OP it's pretty fucked up to force others to step on landmines and then accuse them of being a GamerGater while basing this entire thread on very vague tweets from someone who is reportedly also very shitty to their freelance writers.
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Ben Kuchera calls out former employers, Penny Arcade, for killing stories that could hurt income
- Thread starter Unclebenny
- Start date
On one hand, these guys are notorious for making rape jokes, and then making merch about rape jokes, and from almost every account, are kinda assholes in real life.
On the other hand, this guy had some bad takes, and is also an asshole in real life.
I will go with the greater sin, making clickbait.
But really, people acting like there's not like 2000 articles on Polygon you can search through. I looked at a handful and it's mostly....uh just kinda boring? The most controversial maybe being "why would anyone shop at gamestop" for recent stuff.
If you google "Ben Kuchera Polygon hot take" nearly every search result is like, GG affilitiated, or bitching about the fact he covered Zoe Quinn while also contributing to her Patreon, or being kind of a baby about guns in a VR gun game.
On the other hand, this guy had some bad takes, and is also an asshole in real life.
I will go with the greater sin, making clickbait.
But really, people acting like there's not like 2000 articles on Polygon you can search through. I looked at a handful and it's mostly....uh just kinda boring? The most controversial maybe being "why would anyone shop at gamestop" for recent stuff.
If you google "Ben Kuchera Polygon hot take" nearly every search result is like, GG affilitiated, or bitching about the fact he covered Zoe Quinn while also contributing to her Patreon, or being kind of a baby about guns in a VR gun game.
Don't like either but Ben is already shady as hell so I will need proof.
Bolded for truth and some people have already posted those tweets.
I don't even have a dog in this race but I REALLY don't like how OP and Daouzin have been trying to pass of concerns of Ben's legitimacy as being a Gamergater. At this point you are essentially acting like trolls needing attention and I will now ignore you both as such.
Bolded for truth and some people have already posted those tweets.
I don't even have a dog in this race but I REALLY don't like how OP and Daouzin have been trying to pass of concerns of Ben's legitimacy as being a Gamergater. At this point you are essentially acting like trolls needing attention and I will now ignore you both as such.
i believe this happened if only solely based on Penny Arcade's history 🤷🏻‍♀️ This is even with my less than stellar opinion of Ben Kuchera as a journalist—it just makes sense to have happened.
expressing doubt over Kuchera doesn't make you a GGer though. Sometimes it's hard to find evidence (esp since twitter archives tweets past a certain point if you tweet often enough iirc) that someone is sketchy esp when it's only been discussed informally.
expressing doubt over Kuchera doesn't make you a GGer though. Sometimes it's hard to find evidence (esp since twitter archives tweets past a certain point if you tweet often enough iirc) that someone is sketchy esp when it's only been discussed informally.
I don't have an opinion either way about Ben Kuchera but I find this whole premise a little silly... I'm supposed to be clutching my pearls over the journalistic integrity of some dudes who write an irreverent webcomic?
Well as long as you're willing to admit it. I'm glad we could find common ground on this issue.
In the context of the PA Report, yes actually. The whole thrust behind the PAR was "you can't trust those OTHER sell out gaming websites to tell you the TRUTH. Get it straight from us, uncut, no spin, raw reporting!"
They specifically branched out to make a gaming news outlet "free" of all the things the supposedly shady big sites were up to. Ben was selected to be EIC specifically because he was very vocal at the time about ethics issues, they wanted his rep on that to set them apart. It wasn't part of the comic or supposed to be pure fluff, it was marketed and presented as a real journalistic effort.
So yeah, they can't hide behind the "we're just entertainers!" defense on this one.
Well, a decade is a long ass time. PA days were ancient to a lot of people.
Yep. Anyone who was on GAF knew who he was during the 360/PS3 years.
When gamergate started and the hordes started screaming about journalistic standards in the gaming industry, I remember thinking "You're just fucking figuring that out now?" (That was a cover for their real cause, of course.)
There was debate way back in the '90s among the gaming press over whether they should even call themselves journalists, with many on the sensible side saying "no".
User Banned (2 Weeks): unsubstantiated accusation, extreme hostility
Pretty obvious UncleBENny is Ben Kuchera himself. No one who's even been associated with Ben has defended him so adamantly. If you think you're taking some sort of moral high ground against Penny Arcade because they (not a news source) made you edit articles - I think you've come to the wrong part of the internet. They're a garbage organization for their jokes about rape, you're garbage for reposting that article on Brad Wardall and then never apologizing that you were too lazy to do any research yourself. You're filth. Post elsewhere please.
OP
OP
No I said a lot of the tactics I remember from the height of GG are being used here.
I made a post saying I was surprised at the amount of the GG style responses to this, which I am. I am not calling everyone a GG but there is a surprising amount of that here.
