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Bernie really out here cutting ads with Joe Rogan's endorsement (SEE STAFF POST)
- Thread starter GrapeApes
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I dont disagree with the points your making. There are some gaps in the logic, one being, it's not safe to assume we can get the same amount of black voters as Obama did. But, I largely agree with the main point, that we should focus on turnout with our base.Do you though?
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I think it's more important that you don't depress the minority vote in attempting to appeal to White Male voters who barely voted any different when Obama was running for office. You've got Wisconsin loud and proud at how they worked to make voting difficult for Black voters. So ensuring Republicans don't make it harder for minorities to vote is also pretty important. The election came down to around 110,000 voters in a handful of states. Democrats should worry about how they are going to energise their base (minorities - Black women especially - are their most consistent voting base) to come out and vote. Also, make sure Republicans don't make it hard for them to do so.
Romney and Trump's percentage of the White Male votes are essentially the same. So even there the White Male voters whom Hillary lost that voted Obama, ended up going to third party candidates and not Trump. Also Hillary has an increase over Obama from White women. But her vote share amongst minorities were less than Obama's.
Nonetheless We still need white male voters. If we can attract white male voters without compromising our platform we increase the chances of winning against Trump/Biden. It's as simple as that, and the way we need to move forward if we want to win.
It goes without saying, we need to increase voting among PoC, young people, and every other demographic.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time. This is not an either or situation.
2018 was won on the backs of apolitical and centrist White folks in the cities/suburbs who have been outraged by Trump and the GOP's behaviour. The moderate Dem caucus outnumbers the socialist/progressive caucus by a large margin. That's not to say stuff like a public option, marijuana legalization, Puerto Rico statehood, etc. can't be done. Millenials and Gen Z voters are significantly more liberal than Boomer and Gen X voters. As time goes on the average moderate Dem will become more liberal as older more conservative, Whiter dems die off.
As much as I hate to admit it, the Democrats right now still need the votes of moderate types to win. Especially with GOP gerrymandering and the stupid Senate in the way. Biden, Bernie, Warren will all have to pander to these morons. Personally I'd rather Warren or Sanders be the one to do that, because at least they aren't already a centrist moron like Biden.
People keep saying that but it's a huge reach imo. I can't believe anyone would seriously think that Bernie would throw the smallest marginalized groups under the bus before any of the other major Dem candidates would.
this is why this thread is so frustrating. you hit the nail on the head. baffling that Sanders isn't good enough for some but any of the other democrats are despite in their own words and policies not being as progressive.
Like I get that the association with a pos like Rogan can dredge up some shitty feelings but imo a lot of people itt are letting that make them completely lose sight of the bigger picture.
So the goal isn't to defeat Trump? Or it is?
Because from where I'm sitting, and I don't particularly care for any of the Dem candidates, Bernie voters exercising their right to not vote because their preferred candidate didn't win the nomination have no degree of separation from Trump voters here.
Imagine having the privilege to throw a hissy fit because a party continues to fail spectacularly when it comes to being progressive but hey, whatever, let me also fuck over marginalized people because guess what, I don't really fucking care about them even though I pretend to on the internet.
You uppity blacks are going to cause us to fall into fascism! Why won't you just fall in line for *check notes* the Democratic primaries.
That's the thing though, every candidate is problematic in some way, where's the better candidate? Every single candidate has huge issues imo.
Essentially. If people raising concern over running an ad of this endorsement is what causes Trump to win then Bernie was doomed from the start, and I say that as a volunteer for his campaign.
The fact that they are attempting to do outreach to Rogan's base during the primaries is so stupid. None of them are the Democratic nominee, and you don't win the Democratic nomination without the support of minority voters (in some southern states, they make up more than half the total democratic voting base). Secure the Democratic nomination, and then discuss how you're going to broaden support during the general election.
*I think that even in the general you don't water down your message for a voting bloc, that has been pretty consistent for 40 years in how they don't care about your platform regardless of who you have as the nominee, if it means minorities benefit as well. But what do I know.
It just goes to show how little value minorities are to some of these politicians, and how the minority vote is expected and taken for granted by democrats.
You need a firm support amongst women and minorities to win the Democratic nomination. Why are these candidates running their primary campaigns as if they're in the general?
