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Beijing tightens grip over coronavirus' origin
- Thread starter gutter_trash
- Start date
- COVID
User banned (2 weeks): Conspiracy theories; misinformation
Them trying to obfuscate the source will lend credence to the hypothesis that it escaped from a virology lab, like SARS did 10 years ago.
The issue is that the wildlife trade is worth over a hundred billion yuan. The industry lobbied the government after the SARS outbreak ended and the industry has continued to grow.
This is not like the illegal drug trade. This industry is above board and mostly operates in the open.
I think hoping the Chinese government will listen to it's citizens is naive. I hope they do, but I'm not expecting it. International pressure is needed or this will happen again.
It ignores that we have the likely origin: bats. We know corona-viruses of this type are coming from bats. Even with full access, we will never know the intermediary animal. Like with SARS, there is an educated guess possible.
What the fuck man, "wet market" is the word for "fresh produce markets". You mean people in China should not be allowed to buy fresh produce anymore?
That's the most likely cause, mostly based on SARS which started the same way. I don't think they're 100% sure on this.
There may have been an intermediate host(pangolin?) but it's all guesswork at this point.
If China clamps down we will never know anything for certain.
People keep mentioning the wet market but I don't think that's the 100% definate starting place either.
You say that it's in their interest to prevent, but they didn't take the steps after SARS in 2002 (which killed 774 people worldwide) to curb the wildlife market industry. They did ban wildlife farming after they found out about civet cats in Foshan, but a few months later, made 54 wildlife animals legal to farm again. So the industry skyrocketed in billions of profits and so lobbying industry was born and pressured Chinese government to support their interests. They made endangered animals like pangolins legal, and used false health claims of having tonic properties to continue farming. Rich chinese made the gov't to support their diet over safety of rest of people. They are bound to make the same mistakes if they don't learn the origin and ban wildlife trade. If they ban research on the origins, the mistakes will repeat again and the ban on wildlife farming won't be permanent.
There are four kinds of coronavirus, two kinds in bats and two kinds in birds. SARS-COV-2 like SARS belongs to one of the bat-kinds. That can be seen genetically. The intermediate is still unknown indeed, but that can never be found out. There are so many different kinds of animals in that market that investigation cannot help there either. We were never sure about the intermediate for original SARS either.
Wow, CCP defender much, buddy? You're saying that the lack of transparency (and a penchant for hiding ugly truths) which is the exact reason we're all in this mess today, isn't a big problem?
If the CCP officials hadn't tried to suppress the initial reports of the virus, the world could have avoided (or atleast been prepared for) this disaster. And now they're doing exactly the same thing again.
Defending an authoritarian govt is a bad hill to die on, friend.
China's research probably showed that it originated in China instead of Europe or the US like they have been saying. Burn all the evidence. Keep everyone who lives in China in line and move on like it's another day. China will probably do some light regulations then backpedal later like they did with SARS.
How about we find out how this virus was exactly trasmitted to humans so we can prevent the next one instead of locking down the planet for another year?!
What are YOU even saying?
Smh...
They'll be a brief period of regulations until this blows over and they'll loosen them. Happened before and it'll happen again. This will happen all over again. The Chinese government is bought by the exotic meat trade.
Actually it is worse because your're actually able to voice that concern publicly, unlike under their authoritarian regime.
Bruh, WHO told the world about human to human transmission mid January. What exactly have our government done between that and the sudden complete shutdown of the economy 2 months later?
Authoritarianism is bad.
China being deceitful should not have excused the abysmal response of other countries. China's going to lie because their government wants to save face and to look like they know what they're doing. Other countries should have begun stockpiling supplies mid January at the latest when there's ample stories and evidence that the situation was not under control. Taiwan and SKorea were able to handle it properly because they understood this.
Divesting and isolating from China is not going to happen as long as people prioritizes profit over human rights. They didn't do it for the concentration camps, they didn't do it for Tiannamen Square and they won't do it for this.
The lack of transparency reminds me a lot of (HBO's) Chernobyl.
Sick of seeing this response when discussing wet markets in China. The poster is quite clearly not saying that either.
Yeah in a bubble that's what a wet market is. In China it often means a place where the huge and legal wildlife industry sells its produce. It's a huge problem and should have been dealt with adequately after SARS and it wasn't and here we are.
Dunno about your govt, but the Indian govt took a number of steps. As much as I despise the fascists in power in India, I have to admit that the government's response to the virus has been better than many developed countries. Screening of arrivals started almost immediately at international airports. All airports were shut down a few weeks later, and a nationwide lockdown was initiated when the number of confirmed cases were still low.
They did fail at procuring enough masks, PPE kits and testing kits, and the lack of planning regarding lockdown resulted in untold misery for countless migrant labourers in India. That said, it's still incredibly disingenuous to engage in this false equivalence between other nations and the actions of the CCP.