Obviously there is a lot of ill will to Kuchera but there has barely even been any detail provided. Never mind evidence, someone just tell me why there are dozens of people saying he is a bad egg.
Is he rude, offensive, dismissive of progressive concerns, has a troubling history of interactions with a particular group?
All I've seen is general gestures towards him being an unreliable narrator with nothing of substance to back that up. At best I've been provided with a bunch of GG style talking points.
Maybe he is a terrible person, I don't know, at worst, from the example provided, he might be a bit of a dick? I've certainly not seen enough to instantly discredit everything he ever does from now on.
I'm inclined to believe this lol who even defends someone from a decade ago no one has heard since?
1. He mentioned several items that would require some communication such chiding him for taking vacation/family time.
2. I didn't dismiss the allegations, you were asking others for proof regarding their allegations against the author in contrast with the story. I'm saying even Ben's allegations don't provide proof it's still conjecture. Regarding his controversial posts? Those are on the old site somewhere though I'm not going to take the time to dig them up.
3. I would argue the power dynamics at play between alleging sexual assault, which society has traditionally placed a portion of the blame on the victim, vs. a well-ish known journalist speaking out about a medium (?) sized gaming website are very different. Sure if it distill it purely down to powerful vs less powerful but that's taking out all the nuance.
4. Like I said I'm not passing judgement either way I just haven't seen anything substantial to back up his allegations. If I were to do a what would he gain scenario, I'd say possibly further notoriety of which he doesn't seem to shy aware from. But once again purely hypothetical.
OP
OP
Yes, it's me, you found me out. If you check my post history, you'll see it is mostly full of stealth attempt to signal boost myself.
Its wild to think that someone believes that Era is filled with a bunch of GG's and instead ignore the fact that most of us who have been posting for 10+ years here and other places have bad memories of the dude. The problem is that Ben's highest points were two console generations ago, making it hard to give a good snapshot of why he was such a dick.
If he has proof/receipts he should bring them forward. It would be another nail in the coffin of PA, a absolutely scummy company.
Don't get mad when people have a visceral reaction to Ben, especially if you weren't around to during his heady days.
If he has proof/receipts he should bring them forward. It would be another nail in the coffin of PA, a absolutely scummy company.
Don't get mad when people have a visceral reaction to Ben, especially if you weren't around to during his heady days.
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OP
OP
1. That could quite easily be done over the phone? Or in the office after he returned from vacation? All I'm saying is that this kind of thing can quite easily have no paper trail and we shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't.
2. I was asking for proof (now I'm just asking for some sodding detail) because the first reaction from a lot of people was dismissal, with no explanation. When I asked for that detail or evidence I was ignored or dismissed. Some more detail has been provided but I still don't see how that is enough to instantly dismiss his cclaims.
3. I more meant in the response to the claim. i.e. it is very hard for someone to leave an organisation and then provide evidence of their malpractice later. Then the reaction of "I need to see receipts" or "I'll wait for the court case" are counter productive. I was hesitant to use that comparison but I think it is useful in some regards. Saying that , it ends up being so emotive it may not useful.
4.What notoriety would he gain and what would he do with it? Apparently he is actively disliked by many. Anyone in the public eye knows going after a gaming darling will only ever bring the trolls to your door and not much else. It's all hypothetical but he has done nothing controversial for literally year because multiple people can barely find anything, why would he suddenly start again now.
Like I can both believe that PA was (is?) shitty about stuff like this, while also believing that Ben is probably not being super forthcoming about "all" the details, and also himself a shitty person.
I would really like to see him at least mention what those stories might have been, because I can't see who PA would've had as advertisers at the time that he could've pissed off "that" badly.
I would really like to see him at least mention what those stories might have been, because I can't see who PA would've had as advertisers at the time that he could've pissed off "that" badly.
Looking through this thread I'm personally not seeing it. And to be clear I don't have a dog in this fight. I haven't frequented PA in years and I only vaguely remember Ben.
But I'm not really seeing anything in here I would consider "GG style responses."
Just a few posts ago there was someone angry about his "mistreatment" of pro-GG developer Stardock.
I missed that one but is that really representative of this thread? Or maybe I'm missing what is meant by GG style defense?
EDIT:
So here's his metric:
Personally, that strikes me as a bit nebulous to link it to GG, outside of the specific example you provided, which does seem legitimate.
User Banned (3 Days): Antagonizing Fellow Member, drive by post
Ben Kuchera starts a Ben Kuchera Apologist thread. Site is wild.
Thanks for the information. I don't even remember the Penny Arcade Report but tbh it's been years since I've closely followed their output.
I dunno if "Gamers were angry at this dude 10 -15 years ago" is really a solid foundation of belief. Like, don't trust Gamers collective anger in general, but certainly not gamers collective anger 2 generations ago.
