Apparently pointing out that Maddy Myers may not have had the best judgment in the past about what she decided to post publicly online for everyone to see is considered drive-by shitposting and character assassination now.
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Ben Kuchera seems to have been replaced at Polygon by Maddy Myers for freelance pitches and opinion editing
- Thread starter Naga
- Start date
Waiting for this too. People are talking about her jokes and bad takes but not posting them.
I've never had an opinion piece altered from my original trajectory and would be very upset if it was done, especially without my consultation. I've generally only ever been edited for brevity/clarity.
User Banned (3 days): Antagonizing other users
Of course you're in here defending this lmao.
I think most people would defend colleagues if they see unwarranted attacks.
That "joke" was gross, I don't see the problem with people calling it out.
That's your opinion and I don't see an issue thinking the joke was inappropriate but calling it out shouldn't equal every time her name is brought up to unfairly bash her and her abilities as an editor, which I think 99% of us aren't qualified to do anyway.
It'd be like if I had an issue with something you posted once, to bring it up every single time you posted. It'd be a bit much I'd think.
I never said if it was relevant to her new job or not. I only commented that what writers write is remembered and consistently saying after the fact that it "was a joke" is a pointless exercise.
It's what i don't get. Kuchera has shown his ass so many times that shown he hasn't changed. I don't need to look at newer stuff to believe that he is the same old troll he always was but maybe he's better who knows.
Is it okay to point out hurtful stuff she's said about lesbians though? Or is that not allowed?
Yeah it feels tacky at this point.
He still does the RebelFM podcast if you want to hear him discuss gaming.
I don't really disagree with you but it happens for basically every single person on this website so it's not something that should be surprising I think. Also I was only really responding to Jason seemingly downplaying the "joke", not casting any judgement on Maddy's ability as an editor.
You don't need any luck playing single player games offline on PS4. Never had to manually disconnect the network connection even!
For those who don't understand the context behind the joke- she was criticizing TLOU2's hamhanded "revenge bad" message. Pointing out that you can convey that message without making a 30 hour long game full of grotesque torture and murder revolving around queer women. Pointing out that even the fictional/gamified killing of people can be hurtful.
In short, if you're disgusted by the joke, you should be disgusted by the game.
In short, if you're disgusted by the joke, you should be disgusted by the game.
For the online bit, I was suggesting that they bet on people always being online at least once every 24 hours of play time. And they were largely correct. Sorry it was unclear.
Speaking of unclear, I have NO idea what you mean by the last line there.
I haven't played the game and don't know anything about Maddy, but that seems like a take dripping with homophobia and gatekeeping. Gross.
- Maddy Myers has a girlfriend.
- She should be able to criticize Naughty Dog's portrayal of the Ellie-Dina relationship within the lens of her own relationships. She spoke/wrote about her thoughts eloquently (in my opinion) and at great length on multiple podcasts and in writing.
- Generalizing that specific, targeted criticism to "hurtful stuff... about lesbians" is inflammatory and untrue.
A high number of queer women (myself included) previously took the time and energy to talk about how deeply hurtful they found Maddy's gatekeeping of queerness over the last of us. Unfortunately though, lots of dudes on this forum want to dismiss the voices of a dozen queer women telling them something is hurtful to defend Maddy's gatekeeping. Its another reminder that Era is not as progressive as it likes to think it is.
But do you? After you download the patches, do you then take your console offline for the remainder of the experience? Or do you stay hooked into trophies and friends and streaming and sharing photos and the like? It's not that you "can't" it's that hardly anyone does unless forced by an outage or something.
Xbox was betting at the time that the vast majority of gamers would have their consoles connected virtually all the time. That was a correct assumption. You need to connect when you set up your box, and most people never purposely break that connection for the lifetime of the usage.
It's not a matter of "can you", but rather "does anyone?"
I'm not saying it was a good idea for the time, and it was presented horribly. But the underlying assumption about where the generation would lead in terms of gamers' behaviors was spot on.
Maddy Myers having a girlfriend doesn't make her immune from having garbage takes about fictional queer relationships. It doesn't mean I can't criticize her about those dogshit takes.
I've read her takes and even listened to her bringing it up in that Waypoint podcast and she's the one who generalized her criticism to queer relationships like Ellie's. So yeah, I'm gonna speak up about that. How is saying Ellie could be replaced by a straight man and nothing would change an okay thing to say at all?