China was the source. Swift action could have controlled the outbreak and prevented it from spreading beyond the Chinese borders. Even a delayed spread would have given the rest of the world more time to learn about the virus, and start working on vaccines and treatments.
Except, the information was buried, doctors who reported on it were harassed and threatened, and the Chinese government (along with WHO) kept insisting that there was no need to cancel flights coming from China, and that the whole thing was an overreaction.
This govt has screwed the Uighurs, the Chinese people, and now the rest of the world. Sure, other governments are responsible as well, but whataboutery cannot be used as means to defend the CCP here.
Once this is over the entire world is going to be putting pressure on China to tell us how they'll prevent this from happening again, and this is already their stance:
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there will be a moment in the future where a future strain will prop up, say decades
but if we don't even clamp down on the source of SARS and COVID, there will be a stronger strain from a similar origin because we are not allowed to research the origin and stop that industry responsible for it repeating
but if we don't even clamp down on the source of SARS and COVID, there will be a stronger strain from a similar origin because we are not allowed to research the origin and stop that industry responsible for it repeating
So i guess the entire Europe and North America is run by dictator that has no human right or freedom of speech, because what have they done after being told that human tramission is so bad that 50 million people needs to be quarantined in January?
The issue this virus runs rampage is due to complacency. China values "stability" more, under estimate it and ignore the front line doctor. The entire world values economy more, under estimate it and ignore scientist and researcher.
Yeah it is. They literally silenced people who were outing it, thats a bit different than what was going on in the US. A bit more Orwellian.
As am I.
Disgusting rethoric just to save face. Plus why isnt anyone talking about the racism foreigners are facing in China? Gestapo esque shit is going on right now to non chinese people in china.
But wanting to talk about it makes one a potential racist?
Its bottom of the barrell shit.
China absolutely needs to be open about investigating this, but I don't think everyone jumping on the term "wet market" is really helping. I suspect a lot of people don't know what they actually are, and because of the demonisation of the term especially in American media see them as some of dark dingy dirty messy shit holes. Yeah there are certainly some like that I'm sure, but there are plenty like that in the West as well, they just don't have the name. Wet market just means perishable; so basically: fresh food market. You expect China to close down all fresh food markets?! Come on. They absolutely need to clean up illegal meat trading, but let's at least be more reasoned here
See:
youtu.be
See:
A real, not-clickbaity, average Chinese wet market
There's been a *lot* of nonsense going around online around Chinese wet markets these days, so we wanted to make a quick digression from our normal video and...
youtu.be
I agree that other nations need to force the CCP to start banning wild animal trade in the wet markets. And them blocking research into the origin is only going to make sure we have another major outbreak. This won't do any favors towards people's perception of China right now. :(
Seems people are being purposely obtuse or just arguing semantics.
When someone calls for a 'ban on wet markets', you all know full well that they mean 'a ban on markets that sell exotic animals'. If what you want is for people to stop calling them 'wet markets', then just go ahead and say that.
When someone calls for a 'ban on wet markets', you all know full well that they mean 'a ban on markets that sell exotic animals'. If what you want is for people to stop calling them 'wet markets', then just go ahead and say that.
Seems like you're the one that's concern trolling. What's your basis for accusing the OP of being racist? And please be specific.
You're right, history of any kind is pointless, there's nothing to learn from any of it, never look back. /s
Uh, no, not everybody knows. The distinction is important, because the claim that "wet markets are common in China and Chinese communities internationally" is a true one, while "exotic animal markets are common in China and Chinese communities internationally" is not.
Tbh there's no evidence China has ever cared how they're perceived outside their own borders. They know the West will still want cheap electronics, so who cares. And that's a massive issue as it enables them to act without any compuction for the world stage
You know it's all rich people in China who partake in wild animal and endangered species right? I mean the vast majority of people in China are against that, but just like it is in the US, the regular people have no control over the rich because the rich control the government.
If the difference matters to you, I just said the act of posting sensationalized articles (i.e. not actually newsworthy) condemning China for obfuscating the origins of the virus when they are clearly established in the scientific community at a time when an Asian woman in Brooklyn could get attacked with acid is clearly feeding into a harmful racist narrative. I never explicitly said he himself was racist, just that his actions were.
What's sensationalist about the article?
The Chinese government is imposing new restrictions on the publication of research related to the origins of the virus, and CNN is reporting on that fact. A Chinese researcher is also quoted as saying that these restrictions are new, and that,
I think this is worthy of reporting. The anonymous Chinese researcher who spoke to CNN obviously felt the same way.
Not feeding into racist narratives at a time when xenophobia is at an all-time high is obviously important, but this is clearly not an instance of that.
This is true, which is why people outside China are also justified in calling for the CCP to shut wildlife markets down. It's a bad look and a little suspect for first-worlders to criticize poor people for hygienic standards. But in this case, there's widespread agreement that it's mostly the rich Chinese folks who engage in these practices.