There was probably a lot of huge threads on neofgaf 10+ years ago that were angry about shit we'd probably find as common sense nowadays.
Like, do you think GAF was a good place for discussion of sexist female designs 15 years ago? I really doubt it.
There was probably a lot of huge threads on neofgaf 10+ years ago that were angry about shit we'd probably find as common sense nowadays.
Like, do you think GAF was a good place for discussion of sexist female designs 15 years ago? I really doubt it.
OP
OP
To try and draw a line under this, as it's gotten wildly out of hand, the first page had numerous people dismiss the claims based on the person making them. That's fine, I asked why but no one gave me a straight answer. They told me to "do my own research".
One person went looking for info linked to something then quickly deleted it when they realised it was KiA related.
There was also a bunch of "all of gaming journalism is corrupt"
Also as he now works for Polygon, he is a prime target for GG.
I saw loads of this at the height of GG. Labeling people as X then only pointing to unrelated evidence.
My problem is, there are lots of people in here asserting that Kuchera is a wrong 'un but no one has any specifics. No explanation, just a lot of "you weren't there" "why would we all say this if it wasn't true".
Maybe it is true but right now I'm totally confused as to what was wrong with his behavior in the past. What was he doing to annoy everyone? What was so egregious that he should be totally discredited right now? Was it truly deplorable and I shouldn't trust a word he says?
Honestly, from Kuchera's own response to the closure of PA report, it seems he held many of these wrong headed ideas about inherently corrupt gaming journalism himself. Maybe he's a total moron. I just can't see what is bringing such opprobrium out of this forum and what I can see seems to be related to GG.
No prob, they've started and shuttered so many different projects/spin-offs it's hard to keep track of them all.
The Mario Kart graph guy? Or am I confusing him for someone else?
I don't have a bone in this fight, I can totally see the allegations being true.
That would make even more sense if PA pushed their outlet as a "true journalism without BS, we won't lie to you like the other guys".
If you have an outlet pushing for this, 90% of the time it's because they're pushing BS and lies.
I don't have a bone in this fight, I can totally see the allegations being true.
That would make even more sense if PA pushed their outlet as a "true journalism without BS, we won't lie to you like the other guys".
If you have an outlet pushing for this, 90% of the time it's because they're pushing BS and lies.
I mean, compared to now? Absolutely.
I've been around since then. I never understood the hate Ben got back then, either. All I remember is some console wars stuff and people being angry that he supposedly promoted Xbox or Playstation (don't remember which he was accused of...). There were a ton of people saying similar things about Digital Foundry at the time, which was laughable. And yeah, he probably had some bad take articles. But I don't remember him being a liar. This stuff tends to get amplified and influenced by god knows what in peoples' memories over the years, and then people dog pile with dismissive comments and don't produce any evidence. There's still no evidence in this thread after 4 pages. Just "trust me."
I'm no fan of Kuchera, and in the pre-GG days I have to admit I had some of the same "game journalism sucks" sentiment that became an excuse for all the shitty stuff GG did, but I believe him about this.
To this day I don't really read Polygon because they have a few people I've never liked much on their staff. Feels like I'm just setting myself up to be annoyed when I go there. I'm also willing to believe the allegations against Kuchera as an editor. PA dudes are still trash though, and I'm willing to believe Kuchera was able to write whatever he wanted at Ars and Polygon because his work feels like he's allowed to just write whatever he feels like, for better or worse.
To this day I don't really read Polygon because they have a few people I've never liked much on their staff. Feels like I'm just setting myself up to be annoyed when I go there. I'm also willing to believe the allegations against Kuchera as an editor. PA dudes are still trash though, and I'm willing to believe Kuchera was able to write whatever he wanted at Ars and Polygon because his work feels like he's allowed to just write whatever he feels like, for better or worse.
I had a chance to look into it, and as far as I can tell, Kuchera has been posting articles on the regular, so I'm guessing we haven't "heard from him" because he has not had a bad take in a while for people to get angry over, because lords knows, if a thread gets made about someone on here, it's usually to rag on them.
He wrote an article titled "the xbox backlash doesn't matter" defending the original stance of the Xbox One. Like all the content of the PA Report it was deleted since PA for some reason didn't even want to keep it up but you can still find the original links in the Old Site:tm:
Code:
https://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/used-games-twitter-complaints-and-sony-why-the-xbox-one-backlash-doesnt-matAnd it was not his only bad and questionable take, if we explore the old site thread about PA Report closing down anyone can find examples of Ben Kuchera being... a bit out of touch with the consumers in general.
I get where you are coming from, I just wouldn't advise pivoting to accusation of GG unless you genuinely feel the people posting this stuff are actual GG supporters. Using similar tactics as GG doesn't mean they are part of that bullshit movement. Based on my time here I don't think that's the case and I also think there are people who have legitimate gripes about Ben but can no longer find previous content to provide as evidence.
