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Bella Thorne accused of 'ruining' OnlyFans for sex workers after scamming customers (threadmarks)
- Thread starter Deleted member 52442
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Nobody is comparing anything to anything. Fact is, whether it's porn, movies, fine art, WTF ever, it ain't cool to steal content.
Sounds like maybe she hasn't changed much since she was younger...
Who's talking about stealing content? There are thousands of free sex sites, pics videos etc in the internet which are not stolen.
So you only play f2p games? There isnt a specific game you like that you buy?
Many of those hubs sites are stolen content and of questionable sources. One of the best ways to avoid supporting exploitative practices is to pay the actor directly.
That's just not true. Rating systems have worked well on certain cam sites. Chaturbate has a rating system, and the good performers get good ratings. The trouble is, the performer can turn the rating off, thus making it useless.
The thing that people do not understand is that it is not always the sex workers doing the scamming. I have researched and written so much on this subject. It fascinates me. Are you aware of Colombia and cam warehouses? Go on any cam site, and you will soon notice that there are A LOT of Colombians. Far more than any other nationality. This is because Colombia has an industry of agencies and warehouses filled with computers and cameras to go on onlyfans and cam sites to scam. They will have the performer in front of the camera (who often cannot speak English) and a man behind the computer who can speak English pretending to be the woman. They use this to catch whales and scam as much as they possibly can. This is the nature of this industry. There are many, MANY examples I can use of this type of thing happening.
How common do you think scamming is in the industry? I am not attacking sex workers who are legit. I feel for them being painted with the scam brush. But those legit performers are rare. They just are.
Even the legit performers do some morally suspect things. I remember seeing a rather strange man on twitter following a popular adult performer. He was obsessed with her and she gave him a lot of attention. I could see from her manyvids profile how much he tipped her. It was a lot. Then I looked through his twitter and could see that he was having a very hard time in life. He had cancer, his wife left him and he was living in pain. Yet this performer was happy to take rather large amounts of money from this very ill man. This is the industry. A whale is a whale and not a human being. This is another thing that is commonplace. I can DM you sources for this example if you want. I don't want to out her on here. She is legit but this is very morally suspect.
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I don't need to pay for sex. It's free. Games are not and it's a hobby I have.
What if you want a particular person's content? And something that is of high quality and custom made for your interests? Lots of "free content" on sites like Pornhub are of low quality and from questionable sources.
Nobody talking about sex. This us porn we're taking about, not prostitution.
Seems like no matter the platform, if you bring in enough money and attention to it, the owners bend the rules around the moneymakers
And then they go, "Haha, yes, you're the 100th caller today disputing that charge."
that's fine. you dont have to. but dont judge or criticize others if they want to. And dont criticize people on onlyfans trying to make a buck. and don't think its okay to just watch porn or look at nudes at "free sites".
Porn is made primarily for sexual stimulation. Call it performance, art or whatever you want.
Then clearly you are not the market for this. But they are plenty of people who will and without it we wouldn't have porn.
Oh, we'd still have porn. Some of the best stuff is done by amateurs who aren't even looking to get paid.
I'm not familiar with the platform but apparently you can also chat with these girls and form "relationships" so it's more personal. You don't get that type of interaction from watching free porn.
There's a lot of lonely dudes out there with no social skills or experience with women so this is the next best thing to them.
Fucking infuriating all the people treating porn piracy as the only sane option here. I accept how common it is but nobody should be proud of it, especially not shame others who are funding the content.
You can, but it will cost you many thousands of $. It's a morally grey area, imo.
OP
OP
This isn't 100% true, plenty of people upload themselves for free.
For me there is a difference between being scammed and entering into an agreement with someone. Sugar daddies and whales know what they are getting into.
Someone being scammed doesn't.
Like a couple people have said this probably more a response to bank charges backs than any user. A lot of charge backs is a good way to flag an account for suspicious activity which would require a conversation with the bank to ensure your company is not doing shady financial shit. This was going happen eventually. Thorn just set the U.S.S OnlyFans to max warp to the baita switchera part of space
They are offering a service that people demand. Which can help people with poor social skills? People know what they are getting into with sugar dating that's not a scam.
I can see that. I do think it is morally suspect. Like, in the UK where I am, a casino is required to check the source of funds and the mental wellbeing of the customer. They could be liable to lose their license if they do not do these things. If the gambling industry is required to take care of customers wellbeing, why shouldn't the adult industry?