Those idealogical groups are caused because the US's part system means the democrats ranges from leftists/centre-left all the way to centre right with the majority being centrists. People being mad about Bernie signal boosting Rogan aren't the ones causing that nor are the ones of them who are also his supporters saying that this now means they won't vote for him. Nor are most of the non Bernie supporters saying they definitely won't vote for him in the general. Stop pulling the "left unity" bullshit
User warned: Inflammatory generalizations.
The Bernie supporters will ignore it.
Or maybe Clinton and Obama were pragmatic enough to take what they could pass?
As someone who actually voted for Obama when he ran for office in Illinois, the views he espoused then and the views he had as POTUS weren't dramatically different. He passed a lot of policy that was towards the center because it was what he could pass.
For Bernie voters to see that even Biden is miles better than Trump. This isn't hard. This very thread is full of Bernie supporters talking about the overall need to win, and therefore the problems with this endorsement should just be ignored.
When the real way to fascism is for the ~16% of Sanders supporters in the above poll who are Bernie ride or die to start listening to Rogan, catch a few Murray interviews, decide that the real problem with the socialist movement is that we keep including the intellectually inferior brown people.
Gets a lot easier to pay for UBI and Medicare for All with ~20% of the population discounted, just sayin'.
I can think of just as many left leaning people on as have been listed here tbh. And when some crazies like Candace Owen have come on they have been left looking pretty foolish.
His show isn't the right wing propaganda house it has been portrayed as on here, though that doesn't excuse some of his past comments.
Stand up comedians are pretty crass and loathsome individuals.
I don't listen to every episode he puts out but when there is a good guest on it's a decent format and you usually get a side to the guest that you dont find elsewhere.
And this is a failing on the party as a whole. Fuck the two party system.
Democrats have taken advantage of the reliable democratic minority vote for decades selling us promises and selling us false hope while having no intention of doing anything other than fucking us over repeatedly.
Really disappointed that this is the best we can manage to oppose Trump and a wildly out of control white nationalist party.
"Perfect is the enemy of good" - We shouldn't try to be better.
"Purity test" - Your concerns and safety don't matter as much as our candidate does.
Guys, let's win this thing first. The gulags and conversion therapy can come afterwards.
No, but really, I also think he probably could have done without the ad but the endorsement is really really important.
Also, all other candidates tried getting on his show so... are we canceling all candidates now? Come on
No, but really, I also think he probably could have done without the ad but the endorsement is really really important.
Also, all other candidates tried getting on his show so... are we canceling all candidates now? Come on
The universe of socially liberal but economically conservative voters is much much much larger than the inverse. Sacrificing the former at the altar of the latter is a losing electoral strategy. Yeah, there were a handful of bigots on welfare who flipped from Obama to Trump, but there was a much larger group of normally reliable Democratic voters who just stayed home. Focus on getting them, not pandering to the neanderthals Rogan promotes.
Any Dem is better than the monstrosity that is the GOP and Trump. Even a moron like Biden or the ex-ONI agent.
I absolutely love that in a thread with a drowning current of we have to be pragmatic to beat Trump, so bragging about an endorsement from a massive transphobic racist is great, we also have someone arguing that it's completely understandable if Sanders voters don't vote for the Dem nominee if Sanders loses the primary.
I say one thing about the current right wing, at least they will call me a nigger to my face. While "Allies" will jump through hoops on why it is not only ok, but I probably deserved. At least the GOP is honest with themselves. That is why the offical motto of Black Americans is "Laugh to keep from crying".
I don't like Joe and think criticism of him is completely valid, especially when he boosts really stupid ideologies, but I'm not sure why we would look at it as a bad thing to go after his audience. Every bit matters, and Joe has a large audience.
What I find weird about the idea that some are peddling here that Bernie needed to do this to win over the centrists/right is that its been my understanding that Bernie already does appeal to non voters already? Bernie didn't need to signal boost Rogan to do so, plus as strategy the ad doesn't do anything that him being interviewed by Rogan doesn't already do in regards to winning over his fans?
its not the endorsement people are upset about, its how Bernie has responded to it. If Rogan wants to convince his fans to vote Bernie thats fine, but Bernie's campaign helping to legitimise a racist transphobe is something I'd have loved to have not happened during a time where the left is already having to fight the bigots masquerading as fellow leftists that are already part of our movement on basic human decency
I agree with you, but I don't think screaming about how bad every candidate is, every day, is doing anything other than setting us up for 4 (or more) years of Trumpy bear.
You mean the same Sanders who in 2016 continually pushed a narrative that all problems are economic problems, until BLM were jumping on stages and grabbing mics?