WHO telling people about human-to-human transmission in mid January? Straight up lie and I have the receipts right here.
Go gaslight another one.
WHO confirmed human transmission on Twitter on Jan 22nd. Yeah you got me there bro, I was off by a week...*rolls eyes*
I have no idea why peeps are defending the incompetency of our government, they literally did nothing for 2 months except calling it the flu, a hoax and that it'll disappear miraculously in April lol.
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Who's defending Trump? He's a moron and even more dangerous now, same for other world leaders like Bolsonaro.
You can roll your eyes all you want, the WHO fucked this up and there's no denying it. This isn't excusing the fact that the american or any other government fucked this up.
I'm getting a little concerned the rhetoric is starting to turn to be "this comes from China, they need to stop viruses in the future" which is true but misses the point somewhat. Rip China a new one, yep, they deserve it for a multitude of sins, but don't allow the rhetoric to fool you.
Noone knows where the next pandemic will originate; in all probability they will tend to originate from incredibly densely populated regions with large populations in poverty. That means China, but also sub-saharan Africa, India, Pakistan, larger swathes of SE Asia. Therefore rather than going "China sort this shit out!" and leaving it there, how about "China sort your shit out, oh and MY government get your fucking act together"
I'm certainly seeing it in the UK at the moment and it's really disheartening to see people blaming China for the effect it's having on the UK, when realistically the government here is largely to blame for how the thing has progressed. Defence against pandemics needs to be layered, and realistically atm your need to make sure your own country has it's act together first, as there's no realistic way of stopping all origins.
Noone knows where the next pandemic will originate; in all probability they will tend to originate from incredibly densely populated regions with large populations in poverty. That means China, but also sub-saharan Africa, India, Pakistan, larger swathes of SE Asia. Therefore rather than going "China sort this shit out!" and leaving it there, how about "China sort your shit out, oh and MY government get your fucking act together"
I'm certainly seeing it in the UK at the moment and it's really disheartening to see people blaming China for the effect it's having on the UK, when realistically the government here is largely to blame for how the thing has progressed. Defence against pandemics needs to be layered, and realistically atm your need to make sure your own country has it's act together first, as there's no realistic way of stopping all origins.
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Exactly.
Trump can be a moron simultaneously while Xi tries to sweep the evidence under the rug.
Trump is shit.
Xi is shit
*bonus edit: Bolsonaro is shit too
I don't think it's CCP apologia, but rather American-centrism. Americans, by and large, cannot conceive of a geopolitical conversation that doesn't revolve around them--even if it's to say "Hey, but my country's government/racism is shit, too!"
Is this not the second time in 20 years that a deadly coronavirus has originated from a Chinese market and spread worldwide?
It was actually confirmed two days prior by Chinese authorities on January 20th. Also in the article is mention of the first confirmed death.
So the day of the first confirmed case in the US, authorities knew:
- It was deadly enough to kill patients.
- Human to human transmission was occuring.
Whataboutisms with China are always weird because typically the only reason anyone is able to pull that card is because countries like the US have things like investigative journalism to sniff out the bullshit and post it on an uncensored internet. We have a terrible signal to noise ratio on a lot of things but when our government gets to gaslighting, we at least have the power to go "well that's bullshit and here's why". A whole lot of our dirty laundry is on display for everyone to cite and reference whenever the US comes up in conversation.
Whereas with China you have to wonder if you can trust really anything coming out of there or if you're truly getting the whole story. It's hard to go investigate anything and I feel like anything outside the official state stance is often either really vague or from dubious sources. Throw in most corporations reliance on the Chinese industrial and consumer base and suddenly there are a lot of people in the West who aren't exactly eager to call anything out.
I didn't say it didn't, I said be aware that focussing entirely on China is an incomplete way to prevent future pandemics. i jsut don't like the rhetoric which is, at least in my experience in the UK (obviously I don't know about other countries) becoming quite anti-China and not being self-reflective at all.
For example, other deadly viruses that could easily have spread: Marburg - first identified in Germany but likely from Uganda; Ebola - we all know about that one; Rabies - who knows, but still an issue in India/Africa (and given exposure to other pathogens in those regions, a large population, one mutation and...); HIV; MERS etc etc etc.
The things the Chinese government can get away with is insane.
Over 100.000 dead with casualties in most countries in the world and here they are trying to sweep it under the rug.
Those doctors that were "silenced", do we know what happened to them exactly?
Like the head start they gave the virus at the start of the outbreak wasn't enough.
Over 100.000 dead with casualties in most countries in the world and here they are trying to sweep it under the rug.
Those doctors that were "silenced", do we know what happened to them exactly?
Like the head start they gave the virus at the start of the outbreak wasn't enough.