I disagree for the reasons above.
Also, you can't seriously believe it is good for social skills to pay an adult performer to talk to you online? Not only is that bit good for social skills, but it is actually bad, and will cause serious issues.
I don't see how the OF reaction to the scam prevents it from happening again. It seems like they fucked over their creators by preventing them from offering higher value events. Maybe they want to keep popular people away by limiting the amount of money you can make? Who knows.
I have to say, I don't agree with the tweets from the OP. Anyone, popular or not, should have the right to be on the platform and I wouldn't see them "taking money away from sex workers" just because they attract more people. Running a scam though, that's shitty, even more comming from someone who doesn't even need the money.
I have to say, I don't agree with the tweets from the OP. Anyone, popular or not, should have the right to be on the platform and I wouldn't see them "taking money away from sex workers" just because they attract more people. Running a scam though, that's shitty, even more comming from someone who doesn't even need the money.
So only fans is basically nude or semi nude photography, right? How is that not art?
That's a very large brush you're tarnishing people with based on a "probably". The people "framing" this as supporting sex workers still have a completely valid opinion on it being that, myself included. Please don't just lump us all under the same umbrella.
Yeah, and it absolutely sucks. There definitely are these sorts out there who feel the transaction entitles them to even more and can lead to abusive behaviour or a warped perspective on things. Of course it exists, and it's a real shame.
I don't think the same people would be arguing for this if I changed it to a game publisher preying on people with microtransactions. And that happens. Game publishers have been known to fish for whales.
I think the issue here is people feel uncomfortable 'punching down' on sex workers. Sex workers are the victims of an insane amount of abuse online. It is constant and unwarranted abuse. This is just a fact. But, you can be a victim and still indulge in morally suspect practices. This is the nature of this industry. Sex workers do participate in morally grey areas that often do hurt vulnerable people. This is a big part of the adult industry and always has been. It's not necessarily illegal, but it is morally not okay with me. That's not to say the customers do not participate is scummy things too. They do. The customers are not victims here. It's a shady industry and absolutely nobody would accept the same shaddiness in any other industry.
If people care about sex work then stop trivialising the real issues of scamming and morally grey areas in the industry. There is no point putting your head in the sand and pretending it is not an extremely common occurrence. That is bad for legit sex workers.
If we were to address anything related to this, the indiscretions of sex workers would be the last on my list.
So, I just found out the tip limit doesnt apply to live streams. Probably not intentional as streams are kind of an afterthought for the site. So people can still get around that. I think this lends credence to the "tips were already fucked and they just blamed Bella for them cleaning house". If you hear about scams moving onto streams, they might crack down on that too.
I think the difference here is that Ruby Rose didn't charge people $200 for "nudes," that didn't turn out to be nudes at all, and so her subs hit onlyfans with a shit ton of chargebacks, thus causing OnlyFans to overreact and change how content creators earn money, while still taking that sweet 20% cut from what they do earn.
For some content creators, the sometimes very generous tips they receive make up for the 20% loss in the content they work hard to create. Like I said in the other thread, one of the people I know who produced content on OnlyFans received an unexpected $300 tip for a video she charged $50 for. She didn't ask for it, or "scammed" for it, her fan just wanted to tip her big. She was so grateful, because she really needed that extra cash, and it helped her so much. With these new restrictions in place, she's now limited to receiving a max $100 tip, that OnlyFans takes $20 from, and if you're struggling to make ends meet, believe me, that $20 stings.
Putting a cap on tips is what's really going to hurt smaller content creators going forward. Especially smaller content creators that were fortunate enough to have some generous subscribers that paid a little extra, and sometimes, a lot extra.
For a lot of people struggling during this pandemic, OnlyFans has been a pretty lucrative way for them to make up for loss of income in their 9-5 job. The people shaking their heads in confusion at not understanding the concept of OnlyFans, or people willing to pay for porn confuse me.