User Banned (1 month): Inflammatory rhetoric
"I have black friends"
Because what she's saying is that the queerness being portrayed in TLOU doesn't represent her at all? Like that's all she means? That the relationship would have the same amount of representational value to her in either situation?
uh, no. there's a difference between saying you know someone in order defend your position, and actually being someone. Maddy Myers is a queer woman, not she knows one.
Yeah. Its super gross. People want to pretend this is a two sided issue. Like... "on one side you have several queer women offended by what maddy said, but since maddy is a queer woman too her voice is valid."
But it really just fucking isn't. If I saw myself in Ellie, if I related so heavily to her as a character,felt it was the first time I ever saw someone like myself in a video game. And then maddy comes along and proudly amplifies and agrees with a straight dude on twitter saying "Actually its the same exact thing if Ellie was a straight man" that is a direct attack on me and girls like me. It is an attack on our identities. It IS just hurtful gatekeeping. This isn't a nuanced conversation. Like I've said before: I do not have to defend my existence.
This is not the take. She is a queer person, not someone with queer friends. She's just a shitty person who happens to be queer.
It still doesn't make you immune to criticism about the subject...It's not a shield lol
Do you have a response to the other two points in the original post though?
It's one thing if that's all she said but she went further and said that Ellie and Dina's relationship was a heteronormative relationship made for a straight audience. She then said that Ellie could be replaced by a straight man and it wouldn't have made a difference. That's not offensive?
That she should be able to criticize Naughty Dog's portrayal of lesbians? Of course she can, why wouldn't she be able to? But why are you getting mad when people are criticizing her for her take? Keep the same energy.
You can be queer and still have garbage opinions and positions on queer issues. Crazy, I know.
Also, Schreier caping her with "it was just a joke" is disappointing as hell, even though not completely surprising, if I'm being totally honest.
Also, Schreier caping her with "it was just a joke" is disappointing as hell, even though not completely surprising, if I'm being totally honest.
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User Banned (1 month): Accusing a queer woman of internalised homophobia
EDIT: I JUST WANT TO SAY I'M REALLY SORRY IF THE WAY I EXPRESSED MYSELF FELT LIKE I WAS ACCUSING HER.
I wanted to talk about the subject of "internalized homophobia" not to blame her. I shouldn't even get involved in this thread for starters since I have 0 knowledge about this person.
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I'm not familiar with her work or personal life, I just want to add to this conversation that internalized homophobia exists
en.wikipedia.org
Internalized homophobia refers to negative stereotypes, beliefs, stigma, and prejudice about homosexuality and LGBT people that a person with same-sex attraction turns inward on themselves, whether or not they identify as LGBT.[12][64][65] The degree to which someone is affected by these ideas depends on how much and which ideas they have consciously and subconsciously internalized.[66] These negative beliefs can be mitigated with education, life experience and therapy,[65][67] especially with gay-friendly psychotherapy/analysis.[68] Internalized homophobia also applies to conscious or unconscious behaviors which a person feels the need to promote or conform to cultural expectations of heteronormativity or heterosexism. This can include extreme repression and denial coupled with forced outward displays of heteronormative behavior for the purpose of appearing or attempting to feel "normal" or "accepted." Other expressions of internalized homophobia can also be subtle. Some less overt behaviors may include making assumptions about the gender of a person's romantic partner, or about gender roles.[12] Some researchers also apply this label to LGBT people who support "compromise" policies, such as those that find civil unions acceptable in place of same-sex marriage.[69]
I wanted to talk about the subject of "internalized homophobia" not to blame her. I shouldn't even get involved in this thread for starters since I have 0 knowledge about this person.