Or maybe the same Sanders who spent much of 2016 hanging with white voters telling them that the Dems trade policies were stealing their jobs and giving them to foreigners, despite the majority of economic assessments indicating that globalizing trade was net neutral to net positive for the U.S. while helping trade partners modernize at faster rates?
The same guy who had some real problem just last year with compensation for his staff while campaigning on a massive minimum wage hike?
Nope, Sanders never acts in a manner opposite to how he speaks or ignored minority voices. Sure.
so let's just get Bernie the nom and it won't matter...
Good god, what a disgrace. All of them need to start hammering it's all about beating Trump no matter who wins.
The scary thing is people really have convinced themselves that these people are actually willing to support Sanders and progressive policies instead of just doing what Joe Rogan, somebody who has no convictions other than being an unrepentant bigot, tells them to do.
All the talk about inviting them into the party and rehabilitating them and expanding their naive world view... well, there isn't really much of that that's grounded in any reality that I'm seeing.
Voter who are both socially liberal and fiscally conservative (aka Classical Liberals and Libertarians) are actually the smallest electoral group in America. Poor folks have no love for small governments and they can be just as bigoted, if not even more, than rich people.
As someone who's (probably?) trans, the fact that Bernie's the only candidate with a true M4A pretty much automatically makes him the best candidate for trans people because of how unequivocally helpful such a policy is for people going through transition. If appealing to Rogan's meathead base of straight dudes that's questionable-at-best (and reprehensible at worst) wrt trans people could be meaningfully helpful in getting him the nom (which I think it is, since Rogan's base is massive), I'm for it. Unfortunately most of America isn't going to accept us fully 100% yet so trans people are going to essentially have to work with people who hate us in order to pass legislation that makes the world a better place. It sucks but that's how politics work.
"Vote Blue no matter who is manipulative bullshit so you better vote for Sanders or we're staying home!"
so what exactly would you do with these people if you're not willing to try and change them? Shoot them into the sun?
But I thought it was about defeating Trump? That's what's been said over and over again in this thread to justify Joe Rogan. I guess it only applies if Bernie is the candidate?
Social liberal, and fiscal conservative voters (aka Classical Liberals and Libertarians) are actually the smallest electoral group in America. Poor folks have no love for small governments and they can be just as bigoted, if not even more, than rich people.
Yes, here's a larger article on it: https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond
The domination of such people in the media really colors people's perception. They really don't exist outside of the beltway and some big cities.
Don't you see? The ends justify the means.
Please understand why this only implies to my candidate.
We must do everything we can to defeat Trump, except vote for the nominee if it isn't Sanders!
No body look at the South Carolina/ South polling numbers
I wish people would stop taking Rogan's word on this.
Biden can't handle pushback for shit, but his team is just dying to set him up with someone who doesn't like him? Warren won't go on Fox News because of the bigotry, but she wouldn't be at all concerned with how going on Rogan's show would look? Even Mayor Pete's team would know he would be in for a very rough time at best.
Even if those things were true, do you guys honestly believe that Rogan would turn down the opportunity to make the candidates he doesn't like look bad and make money at the same time? Has Rogan ever demonstrated that sort of principle before?
There's no reason to believe he's telling the truth.
Yeah- this is my 12th Presidential election. I don't need you to explain to me how factions inside of parties work or the role they play in the primary process.
Just last week, we went through a 50-page thread (and only because it was eventually locked) filled with knife-fighting between the camps of the two most closely-aligned candidates in the race....about a fucking handshake.
If me pointing out that I'm starting to get concerned over the idea of a 2016 repeat is somehow equatable to "left unity bullshit" - then so be it.
What's yours? This moved the needle in the right direction for a block of voters, and didn't even register on the radar of another block.
If the Democrats only took good people votes, there wouldn't be a Democratic party at all.
So what if compromise #1 to get M4A is that transitioning is elective and therefore not covered?
Actually make an effort to reach their bigoted closed minds by having the balls to call out Joe Rogan's harmful rhetoric and make more of an effort to educate his cult like followers instead of simply accepting his endorsement and parading it around in a self serving video?
What is the democratic party's plan to counteract all that they've been conditioned to reinforce in their beliefs? These people aren't going to become progressive champions just because.
I'm not sure how much overlap there is between the people on that graph and posters on resetera.
Bernie should have killed his chance with most people in 2016 and even more so in this primary but here we are even with his policies, I don't get why anyone would support him to be the nominee.
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