Would you rather have people have their nudes or sex tapes leaked by a vindictive ex to free sites? Would you rather have them not get paid for producing adult content that people enjoy and want to see? Not everyone that pays for porn, or supports sex workers are basement dwelling "losers" that can't get laid. Many of them just enjoy adult entertainment, and instead of pirating it, are willing to pay for it. I think that's awesome. Like I said in the other thread, these are human beings. Yes, they have sex on camera, or pose for nude or erotic photo sets, but they're still people. And in our current climate, people are finding value in escaping from the world through various forms of entertainment, including porn, and some have the luxury of being able to spend on said entertainment, thus supporting the content creators they're getting off to instead of pirating it. There's nothing to shake your head in disbelief about.
For a lot of women and men in the "amateur" or "direct to consumer" adult entertainment industry, making money by selling nudes/sex videos that could possibly be leaked or spread for free makes sense to them. At least they're in control of what and how their content is distributed, and it's all consensual on their part. No theft, no spiteful exes trying to damage their reputation and create a narrative. Just people taking control of their sexuality and making a profit from it.
The lack of empathy and compassion for sex workers adversely affected by OnlyFan's stupid decision is really sad to see. As is the weird shaming of people that pay for adult entertainment. Because it's just so cool to pirate videos from hub sites, where it's unclear exactly how consensual the release of those free videos really is, or the main porn production houses that often treat their performers to unfair compensation for the content they produce, amiright? High five! Bro fist! /s
I guess something about women making money off of men willing to pay for the content they produce rubs some people the wrong way for some reason...
Supporting sex workers needs to stop being seen as some kind of negative or being "scammed," and sex work isn't something that should be looked down upon or frowned upon. It's amazing to me that on a forum full of "enlightened men and women of science," there's a very old fashioned and puritanical view of sex and women here. And a not so subtle dose of misogyny.
(This isn't directed at you, by the way. the first few paragraphs were in response to the article you linked to, and then i just went off on a tangent, sorry)
These people tend to lock some of their videos behind paywalls, because yes, they're doing this for a living too. And they are vastly outnumbered by the folks illegally uploading other people's content on porntube sites.
Seriously, all of you who only jack off to "free" porn either have super vanilla interests, or you've actually been watching a lot of pirated porn and either don't realize it, or don't care. And more importantly, you have no right to criticize folks who pay for their porn - especially if they primarily pay for content made by amateur and/or self-employed stars. Because this is akin to someone who either only plays AAA games, or pirates most of their games, shitting on folks who primarily pay for and play indie games.
Don't take my word for it, though. Try actually reading the article in the OP, and if you're still not convinced, do some research into how the porntube sites have made this industry a living hell for anyone their parent company Mindgeek doesn't employ via one of the many professional porn studios they've also bought out. (Not to mention tolerating and enabling everything from revenge porn to sex trafficking. Seriously, go look up the Girls Do Porn scandal, on the off chance you weren't aware of Pornhub and Mindgeek's role in that shitshow.)
Thank you for writing this (not just the quoted section but all of it, I just wanted to highlight this part in particular).
I was going back and forth on a reply earlier today after the baffling derail of "who pays for porn lol".
My problem with all of this is that you are conflating corporations with individuals. The scale of "responsibility" between the two is the size of the Pacific Ocean.
I am just feel there's a weird vibe with pushing for the 'victims of sexworkers' in a post about how once again the forces that be screw them. The reason the industry can be shady is again, the grey area. But ultimately "we" created the grey area, if it was accepted as a legit industry as lets day plumbing sure, you would have some scammers (same with plumbers) but the downsides would be too great (loss of license, easier for cops to prosecute for fraud since everyone is more willing to talk since its 100% legal, etc).
Look at the decriminalization of recreational drugs as an example.
Mindgeek, aka the reason OnlyFans has skyrocketed in popularity with self-employed sex workers.
If you seriously think going after individuals scammers on onlyfans is more important than going after Mindgeek, your priorities are completely out of whack.
Thank you so much!
And yeah, the "who pays for porn, hyuk hyuk" derail always irks me whenever I see. As I mentioned in some other thread where a similar sentiment was expressed, I used to review porn professionally way back in the day, and I met and befriended a few adult entertainers. They're just people like anyone else, and they're trying to pay their bills like anyone else. Pirating their content is hurting them even more than what many adult film companies have been. It's really disappointing seeing some people gleefully boasting about how they clearly don't pay for porn, and more than likely view sex workers as less than, so who cares if they get fucked over by something like what OnlyFans has pulled? It's just porn, right? Fuck empathy, right? Hi five! >:(