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I'm not familiar with her work or personal life, I just want to add to this conversation that internalized homophobia exists
Homophobia - Wikipedia
Internalized homophobia refers to negative stereotypes, beliefs, stigma, and prejudice about homosexuality and LGBT people that a person with same-sex attraction turns inward on themselves, whether or not they identify as LGBT.[12][64][65] The degree to which someone is affected by these ideas depends on how much and which ideas they have consciously and subconsciously internalized.[66] These negative beliefs can be mitigated with education, life experience and therapy,[65][67] especially with gay-friendly psychotherapy/analysis.[68] Internalized homophobia also applies to conscious or unconscious behaviors which a person feels the need to promote or conform to cultural expectations of heteronormativity or heterosexism. This can include extreme repression and denial coupled with forced outward displays of heteronormative behavior for the purpose of appearing or attempting to feel "normal" or "accepted." Other expressions of internalized homophobia can also be subtle. Some less overt behaviors may include making assumptions about the gender of a person's romantic partner, or about gender roles.[12] Some researchers also apply this label to LGBT people who support "compromise" policies, such as those that find civil unions acceptable in place of same-sex marriage.[69]
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Maddy is a great editor! She edited my piece here without compromising on the content:
The personal experiences that Lev and Yara’s actors brought to The Last of Us Part 2
"I would take a hammer to the arm for any of my siblings, and I know they’d do the same for me."www.polygon.com
That was a great article, thank you for that.
I think because of the nature of their job when you see that they are clearly not impartial and they reveal over time some really questionable belief systems that show up over and over it's not something you just brush under the rug.
Conversely people might take issue with JC at times but no one is questioning his integrity and ethics over the job he does.
I'll give you a good example. I love Bill Simmons and I have been following most of his stuff since I was a kid but a couple questionable articles he has let out made me uncomfortable and this latest thing with Lebron James - The Decision has made me not only avoid pretty much everything from him but has changed my view of the guy as a professional completely
I don't think it's a stretch to say that the protagonist's relationship in a AAA game is written for a straight audience, 99% of everything in the world is made for a straight audience. I also don't think it's offensive for her to say that it wouldn't make a difference, a critic's opinions are their reactions to their experience, not attempts to proclaim universal truths.
You mean you'd then would also have to be disgusted by the game... if you shared the take that TLOU2 boils down to a hamfisted "revenge bad" story.
Something that clearly not everyone does.
She criticized their precious movie-game that finally proves to mom and dad that "Games are art," so to them she must be destroyed.
EDIT: Jesus Christ, now Maddy is driven by internalized homophobia? You guys are really something else.
Calling a queer relationship heteronormative is not it. Saying the first lesbian protagonist of a AAA game that clearly resonates with so many queer women is interchangeable with a straight dude is especially not it. I don't know if a productive discussion can be had when we can't even agree on that basic premise. It doesn't matter, I'll keep calling out harmful shit like that anyway.
Imagine "joking" about killing people and thinking it'd be funny to share it with people on the internet. unwarranted lol... If a co-worker said this to me I'd give them the wtf look, same if it was family or friends.
Good news. Now Kuchera can finally go join his fellow corporate bootlicker Arthur Gies in irrelevancy.
I don't think I'd put money on Polygon suddenly becoming a place of quality content even with him being booted out though, but I guess we'll see.
I don't think I'd put money on Polygon suddenly becoming a place of quality content even with him being booted out though, but I guess we'll see.
It honestly is as simple as that. Other queer women can express their hurt over what we perceive as her gatekeeping queerness but we don't need other people steaming in with their hot takes about how she is a homophobe or other garbage words to that effect. It's possible to criticise what she wrote and discuss the harm such rhetoric causes without making it personal or diminishing her queerness.
Great article!Maddy is a great editor! She edited my piece here without compromising on the content:
The personal experiences that Lev and Yara’s actors brought to The Last of Us Part 2
"I would take a hammer to the arm for any of my siblings, and I know they’d do the same for me."
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Good for Maddy, I think she's a great person to take on this role! Pretty shitty the stuff that Ben was doing.
People keep quoting that post without reading the first sentence, its weird. The point is Arthur's "impartiality" isn't relevant to the discussion here. The dude writes about routers or whatever for the New York Times now. There's no rug to brush his video game takes under, he's in an entirely different room.
I don't particularly care what you would do in such a situation, I responded to the people bringing it up every time her name is mentioned. It's unwarranted to attack her journalistic abilities because of people having an issue with something she said. It'd be like saying that Hideo Kojima is a bad games designer because of the depiction of Quiet in Metal Gear Solid V. There is something to be critical of there obviously but the rush to attack her is really based on one real issue. Her takes on TLOU2 were not welcome by many (for various reasons, some rational, others not) and the joke serves as a perfect way to attack her without addressing the criticisms.
I just think it's unfair and we should celebrate that there's a queer person that has a role like that at a publication like Polygon, no matter how you feel about her or Polygon.
Little does he know that the router wars are more toxic than ever.