that he is confused as shit and just agrees with the last guest he talked to?
I don't listen to the show, so I don't know how he radicalizes people, but seeing him endorse Bernie tells me he is doing a piss poor job lol
Look, in an ideal world, Bernie would be able to be critical of Rogan's bigotry to his face, transforming both his views and those of his audience at large in the process. We would all love that.
I just fundamentally don't think that having the Sanders campaign call Rogan out for being an asshole would be worth potentially losing out on the tangible benefits of a Sanders presidency. Maybe this endorsement doesn't make a difference and this will retroactively be seen as a universally bad move. Yes, then I will agree. But if we can hoodwink a bunch of idiots into voting for an agenda that is entirely counter to their beliefs? If he's able to activate those voters and push toward a win in the primaries, then again in November, it will have been worth it for the health care and civil rights legislation that is sure to follow.
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User Banned (3 weeks): Downplaying bigotry, Account in junior phase
Exactly! There's some mountains being made of molehills. Rogan is the sort of thing that appeals to my brother and his friends. He's a dumb passive bigot but not a committed white nationalist.
So Racist shitheels are fine, just not anti-Jew racist shitheels?
Got it.
No level of racism is remotely acceptable but if the racist asshole (like it or not Rogan is simply just an influential entertainer to many, I doubt much of his audience were even aware of what was posted in this thread) in particular has an amenable audience who can possibly be turned away from racism I'm okay with it. Simply put Rogan is a lot of things to a lot of people.
I don't disagree that Rogan is racist, but the premise here is this is like accepting an endorsement of Spencer and Duke now.
actually the premise is that if he did accept those endorsements y'all would be cool with it
That is effectively shrugging off his racism. "Sure he's racist, but--"
There is no but.
My post is not aimed at Bernie. It's aimed at his fanbase who clearly have a higher threshold than I do for the amount of bigotry they are willing to tolerate on the campaign trail in the pursuit of victory. But fair enough point.
Change the endorsement to David Duke.
A guy who compares black folks to apes is racist. It doesn't really matter to me that there are more racist people out there. Diet racism is just as bad.
What?? The WWC is the largest electorate for both sides. It's not about time spent dude.
Trying to get such marginal, bigoted voting bloc that won't vote in the primary when you're trailing is dumb.
And someone literally posted here that it wouldn't be a bad thing if David Duke flipped and supported Bernie.
Joe Rogan's Podcast is one of the most popular ones out there, to the point where everyone ignored the fucking NEW YORK TIME'S endorsement, while everyone is running around screaming about this one. Its full of impressionable apolitical voters who can be used to obtain victory.
Would you rather they go to Trump instead?
« lol look how dumb Racist white america is, voting against their interests because they are racist »
*racist endorses someone working towards their wellbeing*
« I cannot in good conscience endorse having these racists support a democratic candidate, perish the though! »
This will need to happen before you cure america of it's bigotry, it's inevitable.
Yep.
*racist endorses someone working towards their wellbeing*
« I cannot in good conscience endorse having these racists support a democratic candidate, perish the though! »
This will need to happen before you cure america of it's bigotry, it's inevitable.
Yep.
There might be something to that if Bernie's campaign hadn't made a sizzle reel for Rogan and promoted it through their official twitter account.
That's cool and all.
But Bernie didn't have to gas up Rogan in an ad.
I think I'm in the camp where we just need to hold our noses and get a progressive candidate into the white house. It's a nice thought that we only campaign to the appeal of already good people but times are too drastic I think. If we need to include some assholes in our coalition to win then so be it. To be fair I totally get and appreciate the ideals of people who are against this move, but more active voters voting for our side is critical at this point. Having equality based legislation and messaging coming from top of the government once Sanders is elected would do way more in the long run for our causes than harping on the purity of his base in this moment would.
This kind of rhetoric coming from a mod is highly concerning. You guys have a responsibility to keep things civil, and equating Bernie's campaign with neo-nazism is some serious yikes.
Bigger picture goes out the drain when it comes to Bernie. This endorsement can sway key states voters our way but we rather have 4 more years of Trump.
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