To be clear, I think it's entirely possible, even probable, that Ben is telling the truth here. If he is, he should get into specifics and clearly detail what stories were impeded by PA.
That's my take anyways.
I don't remember Kuchera ever having a credibility problem, I just vaguely remember him being an asshole. Then again, I haven't heard anything about him in years so maybe he has turned over a new leaf (though those tweets from freelancers seem to indicate otherwise).
I don't see any reason not to believe him about PA, but I also think he is being ridiculously overdramatic about the potential impact speaking out about it could bring.
I don't see any reason not to believe him about PA, but I also think he is being ridiculously overdramatic about the potential impact speaking out about it could bring.
I'd need to know what kind of stories they were killing to make any sort of judgment call on this.
I don't like Penny Arcade, and they were 100% in the wrong if they did give him crap about spending time with family, but given the kind of stuff that Ben writes I need more information. If it was some exposé on wrongdoing in the industry, or changing a game review cause the pubs were buying ads, then yeah I don't like that. If it was telling him no to some random clickbait then I don't see an issue.
I don't like Penny Arcade, and they were 100% in the wrong if they did give him crap about spending time with family, but given the kind of stuff that Ben writes I need more information. If it was some exposé on wrongdoing in the industry, or changing a game review cause the pubs were buying ads, then yeah I don't like that. If it was telling him no to some random clickbait then I don't see an issue.
Its almost like the posters here that have an issue with him from 10+ years ago did not keep an itemized list of things he did cause you know that would be actual gamergate behavior that your accusing users of. Dude has clearly purged stuff from years ago and has articles that no longer exist as the publication is gone. And the people that have remembered more specific details of sexist shit like the ps4 controller being like holding boobs would not be something gamergate would take issue with.
When people talk about GG shit in this thread, they're talking about shit like this. Implying that he's a liar just because he has takes people disagree with.
This feels like Kuchera trying to start shit in a fit to stay relevant. As a journalist, he's far outclassed by many, many others in his field, and the fact that he was even brought on to run a news section on Penny Arcade in the first place feels like a case of his just being in the right place at the right time, skillset unnecessary.
I'm not going to defend the PA guys. If he's got receipts, he should bring them, but his own history of gross behavior and incompetence makes his sudden accusation harder to swallow, even if it is true.
I'm not going to defend the PA guys. If he's got receipts, he should bring them, but his own history of gross behavior and incompetence makes his sudden accusation harder to swallow, even if it is true.
User Banned (1 Day): Inflammatory point of comparison
The same people who started GG ran a whole campaign of pretending to be black feminists on Twitter to generate outrage articles. Pretending to care about sexist bullshit because it allows them to score points against somebody they dislike is not beyond them.
I never said he is a liar tho? I literally said he is out of touch with consumers because he wrote stuff like this during the Xbox One backlash telling people that the noise they were making was for nothing:
And that is not even getting into his other colorful takes about the way consumers should react to stuff or how he asked for an outlet to fire a journalist over a mistake.
Please don't lump me with GG ever again.
The take is dumb, but not "bitch about him 10 years later" dumb.
Also, that thread you're referencing is not a good look for the opinions gamers hold. It even ends with people bitching about the incenstuous GAMING JOURNALISM ELITE because Jim Sterling defended Kuchera, and had to be closed because of it.
OP
OP
If you have an issue with someone but 10 years later literally no one can pinpoint what that issue was, do you think it's maybe time to drop it?
That's fair. The thing that is annoying me here though is if Gamergaters were posting here to discredit him wouldn't they actually have the "proof" for what ever slights he did? The fact that people can't remember the exact details tells me that they have not fixated on it but just keep the name in mind and attribute that they are not worth paying attention to.
Honestly, both can drag each other down in this situation and I'd be fine. I'm sure PA can't exactly end someone's career anymore, but like, it's so weird to even hear about Penny Arcade as a relevant thing in 2021. I have no fondness for Ben whatsoever and honestly his handling of freelancers reeks of the pot calling the kettle black.
I think people forget but Jim Sterling also had some questionable moments in the past like when he was very vocal that DMC fans should take a seat and eat the bowl of DmC that Capcom was offering.
I dont have an issue with him, as per my earlier post I had a slight annoyance that was actually Arthur Giles as apparently his take on Simcity was close to Bens take on the Xbox to make me misremember a situation I had not though about in years. The only ones I have shat on in this topic is penny arcade.
I think the level of vitriol for Ben seems disproportionate with what people have brought up about him. Like, really bad takes, being a shitty editor and being a fucking edgelord 10 years ago, that it?
It's somewhat relevant to the thread topic because it was basically the catalyst for PA scrapping his column.
All of the subject matter that sparked this thread is old news.